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    Russian special military operation in Ukraine #17

    Arkanghelsk
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    Post  Arkanghelsk Wed Jun 01, 2022 6:31 pm

    Hole wrote:Despite all those C4ISR assets NATO has at best a blurry picture of that conflict. There are ECM systems and false targets (tanks and AD systems made of rubber) everywhere.
    The Russian Army is very good at this. They´re feeding the west with falsified or wrong information all the time.

    Russian special military operation in Ukraine #17 - Page 25 Fukman10
    Russian special military operation in Ukraine #17 - Page 25 Fulugp10
    Russian special military operation in Ukraine #17 - Page 25 Fululv10

    Yes Hole that is equally true

    Maskirovka has improved, whatever they are doing in Donbass worked

    I haven't seen the supposed buildup that ISW was on about since the claims of "phase 2" started

    When in Kiev they would show pictures of 40km columns and other Russian positions

    In donbass you don't see Russian positions

    - yeah they got some in Kharkov of the bridge crossing, but this was post fighting

    Ergo they haven't been able to pre emptively track Russian movements for a bit now

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    JohninMK
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    Post  JohninMK Wed Jun 01, 2022 6:34 pm

    SeigSoloyvov wrote:That could easily be fake, there is no way to confirm such a thing.

    Perhaps when posting things like this post with it said information is unconfirmed and can be false.

    Agreed, but the poster is a real western journalist.

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    SeigSoloyvov
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    Post  SeigSoloyvov Wed Jun 01, 2022 6:38 pm

    Arrow wrote:

    Russia has been testing the S-500 prototypes for many years. The S-500 is now a fully-fledged ABM system. One complex is already in service.

    According to whom?
    Arkanghelsk
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    Post  Arkanghelsk Wed Jun 01, 2022 6:40 pm

    https://www.google.com/amp/s/tass.com/defense/1348691/amp

    According to Tass 1 S500 regiment is active in Moscow

    And the 2nd is due to come online anytime now

    So basically 2 regiments are online

    But as pertains to Ukraine, s500 could be brought forward to hit LEO spy sats

    But I would bet more on Mig31D zooming with Vympel 30P6 ASAT missiles under in place of kinzhal to blast on prying eyes in the sky

    S500 is good for persistent coverage but Mig31D with Vympel missile would be good for example to protect the now Dead Moskva

    As soon as a sat is detected by Volga Radar, cue the Mig 31 for high altitude intercept of it

    Attach another flight of Mig 31 with r33 or R77 to intercept the global Hawk relaying the tactical info to onshore Ukrainian assets and a final Su34 wave to hit the onshore sites

    The first target in near peer battle are the sats and OTH radars , then the fun begins

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    caveat emptor
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    Post  caveat emptor Wed Jun 01, 2022 7:08 pm

    Brother Арха́нгельск is turning into new Суворов. Very Happy

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    Post  ArgentinaGuard Wed Jun 01, 2022 7:11 pm

    Germany is a country that should cease to exist in the future. Separate them into parts. Bavaria on one side, Prussia on the other (Let them go back to the 16th century where they did less damage. They wrote philosophy and decent poetry)

    Russia should finance separatism, the same as the fiction of the United Kingdom. The Irish and Scots are different peoples from the Anglo-Saxons.

    Furthermore, Germany represents rotten and decadent Europe with its "human rights" and female empowerment. It is partly the responsibility of the heroic Russia, because they annihilated the last true Germans in 1945. Today they are whores, women, friends of Jews, gays. That is why Muslims do not adapt and they have good reasons. A Muslim cannot live in a civilization that has denied God. .


    Last edited by ArgentinaGuard on Wed Jun 01, 2022 7:25 pm; edited 2 times in total

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    Isos
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    Post  Isos Wed Jun 01, 2022 7:16 pm

    First footage of air to air missiles launched in Ukraine.


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    Post  ludovicense Wed Jun 01, 2022 7:24 pm

    AZ OSINT
    @AZmilitary1
    Today, Russia occupies about 24% of the territory of the former Ukraine — about 144 thousand square kilometers. You can clearly understand the scale by comparing the size of the occupied territories with the size of the territories of European states.


    https://twitter.com/AZmilitary1/status/1532015985640841220

    ...and increases day by day....

    Every occupied centimeter will never return to Ukraine. It's lost forever.

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    Post  ludovicense Wed Jun 01, 2022 7:46 pm


    Jack Detsch
    @JackDetsch
    NEW: President Biden's new $700 million military aid package for Ukraine, per DoD policy chief

    • 4 HIMARS
    • Guided munitions that range 70km
    • 1,000 additional Javelins
    • 6,000 anti-armor weapons
    • 15,000 155mm shells
    • 4 Mi-17 helicopters
    • Tactical vehicles


    A lot of expectation around the American HLRS, mainly due to the fear of attack on Russian cities, which is the only plausible discussion in this case, in my opinion.
    Tactically this pack of weapons will not make the slightest difference on the battlefield, because most of these weapons do not reach the front line as they are attacked in transport. Nevertheless it is good for the companies that sell them.

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    Podlodka77
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    Post  Podlodka77 Wed Jun 01, 2022 7:49 pm

    SeigSoloyvov wrote:
    JohninMK wrote:
    SeigSoloyvov wrote:S500s haven't even been produced yet

    Nor are the other weapons you claimed in production, You have a very bad habit of lying Ark.

    Pre production S-500 are integrated into the Moscow ABM network and I read over the past couple of weeks that it is now in full production.

    Mind you there isn't much use for it yet. Thankfully.

    You do know what pre-production means right? it means prototype status etc after the design phase is done but then they have to go about building it, making sure it works.

    So no not in production at best prototype stage


    Really ?

    MOSCOW, May 18. /TASS/. The latest S-500 anti-aircraft missile system has begun arriving for Russian troops, Deputy Prime Minister Yury Borisov said during the government’s New Horizons educational marathon on Wednesday.

    "Today the troops have already begun receiving the systems that actually combine the functions of air and anti-missile defenses and these are S-500 weapons," Borisov said.



    https://tass.com/defense/1452551

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    Odin of Ossetia
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    Post  Odin of Ossetia Wed Jun 01, 2022 7:55 pm

    PapaDragon wrote:
    Podlodka77 wrote:...Everything on the other side of the Dnieper River is not worth the effort..

    And get another West Germany for their troubles?

    This would be the dumbest outcome imaginable


    They should annex everything they can and as for the rest label the area as something not Ukraine (call it ''Special Supervision Zone #1'' or something like that) keep planes and drones in the air 24/7 Gaza-style and regularly bomb any military target that pops up

    If there are no military targets bomb military looking targets

    If there are no military looking targets blow up some military age Ukrops and call them military targets

    Pace must be kept at all times


    If anyone tries to build any industrial facility more complex than grain silo blow it up and kill anyone building it

    They should have no economy more complex than subsistence farming  


    Do it right this time and don't repeat mistakes of USSR




    Ukrainians themselves unleashed in the past far worse treatment on the ethnic Poles, than what you are suggesting.


    http://asaland.proboards.com/thread/460/land-zamosc-zamojszczyzna-1942-1944

    http://michalw.narod.ru/index-Truth.html



    Currently Poland is a tributary state for them.





    Last edited by Odin of Ossetia on Wed Jun 01, 2022 8:04 pm; edited 1 time in total
    Arkanghelsk
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    Post  Arkanghelsk Wed Jun 01, 2022 7:59 pm

    ludovicense wrote:
    Jack Detsch
    @JackDetsch
    NEW: President Biden's new $700 million military aid package for Ukraine, per DoD policy chief

    • 4 HIMARS
    • Guided munitions that range 70km
    • 1,000 additional Javelins
    • 6,000 anti-armor weapons
    • 15,000 155mm shells
    • 4 Mi-17 helicopters
    • Tactical vehicles


    A lot of expectation around the American HLRS, mainly due to the fear of attack on Russian cities, which is the only plausible discussion in this case, in my opinion.
    Tactically this pack of weapons will not make the slightest difference on the battlefield, because most of these weapons do not reach the front line as they are attacked in transport. Nevertheless it is good for the companies that sell them.

    I agree , the 4 Himars could come with ATACMS but they won't do anything Tochka could not

    1000 javelins? No difference from Stugna

    6000 anti armor weapons? Bunch of glorified RPG

    15,000 155mm shells? Well they need it after kalibr wiped out the MIC

    4 Mi17? Don't make me laugh

    And ammo well no shit!!!

    In the end, these weapons supplies are not so called "game changing"

    But just a proof of evidence that VSU domestic MIC was destroyed in phase 1 and 2

    The fact they must be supplied is due to eviscerated of the Soviet Complex they owned

    But that Putin and MOD helped to decommunize our Banderite friends who were eager to spread the glory of OUN

    So they have it, decommunization, and now denazification

    You must remember Ukraine had facilities for production and repair of Stugna, Mi17, Mig29, Su27, bm27, akatsiya, Gvozdika, even their own 203mm guns

    But kalibr came with iskander... and well - the rest is history as they say

    Cue the emptying of western militaries

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    nomadski
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    Post  nomadski Wed Jun 01, 2022 8:00 pm

    Anxiety ? Anxiety about American satellite info for Ukraine ? Of course they will look and chatter . Are they supposed not to ? They are the enemy ! So they will print the photos into " porn" pin up posters in their bedrooms , and use it as a masturbation aid ? The devil's that they are ? No problems with that . But if they get too excited and go f****ing about the neighbourhood , then they get a Boot up their assets .

    So they were told , the point of decision making , will be hit , where an attack comes from . So if the NAZI leadership , used missiles to hit Russia or troops , and this these attacks are significant , then Russia can hit them . And see if this was enough . And if not , then hit a decision making centre , say in Europe , for transport of lethal aid . And see if this was enough . And if not , then eeeeehhhhhhaaaaaah ! As the Americans say , the statue of liberty may need a face lift ! The old hag .


    BTW , the Iranian response to the Americans killing of General Soleymani , was pathetic and inadequate , since Iran did not have devices for escalation , including nukes . Russia is different . The consequences of a lack of  timely and adequate response , was further attacks , against installations and scientists , in Iranian mainland .


    Significance in this case can be understood as either a Russian defeat ( total of major withdrawal from Ukraine ) , or a very costly war leading to social and political collapse , albeit with some pockets of territory under Russian control .


    Last edited by nomadski on Wed Jun 01, 2022 8:05 pm; edited 1 time in total

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    Post  ludovicense Wed Jun 01, 2022 8:01 pm

    How difficult is the life ( ? ) of Ukrainian soldiers...

    https://twitter.com/TriTro29/status/1532053770774925312

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    JohninMK
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    Post  JohninMK Wed Jun 01, 2022 8:06 pm

    Arkanghelsk wrote:
    4 Mi17? Don't make me laugh


    Actually one of the items that should make it into Ukraine. These are some of the bath of 16? Mi-17 that were bought for Afghanistan. Some already delivered.

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    Post  Sujoy Wed Jun 01, 2022 8:07 pm

    IRIS-T will be neutralized by Russian ground based EW systems.
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    Post  sepheronx Wed Jun 01, 2022 8:07 pm

    Sujoy wrote:IRIS-T will be neutralized by Russian ground based EW systems.

    If it actually makes it to Ukraine, I dont think it will really last and get hit by a drone, cruise missile or artillery shell.
    Arkanghelsk
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    Post  Arkanghelsk Wed Jun 01, 2022 8:09 pm

    https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.cnn.com/cnn/2022/05/23/politics/satellite-images-grain-crimea/index.html

    It seems Maxar is focused on grain shipments

    Seems this is a nerve of the western economy they don't want to hit

    I believe that by winter, the price for a loaf of bread will be something which for the west is unexperienced in centuries

    I expect the price of bread in Europe to cost more than 5 euros per loaf by winter time

    Forget about gas, they understand perfectly that bread, pastas, Rices and other oats will cost as much as an appetizer in a clique restaurant

    That's why Maxar is over Crimea and not donbass


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    Post  Sprut-B Wed Jun 01, 2022 8:14 pm

    GarryB wrote:The advantage of TOS-2 is that it is new and all its electronics and equipment will be new... and its extra range means it can fire from a safer distance from the target, but also being truck based it will be more mobile and faster on roads and will be less of a problem in terms of maintenance and operational costs.

    It likely has a dedicated drone system to find targets and monitor results of attacks which they are likely keen to test in a real conflict.

    Unfortunately the range is still quite short to safely operate from a truck cabin. Maximum firing range should have been increased to at least 12-15 km otherwise stick with a MBT chassis preferably Armata platform. I do like the futuristic design of TOS-2 Tosochka. This MLRS complex is fully automated & with its transloader robotic arm on the side it looks something out of the Warhammer-4k universe.

    I think Tornado-G should have some armour to protect its crew from counter battery fire. Of course it's more mobile than a self-propelled howitzer like Mista-S but it makes no sense to not have any kind of armour to protect the crew from explosions & shrapnel.

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    Post  mnztr Wed Jun 01, 2022 8:30 pm

    ludovicense wrote:
    Jack Detsch
    @JackDetsch
    NEW: President Biden's new $700 million military aid package for Ukraine, per DoD policy chief

    • 4 HIMARS

    All this stink over 4 HIMARS? Unless they use tactical nukes this will have zero impact. Even with 80KM range they will be hunted down by aviaton or other missiles.

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    Post  nomadski Wed Jun 01, 2022 8:34 pm

    Short range Rocket artillery , may have far less error , small CEP , allowing destruction of bunker . Fired more directly . Ukrainians may have far fewer of these at such ranges , so assuming equal losses , then they loose overall . A shovel fitted to these , to allow digging a sand bar and some SHORAD , to take out drones , will be good .



    Edit : May be good idea to bring in Anti - Aircraft guns with 60 mm and above calibre that have frag warhead and proximity fuse , to use , more in direct fire role against bunker and trench etc . Like Germans did with their 88mms Anti- Aircraft gun , used in Anti - Tank role in ww2 . If ammunition is spare? Range 8-9 km , beyond Javelin .



    Last edited by nomadski on Wed Jun 01, 2022 10:14 pm; edited 1 time in total
    Arkanghelsk
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    Post  Arkanghelsk Wed Jun 01, 2022 8:47 pm

    Svyatogorsk has been captured, slavyansk is but next door to Svyatogorsk

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    Post  lyle6 Wed Jun 01, 2022 8:47 pm

    ludovicense wrote:
    Jack Detsch
    @JackDetsch
    NEW: President Biden's new $700 million military aid package for Ukraine, per DoD policy chief

    • 4 HIMARS
    • Guided munitions that range 70km
    • 1,000 additional Javelins
    • 6,000 anti-armor weapons
    • 15,000 155mm shells
    • 4 Mi-17 helicopters
    • Tactical vehicles


    A lot of expectation around the American HLRS, mainly due to the fear of attack on Russian cities, which is the only plausible discussion in this case, in my opinion.
    Tactically this pack of weapons will not make the slightest difference on the battlefield, because most of these weapons do not reach the front line as they are attacked in transport. Nevertheless it is good for the companies that sell them.
    Drip feed numbers, even discounting that the most of it would probably never reach the frontlines. For example, 15k shells is a joke; the Russians can do up to 1,000 fire missions on a particularly busy day. Let's be extremely charitable and say that a battery shoots but once for each mission. That's 6,000 shells in just one day alone! It would take the Russians just 2 and a half days to burn through that "aid" - and that's with the most pessimistic assumption of one shell per tube per mission!

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    Post  ArgentinaGuard Wed Jun 01, 2022 9:07 pm

    lyle6 wrote:
    ludovicense wrote:
    Jack Detsch
    @JackDetsch
    NEW: President Biden's new $700 million military aid package for Ukraine, per DoD policy chief

    • 4 HIMARS
    • Guided munitions that range 70km
    • 1,000 additional Javelins
    • 6,000 anti-armor weapons
    • 15,000 155mm shells
    • 4 Mi-17 helicopters
    • Tactical vehicles


    A lot of expectation around the American HLRS, mainly due to the fear of attack on Russian cities, which is the only plausible discussion in this case, in my opinion.
    Tactically this pack of weapons will not make the slightest difference on the battlefield, because most of these weapons do not reach the front line as they are attacked in transport. Nevertheless it is good for the companies that sell them.
    Drip feed numbers, even discounting that the most of it would probably never reach the frontlines. For example, 15k shells is a joke; the Russians can do up to 1,000 fire missions on a particularly busy day. Let's be extremely charitable and say that a battery shoots but once for each mission. That's 6,000 shells in just one day alone! It would take the Russians just 2 and a half days to burn through that "aid" - and that's with the most pessimistic assumption of one shell per tube per mission!



    It's ridiculous, clearly.
    They are numbers that cover up other larger numbers.
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    Post  limb Wed Jun 01, 2022 9:08 pm

    ArgentinaGuard wrote:Germany is a country that should cease to exist in the future. Separate them into parts. Bavaria on one side, Prussia on the other (Let them go back to the 16th century where they did less damage. They wrote philosophy and decent poetry)

    Russia should finance separatism, the same as the fiction of the United Kingdom. The Irish and Scots are different peoples from the Anglo-Saxons.

    Furthermore, Germany represents rotten and decadent Europe with its "human rights" and female empowerment. It is partly the responsibility of the heroic Russia, because they annihilated the last true Germans in 1945. Today they are whores, women, friends of Jews, gays. That is why Muslims do not adapt and they have good reasons. A Muslim cannot live in a civilization that has denied God. .

    Germany is a good bulwark to anglo and french influence, How about separate france? France is no different for Muscovy. It should be called Parisia(sacrasm). Souther france can become occitania.

    How about Poland loses Silesia and Kazsubia too while we're at it, and the kaszubs and silesians are taught that theyre completely different from Warszawians? The butthurt belt needs a taste of its own medicine.

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