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and How's Kherson front so far ? apparently news are slow from there nowadays, all eyes are seem to be headed to Kharkov and Eastern front.
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Russian special military operation in Ukraine #15
Stealthflanker- Posts : 1415
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- Post n°776
Re: Russian special military operation in Ukraine #15
Stealthflanker Thu May 12, 2022 8:55 pm
nomadski
nomadski- Posts : 2809
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Two points :
( 1 ) On terrain full of Rivers , Bridges for River crossings , may no longer be viable option . Need Amphibian vehicles , or convert Tanks to Boat , for River crossings .
( 2 ) To stop the enemy using captured or abandoned vehicles , supply demolition charge to crew . Or alternatively attach GPS tracker , for homing Iskander !
https://www.iwm.org.uk/history/the-funny-tanks-of-d-day
flamming_python- Posts : 9057
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- Post n°778
Re: Russian special military operation in Ukraine #15
flamming_python Thu May 12, 2022 9:26 pm
limb wrote:caveat emptor wrote:I wonder why they never tried big attack in the south? West of Novoselka amd east of Gulyaipole. Terrain there heavily favours Russians, being mostly flat and barren. No major cities as well.
I keep asking the same thing. Multipronged attacks are essential to encircle enemy forces and cut off supply lines, yet there has been 0 advance. This is why I view the Russians as incompetent. Not because of lack of advances in the Donbass, but lack of multipronged attacks in the south.
Regarding the pontoon bridge vehicle massacre, it's still up in the air. Despite the nonsensical nature of those vehicles destruction, you can clearly see an O marking on one of the BMPs no matter(on top for aircraft to see it) how much pei here pretend it's not there. You can see a destroyed BMP-3. Now AFAIK the O grouping is the most competent, with more access to thermals and drones, and they specialize in special forces recon and anti saboteur opérations, not large scale armor attacks, so it doesn't make sense why they would get bogged down with cold war vehicles. Maybe the vehicles were from both sides.
Also, it seems like Ukraine still has 3+ operational captured T-80BVMs as shown in their may 9 parade mocking Russia. This lends credence to large amounts of Russian vehicles being captured , especially up in the north where the Arctic brigade operating the T-80BVMs was
We know a lot of Russian tanks were abandoned during the initial advance. That's mostly when/where they were captured. Still, 3 BVMs is not a lot. They'll have some Us too, T-72B3s and whatever else - but it's peanuts. Most of that stuff was probably destroyed by now.
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sepheronx- Posts : 8558
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I'm noticing a trend on this forums. Was kinda here but not nearly as bad years ago. Lots of members providing a lot of fake information or spreading Ukrainian propaganda. I don't seem to remember seeing the same of Georgian propaganda in the 2008 war even on mp.net
Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice, shame on me.
We must remember a few details:
- Ukraine has multiple times shown their own losses and claimed as that it was Russians dead when it wasn't.
- lied many times of their successes as well as killing generals whom are still alive.
- fake news spread continuously of Russian elites and generals being arrested or fired when none of that was true.
- plenty more
You would think by now people here would be the wiser, but I'm surprised in a saddened way that isn't the case.
Also, I might add regarding troops and equipment:
- from 2009 and till now Russia has been advancing their communication equipment and information gathering gear. First troops to recieve them was western region. I believe back about 2 to 3 years ago well over 300,000 units received these gears with 10+K a year more per year or much more than that. Over that time, Rostec has improved upon said equipment and released different more modern models.
This was a situation garnered after the 2008 conflict where comm systems was lacking and thus heavy emphasis was placed on the production of said equipment. All units have been replaced with such gear.
My assumption is that volunteer units and the LDNR units rely on hand me downs of older Soviet era comm equipment and donated civilian models.
as for using dumb bombs, most planes received basic upgrades like Gefast & T SVP targeting systems. This gives dumb bombs significant accuracy as it's the planes sensors and data to provide the pilot the necessary info of when to drop the bomb for it to land on its target. There isn't a necessary reason to waste money to do the same task hence why the Russians felt the need to really push the G&T upgrade and the one NAPO uses for their plane upgrades.
A lot of members here need to speak less and pay attention rather than post spreading nonsense.
Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice, shame on me.
We must remember a few details:
- Ukraine has multiple times shown their own losses and claimed as that it was Russians dead when it wasn't.
- lied many times of their successes as well as killing generals whom are still alive.
- fake news spread continuously of Russian elites and generals being arrested or fired when none of that was true.
- plenty more
You would think by now people here would be the wiser, but I'm surprised in a saddened way that isn't the case.
Also, I might add regarding troops and equipment:
- from 2009 and till now Russia has been advancing their communication equipment and information gathering gear. First troops to recieve them was western region. I believe back about 2 to 3 years ago well over 300,000 units received these gears with 10+K a year more per year or much more than that. Over that time, Rostec has improved upon said equipment and released different more modern models.
This was a situation garnered after the 2008 conflict where comm systems was lacking and thus heavy emphasis was placed on the production of said equipment. All units have been replaced with such gear.
My assumption is that volunteer units and the LDNR units rely on hand me downs of older Soviet era comm equipment and donated civilian models.
as for using dumb bombs, most planes received basic upgrades like Gefast & T SVP targeting systems. This gives dumb bombs significant accuracy as it's the planes sensors and data to provide the pilot the necessary info of when to drop the bomb for it to land on its target. There isn't a necessary reason to waste money to do the same task hence why the Russians felt the need to really push the G&T upgrade and the one NAPO uses for their plane upgrades.
A lot of members here need to speak less and pay attention rather than post spreading nonsense.
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sepheronx- Posts : 8558
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nomadski wrote:
Two points :
( 1 ) On terrain full of Rivers , Bridges for River crossings , may no longer be viable option . Need Amphibian vehicles , or convert Tanks to Boat , for River crossings .
( 2 ) To stop the enemy using captured or abandoned vehicles , supply demolition charge to crew . Or alternatively attach GPS tracker , for homing Iskander !
https://www.iwm.org.uk/history/the-funny-tanks-of-d-day
Pontoon bridges work fine unless you are Ukrainian. I don't put much into the propaganda the Ukrainians are spreading here. Russia has the advantage of AF to strike these bridges and have been doing it. Other members posted the Russian mods videos of blowing Ukrainian pontoons.
Most tanks and APC's and IFV within Russian armed forces have the ability to traverse shallower rivers hence the snorkel that exists on their tanks.
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caveat emptor- Posts : 1778
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- Post n°781
Re: Russian special military operation in Ukraine #15
caveat emptor Thu May 12, 2022 9:35 pm
For offensive attack from the south they'll need more manpower and that's a main problem of this operation. For major achievement in the south it is enough to advance to Pokrovsk, which is a major road and railroad crossroad.
Pokrovsk
https://maps.app.goo.gl/Y5v1LipisEiJRng18
That would completely cut off forces in the south from supply route and it would gravely undermine whole Donetsk section of the front, where Avdeevka amd Mariinka are located.
Pokrovsk
https://maps.app.goo.gl/Y5v1LipisEiJRng18
That would completely cut off forces in the south from supply route and it would gravely undermine whole Donetsk section of the front, where Avdeevka amd Mariinka are located.
LMFS- Posts : 5104
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sepheronx wrote:I'm noticing a trend on this forums. Was kinda here but not nearly as bad years ago. Lots of members providing a lot of fake information or spreading Ukrainian propaganda. I don't seem to remember seeing the same of Georgian propaganda in the 2008 war even on mp.net
Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice, shame on me.
Fully agree, many pals here either are full blown trolls or are badly losing their shit over the scale of the operation and what is at stake... which is the exact opposite of what is actually needed.
People need to grow some balls, seriously.
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limb- Posts : 1550
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diabetus wrote:The river crossing doesn't seem to be fake.
It isnt but apart from 2-3 vehicles, none of the destroyed AFVs are identifiable regarding whose side theyre on.
As a resident "troll" here, I personally don't care about dumb bombs. In conventional warfare where Russians have achieved air supremacy, they're enough. Im mainly concerned with lack of advances to the south.
Also while the russian helicopters have been doing indirect firing with rocket pods, why haven't russian aircraft been toss bombing? They must have sufficient targeting software for that, since even the Su-22M3 and MiG-23BN had advanced analog CCRP computers for toss bombing. Yet it pains me to see Su-34s and Su-24s having to overfly their targets rather than tossing their bombs 10km from the target.
flamming_python wrote:limb wrote:caveat emptor wrote:I wonder why they never tried big attack in the south? West of Novoselka amd east of Gulyaipole. Terrain there heavily favours Russians, being mostly flat and barren. No major cities as well.
I keep asking the same thing. Multipronged attacks are essential to encircle enemy forces and cut off supply lines, yet there has been 0 advance. This is why I view the Russians as incompetent. Not because of lack of advances in the Donbass, but lack of multipronged attacks in the south.
Regarding the pontoon bridge vehicle massacre, it's still up in the air. Despite the nonsensical nature of those vehicles destruction, you can clearly see an O marking on one of the BMPs no matter(on top for aircraft to see it) how much pei here pretend it's not there. You can see a destroyed BMP-3. Now AFAIK the O grouping is the most competent, with more access to thermals and drones, and they specialize in special forces recon and anti saboteur opérations, not large scale armor attacks, so it doesn't make sense why they would get bogged down with cold war vehicles. Maybe the vehicles were from both sides.
Also, it seems like Ukraine still has 3+ operational captured T-80BVMs as shown in their may 9 parade mocking Russia. This lends credence to large amounts of Russian vehicles being captured , especially up in the north where the Arctic brigade operating the T-80BVMs was
We know a lot of Russian tanks were abandoned during the initial advance. That's mostly when/where they were captured. Still, 3 BVMs is not a lot. They'll have some Us too, T-72B3s and whatever else - but it's peanuts. Most of that stuff was probably destroyed by now.
I saw 2 photos of destroyed alleged ukrainian tanks on the colonelcassad telegram channel. There was a lot of ire from commenters that the destroyed tanks were T-72B 1989 or T-72B3 being passed as ukrainian. However its also highly plausible that those destroyed T-72Bs were captured russian tanks. Especially since these photos were made by DLNR troops, I trust the latter version.
flamming_python- Posts : 9057
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- Post n°784
Re: Russian special military operation in Ukraine #15
flamming_python Thu May 12, 2022 10:02 pm
Tossing bombs requires altitude
That puts you in danger of the anti-air missile systems the Ukraine still has operational
Hence low-level bombing is preferred from Su-25s and Su-24s, or if a target has to be taken out from further away then an air-to-surface missile does nicely.
That puts you in danger of the anti-air missile systems the Ukraine still has operational
Hence low-level bombing is preferred from Su-25s and Su-24s, or if a target has to be taken out from further away then an air-to-surface missile does nicely.
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Arkanghelsk- Posts : 3670
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- Post n°785
Re: Russian special military operation in Ukraine #15
Arkanghelsk Thu May 12, 2022 10:11 pm
Who are such amateurs to claim whether Russia should increase forces or talk about "advances in the south"
Your profession is not military, even if you were a grunt or NCO or even platoon leader
You know nothing of warfare
Knowing tactics does not make you an expert in a science which is planned at the STAFF level
Operations and strategy are not planned by low level commanders
At the end of the day military and political goals have to align
What good will it be if Russian military goals are planned irrespective of the politics?
The US military and policy makers didn't coordinate a thing, what happened? They lost two wars badly and their economies was ruined by it
Russia doesn't need advice from posers or amateurs in how to conduct warfare
The policy makers have defined the bounds of the operation as it is
They believe that they are achieving the goals, and that is proven with metrics and data available to them
Russia is not there to establish a green zone, and fight insurgents for 20 years doing kickbacks to contractors, and doing graft to enrich defense companies
Russia is there to denazify and demilitarize Ukraine
You want to demilitarize an enemy state without bogging down your economy , and without getting stuck in occupation games? Are they NATO backed?
Talk to Shoigu or Gerasimov for a consultation, itl cost you though
Your profession is not military, even if you were a grunt or NCO or even platoon leader
You know nothing of warfare
Knowing tactics does not make you an expert in a science which is planned at the STAFF level
Operations and strategy are not planned by low level commanders
At the end of the day military and political goals have to align
What good will it be if Russian military goals are planned irrespective of the politics?
The US military and policy makers didn't coordinate a thing, what happened? They lost two wars badly and their economies was ruined by it
Russia doesn't need advice from posers or amateurs in how to conduct warfare
The policy makers have defined the bounds of the operation as it is
They believe that they are achieving the goals, and that is proven with metrics and data available to them
Russia is not there to establish a green zone, and fight insurgents for 20 years doing kickbacks to contractors, and doing graft to enrich defense companies
Russia is there to denazify and demilitarize Ukraine
You want to demilitarize an enemy state without bogging down your economy , and without getting stuck in occupation games? Are they NATO backed?
Talk to Shoigu or Gerasimov for a consultation, itl cost you though
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Hole- Posts : 10846
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Didn´t the glorious plan of the west include some decade long insurgency? With all those weapons that the Russians capture,
this insurgency will turn out to be a fiasco, like the army of Molotov cocktail throwing civilians.
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Hole- Posts : 10846
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Chechens doing there thing.
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Hole- Posts : 10846
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Little off-topic. But Nazis are Nazis. The Latvian ones are really pissed right now.
Or are they affraid to react to harsh and get some "UkrainiZation"?GarryB, franco, Big_Gazza, kvs, PapaDragon, GunshipDemocracy, Sprut-B and like this post
limb- Posts : 1550
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Apparently a Russian telegram channel claims that the bridgehead destroyed vehicles are Russian, and that the Russian command kept trying to send vehicles 3-5 times. All were destroyed.
Could the lack of artillery craters mean that the Ukrainians used anti-armir cluster MLRS munitions?
Source:
https://t.me/voenkorKotenok/36201?single
Is this guy for real?
Could the lack of artillery craters mean that the Ukrainians used anti-armir cluster MLRS munitions?
The Russian troops tried to build the crossing itself three times (bridges A, B, C) from May 7 to 11, of course, in the same place. The classic Chernobaevka syndrome - the Ukrainians destroy the equipment of the RF Armed Forces, the Russian command brings in new equipment, then the cycle repeats. The lack of learning of the Russian command, after 3 months of non-war, is frightening.
In total, the losses of the RF Armed Forces were confirmed by the photo:
- 6 tanks (No. 34, 41, 44, 46, 53, 54);
- 14 infantry fighting vehicles (No. 03, 07, 24, 25, 26, 31, 37, 39, 42, 52, 56, 58, 59, 62);
- 8 MT-LB (No. 20, 21, 22, 23, 33, 43, 55, 63);
- 2 boats (No. 35, 45);
- 1 BREM (No. 36);
- 1 PTS (No. 50);
- 4 special vehicles with pontoon links (No. 38, 47, 48, 49);
- 8 units of unknown vehicles (No. 08, 32, 40, 51, 57, 60, 61, 64).
The losses incurred by armored vehicles correspond to an almost complete armored personnel carrier, and it was not lost during the battle with superior enemy forces, as the Russian Defense Ministry likes to report, but solely because of the incompetence of the Russian command (my personal opinion).
Regarding my repost about the losses of our troops and the blows of the Ukronazis.
If you want fairy tales, then you have come to the wrong place. Then you are in officialdom and to those who speak and show "correctly." There will be no dirt and blood.
It's different for me. In time to get together, give the right assessment, speak good for the good, and bad for the bad, but the TRUTH.
And you want to sit in a warm bath and "fight": cozy, soft and affectionate, wellcome to the TV eye. There you will find a lot of things for the delight of hearing, eyes and what else, to whom you like. If you want the truth, have the truth. He who has ears, let him hear, eyes, let him see.
War is such a thing, folks. Bloody. I am telling you not as a court commissar, but as a miraculous survivor of a direct missile hit. And I carry my pieces with me. Fight, and tell me for life.
And in war it happens that we suffer losses. Know this and ... be silent if you have nothing to say in essence. Listen, and draw conclusions, if there is anything.
Source:
https://t.me/voenkorKotenok/36201?single
Is this guy for real?
PapaDragon- Posts : 13312
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- Post n°790
Re: Russian special military operation in Ukraine #15
PapaDragon Thu May 12, 2022 11:32 pm
Sprut-B wrote:...Wives of Ukrainian soldiers are protesting
https://t.me/intelslava/28381
So according to them:
In Ukraine, another rally of women - they complain that their husbands are thrown to the front line without preparation, ammunition, just like cannon fodder
That's because they ARE cannon fodder, you dumb cunts
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sepheronx- Posts : 8558
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- Post n°791
Re: Russian special military operation in Ukraine #15
sepheronx Thu May 12, 2022 11:36 pm
While it's a generalization but if the Ukrainians were top notch in the noggin, then they wouldn't have gotten into this whole mess in the first place.
But I wager that a huge portion of them are rather limited in Grey matter between the ears.
But I wager that a huge portion of them are rather limited in Grey matter between the ears.
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PapaDragon- Posts : 13312
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- Post n°792
Re: Russian special military operation in Ukraine #15
PapaDragon Thu May 12, 2022 11:38 pm
PhSt wrote:NATzO Propagandists are pushing the narrative that Russian soldiers are giving away their positions by using cellphones for communication. What is your take on this?...
Russia went full Bomber Harris (God bless his beautiful soul) on OPSEC to such extent that we can't even get a decent Twitter post from Russian grunts on the frontlines but now we are supposed to believe this shit?
My take is that this is horseshit
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sepheronx- Posts : 8558
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- Post n°793
Re: Russian special military operation in Ukraine #15
sepheronx Thu May 12, 2022 11:42 pm
PapaDragon wrote:PhSt wrote:NATzO Propagandists are pushing the narrative that Russian soldiers are giving away their positions by using cellphones for communication. What is your take on this?...
Russia went full Bomber Harris (God bless his beautiful soul) on OPSEC to such extent that we can't even get a decent Twitter post from Russian grunts on the frontlines but now we are supposed to believe this shit?
My take is that this is horseshit
Something else to take into consideration too - huge portion of Ukraine isn't on any Russian frequency. Those cell phones won't have access unless using wifi and separate programs to talk. But it was also mentioned that Russian authorities have forbid cellphones being taken to the frontline.
Only people who may be dumb enough to try and use cellphones are volunteer units and mercenaries. But even then, it becomes issue number one.
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Erk- Posts : 933
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sepheronx wrote:While it's a generalization but if the Ukrainians were top notch in the noggin, then they wouldn't have gotten into this whole mess in the first place.
But I wager that a huge portion of them are rather limited in Grey matter between the ears.
It's all about greed, Uncle SAM waves a whole bunch of money at the oligarchs, and their pet politicians/government officials, then there is no limits to the injustice that can be imposed on the Ukrainian people. I heard yesterday that the EU are digging into Ukraine's strategic reserves of wheat already, letting the Ukrainians go without, where is the sense in that! It's a premeditated collapse of the country.
/EDIT I missed one point, seems that Ukraine are going to have a bad harvest because a huge number of farm workers have been conscripted, taken off the land, and sent to fight in Donbass.
Last edited by Erk on Fri May 13, 2022 12:53 am; edited 1 time in total
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limb- Posts : 1550
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So is that telegram channel's claim that the Russians failed to force the river 3 times and got a lot of vehicles destroyed true?
flamming_python- Posts : 9057
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- Post n°796
Re: Russian special military operation in Ukraine #15
flamming_python Fri May 13, 2022 12:07 am
limb wrote:So is that telegram channel's claim that the Russians failed to force the river 3 times and got a lot of vehicles destroyed true?
Who are you asking?
No-one here knows
But I did notice no other channel talking about this claim. Which is bad news
If these are Russian vehicles, then this is truly horrific incompetence.
sepheronx- Posts : 8558
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- Post n°797
Re: Russian special military operation in Ukraine #15
sepheronx Fri May 13, 2022 12:28 am
flamming_python wrote:limb wrote:So is that telegram channel's claim that the Russians failed to force the river 3 times and got a lot of vehicles destroyed true?
Who are you asking?
No-one here knows
But I did notice no other channel talking about this claim. Which is bad news
If these are Russian vehicles, then this is truly horrific incompetence.
If it was true, it would have been reported everywhere, even reverse side of the medal.
Nothing.
So I would wager limb is lying.
Python, I expect better from you to fall so easily to cheap propaganda.
They may as well say they killed thousands of Russians in one strike. Doesn't mean it's true.
https://t.me/intelslava/28696
M777A2 was captured.
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caveat emptor- Posts : 1778
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- Post n°798
Re: Russian special military operation in Ukraine #15
caveat emptor Fri May 13, 2022 12:40 am
I've seen that Boris Rozhin mentioned it as well. Not in so many words.flamming_python wrote:limb wrote:So is that telegram channel's claim that the Russians failed to force the river 3 times and got a lot of vehicles destroyed true?
Who are you asking?
No-one here knows
But I did notice no other channel talking about this claim. Which is bad news
If these are Russian vehicles, then this is truly horrific incompetence.
limb- Posts : 1550
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sepheronx wrote:flamming_python wrote:limb wrote:So is that telegram channel's claim that the Russians failed to force the river 3 times and got a lot of vehicles destroyed true?
Who are you asking?
No-one here knows
But I did notice no other channel talking about this claim. Which is bad news
If these are Russian vehicles, then this is truly horrific incompetence.
If it was true, it would have been reported everywhere, even reverse side of the medal.
Nothing.
So I would wager limb is lying.
Python, I expect better from you to fall so easily to cheap propaganda.
They may as well say they killed thousands of Russians in one strike. Doesn't mean it's true.
https://t.me/intelslava/28696
M777A2 was captured.
The russian army never reports losses. If they lose 200 tanks in a day, they won't report it. Voenkotenok and Boris Rozhin aren't pro-ukrainian. Lets hope they're not right.
limb- Posts : 1550
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sepheronx wrote:flamming_python wrote:limb wrote:So is that telegram channel's claim that the Russians failed to force the river 3 times and got a lot of vehicles destroyed true?
Who are you asking?
No-one here knows
But I did notice no other channel talking about this claim. Which is bad news
If these are Russian vehicles, then this is truly horrific incompetence.
If it was true, it would have been reported everywhere, even reverse side of the medal.
Nothing.
So I would wager limb is lying.
Python, I expect better from you to fall so easily to cheap propaganda.
They may as well say they killed thousands of Russians in one strike. Doesn't mean it's true.
https://t.me/intelslava/28696
M777A2 was captured.
You do know that intelslava just translates boris rozhin? I post Boris Rozhin and you accuse me of lying. Better accuse Boris Rozhin and call him a ukrainian troll. Given that certain users called Rybar of all people a ukrainian propagandist, I wouldnt put it past them to do the same with Rozhin.
There are reports that the russians still haven't managed to force the severskiy donets near Belogorovka, so this falls in line with their attempts being massaacred.
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