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    Russian special military operation in Ukraine #9

    kvs
    kvs


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    Post  kvs Mon Apr 04, 2022 3:56 am

    Regular wrote:
    kvs wrote:"If it turns out to be true"

    Seriously?

    Supposedly dead bodies moving around?   Laid out moronically on the road.  

    At least in Racak NATzO's doggies the UCK transferred its dead into a ditch for the photo op.   But in Bucha we had "murdered"
    civilians laid out in locations that do not make any sense if they were killed by an armed force.  


    Then why do Ukrainian nationalists had a video about them asking if they can shoot at people there and it was quickly removed after the killings got public?

    That hand move in HQ video looks like a reflection or spec and the moving body can be due to a curved mirror.

    Check this video


    https://t.me/istorijaoruzija/51398

    All people killed have white armbands. You can guess what they represent.


    It is fake regardless if there are actual dead or not. No point having staged scenes with real bodies available.

    Anyway, people will believe what they want to believe. The question is whether they can do anything about their beliefs.
    The hate propaganda fest in NATzO is not going to achieve anything against Russia even if they get every other country
    to sign up to their crusade. Russia does not need the rest of the planet to exist. It can actually do rather well on
    its own. And if the self-righteous hordes decide to attack, they will all be glassed. That is why the vast majority of
    them will do precisely nothing that matters.

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    flamming_python
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    Post  flamming_python Mon Apr 04, 2022 3:58 am

    kvs wrote:"If it turns out to be true"

    Seriously?

    Supposedly dead bodies moving around?   Laid out moronically on the road.  

    At least in Racak NATzO's doggies the UCK transferred its dead into a ditch for the photo op.   But in Bucha we had "murdered"
    civilians laid out in locations that do not make any sense if they were killed by an armed force.  


    They weren't moving around. At least I don't think so

    They really were murdered, either for being out on the street at the wrong time, or doing things like helping dish out humanitarian aid.

    And by their own government, that claims to defend them from the occupying Russians. Purely as a stunt for the cameras.
    SeigSoloyvov
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    Post  SeigSoloyvov Mon Apr 04, 2022 3:59 am

    Politics and war do go hand in hand the problem is when you tell the military to wage a political war and that's what Putin did and is doing, his own troops are being captured and executed and whats his response?.

    "Play nice with the enemy, I can't look bad here"

    I feel bad for the Russian troops their leader cares more about the enemy and his image than he does his motherlands soliders.

    It's just utterly disgraceful on Putin's end, Guy should be arrested for treason against his army there is just no justifying this disgrace only the blindest and loyal lap dogs will defend it.

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    flamming_python
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    Post  flamming_python Mon Apr 04, 2022 4:03 am

    SeigSoloyvov wrote:Politics and war do go hand in hand the problem is when you tell the military to wage a political war and that's what Putin did and is doing, his own troops are being captured and executed and whats his response?.

    "Play nice with the enemy, I can't look bad here"

    I feel bad for the Russian troops their leader cares more about the enemy and his image than he does his motherlands soliders.

    It's just utterly disgraceful on Putin's end, Guy should be arrested for treason against his army there is just no justifying this disgrace only the blindest and loyal lap dogs will defend it.

    I honestly hope Putin turns around now and says 'game on'

    With the Bucha massacre and evidence of all this other shit being used to show the people the evil the regime in Kiev represents

    That this indecisiveness is just part of the act.
    But it's not, is it..

    Never too late though.
    flamming_python
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    Post  flamming_python Mon Apr 04, 2022 4:22 am

    kvs wrote:"If it turns out to be true"

    Seriously?

    Supposedly dead bodies moving around?   Laid out moronically on the road.  

    At least in Racak NATzO's doggies the UCK transferred its dead into a ditch for the photo op.   But in Bucha we had "murdered"
    civilians laid out in locations that do not make any sense if they were killed by an armed force.  


    I saw the photos. Someone was riding his bike. Other people just dead randomly on the side walks. Some old man near his home.

    I see two possibilities here. Either they were shot, or otherwise killed (but not more than a couple days ago) - and then laid out here and there.
    Or the town was hit by Grad rockets. Because that's what happens with Grad rockets as I understand it. They don't leave craters - the explosives propel ball bearing fragmentation in all directions. It's simply a case of if you're in the open and one lands within 15 meters or whatever the kill radius is - that's it you fall over dead, with whatever it was that you were doing at that precise moment, and with no warning as the rocket travels faster than sound.
    flamming_python
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    Post  flamming_python Mon Apr 04, 2022 5:42 am

    I cannot express my outrage deeply enough.

    I can't

    To massacre your own people for a snuff film directed against the enemy that's "occupying" them

    I'm turning into Arkhangelsk of the early days. I.. I can't breathe!

    This is it. The justification for everything so far. For this one moment. The regime exposed for what it is

    Publish the details of this crime on every TV screen, every YouTube channel controlled by Russia.

    Then. Mobilization.

    Sign the order VVP.


    Last edited by flamming_python on Mon Apr 04, 2022 5:51 am; edited 1 time in total

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    miketheterrible
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    Post  miketheterrible Mon Apr 04, 2022 5:51 am

    flamming_python wrote:I cannot express my outrage deeply enough.

    I can't

    To massacre your own people for a snuff film directed against the enemy that's "occupying" them

    I'm turning into Arkhangelsk of the early days. I.. I can't breathe!

    This is it. The justification for everything so far. For this one moment. The regime exposed for what it is

    Mobilization.

    Sign the order VVP.

    Now you are outraged?

    They had no problem killing civilians for the last 8 years, directly targeting them. Hell, even Porkyshenko said that kids would be going to school in basements because they are directly targeting them. Where was your outrage then? You were shedding tears for these Banderite scumbags no more than a couple days ago.

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    flamming_python
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    Post  flamming_python Mon Apr 04, 2022 5:56 am

    miketheterrible wrote:Now you are outraged?

    They had no problem killing civilians for the last 8 years, directly targeting them.  Hell, even Porkyshenko said that kids would be going to school in basements because they are directly targeting them.  Where was your outrage then?  You were shedding tears for these Banderite scumbags no more than a couple days ago.

    **** yeah I'm outraged

    The war of 2014-2015 the people got their payback. The banderite scum were crushed in Illovaisk and Debaltsevo for those who don't remember.

    Since 2015 yeah there's been fighting, but the rebels always gave as good as they got

    This war I don't understand why we went into. But it doesn't matter. These people have proved their evil and cynicism this time against their own, not the 'Russians' of the Donbass.

    And this event must be published as widely as possible, because it should finally separate the civil serveants, soldiers who think they're defending their country, ordinary Ukrainian people - from their manipulators. If this doesn't then nothing will. But at least some of them, it should finally snap out of it. And then, the hammer is brought down on the villains.

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    miketheterrible
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    Post  miketheterrible Mon Apr 04, 2022 5:58 am

    flamming_python wrote:
    miketheterrible wrote:Now you are outraged?

    They had no problem killing civilians for the last 8 years, directly targeting them.  Hell, even Porkyshenko said that kids would be going to school in basements because they are directly targeting them.  Where was your outrage then?  You were shedding tears for these Banderite scumbags no more than a couple days ago.

    **** yeah I'm outraged

    The war of 2014-2015 the people got their payback. The banderite scum were crushed in Illovaisk and Debaltsevo for those who don't remember.

    Since 2015 yeah there's been fighting, but the rebels always gave as good as they got

    This war I don't understand why we went into. But it doesn't matter. These people have proved their evil and cynicism this time against their own, not the 'Russians' of the Donbass.

    And this event must be published as widely as possible, because it should finally separate the civil serveants, soldiers who think they're defending their coutnry, ordinary Ukrainian people - from their manipulators. If this doesn't then nothing will. But at least some of them, it should finally snap out of it. And then, the hammer is brought down.

    If you have no idea why you went into this conflict by now, then you have no right to comment on anything honestly.  You are directly ignoring everything going on from:

    - Killing Civilians intentionally with artillery fire and snipers for 8 years
    - building biological plants
    - working on nuclear
    - constantly threatening Russia
    - targeting Russians directly

    You are a lost cause honestly.  I am still wondering why you live in Russia.  You dont deserve to live there.  Russia deserves good people.  Not ignorant individuals with zero conscience and care for fellow Russians.

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    TMA1
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    Post  TMA1 Mon Apr 04, 2022 6:01 am

    Hahahaha...

    Am I hearing people call for parliamentary system in place of Putin now? Wake up the NED and others thrived via corrupt parliamentary systems. You guys don't have the luxury for democratic systems. Unless of course you secretly envy servility and the desire to become a western puppet state...

    And others bitching about Putin in a no win situation, with a leader paranoid of assassination and top generals paranoid of assassinations being called cowards. I dont think you guys realize how profoundly fucked it all is and how bad Russia has it. Do you think the west's reaction was just feminine hysteria? There no other moves left to play. You can say what you like about Putin but not many other choices were available. I do not even think things inside Russia are particularly stable.

    You guys better hope Russia succeeds in this enterprise. Because even if they partially fail, it could ultimately spell the doom of Russia as a power independent of western hegemony. If Russia falls then ultimately China will fall, and the mask of tolerance and sweetness will be removed from the monsters in power here in the western world.

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    miketheterrible
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    Post  miketheterrible Mon Apr 04, 2022 6:03 am

    TMA1 wrote:Hahahaha...

    Am I hearing people call for parliamentary system in place of Putin now? Wake up the NED and others thrived via corrupt parliamentary systems. You guys don't have the luxury for democratic systems. Unless of course you secretly envy servility and the desire to become a western puppet state...

    And others bitching about Putin in a no win situation, with a leader paranoid of assassination and top generals paranoid of assassinations being called cowards. I dont think you guys realize how profoundly fucked it all is and how bad Russia has it. Do you think the west's reaction was just feminine hysteria?  There no other moves left to play. You can say what you like about Putin but not many other choices were available. I do not even think things inside Russia are particularly stable.

    You guys better hope Russia succeeds in this enterprise.  Because even if they partially fail, it could ultimately spell the doom of Russia as a power independent of western hegemony. If Russia falls then ultimately China will fall, and the mask of tolerance and sweetness will be removed from the monsters in power here in the western world.

    Who is calling for that?
    SeigSoloyvov
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    Post  SeigSoloyvov Mon Apr 04, 2022 6:07 am

    flamming_python wrote:I cannot express my outrage deeply enough.

    I can't

    To massacre your own people for a snuff film directed against the enemy that's "occupying" them

    I'm turning into Arkhangelsk of the early days. I.. I can't breathe!

    This is it. The justification for everything so far. For this one moment. The regime exposed for what it is

    Publish the details of this crime on every TV screen, every YouTube channel controlled by Russia.

    Then. Mobilization.

    Sign the order VVP.

    That requires a leader with the will and strength to do what needs to be done, Regardless of how evil or wrong they appear to the outside world, but the current one in power isn't that guy, not anymore anyways.

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    flamming_python
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    Post  flamming_python Mon Apr 04, 2022 6:10 am

    miketheterrible wrote:
    TMA1 wrote:Hahahaha...

    Am I hearing people call for parliamentary system in place of Putin now? Wake up the NED and others thrived via corrupt parliamentary systems. You guys don't have the luxury for democratic systems. Unless of course you secretly envy servility and the desire to become a western puppet state...

    And others bitching about Putin in a no win situation, with a leader paranoid of assassination and top generals paranoid of assassinations being called cowards. I dont think you guys realize how profoundly fucked it all is and how bad Russia has it. Do you think the west's reaction was just feminine hysteria?  There no other moves left to play. You can say what you like about Putin but not many other choices were available. I do not even think things inside Russia are particularly stable.

    You guys better hope Russia succeeds in this enterprise.  Because even if they partially fail, it could ultimately spell the doom of Russia as a power independent of western hegemony. If Russia falls then ultimately China will fall, and the mask of tolerance and sweetness will be removed from the monsters in power here in the western world.

    Who is calling for that?

    Someone here did

    Power to be passed to the PM and Duma lol1

    Not the time guys, not the time.
    flamming_python
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    Post  flamming_python Mon Apr 04, 2022 6:12 am

    SeigSoloyvov wrote:
    flamming_python wrote:I cannot express my outrage deeply enough.

    I can't

    To massacre your own people for a snuff film directed against the enemy that's "occupying" them

    I'm turning into Arkhangelsk of the early days. I.. I can't breathe!

    This is it. The justification for everything so far. For this one moment. The regime exposed for what it is

    Publish the details of this crime on every TV screen, every YouTube channel controlled by Russia.

    Then. Mobilization.

    Sign the order VVP.

    That requires a leader with the will and strength to do what needs to be done, Regardless of how evil or wrong they appear to the outside world, but the current one in power isn't that guy, not anymore anyways.

    I haven't lost all faith in him

    He always has a card up his sleeve. He wouldn't have been in power this long otherwise.

    And he hasn't lost a war. Yet

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    TMA1
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    Post  TMA1 Mon Apr 04, 2022 6:14 am

    flamming_python wrote:
    miketheterrible wrote:Now you are outraged?

    They had no problem killing civilians for the last 8 years, directly targeting them.  Hell, even Porkyshenko said that kids would be going to school in basements because they are directly targeting them.  Where was your outrage then?  You were shedding tears for these Banderite scumbags no more than a couple days ago.

    **** yeah I'm outraged

    The war of 2014-2015 the people got their payback. The banderite scum were crushed in Illovaisk and Debaltsevo for those who don't remember.

    Since 2015 yeah there's been fighting, but the rebels always gave as good as they got

    This war I don't understand why we went into. But it doesn't matter. These people have proved their evil and cynicism this time against their own, not the 'Russians' of the Donbass.

    And this event must be published as widely as possible, because it should finally separate the civil serveants, soldiers who think they're defending their country, ordinary Ukrainian people - from their manipulators. If this doesn't then nothing will. But at least some of them, it should finally snap out of it. And then, the hammer is brought down on the villains.

    Nah you lost any legitimate opinions I had of you just a few posts back whining about Russia taking back Crimea and saying how horrible and amoral it was. If you cannot comprehend why Russia needs its military presence in Crimea and how it 2as threatened by the events happening at that time I dont know what to tell you. This is the problem though. You do understand and you are not dumb. You think the small republics Russia fights along side dont realize the importance of crimea?

    Referring to post 898

    "What are you talking about?

    I remember the mass brawls between the Maidanists and anti-Maidanists

    Russia kind of ditched the anti-Maidanists by taking over and annexing the Crimea, thus giving the Ukrainian nationalists very powerful arguments that they were protecting the Ukraine against invasion

    Otherwise the anti-Maidan could have been something"


    Last edited by TMA1 on Mon Apr 04, 2022 6:19 am; edited 1 time in total

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    miketheterrible
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    Post  miketheterrible Mon Apr 04, 2022 6:17 am

    TMA1 wrote:
    flamming_python wrote:
    miketheterrible wrote:Now you are outraged?

    They had no problem killing civilians for the last 8 years, directly targeting them.  Hell, even Porkyshenko said that kids would be going to school in basements because they are directly targeting them.  Where was your outrage then?  You were shedding tears for these Banderite scumbags no more than a couple days ago.

    **** yeah I'm outraged

    The war of 2014-2015 the people got their payback. The banderite scum were crushed in Illovaisk and Debaltsevo for those who don't remember.

    Since 2015 yeah there's been fighting, but the rebels always gave as good as they got

    This war I don't understand why we went into. But it doesn't matter. These people have proved their evil and cynicism this time against their own, not the 'Russians' of the Donbass.

    And this event must be published as widely as possible, because it should finally separate the civil serveants, soldiers who think they're defending their country, ordinary Ukrainian people - from their manipulators. If this doesn't then nothing will. But at least some of them, it should finally snap out of it. And then, the hammer is brought down on the villains.

    Nah you lost any legitimate opinions I had of you just a few posts back whining about Russia taking back Crimea and saying how horrible and amoral it was. If you cannot comprehend why Russia needs its military presence in Crimea and how it 2as threatened by the events happening at that time I dont know what to tell you. This is the problem though. You do understand and you are not dumb. You think the small republics Russia fights along side dont realize the importance of crimea?

    I find it funny that he cant grasp why his own government did yet people from the west (myself included even if I am Ukrainian ethnic) do.  It is probably because we know what horrible shit our government does and what they keep saying what they want to do with Russia.  Yet he should be aware what the 90's was like and who put them into that position?  But giving up Crimea which was Russian longer than the state of Ukraine even existed for technically, was what his favorite government (USSR) did.  So I guess its just that he is mad that USSR is over and borders of Russia's former empire (Russian empire) are starting to go back to what it was.  But in that regard, I dont know why he is upset about it when he lives in Russia. My only guess is he is actually Ukrainian living in Russia which there are a few of them. They are classified as the 5th columnists. He fits the profile perfectly.

    As for the comments about the PM taking over and the Duma, well that is technically impossible.  The next power that would take over after the PM would actually be the security council which is headed by Medvedev currently. I doubt the current PM in Russia would be interested in being President and that the Security council would take over completely.  They are the ones who, along with Putin, pushed for this conflict.  The PM of Russia is mostly just interested in internal economic affairs of the country.

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    flamming_python
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    Post  flamming_python Mon Apr 04, 2022 6:24 am

    Ukrainian blogger Shariy too is at a loss for words after hearing the rumour of the Ukrainian military shelling Bucha

    https://t.me/neoficialniybezsonov/10593

    I almost think this is all some Ukrainian psy-op to destabilize Russia, by provoking and trying to force the Russian president's hand, but with him pussying out

    More likely though, it's a psy-op against those who are 'collaborating' in other regions, psychological terror to demoralize them.
    I don't believe that Ukronazi's "can we shoot those guys" video was released by accident, nor the guys with white armbands lying dead.

    Either way the solution is simple. Launch the boomerang back at them, use it to mobilize our population, and dezombify their population.

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    Post  GarryB Mon Apr 04, 2022 6:24 am

    So if you are already so angry, then take your rifle and go help the Russian army. What are you talking nonsense about here, coward?

    Kiev would love that... get the Russians angry to get them to commit warcrimes too and then they can parade stuff they don't have to fake to western media proving what evil monsters the Russians are.

    The secret is to relax... Kiev is the den of monsters, Russias job is to make them pay for their crimes, but not to become monsters themselves.

    Of course it doesn't matter a lot in practical terms because Russia is now going to look to the rest of the world for its future so the opinion of the west is like the opinion of the people deep in the jungle of New Guinea.

    But this is about removing the monsters from power in the Ukraine and letting the people of the Ukraine choose their own leadership for real, which means agreements with those in power at the moment means nothing... entertainment... a distraction for Kiev, while the bulk of the Ukrainian army is dealt with.

    So ready you are to throw us into the meat grinder hahaha but what can be expected from cute westerners watching it all from YouTube

    No you should not be mandating Russians to go die in a lost cause

    The members on this forum had nothing to do with this situation, this was created by the 1% in the US, who we have no influence over.

    Getting rid of their regime in the Ukraine is not a lost cause.... it is a certainty, and more importantly although many wont understand it now you are doing this for the benefit of Russia and Russians but also Ukraine and Ukrainians because the west was never going to fix the Ukraine... never going to spend any money on it... when it is done with them they will be discarded.

    Conversely they were a threat to Russia moving forward... they didn't have the force numbers to do anything conventionally, but with nukes and bio weapons they were more of a danger than anything the US has ever faced.

    And then defending scum like deripaska and his putin and medinsky for not carpet bombing Ukraine

    So you are a nazi too, you want ukrainian civilians killed in enormous numbers in the hope you might get some of the nazis... so glad you are not in charge.

    Basically you are saying : "but but but the poor civilians! Poor brother nazis!"

    The nazis are embedded into their military and political structures in a way they can't just be washed out easily... the poor civilians he is talking about are the ones that want to speak Russian and have better relations with Russia... Zelensky got voted in to power by saying he wanted better relations with Russia and to end the fighting in the Donbass and Lugansk... those civilians voted for him to do that... doesn't sound like the sort of thing real nazis would do... they would have gone for Poro and his solution of war and joining HATO and EU... well they got the first bit anyway.

    Oh I understand quite clearly, after seeing our guys come back maimed and destroyed

    And then seeing sobbing for ukropians

    The people of the Donbass and Lugansk who are fighting side by side with Russia in this war, who have been fighting the last 8 years are Ukrainians.

    Instead of leveling Ukraine and walking in there victorious , we will juggle on the unicycle

    Levelling the place kills civilians and their homes and businesses... most of the time the soldiers walk away from such attacks and continue to fight.

    US attacks on cities in Iraq weren't over in 10 hours... they didn't just level the place and job done... they levelled the place and then the job started...

    I think its time you say sorry to PapaDragon, he was right after all. It took you more than a month to realize what he had understood in the early days. He got banned though so won't be able to reply, but he may still be browsing this forum as guest and see your post.

    PD drinks the cool aide...

    The mother of all insurgencies.... only for the defenceless civilians they are going to get killed using them as meatshields to fire at Russians from behind, and all the civilians conscripted into their own army that they chain up and use as cannon fodder.

    The west will try to blame Russia, but the people will know who did this.

    Meanwhile, on "civilized" western social media:
    Want to buy an anti-Russia T-shirt?.

    absolutely disgusting

    Even their fictional heros hide their faces...

    It doesn't matter at all even if 2 million Ukrainians die. What counts in the end is the territory you hold. If Russia finally conquers only Novorossiya and makes it independent or incorporates it, the rest of Ukraine will be free to do whatever they want. Like I wrote russian troops not only withdrew from Kiev, they withdrew from the WHOLE northern front...they occupy only a small part in the area of Sumy. A area large as Belgium and netherland together was given up where NAZIs can roam freely and do whatever NAZIshit they want to do.

    Russia is operating with a much smaller force than the Orcs have so a siege on cities does not make sense. Mobile warfare and encirclements of enemy forces is what you want to do... they encircled the Orc forces near Donbass and also sent forces towards the south and Kiev so the rest of the Orc force could not be mobilised to relieve and support the Donbass pocket... having pinned most of the Orc forces where they were essentially they have spent the first weeks of the war taking out ammo and fuel depots and taking out storage areas of tanks and aircraft and also all their military industrial complex that could fix and keep their army working in operational conditions.... now holding orc forces near Kiev no longer makes any sense... staying there does not serve any purpose because they no longer have the military vehicles or fuel supplies to move normal armoured forces from the rest of the country to the Donbass. By weakening them like this any forces moving will be dribs and drabs that can be picked off by helicopters and attack aircraft as well as artillery and then they can just start crushing the pockets of the majority of the Orc army in the Donbass.

    There is no need to level the Ukraines cities... if the Kiev ever manages to piss the Russians off then attacks on wheat fields and economic targets and they will really suffer.

    And don't forget that the western world will pour hundreds of billions of dollars into Ukraine.

    No they wont. Americans and westerners poured money into Haiti and none of it got spend in Haiti... and in 6 months after the conflict... or even 6 days they wont care any more anyway.

    When the price of petrol is 12 dollars a litre they could care less about Ukraine.

    My only concern is that denazification in Ukraine is failing!

    They are doing what they do... the locals will want them dead more than the Russians will...

    Shock and Awe does not work... it has never worked... it is just more Western propaganda bullshit.

    Well look how they look now, harping on about some meaningless victories in donbass

    Where most of the orc army is located... it was the force that was supposed to invade the Donbass and then the Crimea... it is all their best soldiers and weapons... it is what they need to destroy.

    Western clowns on both sides sit in chairs rooting for their favorite variety of killed Russians

    They really won this big time on us

    They got what they wanted, they wanted a war with Russia to weaken Russia to break Russia to get Russians to want to overthrow Putin and put some idiot into power, so you are helping them more than we are.

    But the real core is they were always going to win the propaganda battle in the west, there is no independent voice in western media, no critical thinking... they just print what they are told to print and when it turns out to be a lie they put the new lies for today on the front pages and hide the retraction on page 59.

    Russia has stopped taking Euros and US dollars and is going to be trading with everyone in different currencies... when more countries do this... this is going to destroy the US economy as it is based now... they are shooting themselves in the foot.

    What is funny is half the guy's here wanting me to pickup a rifle

    Get real quiet at work or around their friends when asked what they think about the war

    You cowards are scared of losing your jobs and your Twitter accounts then of fighting for what you believe in

    While it's very easy for you to send us into a war you have no stake or skin in

    Well it's better for you to shut your mouth the next time your at your companies coffee rooms right

    When you are the boss you say what you like.

    And cowards like the Ukrainians have been for the last 8 years... of course some probably loved the anti Russia shit, but I doubt they loved the poverty and destruction of their once proud industries and capabilities... nazis are not good with the money side.... the west is not good at building up economies... it seems they have forgotten the basics.

    These nazis will never go away on their own, you had to deal with them at some point and dealing with them now before bio weapons and nukes are ready is the right time.

    What the Nazis are doing to Russian prisoners and civilians is clearly wrong, for the Russians to start doing the same would also be just as wrong.... don't you love the clarity.... so many believe the west is a force for good and Russia is bad, but this objectively proves the west is a force for bad and their stooges in the Ukraine are also a force for actual evil.... they are trying to goad you in to being as evil as they are and you are resisting... or your military is resisting.

    Ironic an Athiest talking about a war between good and evil.... because normally it is not this clear cut... though ironically that is because most of the wars of the last few decades have been western colonial economic wars, but the moral wars.... Russian and Iranian troops helping Syrian troops in Syria, and this conflict right now and the conflict in Georgia were clearly righteous wars that were necessary.

    Ask Vlad how he felt being suffocated by his own body as it failed him... we can be certain if he knew what was coming this conflict happening 5 years ago would have been something he would be grabbing his rifle and signing on the dotted line, because killing nazis threatening Russia is what serving your country is all about... and their behaviour just makes shooting them in combat so much easier to do with a clear conscience.

    What is wrong is simply wrong! Don't kill civilians!!! Then Russia is exactly what is being broadcast non-stop in western media. But they are better.

    Lots of members who support the west claim I am part Russian or married to a Russian or all sorts of things like that.

    Nope. No Russian at all.... completely Anglosaxon... I don't even know any Russians personally in my private life.

    Why do I support them?

    Because they are right and the west is wrong. Putin is honest and open and not like western politicians at all... he actually cares about Russia and Russians.

    Ahh, I hear you say but he is killing Russians right now.... true, but to save all of them sometimes you need to risk quite a lot as well and contract soldiers signed up not for the money, but to defend their country.

    When was the last time a western soldier actually defended their country with their life?

    Which war was America or Europe actually threatened... a long time.

    I think the west only catalyzes its own decay and accelerates it. In one fell swoop they lose the geostrategic weight of Russia and Central Asia which they will need in the fight against China.

    For the west it is even worse than that... they don't just lose Russia, they add Russia to China... a peer enemy with better air defence and other military systems including a nuclear arsenal better than the wests, being added to what China has become... and is continuing to grow in to... and India is looking at the Ukraine and probably thinking they picked the wrong side, their future as an independent power is much brighter than it could ever be as Americas bitch because they wont rank as high as the EU and UK most of the time...

    Whatever popsicle, it's not like you'd say half what you say here to your colleagues anyway

    He is not in the Army now because he did say to his colleagues what he thought was true... and they have ignored him at their peril.

    Let Levy leave

    That shameless neo-con propagandist is of questionable value dead, and Russia can't take him hostage and interrogate him either. If he hasn't picked up a gun then he's just a foreign civilian stuck in Mariupol, so far as the conventions of war go.

    As for all the combatants, foreign or not - the only way out is surrender.

    Let an instigator and agitator leave, but Putin must face court for his crimes.

    He is a foreign merc, the geneva convention and the Hague conventions don't apply...

    He is no innocent bystander or theory guy that lives in an ivory tower in some western university... he was on site managing the defence and operations... he is essentially part of the millitary planning team... he might have lots of useful information... certainly an important person they could swap for people they might want back from the west.

    If russians knows him and recognize him he is dead. He talks too much and he basically led the french in Lybia. He will be killed with no pitty IMO.

    He has created serious damage for Russia and now the west, but he is more valuable alive... keep him prisoner for a year or two while you decide who you want to trade him for...

    He's not directing military strategy

    About the propaganda war and whatever, leave him be. Soft power my ass. Let him take the boat back to Odessa, or Marseilles, or wherever he wants to go

    Showing that you're scared of his neo-con info-war power is just a sign of weakness.

    He is not there to smell the roses...

    Putin needs to take responsibility and put his elites in line

    Why... are different opinions not to be tolerated?

    They are prideful people, I wouldn't be surprised if they exit the stage with this mediocrity being passed off as a strategy

    I am sure they are enjoying the opportunity to kill nazis and practise their trade... there were plenty of anti Russian chechens there too to deal with, and of course quite a few westerners that helped the anti Russian side in the chechen conflict they will want to settle scores with too.

    Who's right and who's wrong can be decided when the country is no longer at war.

    When it comes to opinions both can be right or both could be wrong.

    By "pure chance" this correlates 100% to what adversaries of Russia engage in the informational field. Yet we host such guys in a Russia defence forum, go figure

    Important to accept that even Russians can be victims of western propaganda... or just plain be wrong.

    Someone said thet he likely tries to run dressed as a woman. Let's hope he succeeds of course after consummation by a bunch of horney azonazi . then gets a boat trying to navigate to France but ., darn winds will blow towards Libya. Where he's gonna be properly welcomed

    Or if he is captured they can interrogate him for a couple of months and swap him for someone Russia wants back.... some chechen rebel scum, or as you mention... send him to face trial for his crimes in Libya...

    And if he didn't say it, so then hurry up and make the deal with Kiev that you were demanding from the beginning - neutrality for the Ukraine, recognition of DNR/LNR independence, and recognition of Russian Crimea.

    Right now the Russian leadership is trying to sit on 2 chairs and appease everybody

    Zelenskys signature on a document isn't worth shit.... it is a distraction while the Russian army and airforce and navy get things done.

    My mind is set after the Bucha 'massacre' honestly

    If they really did shell their own people just for yet another propaganda movie..

    Then they will stop at absolutely nothing. That means Russia cannot either. But Russia must convince the Ukrainian people of the truth of the people ruling them.

    People who commit such atrocities not just against enemy soldiers but also their own civilians are not worth worrying about... in this conflict Russia is clearly on the right side... and I suspect there will be plenty of their own conscripted soldiers who will reveal what their superiors were doing to civilians and others...

    This is a pretty open and shut case.

    And not something that would have just gone away or could be ignored forever...

    this can be done like Japs after 45 and 2 nukes? no way to "convince" people before they are freed from brainwashing.

    They have to be broken out of the cage before they realise they were in one.

    Funny how the bickering at the leadership level translates to the bickering here on the forum

    Forum members disagree on all sorts of things, nothing at all new there.

    So the MOD are lying that they destroyed the vast majority of buks and all S-300s. Less than 20 buks isnt "extremely heavy air defense "

    Not lying at all. If they have 500 mobile air defence vehicles like Strela-10 and BUK and S-300 and Tunguska and TOR, and over 400 of those systems are known to have been destroyed then you would say the vast majority are destroyed... especially when all the radars and comms centres and HQs of the IADS were also hit and taken out.

    The point is that if they had only 80 of those types of vehicles operational and hidden and scattered around the place together with Stingers and old Iglas then it actually still constituted the best air defences they have ever faced operationally in the last 40 years, but of course over time vehicles used will get picked off and diminished but MANPADS will remain a threat no matter what so the airspace is still dangerous.


    Anglo-Saxons now planning to hit India with nuclear weapons because India decided to buy Russian oil.

    Who is this Andy Scrotumlicker and why do you think he is in charge of UK foreign policy?

    Before the start of this conflict Ukraine was credited with quite a substantial AD missile force. The Army had 4 AD Regiments that included some S-330V's, a couple of Tor-M's and substantial numbers of Strela-10's (sa-13), Osas (sa-Cool and Tunguskas. The Air Force was credited with 75 Buk-M1's and 250 S-300's as well as some S-125's (sa-3) in 6 AD brigades and 4 AD Regiments. That is quite a significant AD force that the Russians had to deal with.

    With a working IADS it was probably better than all of HATOs ground based AD combined, and even with the IADS destroyed it is still dangerous.

    Because it is mobile and easy to hide and capable.

    They already have stolen the $300 billon that they froze, this is a given now.

    It will be interesting to see how Russia responds.

    There are rumors that the Ukrainians are holding hostage NATO(possibly French) advisors in the Mariupol steel factory.

    How dumb are they... Russia probably wants them alive but wont lose any sleep if they die in the crossfire.

    #FLASH—#Russia reports that pursuant to a request from #Erdogan, at midnight, on April 3, 2022, a green corridor will be open to allow "FOREIGN NATIONALS KEPT HOSTAGE by #Ukraine|ian nationalist battalions in certain districts of #Mariupol" to proceed to #Berdyansk, then #Crimea.

    When they get to the Crimea I hope they will then be detained for their crimes against Russia...

    They were not in the Ukraine for fun... and if even the nazis are turning on them they must be really annoying too.

    "This is the top position for guided weapons: ATGM (ПС, 'противотанковые снаряды', 'anti-tank shells') and AAM (ВОЗД., 'AIR')

    That is for setting Vikhr missiles to HEAT for anti armour use or HE Frag for air to air use or against soft targets. The switch pretty much sets the fuse in the missile so it is suitable for the target it is about to be used against.

    Only this ridiculous withdrawal in the north east of Kyiv, completely absurd and now western agents and fuckers should flee?

    To the Crimea... to Russia... for a chat...

    What should the Russian soldiers think? Your victims are nothing worth if the whole thing is not taken for all times! Completely!

    Russian soldiers are eliminating a serious threat to Russia and Russians, and talks mean nothing... if Kiev holds up a signed piece of paper and demands this or that... Russia can hold up the Minsk agreements and tear them up.

    Kiev can say anything it pleases but Russia has not signed anything.

    Anyone know which monuments they are protecting in Kiev?

    Statues of Hitler and Goerbels?

    Secretary of State Antony Blinken says Washington will “allow” lifting of sanctions to help Ukraine negotiate end to the war


    Looks like DC is shitting bricks to do this

    Anyway if washington is wanting to lift sanctions it looks like they've hit a wall , I just hope we don't take the bait

    After all this loss of life I hope they don't try to restore ties with the countries still keen to kill Russians and steal Russian resources.

    It is the west that needs to sit down and have a good look at itself... Russia is not the problem... and neither is Putin...

    Later in his show, Todd asked former Secretary of State Hillary Clinton, “Can we really live in a world where Putin’s let back into the new world order?” Clinton agreed with Blinken, saying the US should support Ukrainians as they choose “the best way forward” for their country.

    WOW... the wicked witch of the west does not want Putins head... the Clintons must have lots of money and investments tied up in something that being cut off from Russia will destroy...

    Even more reason to not negotiate any time soon.

    Not in physical sense (at least in foreseeable future) but their goal is drive a wedge between Russia , China and India. The stepping up of info war shows clearly desperation of west. Their economical position are crumbling. They are desperate to keep Frankenstein moving...

    The UK has been trying to drive a wedge between Russia and India for the last three centuries... and has failed miserably... in many situations driving them much closer together.

    China/Russia/India should be more active in setting up trade relations and currency swaps for developing nations, to prevent them falling into economic chaos as a result of devaluation or financial assaults.

    And build up its navy to the point where it can provide practical support to sea lines of communication (SLOC) that will help those countries trade and grow... together with the Chinese who will want the same, if India gets on board too India could buy Chinese and Russian naval vessels and the problems of protecting the SLOC free can be simplified and reduced to manageable levels.

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    Russian special military operation in Ukraine #9 - Page 38 Empty Re: Russian special military operation in Ukraine #9

    Post  flamming_python Mon Apr 04, 2022 6:27 am

    TMA1 wrote:
    flamming_python wrote:
    miketheterrible wrote:Now you are outraged?

    They had no problem killing civilians for the last 8 years, directly targeting them.  Hell, even Porkyshenko said that kids would be going to school in basements because they are directly targeting them.  Where was your outrage then?  You were shedding tears for these Banderite scumbags no more than a couple days ago.

    **** yeah I'm outraged

    The war of 2014-2015 the people got their payback. The banderite scum were crushed in Illovaisk and Debaltsevo for those who don't remember.

    Since 2015 yeah there's been fighting, but the rebels always gave as good as they got

    This war I don't understand why we went into. But it doesn't matter. These people have proved their evil and cynicism this time against their own, not the 'Russians' of the Donbass.

    And this event must be published as widely as possible, because it should finally separate the civil serveants, soldiers who think they're defending their country, ordinary Ukrainian people - from their manipulators. If this doesn't then nothing will. But at least some of them, it should finally snap out of it. And then, the hammer is brought down on the villains.

    Nah you lost any legitimate opinions I had of you just a few posts back whining about Russia taking back Crimea and saying how horrible and amoral it was. If you cannot comprehend why Russia needs its military presence in Crimea and how it 2as threatened by the events happening at that time I dont know what to tell you. This is the problem though. You do understand and you are not dumb. You think the small republics Russia fights along side dont realize the importance of crimea?

    Referring to post 898

    "What are you talking about?

    I remember the mass brawls between the Maidanists and anti-Maidanists

    Russia kind of ditched the anti-Maidanists by taking over and annexing the Crimea, thus giving the Ukrainian nationalists very powerful arguments that they were protecting the Ukraine against invasion

    Otherwise the anti-Maidan could have been something"

    I wasn't whining about annexing the Crimea. It was the least Russia could do in that situation. Key word being 'least'

    I was opining that a better solution would have been to solidify Yanukovich there or in Kharkov, so that he could mobilize troops and population to his side from across the south and east of the Ukraine, and we'd avoid this whole shitshow we're having now.
    Naturally he and this legitimate state structure opposed to the illegal one in Kiev would have been completely dependent on Russia, so no chance of the Russian fleet going anywhere.

    I went into detail on this in an earlier post still.
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    Post  TMA1 Mon Apr 04, 2022 6:30 am

    Agreed and I think it is one of those things where we dont have as much blood in the game and it is easier to see things a bit less personally. Try talking to a Polish person about this current conflict and you will see what I mean.

    Russians are cool. Very passionate. Their expats I have known come from the soviet era so it's all a little different. Even then they come in two varieties. They either miss Soviet times and wax philosophic about it. Or they see it as a nightmare and do the exact same thing. I've even seen the latter variety talk about how bad it was and yet occasionally they would say how much they miss it. Russians are crazy, but they are pretty awesome, too. There are quite a few eastern european and russian people who live here in eastern washington where I live.
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    Post  TMA1 Mon Apr 04, 2022 6:38 am

    Sorry, I'll go back a thread and read further. Also as I said in previous post it isnt like I live in the midst of this crisis so I have to be wary of talking like I have the same skin in the game. Sadly in these dark times we are all going to feel the effects of this buy still it isnt the same.

    You usually have some good posts FP I just see all this as an outsider that is afraid to see the western "rules based world order" (typical neocon sounding tripe) gobble up the whole world chunk by chunk. I have no illusions about how evil some of these neocons/neolibs are.
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    Russian special military operation in Ukraine #9 - Page 38 Empty Re: Russian special military operation in Ukraine #9

    Post  flamming_python Mon Apr 04, 2022 6:54 am

    TMA1 wrote:Agreed and I think it is one of those things where we dont have as much blood in the game and it is easier to see things a bit less personally. Try talking to a Polish person about this current conflict and you will see what I mean.

    Russians are cool. Very passionate. Their expats I have known come from the soviet era so it's all a little different. Even then they come in two varieties. They either miss Soviet times and wax philosophic about it. Or they see it as a nightmare and do the exact same thing. I've even seen the latter variety talk about how bad it was and yet occasionally they would say how much they miss it. Russians are crazy, but they are pretty awesome, too. There are quite a few eastern european and russian people who live here in eastern washington where I live.

    The Polish regime is just another Anglo-saxon project of turning fellow Slavs against one another. Along the same lines as the Ukrainian project, just w/o the outright Nazis.

    Their govt. heads are now busy saying things like "Russophobia has now become mainstream", and with glee too

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    Russian special military operation in Ukraine #9 - Page 38 Empty Re: Russian special military operation in Ukraine #9

    Post  GarryB Mon Apr 04, 2022 7:41 am

    Ahhhh so John this article is permissible hmmm?

    It seems economics has much to do with this war!

    Anyway funny they offer this

    I understand your sarcasm, but to be totally honest what the US actually says about this situation, or what its minions do in an effort to align the world against Russia in theis situation has more relevance and importance than anything the clown if Kiev mutters where ever he might be at the moment.

    Thry also said they can't talk with Panistan anymore as long as Khan is prime minister because he said pakistani are not nato slaves to obei them on Russia.

    If they can push Pakistan and India and China together with Russia, then finally they will be doing some good for the world... of course the independent thought that Khan is displaying and India and China are both displaying is not understood in the west... washington said something and they are not agreeing... they must be bad... they must be with the terrorists.

    In Kazakhstan foreign intel agent tried to assassinator president. Color revolution gone wrong... We need to fix it? The next who Putin? West gets more and more desperate...

    Actually I am suspicious.... Zelensky seems so keen to meet Putin in person... I hope personal security is very high because he is the sort of dick that might think if I can kill Putin then my family will be looked after forever in the west and I will be a hero instead of a tie eating wannabe.

    US increased oil supplies from Russia by 43% in a week

    Not just that... but I would assume they are paying Rubles now too?

    This should be the goal of the current operation in Ukraine for Russia.

    Crimea will remain Russian and not part of any new state... it also remains to be seen what parts of the Ukraine want to work together or if they just want to join the Russian Federation for real security moving forward.

    They will suffer battered wife syndrome from their treatment from Kiev which ultimately came from the US.

    Some will want to crawl back...

    Russia kind of ditched the anti-Maidanists by taking over and annexing the Crimea, thus giving the Ukrainian nationalists very powerful arguments that they were protecting the Ukraine against invasion

    Russia didn't annex anything. The people of Crimea made an educated choice... you can say what is happening now is annexation and it is clearly much different from what happened in the Crimea... the difference is that while the people of the Ukraine might like to join Russia and speak Russian their political and military leadership don't. In the Crimea the people wanted to be Russian and the political and military leadership did too so there was no conflict... just some voting.

    When Russia is done in these Ukrainian regions and the nazis are removed the people will decide if they want their own state or to join Russia in referendums that will give them the choices that Russia will allow them to have.

    Otherwise the anti-Maidan could have been something

    It wasn't Russias business... it has only become Russian business since then.

    There are rumors that prorussian civilians are being massacred in northern Kiev. I feel like the Russian military betrayed them by retreating.

    Their own government armed them... if they are getting killed and not fighting back... Russia didn't create this situation... the US did.

    And the UK and EU and US are prolonging it...

    Well yes you're right and it's just the latest betrayal,

    No. Kiev betrayed the Ukrainian people to the US of Hell... Russia is in the process of fixing that... does snuckums feel betrayed... well maybe Russia feels betrayed that Orcs turned into rabid haters of Russia so quickly and so damn easily.

    I'm not a hawk or hardliner and this war is bullshit, but any more blatant weakness and incompetence and the Europeans/Americans will eat us alive while the rest of world will ditch us.

    You are a pussy, this war was forced onto Russia... for decades it has been Putin the weak, but now he invades he is weak?

    Really? Perhaps your understanding is warped... Putin spent the last 20 odd years trying to negotiate terms with the west but what they created in Georgia and Ukraine clearly shows there is nothing to negotiate... you act like this war has broken Russia but it has freed Russia of western bullshit... now you can look to cutting those toxic ties to those child molesting cannibals and start a real future with China and India and the rest of the world...

    Kadyrov is the template of a leader that inspires confidence

    Confidence in what... he can't run a country... you sound like you want Stalin... what a stupid emotional idiot.

    Perhaps, but image counts for a lot

    Image is a shiny white toothed grin from America creating wars in Syria and Ukraine to sell fucking gas to the EU...

    Hopefully, this would lead to less deaths rather than more.

    Reducing the death count but fucking up the whole operation and having to withdraw with no results is worse than losing more troops but getting the job done.

    And the West wouldn't dare take him out.

    They have been trying for 20 odd years.

    Politics and war do go hand in hand the problem is when you tell the military to wage a political war and that's what Putin did and is doing, his own troops are being captured and executed and whats his response?

    Bullshit. Not every war requires the civilian population to be murdered... probably why you lost in Afghanistan...

    Troops get captured and the actions of the enemy will ensure they wont get captured in future and more effort will be taken to prevent capture in the first place.

    "Play nice with the enemy, I can't look bad here"

    Not at all. Kill the enemy, but don't just murder all their civilians the way they do and you will get them on side because these are your neighbours and only a small fraction are your enemy... don't be stupid and have to fight them all.

    I feel bad for the Russian troops their leader cares more about the enemy and his image than he does his motherlands soliders.

    Your leaders don't give a shit about you. Putin knows that Russian soldiers that kill civilians and prisoners are not soldiers.

    It's just utterly disgraceful on Putin's end, Guy should be arrested for treason against his army there is just no justifying this disgrace only the blindest and loyal lap dogs will defend it.

    Funny how the solution is always removing Putin... almost like you realise what a threat he is to the west and you want him removed...

    The even funnier thing is the west is led by idiots... wouldn't want a single one removed from their jobs at this moment... they are fucking things up big time.

    With the Bucha massacre and evidence of all this other shit being used to show the people the evil the regime in Kiev represents

    You just starting to notice this is exactly what the west has been wanting all this time... the best way to make this a forever war is to alienate the civilian population and just start to kill people at random like your enemy does.

    The forces moving from Kiev can assist in destroying the Orcs in the cauldrons outside Donbass and any orcs on their way from other parts of the country to assist can be destroyed in route in the open... orcs on the ground hunting Russian supply columns will have nothing on drones and attack helicopters and attack aircraft hunting these orc lines...

    I see two possibilities here. Either they were shot, or otherwise killed (but not more than a couple days ago) - and then laid out here and there.

    What about bio weapons... that would explain the lack of blood on the ground...

    This war I don't understand why we went into.

    They have justified all their crimes so far by saying... it is OK because we are only maiming and killing Russians... they are nazis, nukes, bio weapons... any of those four reasons is good enough to **** them over like you are doing right now.

    The west is applauding and throwing weapons and money on to the fire... looking forward to prices getting stupid and exports in something other than US dollars.

    You guys better hope Russia succeeds in this enterprise. Because even if they partially fail, it could ultimately spell the doom of Russia as a power independent of western hegemony.

    Even if the west could manage it, Russia is not going to submit like the faggots in the EU and UK and the rest of the so called west did... the rest of the world is there wanting free and fair trade the way China and Russia deliver it... not the way the west uses it as a weapon and a control.

    If Russia falls then ultimately China will fall, and the mask of tolerance and sweetness will be removed from the monsters in power here in the western world.

    The monster is in plain sight... the mask is a fabrication of the western media that western people look upon to keep clear consciences... the rest of the world don't see the mask, they see the iron fist and many do as they are told because of that... don't judge them... it is easier than fighting a war you can't win on your own.

    Russia and China are creating an alternative to the west however which is finally a real threat for the west and the west is actually scared... listen to Blinken blink...

    Even Hillary fucking Clinton doesn't want to follow through on hard core sanctions that divide the west from all of its resources in Russia...

    They don't want to push it away, they want to split it up so it is easier to digest, but instead of Russia breaking... the Ukraine is.

    That requires a leader with the will and strength to do what needs to be done, Regardless of how evil or wrong they appear to the outside world, but the current one in power isn't that guy, not anymore anyways.

    Which means the opposite is true normally.

    I almost think this is all some Ukrainian psy-op to destabilize Russia, by provoking and trying to force the Russian president's hand, but with him pussying out

    You give them way more credit than they deserve... get some people to lie down in the street and film them and blame the Russian invaders...

    It is not rocket science and it is not working... I certainly don't believe them. Never really did... there was no period of truth to create any trust... any true things they say are by accident and even then hard to believe.

    I was opining that a better solution would have been to solidify Yanukovich there or in Kharkov, so that he could mobilize troops and population to his side from across the south and east of the Ukraine, and we'd avoid this whole shitshow we're having now.

    There were no nukes and no bio weapons labs and fewer nazis... it wasn't any of Russias business then.

    Agreed and I think it is one of those things where we dont have as much blood in the game and it is easier to see things a bit less personally. Try talking to a Polish person about this current conflict and you will see what I mean.

    Acting rationally and without emotion is what has made Putin such a great leader... shooting down ten Turkish fighters after they brought down one Russian aircraft or destroying the airbase the guilty fighter operated from would not have solved anything, and would have made things a lot worse.

    The responses he chose led to Turkey currently taking a largely neutral stance on the current conflict which is an astounding political result... look at how the US and UK and EU have to bully their trading partners to their point of view.... pathetic.

    Their govt. heads are now busy saying things like "Russophobia has now become mainstream", and with glee too

    But that is good.... Putin has spent the last 20 years bending and manouvering to create friendships and partnerships with the west and they have been abusing him and trying to turn him around to line up his ass to **** Russia.

    This conflict as well as the conflict in a dozen other countries is their fault and they could care less about the dead and injured... let them be Russophobic... if you are not scared of the west now then you should be and want to have nothing at all to do with them.

    Sell them gas and oil for Rubles but don't do them any favours because they are total bastards.

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    Airbornewolf
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    Russian special military operation in Ukraine #9 - Page 38 Empty Re: Russian special military operation in Ukraine #9

    Post  Airbornewolf Mon Apr 04, 2022 8:13 am

    kvs wrote:"If it turns out to be true"

    Seriously?

    Supposedly dead bodies moving around?   Laid out moronically on the road.  

    At least in Racak NATzO's doggies the UCK transferred its dead into a ditch for the photo op.   But in Bucha we had "murdered"
    civilians laid out in locations that do not make any sense if they were killed by an armed force.  


    For the ones that still have not seen the obvious....



    In all fairness...the road is wet and cold Wink ...


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    Walther von Oldenburg
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    Russian special military operation in Ukraine #9 - Page 38 Empty Re: Russian special military operation in Ukraine #9

    Post  Walther von Oldenburg Mon Apr 04, 2022 8:14 am

    Is any progress being made by Russian forces?

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