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    Coronavirus pandemic 2019-20 #4

    JohninMK
    JohninMK


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    Post  JohninMK Sat Nov 27, 2021 11:28 pm

    sundoesntrise wrote:
    No you dummy, this never ends.

    I can see you haven't been here long. On most forums calling a Mod a "dummy" is usually, like snakes and ladders, a quick route to the exit or a ban.

    Might I suggest, if you wish to stay, that you revise your comment.

    GarryB and Kiko like this post

    JohninMK
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    Post  JohninMK Sat Nov 27, 2021 11:38 pm

    kvs wrote:It is clear by now that health is not the agenda with this covid-vax absurdity.    The fake stream media is using the exact
    same hyperbolic language to describe the omicron strain.   (They skipped over the xi strain, LOL).    

    Imagine the panic if every flu mutation was treated this way.    Morons are expected to believe that mutation = virulence.
    That is BS, virulence has to be established and not asserted.    Apparently the strain in Japan mutated itself into near
    oblivion by degrading its ability to induce cell apoptosis on account of mutations in RNA binding protein (RBP) binding sites
    which the virus uses to deplete the cell RBPs and induce DNA damage.   I have seen no evidence presented that the
    African omicron strain is more virulent.  

     

    The South Africans are saying that whilst it might be fast spreading it isn't much of a problem.

    How she was allowed to say this is beyond me. Maybe the comment just escaped into the wild on the Russian rat run Smile

    JOHANNESBURG (Sputnik) - The new Omicron variant of the coronavirus results in mild disease, without prominent symptoms, Angelique Coetzee, the chairwoman of the South African Medical Association, told Sputnik on Saturday.

    "It presents mild disease with symptoms being sore muscles and tiredness for a day or two not feeling well. So far, we have detected that those infected do not suffer loss of taste or smell. They might have a slight cough. There are no prominent symptoms. Of those infected some are currently being treated at home", Coetzee said
    The official noted that hospitals have not been overburdened by Omicron patients and that the new strain has not been detected in vaccinated persons. At the same time, the situation might be different for unvaccinated individuals.

    "We will only know this after two weeks. Yes, it is transmissible, but for now, as medical practitioners, we do not know why so much hype is being driven as we are still looking into it. We will only know after two to three weeks as there are some patients admitted and these are young people aged 40 and younger", Coetzee added.

    The chairwoman also criticised the decision by some countries to ban flights from South Africa as premature, because there is not enough information on how dangerous it is.
    Following the reports about the new strain, the United States, the European Union, Canada, Israel, Australia, and other countries have restricted travel from several southern African nations over health concerns.

    The World Health Organisation (WHO) on Friday indentified the new South African strain as one of concern, as it is reported to carry a high number of mutations — 32 — which possibly makes it more transmissible and dangerous. The WHO has dubbed it Omicron, the 15th letter of the Greek alphabet.


    https://sputniknews.com/20211127/south-african-medical-association-says-omicron-variant-causes-mild-disease-1091062923.html


    Also picked up by ZH

    https://www.zerohedge.com/covid-19/omicron-variant-first-detected-four-people-who-were-fully-vaccinated

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    sundoesntrise


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    Post  sundoesntrise Sun Nov 28, 2021 12:12 am

    JohninMK wrote:
    sundoesntrise wrote:
    No you dummy, this never ends.

    I can see you haven't been here long. On most forums calling a Mod a "dummy" is usually, like snakes and ladders, a quick route to the exit or a ban.

    Might I suggest, if you wish to stay, that you revise your comment.


    I agree. But you can't deny that his antics are worthy of being called a dummy. And you should also take into account that he has accused me of being a 1. Clown 2. Danger to society 3. Idiot. By association,  usually. And probably lots of other things as well, although I hardly ever read his comments beyond the first two paragraphs.

    Not that I really care bytheway. He can call me anything under the sun and I would lose a second of sleep over it. In fact it's somewhat of a badge of honor. Judge a man by his enemies and all that.

    Seriously who in his right mind will at this point in time still defend Big Pharma and their tricks? We are talking about straight up malice. Close to 30 percent excess death visa vis a vis 2020 in The Netherlands. Talking about social responsibility while standing on a pile of dead children's bodies is exactly what it looks like


    A better topic for discussion would be on the role of mods on a board. On other boards mods usually have a hands off approach and do not take active part in discussions. Just like the referee in a football match isn't part of the game either.
    JohninMK
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    Post  JohninMK Sun Nov 28, 2021 12:29 am

    Brave man.

    Explosive Interview, UK Cardiologist Highlights Link Between mRNA Vaccines and Heart Disease, While Noting Researchers Withholding Data Fearful of Losing Funding
    November 27, 2021 | Sundance | 180 Comments

    Dr. Aseem Malhotra exposes a link between mRNA vaccines and heart disease in an explosive British news broadcast. Mahotra also outlines other scientific studies that have confirmed the link between Acute Coronary Syndrome (ACS) in the aftermath of taking the vaccine, but the researchers are fearful to report them.

    Dr. Malhotra is referencing his own empirical findings with a currently circulating study by renowned cardiologist Dr. Steven Gundry. The most important element of the discussion is ongoing research reflecting data showing the COVID-19 Pfizer and Moderna mRNA vaccines “dramatically increase” a common measure of heart risk in people.

    The recently published “warning” in the journal Circulation by cardiologist Dr. Steven Gundry, known as a pioneer in infant heart transplant surgery, is having reverberations around the cardiology community. Gundry’s analysis was presented at the recent meeting of the American Heart Association. “We conclude that the mRNA vacs dramatically increase inflammation on the endothelium and T cell infiltration of cardiac muscle and may account for the observations of increased thrombosis, cardiomyopathy, and other vascular events following vaccination.”

    Within the British media interview, Dr. Malhotra cites these studies and his own research to say governments should immediately stop mandating the vaccines, and instead allow patients and doctors to determine the health risk factors. Here’s the interview:



    The PULS (Protein Unstable Lesion Signature) test measures the most clinically significant protein biomarkers that leak from cardiac lesions in the blood vessel walls, providing a measure of the body’s immune system response to arterial injury.

    The Gundy study, published 8 November 2021, included 566 patients, aged 28 to 97 years, in a preventive cardiology practice. Participants included men and women in equal proportions. All participants have received a PULS Cardiac Test every 3-6 months for 8 years, including “post-vaccination.”

    The PULS Cardiac Test measures multiple protein biomarkers and uses the results to calculate a 5-year risk score for new ACS. From pre-Covid injection to post-Covid injection, the 5-year ACS PULS risk score increased from 11% to 25%.


    https://theconservativetreehouse.com/blog/2021/11/27/explosive-interview-uk-cardiologist-highlights-link-between-mrna-vaccines-and-heart-disease-while-noting-researchers-withholding-data-fearful-of-losing-funding/
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    sundoesntrise


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    Post  sundoesntrise Sun Nov 28, 2021 12:37 am

    https://www.unz.com/mwhitney/i-believe-we-are-facing-an-evil-that-has-no-equal-in-human-history/

    Riley Waggaman over at unz.com connecting the dots and explaining who is who and what is what.

    Russia not very based.

    There are several Russian COVID vaccines. Sputnik V, developed by the ministry of health’s Gamaleya Center, is by far the most commonly used drug, and so it’s the one that deserves the most scrutiny. Sputnik V is based on Gamaleya’s human adenovirus vector platform (Ad26 and Ad5), which is designed to transport genetic material into cells. If you examine the patent for Gamaleya’s influenza shot (which is posted on Sputnik V’s official website), the technology now being used for Sputnik V is openly referred to as a “genetic vaccine.”… Interestingly, Gamaleya’s director, Alexander Gintsburg, said there are no “significant” differences between Sputnik V and AstraZeneca’s vaccine.

    A common claim made by Russian officials and the media is that there is no reason to worry about Sputnik V’s long-term safety because it is based on Gamaleya’s “proven” human adenovirus platform. The problem with this argument is that before Sputnik V, Gamaleya had repeatedly failed to bring a “genetic vaccine” to market. One attempt resulted in an embezzlement scandal, while other prototypes were never submitted for formal approval—suggesting they lacked the necessary safety and efficacy data to get the greenlight from regulators.

    In terms of safety, how does Sputnik V’s stack up against Pfizer’s shot and other mRNA vaccines? It’s difficult to say. Russia does not have a VAERS-like database for reporting suspected adverse events among the general public. In fact, there is no regularly updated, publicly available data on any post-vaccination complications in Russia. It seems the Russian government’s position is that they do not exist. But doctors and lawmakers tell a different story, one supported by an informal database of suspected vaccine-linked deaths. Undeterred, authorities have compared these concerned citizens to “terrorists” and are now threatening “anti-vax” doctors with fines and even prison time, in essence making any medical professional who questions the vaccine a suspected criminal in the eyes of the Russian government.

    There is another, equally alarming element to the Sputnik-mRNA vaccine comparison. There is now a huge body of evidence showing mRNA vaccines can cause serious side effects, and even death. But Sputnik V’s own developers openly support using Pfizer’s shot in Russia. Gamaleya’s Dmitry Shcheblyakov, who helped create Russia’s flagship jab, recently claimed there are clear “advantages” to mixing Sputnik V with “different vaccines made using different technologies.” Harvard-educated ex-Goldman Sachs banker Kirill Dmitriev, head of the Russian Direct Investment Fund (RDIF), which provides financing for Sputnik V, announced last month that joint research with Pfizer was already underway, and expressed confidence that a Sputnik/Pfizer cocktail will be a “very successful combination.” Similar “joint research” is reportedly being conducted with Moderna.

    There are also questions about who, or what, is actually behind Sputnik V. In May 2020, Russia’s largest bank, Sberbank, created a subsidiary—Immunotechnology LLC—to help “transfer technology” related to the vaccine. The CEO of Sberbank, Herman Gref, is part of JP Morgan’s International Council and is also a member of the World Economic Forum’s board of trustees. Gref claims he got the vaccine in April 2020—which would make him one of the first people in the world to be injected with Sputnik V (in fact, months before it was even known as “Sputnik V”).

    As Russians become increasingly worried about the “QR-ization” of their country, it’s worth noting that Sberbank is developing a QR code-based payment system, while Gref has been toying with the idea of creating a “Sbercoin” digital currency in partnership with JP Morgan.


    Gates definitely fits into the picture. Russia’s former health minister, Veronika Skvortosva, is a board member of the Global Preparedness Monitoring Board (GPMB). Created by the World Health Organization and World Bank, the GPMB has received generous funding from Gates (who is also a top contributor to the WHO, of course). Guess who else is on GPMB’s board? Anthony Fauci, as well as Chris Elias, President of the Bill & Melinda Gates’ Global Development Program. As RFK Jr. detailed in his newly released book, GPMB serves as

    '' 'the real-life authoritative collective for imposing rules during the upcoming pandemic. This so-called “independent” monitoring and accountability body’s purpose was to validate the imposition of police state controls by global and local political leaders and technocrats, endorsing their efforts to take the kind of harsh actions that Gates’s simulation modeled: subduing resistance, ruthlessly censoring dissent, isolating the healthy, collapsing economies, and compelling vaccination during a projected worldwide health crises.
    […]
    In June 2019, about twenty weeks before the start of the COVID pandemic, Dr. Michael Ryan, executive director of the WHO’s health emergencies program, summarized the conclusions of GPMB’s pandemic report, warning that “we are entering a new phase of high impact epidemics” that would constitute “a new normal” where governments worldwide would strengthen control and restrict the mobility of citizens.```


    Does any of that sound familiar?

    In January 2020, just a few months before the world was turned upside down by COVID lockdowns and restrictions, Skvortsova resigned as Russia’s health minister as part of a shake-up of Putin’s cabinet. A week later she was appointed the head of Russia’s federal biomedical agency (FMBA). As head of the FMBA, she played an integral role in the early days of Russia’s COVID response, and later produced data showing Moscow had been overwhelmed by the “Delta strain”. Her findings provided some much-needed “science” to justify the capital’s highly unpopular compulsory vaccine mandate. As health minister, Skvortsova presided over a years-long data manipulation scandal involving fraudulent mortality rates. The fraud was so blatant that the Russian government even admitted that their books were cooked (the country’s regional governors were blamed and thrown under the bus by Dmitry Medvedev).

    As for “COVID-triggered” economic restructuring: the Russian government has openly embraced the World Economic Forum’s Fourth Industrial Revolution. In October, the Russian government and the WEF signed a memorandum on the establishment of a Center for the Fourth Industrial Revolution in Russia. Russia has already adopted a law allowing for “experimental legal regimes” to allow corporations and institutions to deploy AI and robots into the economy, without being encumbered by regulatory red tape. Returning to Gref and his digital Sbercoin: Russia’s central bank is already planning to test-run a digital ruble that, among other nifty features, could be used to restrict purchases.

    Many are probably aware of UN Agenda 2030. Well, there is a Moscow 2030 plan, and it’s quite extraordinary. The blueprint for Russia’s capital calls for “genetic passports” that can be used to administer “gene therapies.” A document envisioning life in Moscow by the end of the decade also talks about “implanted medical digital devices” that can be used by insurance companies to calculate health insurance payments.
    It seems these ambitions won’t be limited to Moscow. In the last half of 2019, Russia’s State Duma commissioned a report to investigate the “conflict-free development” of a “new generation of technologies” (such as “genome editing”) in order to create a “new type of society.”

    Wherever Putin stands on this, surely he must realize that the Russian government is pursuing hugely unpopular policies, first with coercive vaccination, and now with the proposed QR-ization of the country.
    State Duma Deputy Deputy Mikhail Delyagin recently warned that the adoption of a nationwide digital health “ausweis” would amount to a “coup d’état” that would hand external management of the country over to “Big Tech and Big Pharma through the WHO.” The reason I bring this up is because, at least as I understood his comments, Delyagin does not believe Putin is directly involved in what is happening and fears the Russian president will end up taking the blame for any social and/or economic chaos that may lie ahead (Delyagin: “When these feral oligarchs come to power, when this feral medical mafia comes to power, Russia will not exist! There will be no one to defend Russia! If Putin signs this law, who will defend Putin? I’ll name two dozen, but what about the rest? Help yourself, protect yourself and Russia from a coup d’état!”). If this is the case, it is imperative to stop these dangerous, destabilizing policies before they spark serious upheaval in Russia.

    In truth, it’s hard to argue Putin is a clear ally in the fight against experimental drug mandates or the World Economic Forum’s twisted vision for the future. In January, the Russian president gave an address at the WEF in which he called for “expanding the scale of [COVID] testing and vaccinations” around the world. He went on to state that a “high-quality structure” must be created to help overcome “social imbalances” that have been exacerbated by the pandemic. “State budgets and central banks” should play a “key role” in quickly restoring the global and national economies, Putin explained.

    Isn’t this just a fancy way of saying Build Back Better?

    We desperately need open, frank dialogue about what is happening in Russia right now–discussions which are conspicuously absent in the vast majority of “indy media.” I don’t pretend to have all the answers, but I’m shocked that so few seem to be asking any questions.

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    kvs
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    Post  kvs Sun Nov 28, 2021 1:09 am

    Russia has a long standing systemic disease of parroting the west. It imported Marxism from the west too, BTW.

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    Post  kvs Sun Nov 28, 2021 2:26 am



    kvs
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    Post  kvs Sun Nov 28, 2021 2:37 am

    Masks are a placebo because nobody has perfect sealing like with a gas mask. So you are always ventilating through the edges. They help to reduce
    the ejection of phlegm aerosol but not to stop it since any serious sneeze or cough will exit through the sides. And two meters of separation will not be
    any sort of barrier for the aerosol that makes it out.

    The above video makes a mistake in thinking of airborne virus spread as consisting of individual virus particles. That is not how it works. Sneezing
    and coughing release droplets the smallest of which are still at least several microns in diameter but most are well over 10 microns and even going into
    the visible range. A 10 micron droplet can carry many more than 5,000 virus particles. The "face diapers" do stop the 10 micron droplets but that
    is not where they fail. Those droplets can land on your eyeballs and the transmission occurs there and not through your mouth and nose.





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    Post  LMFS Sun Nov 28, 2021 2:52 am

    After watching sad attempts of human beings like Schwab rejoicing at the opportunities COVID brings and herald the new industrial revolution based on genetic editing, one has to wonder whether our degenerated elites fancy using us as guinea pigs of the gene therapies they will, after many trials on us, use to finally differentiate themselves from the plebs. COVID and its arbitrary extension of mandatory vaccinations with mRNA jabs due to constantly renewing strains offers an ideal excuse for this. So sick, that it has probably some truth to it...

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    Post  kvs Sun Nov 28, 2021 3:24 am

    If this was about vaccination, then all sorts of classical style vaccines which do not engage in hijacking cellular RNA machinery would be used.
    There is no intrinsic superiority from the GMO "vaccines". They can quibble about dosage of viral antigens, but that is not the issue. So
    we have evidence of some other agenda. My speculation is that it consists of many tasks. One is a massive experiment to test the
    epigenetic dynamics. This has many long term uses. Another is to get people sick and have more billions feeding to Big Pharma.
    Pfizer and pals are seeing a massive windfall from the vaccination and booster racket. But having more cancer and heart damage
    patients is welcome.

    Stepping back, we are seeing herd management in action. The proles are nothing more than livestock.

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    Post  higurashihougi Sun Nov 28, 2021 4:33 am

    Chinese experts are confident that Beijing can cope with the new variant

    Zhong Nanshan, China’s top epidemiologist, made the above comment at a forum on November 27. He noted that COVID-19 vaccination is an effective way to prevent the virus from spreading, according to the newspaper Global Times.

    Currently, about 76.8% of China’s population has been vaccinated with a full dose of the COVID-19 vaccine, laying a good foundation for the country to achieve the target of 80% vaccination to achieve herd immunity by the end of the year, Chung said. year 2021.

    The Omicron variant is thought to have up to 32 mutations in the spike protein, raising concerns about the variant’s ability to evade vaccines and spread. The World Health Organization (WHO) says that several more weeks of research are needed to fully understand the new variant.

    However, according to the Global Times, Chinese experts believe that there is no need to panic because large numbers of mutations do not necessarily indicate high infectivity, and because “China, with its strict disease control and prevention system, has experience, can protect the people in the country from this new variant”.

    “A lot of information about this variant is still unclear, such as how many places the new variant has spread, how many serious infections or deaths. So there is no need to worry.” – Global Times quoted an unnamed immunologist in Beijing.

    In addition, the expert said that now that southern Africa is in the summer, there is very little chance of a serious outbreak.

    On November 27, Chinese biopharmaceutical company Sinovac Biotech said it was closely monitoring the Omicron variant. Sinovac said that it will launch research on the effects of the new variant on its inactivated vaccine.

    https://www.newsnpr.org/chinese-experts-are-confident-that-beijing-can-cope-with-the-new-variant/

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    Post  GarryB Sun Nov 28, 2021 5:38 am

    Haha I can totally envision Garryb ferociously scrolling through that report in a last facesaving ditch to save his crumbling worldview.

    You mean like you and others are skimming the interweb looking for anything negative about vaccinations WITHOUT EVEN READING THEM PROPERLY, and rather than accept you were wrong when it is pointed out like in this case, you get all butt hurt and defensive.

    At least you are keeping an open mind.   pwnd

    A look into the world of Garryb. No decrease in transmission, a high number of severe short term adverse reactions, unknown long term reactions, 89 percent of the deceased in Scotland are vaccinated but the vaccine works. What's the superlative form of cognitive dissonance? I call it The Garry B.

    How about a look at the anti vaxxer world... the third world will take over because obviously they can't afford or are not allowed the superior population control drugs... sorry western vaccines that will ultimately destroy the human race... we haven't beaten the normal flu what sort of idiot thinks Covid is going away any time soon?  What... fifth wave in Europe now? In two years? At least the normal flu is once a year in winter... but who cares because Covid is just the flu anyway.


    Would be interesting, bytheway, to scroll back up 6 months in this thread. No doubt Garryb was at that point in time claiming that the vaccine would end this whole circus. And how dumb it was of you not to believe that. The Overton Window keeps moving and shapeshifter Garryb just moves with in. Like a little doggie that keeps running back to owner after being left outside in the cold. Woof woof.

    Why not go back 6 months and actually read what I was saying then... instead just inuendo and calling me a dog.

    No you dummy, this never ends. It ends when you are either in your casket or choking on a cricket burger, with no property, sterile and a police boot in your neck.

    Forever.

    I am vaccinated.... I don't care what you do. I have done all I can to protect myself from this virus. Continue to save the world by posting bullshit you don't even read properly on the internet... I am sure your family and friends will thank you for that.

    Very concerning reports coming out of Canada where in several hospitals the number of stillborn (third trimester) has increased dramatically. Click on the link and scroll a bit down. In one hospital in Waterloo, Ontario this year there have been 86 stillborns between January and July. Usually that number is around 5-6. That's a whopping 2900 percent increase. Garryb will now tell you that he wants you to take the vaccine to 'keep us all safe'

    Yeah, very concerning for our members except KVS who thinks these deaths prove his position is correct. Except the percentage of pregnant women and unborn children who are members of this forum is as big as your IQ.

    I realise abusing members is against the rules but dummy dogs don't have to follow rules you know.

    It is clear by now that health is not the agenda with this covid-vax absurdity. The fake stream media is using the exact
    same hyperbolic language to describe the omicron strain. (They skipped over the xi strain, LOL).

    Obviously this virus was created by China so the Xi strain, as well as the Biden and Putin strains will slip under the radar and they will focus on the potent and most dangerous and most contagious strains as their priority.

    Morons are expected to believe that mutation = virulence.

    Or perhaps instead they are not focusing on mutation and are focusing instead on virulence, so the less virulent Xi strain is not talked about, while much more virulent strains are given extra attention and are mentioned in warnings like the delta variant was.

    New super duper scary variant (which will likely be the whip to bring hundreds of millions of people into starvation/desperation) was first observed in 4 fully vaccinated Botswanean individuals.

    And that is the fun part because vaccinated people can still carry the virus, but the vaccination will make the virus less dangerous to us, but when it reaches an anti vaxxer then you are going to find yourself wide open to its attack...

    Next step is concentration camps for those who "do not want to participate in society". Rotten collectivist
    "logic".

    When vaccinated people can carry the virus then unvaccinated people needs to be kept apart and isolated from those vaccinated people for their own safety... and in most countries where the vaccinated are the majority it makes sense for the unvaccinated to be isolated and locked down rather than those that took the precaution... even the risk of getting vaccinated.

    The South Africans are saying that whilst it might be fast spreading it isn't much of a problem.

    If that is the case then open the borders and let that variant spread and create herd immunity... catching that version of the virus and being a little unwell for a couple of days is easier than vaccinations or any other precautions...

    Not unprecedented... parents often have measles parties to infect children with the disease at a time when it is the least damaging and dangerous.

    But you can't deny that his antics are worthy of being called a dummy.

    How about a week break to reconsider things... more than two paragraphs in to my post so you might not notice, but your lack of ability to post will let you know soon enough.

    Judge a man by his enemies and all that.

    Best advice I ever got was to pick my battles... I am an enemy of yours so lets make it two weeks.

    Seriously who in his right mind will at this point in time still defend Big Pharma and their tricks?

    Perhaps taking the time to actually read all of each post you might notice I don't defend any big pharma companies, but then cherry picking seems to be your thing.


    A better topic for discussion would be on the role of mods on a board. On other boards mods usually have a hands off approach and do not take active part in discussions. Just like the referee in a football match isn't part of the game either.

    I joined this board because of my interest in the subject, I was not made a mod till much later... Try a game of soccer without a ref... you end up with fights and chaos.

    Riley Waggaman over at unz.com connecting the dots and explaining who is who and what is what.

    Russia not very based.

    Now the anti Russian bullshit begins...

    Russia has a long standing systemic disease of parroting the west. It imported Marxism from the west too, BTW.

    Aww come on... it is Putins fault and he is part of the global conspiracy... he is colluding with the rich and the powerful... well that is consistent because he has been doing that for decades... he is obviously a trojan horse for the west to focus on, except it was supposed to make the west strong and instead it made Russia and China strong so now it is plan B... introduce unsafe new vaccines to slash the worlds population so the rich and powerful can start again.

    What a load of bullshit.

    Masks are a placebo because nobody has perfect sealing like with a gas mask. So you are always ventilating through the edges. They help to reduce
    the ejection of phlegm aerosol but not to stop it since any serious sneeze or cough will exit through the sides. And two meters of separation will not be
    any sort of barrier for the aerosol that makes it out.

    Masks stop you from touching your nose 40 times a day and then contaminating everything else you touch with your contaminated hands. It also dramatically reduces the chance of you spitting on someone and them spitting on you in conversation or during the very occasional cough or sneeze...

    If you are coughing and sneezing then you should be self isolating at home.

    COVID and its arbitrary extension of mandatory vaccinations with mRNA jabs due to constantly renewing strains offers an ideal excuse for this. So sick, that it has probably some truth to it...

    Except the power structures and oligarchs are what they are... if it wasn't Covid, then it would be something else... funding and exploration into such things is inevitable because if they don't then there is a chance someone else will and get an advantage over them...

    Stepping back, we are seeing herd management in action. The proles are nothing more than livestock.

    Well when the general public accept what has been done to them without a wimper then who is really to blame... 60% of the population really don't care about anything.
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    Post  lancelot Sun Nov 28, 2021 6:46 am

    Russians have other options than Sputnik-V. There are approved peptide vaccines and inactivated vaccines as well.
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    Post  higurashihougi Sun Nov 28, 2021 7:33 am

    https://www.globaltimes.cn/page/202111/1240060.shtml

    China would have 630,000 daily cases if it adopts the US-style prevention and control approach: CDC report

    China's CDC website published a weekly report titled "On Coexistence with COVID-19: Estimations and Perspectives". It says that if the flawed US-style coronavirus prevention & control method were adopted by China, there would be 630,000 daily infection in this country.

    Of the daily 630,000 positive cases, 10,000 would suffer from severe illnesses, which would overwhelm China's medical care system and cause a catastrophe in the country, according to the report published Wednesday on the website of the Chinese Center for Disease Control and Prevention, China's CDC.

    Researchers said, in this article, they used the real-world pandemic scenario in the following countries: the US, the UK, Israel, Spain, and France, as a reference group to evaluate the corresponding potential consequences if pandemic response strategies in the aforementioned countries were to be adopted in China.

    The findings have raised a clear warning that, for the time being, China is not ready to embrace "open-up" strategies resting solely on the hypothesis of herd immunity induced by vaccination which is being advocated by certain Western countries. More efficient vaccinations or more specific treatment, preferably the combination of both, are needed before entry-exit quarantine measures and other COVID-19 response strategies in China can be safely lifted, reads the article.

    At the opening ceremony of the China Internet Media Forum in Guangzhou, South China's Guangdong Province on Thursday, China's top respiratory expert Zhong Nanshan said that some Western countries attach great importance to individual freedom. They have the freedom not to wear masks, the freedom to assemble and the freedom not to get vaccinated. But the result is the spread of the disease, and large numbers of infections and deaths.


    "But in the fight against global public health events, China pays attention to the highest human rights: the right to life, and more importantly, the right to health. People wear masks, consciously limit their activities and cooperate with nucleic acid testing to reduce the spread of the virus.

    "The rate of COVID-19 patients in China is 8.9 per 100,000 people, which is only 1/1,678 the rate of the US, and the mortality rate is 0.4 per 100,000 people, which is 1/606 of the US," Zhong said.

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    Post  LMFS Sun Nov 28, 2021 12:28 pm

    GarryB wrote:Except the power structures and oligarchs are what they are... if it wasn't Covid, then it would be something else... funding and exploration into such things is inevitable because if they don't then there is a chance someone else will and get an advantage over them...

    It is still one of the worst crimes ever, and deserves being remembered as that

    @kvs:

    agree, it is not about vaccination out of public health concerns but a political agenda, look (if all compared data was not enough) what the Hungarian FM has to say about the EU refusal of Sputnik-V:

    https://www.rt.com/news/541531-sputnik-vaccine-hungary-minister-interview/
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    Post  higurashihougi Sun Nov 28, 2021 2:52 pm

    @kvs and Mir: The problem of your approach is that you are over-obsessed with the theory of "grand secret experiment" or whatever. In fact we do not need to use any conspiracy theory or "grand experiment", but the basic notions of capitalist economy and the drive of profit is enough to understand the issue you propose.

    First, the pandemic create the huge demands for vaccination which means this is a huge market with huge profit for the Big Pharma. Then why should they not invest in vaccine development to get a huge profit from that ?

    Second, vaccination is an excuse for the capitalist enterprises to ignore other measures of disease control and prevention, like the requirement of social distance and sanitary of the workplaces and social places. The control and prevention method increase the cost, reduce the profit, and disrupt the circulation of goods and capital which is essential for the capitalist enterprises to make profit and to exist as capitalists.

    Third, Western propaganda against non-Western vaccines like Sputnik, Sinopharm, Soberana, Abdala... are simply because the Western Big Pharmas want to dominate the vaccine market. The recognization of Russia, China and Cuba vaccines means a sharp reduce of the market share for the Western Big Pharmas, which are critical for their profit and their existence as capitalists.

    Fourth, it is not the matter of personal or political freedom when enforcing the policy of social distance, face mask, hygiene, vaccination, or other necessary methods. This is a highly contagious disease which can cause significant human casualties and damages to the medical system if the outbreaks go unchecked. You are not allow to spread the Covid virus to other people, it is the human rights to be alive, to be healthy and to be protected from diseases.

    Fifth, it is possible to maintain economic activities and economic growth without dropping the serious control and prevention of the disease. China is the prime example of successful zero-covid at the national level. There are other examples at the regional level where the local enterprises successfully perform the "three in-situ model" to maintain the factory production without the risk of Covid infection, of course at the expense of increased expenditure and investment.

    Sixth, it is impossible to perform Zero-Covid under the capitalist regimes. Because (a) the capitalist prefer Profit over People and anything disrupt the flow of capital must be destroyed, even at the expense of human lives and (b) the typical anarchy of economic organization at the society level under capitalism, where economic activities are based on the personal profit of individual capitalism, rather than the common interest of the society at a whole.

    Countries like China or the Soviet Union are able to perform the ZeroCovid-like policies because the economy are more centralized under the strong influence of the proletariat dictatorship. The Central is able to mobilize and divert huge resources from the society to maintain the welfare, humanitarian aids, financial assistance, and the measures of sanitary and social distance to both combat the pandemic and maintain the production as much as possible. Proletariat dictatorship also means that economic and political efforts are requires the mutual trust cooperation between the grassroot organizations and the government, including proper education, information and explanation from the government to the local people, and the voluntary information provision from the local people to the government to effectively monitor the pandemic situation.\

    Remember how the Chinese railway system are maintained and enlarged for the sake of the common good although it generate no profit ? Or how China are willing to enforce a crackdown against huge corporations to fulfill her social goals ? You will very unlikely to see such bold moves in capitalist countries.

    The reason why Covid is spreaded as it has been, is because the inherent flaw of capitalism, where the politics and economy are driven by the selfish profit of individual capitalists.


    Last edited by higurashihougi on Sun Nov 28, 2021 3:06 pm; edited 1 time in total
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    Post  kvs Sun Nov 28, 2021 2:58 pm

    And you are over obsessed with filtering reality through some Mickey Mouse ideological lens.

    You cherry pick the facts to serve your ideology. You are not worth the time of day.

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    Post  LMFS Sun Nov 28, 2021 5:54 pm

    I don't really like "conspiranoic" approaches, the problem is their stubborn tendency to predict future events much more accurately than "correctly thinking" people do Rolling Eyes
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    Post  kvs Sun Nov 28, 2021 10:43 pm

    LMFS wrote:I don't really like "conspiranoic" approaches, the problem is their stubborn tendency to predict future events much more accurately than "correctly thinking" people do Rolling Eyes

    As they say, just because you are paranoid does not mean that they are not out to get you. Tin foil hat schizophrenics can be right just on the
    basis that humans have been conspiring since before they learned how to walk. For example, chimps engage in armed warfare with each other.
    Bears and wolves do not do this.

    My approach is to actually follow the science. There is no scientific basis for foisted mRNA wonder cures on the public and denying them
    access to other vaccine types. The warnings about mRNA wonder cures have been made by real experts since the beginning, including
    the head designer of Pfizer's product. These warnings are being confirmed with peer reviewed research studies and by obvious increases
    in heart complications among athletes. It is pure tin foil inanity to ignore and deny this, which the supposedly non "conspiracy theory"
    MSM is doing. The same MSM that routinely spreads tin foil hat conspiracy theories about Russia.

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    Post  GarryB Mon Nov 29, 2021 7:39 am

    Well you are fucked then.

    How do you propose defeating Pfizer and the Bill Gates of the world... they have all the power and control the worlds food supply and international commerce... they could put these nanoparticles in anything and everything and soon they will just be able to pick a person and switch them off...

    Except with all your ramblings you never mention why.

    Almost said a shame Vann is not here but he was as vague and evasive about this stuff when questioned as you are... it is OK to say you don't know, but in this case a massive global conspiracy that now includes Putin as one of the obvious ringleaders is falling apart.... why would criminal big powerful Pharma companies want to reduce the worlds population... the more people there are the more they suffer and they treat suffering with billions of dollars in I don't want to feel anything any more Pills... their sales in the US are eye watering... why kill even one of them and lose that junkie?

    I mostly agree with higurashihougi, but would add that the normal scientific approach to contagious diseases has not suddenly radically changed.... there are lots of places in the world where if you want to visit you need to get your shots, and if someone contracted Anthrax or Ebola then no one would blink an eye to masks and isolation, but it seems we humans think the flu is just a headache and sore joints and a day or two off work, and for a lot of people that is exactly what it is, but for todays society there are a large number of people who would normally not have survived at this point, but science and medicine have extended their lives but their conditions and age make them vulnerable to this new version of a flu.

    I am not wearing a mask or following isolation rules or vaccination jabs for myself... I did it because I want things to return to normal as quickly as possible.

    If you get a bacterial infection and your doctor gives you a course of antibiotics it is expected that you take the full course and not just stop taking them when you feel better because if the infection is not completely destroyed then it can come back and become resistant to that sort of antibiotic.

    Pissing around arguing about this vaccine or that vaccine is taking your antibiotic and then stopping when you feel better and the result is going to cost us all because when it comes back it will be different and existing cures will be less effective or might not even work at all.

    You can claim it is all a conspiracy by the big drug companies to get us addicted, but lots of diseases are unheard of in the west because everyone got vaccinated and it died out... but the flu is something special... I suspect most young healthy people hope they get it because it is a legitimate few days off work... but if everyone took things seriously it would likely not be a problem either.

    Sadly the linking of Covid with the flu has led to plenty of people thinking it is nothing despite being a very different virus that could be doing who knows what to people.

    Note we have not heard from Aristide for a while...

    Conspiracy theories are often entertaining, but then that is why we like Bond movies.... the problem occurs when you take them seriously.
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    Post  kvs Tue Nov 30, 2021 3:55 am



    Getting infected and recovering is the best defense against covid. No vaccine and no booster can compete.

    The only people who should be taking vaccines (safe ones) are those at risk of serious symptoms and death.
    That is, those with progressed metabolic syndrome.

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    Post  higurashihougi Tue Nov 30, 2021 10:26 am

    The best defense against covid is not getting infected from the beginning.

    Preventine healthcare is created not for encouraging people to getting infected using the excuse of "natural immunity".

    Claiming that covid is just a flu and rejecting the measures of pandemic control is a crime against humanity.

    Enforcing the measurements of pandemic control is neither tyranny nor violation of your personal freedom. It is protecting you from the irresponsible people who can turn all of your cautioness into naught.

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    Post  Sujoy Tue Nov 30, 2021 1:07 pm

    India decided to export vaccines even before 10% of the eligible population was vaccinated and India was hit with the DELTA variant by the US and UK.

    Now South Africa refused the dodgy vaccine manufactured by Pfizer and they have been hit by the OMICRON variant by the US and UK.

    Observe how BRICS member states except for China has been the worst hit by COVID-19. This was done on purpose.
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    Post  Mir Tue Nov 30, 2021 8:41 pm

    higurashihougi wrote:The best defense against covid is not getting infected from the beginning.

    Preventine healthcare is created not for encouraging people to getting infected using the excuse of "natural immunity".

    Claiming that covid is just a flu and rejecting the measures of pandemic control is a crime against humanity.

    Enforcing the measurements of pandemic control is neither tyranny nor violation of your personal freedom. It is protecting you from the irresponsible people who can turn all of your cautioness into naught.

    Our natural way of being is to expose ourselves to all sorts of stuff. We touch things all the time. We put things in our mouth well before we can even walk. That is how we develop our own natural immune system. Look at all the covid spikes so far. Infection rates are skyrocketing with each spike - despite all the vaccines. Keep on living the unnatural life. Wear a mask 24/7 if you wish. Disinfect yourself every 5 minutes. Keep isolating yourself from others. Take the jabs every other month or so. Live the new normal.

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    Post  Mir Tue Nov 30, 2021 8:51 pm

    Sujoy wrote:India decided to export vaccines even before 10% of the eligible population was vaccinated and India was hit with the DELTA variant by the US and UK.

    Now South Africa refused the dodgy vaccine manufactured by Pfizer and they have been hit by the OMICRON variant by the US and UK.

    Observe how BRICS member states except for China has been the worst hit by COVID-19. This was done on purpose.

    South Africa is NOT refusing Pfizer at all BUT they have to get rid of it as it is going to expire SOON - BECAUSE people don't want to take these jabs anymore. The government is so desperate here that started to offer around $7 for a person to take the jab!!!!!!

    Then a new South African strain suddenly popped up out of the blue lol!

    Now there's a new, even scarier, variant!

    It is so deadly that it has no symptoms and doesn't do anything to anybody. It's so devious, in fact, that perfectly healthy individuals remain perfectly healthy individuals.

    That's how deadly it is.

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