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    Coronavirus pandemic 2019-20

    George1
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    Post  George1 on Mon Feb 03, 2020 1:16 pm

    i saw no topic for this even it takes global dimension

    Death toll increases. Russia send aid

    https://tass.com/society/1115611

    also conspiracy theories arose as usual in such cases (possible biological weapon)


    Last edited by George1 on Thu Apr 02, 2020 3:39 am; edited 1 time in total
    magnumcromagnon
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    Post  magnumcromagnon on Mon Feb 03, 2020 9:40 pm

    George1 wrote:i saw no topic for this even it takes global dimension

    Death toll increases. Russia send aid

    https://tass.com/society/1115611

    also conspiracy theories arose as usual in such cases (possible biological weapon)


    The Pandemonium all around seems extremely exaggerated and unwarranted...lets just look at the facts:

    It's officially been 2 months and a maximum numbers of deaths (in China) has risen to 362. In the US during the year (2017-2018) 88,000 people died to the flu virus. 362 deaths total over the past 2 months from the corona virus translates to 181 deaths per month. Lets compare that to 88,000 total flu deaths in the US, divide that number by 12 (for the months in a year) and you have 7,333.3 deaths per month compared to 181 deaths per month. Another factor is population total of the two respective countries (US and China). China has approximately 5 times the population that the US has, that also skews the numbers to a certain degree.

    In short, like the Bird flu, SARS, etc. its impact is grotesquely exaggerated (like everything else) by the media.
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    Post  Hole on Mon Feb 03, 2020 10:04 pm

    "Simple" flu kills between 290.000 and 650.000 people a year.
    The hot summer in 2004 killed tens of thousands of (mostly old) people in Europe alone.

    This virus is "new". You get viewers and clicks. Ad revenues. Because it isn´t accepted yet as "normal". Let´s say this virus comes back each year and kills some 2.000 - 3.000 people every time, in 10 or even 5 years nobody will be talking about it any more.
    kvs
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    Post  kvs on Mon Feb 03, 2020 11:00 pm

    This coronavirus outbreak is worse than SARS.

    Also, this mutation appears to have HIV/SIV features and is amenable to treatment with AIDS drugs. The coronavirus is a retrovirus
    so it is plausible we have seen incorporation of HIV into its genome thanks to the ability of retroviruses to share RNA and DNA fragments with
    their hosts and with other retroviruses.

    In my view a consistent story is coming out in both the AIDS case and this case. A "bush meat" consumption environment has allowed
    an efficient jumping of critical DNA features from species to species. Even though this happens to some extent all the time, the scale of
    the viral evolution is on whole other level under the right conditions.

    BTW, the Chinese do have disgusting eating habits. They mix their animist faith system with their food intake and consume all sorts
    of ridiculous foods like live monkey brains, live rat offspring and assorted other foods that enable rapid viral transmission. Tiger penis anyone?

    George1
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    Post  George1 on Mon Feb 24, 2020 11:29 am

    First cases Italy (152 people affected with 3 dead) , so virus hit Europe also
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    Post  nomadski on Tue Feb 25, 2020 7:17 pm

    I am not so sure, this is just natural outbreak of virus. Years ago I was talking about how a country could hypothetically use biological weapon against enemy. The conditions are that it's own population get vaccinated in secret, either before outbreak. Or after infection by available anti - viral drugs. Then they release the virus. If you look, the statistics of mortality are very strange. No deaths in Anglo countries or Europe.  Or allies of Yank. Apart from so far Italy. Did Italy buy Chinese too much? They were part of belt and road plan of China. But  also deaths in China and Iran........ What is going on?  Are Anglos superhuman? Or did they get vaccine, before biological warfare..... OMG.....

    https://www.ecdc.europa.eu/en/geographical-distribution-2019-ncov-cases

    Did Yanks and Co do large scale vaccination recently. Why don't they die? Also rate of infection in India and USA very low. Rate of infection in India should be ten times that of Iran. Around 1000. With tens of people dead. But India a market for USA and competitor for China. Same for USA, rate of infection should be about 300. Since much contact with China. Russia very low rate, could be because sub zero. Virus can not survive. But Africa should show much higher.......... The WHO said recently that many outbreaks no known origin in China. This suggests virus outbreaks from independent sources. Targeted........
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    Post  DerWolf on Tue Feb 25, 2020 9:35 pm

    The mainstream media was fast to blame chineses which eat bats or snakes, but think about it, they have been eating them for thousent of years and nothing happened until now.

    Most likely is a bioweapon.
    nomadski
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    Post  nomadski on Tue Feb 25, 2020 10:27 pm

    Agree. It is undetectable without symptoms, while being transmitted. Higher kill rate than flu. And as KVS mentioned, looks like it's DNA, is engineered out of existing unrelated diseases. And it looks like the Yanks have stockpiled anti - viral medication to treat this particular strand. That is why they don't die. I remember after 9/11, they said on TV, that they had stockpiled medication in case of chemical or biological or nuclear attack. And they injected their troops with a cocktail of this shit, before sending into Iraq, against Saddam. And as we know CIA also released Anthrax, after 9/11. To blame Saddam and cause panic and help start war against WMD.  So this time they may have gone a little further. I hope Chinese scientists study this RNA, and see where it come from. As you said they have had this diet for long time...... We need biological warfare defence unit in Iran and China... I bet this corona virus is genetic engineered. So that after a few generations, it mutates and becomes inert. This way it is limited in transmission. Only affects limited population. Does not spread to country of origin  easily..........If so we should see a sudden drop in cases, without explanation. Rather than gradual drop.....
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    Post  GarryB on Wed Feb 26, 2020 2:45 am

    Well normally I would say tinfoil hat theory, but to be honest... it is the sort of thing the Americans and British would do... during the 50s and 60s they drove vans through their own cities releasing flu virus and other things and monitored the local hospitals to determine spread rates and patterns so they could assess the effectiveness of bio weapons on an enemy. Who knows how many of their own people they killed for that information.

    They offered amnesty to Japanese doctors who tested all sorts of bio and chemical weapons on prisoners because they wanted access to the information... ie take 500 prisoners and infect them all with something... after a week kill 10 and do an autopsy to see how the disease has progressed and every week kill 10 more for the duration of the experiment and then kill any remaining to check the progression, or to see why they weren't effected... really nasty stuff as bad as anything the Germans did, but they got away with it.

    The only thing is that if it was a targeted bio weapon I would expect a much higher kill rate... the transmission rate is clearly good enough... perhaps better than most, but its kill rate is too low to be an effective weapon of war... even in peace time.
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    Post  nomadski on Wed Feb 26, 2020 10:40 am

    It will be great if you could supply link to British experiments. Will make interesting reading. I guess in the second paragraph, you refer to Japan doing experiments on Chinese POW , during occupation. But also that the British granted amnesty in exchange for info.

    The Russians, I believe disbanded bio weapon facility. And chemical weapon facility. After the soviet Union. But I think America is still carrying on with bio weapon programme. Has stockpiles. Why CIA Pompeo interested in virus infection rate in Iran? Did they expect higher rate of infection? Also I am not sure that a bio weapon effectiveness can simply be that it kills. Because it will have low transmission rate. Also an enemy can be more damaged by being forced to look after the sick in hospitals. I think this is the way many weapon designers, design weapons. To injure, rather than to kill. Iranians must develop bio - weapon and bio-defence. If this could have been real attack. And no longer a tin foil hat theory, sadly we need this.

    Even if this virus outbreak is not a bio weapon. Still the mortality rate difference can not easily be explained. Other than existing medications in the west. Medications that do not exist in Iran. Because of the sanctions. Iranians said that they will have to make anti - viral medications to fight corona virus. So whichever way we look at it, we are facing genocide. By dispersing virus or by keeping away medication. The Anglos have not changed much, since they last killed 90 million native American tribes, by distributing blankets, infected with small pox.
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    Post  andalusia on Wed Feb 26, 2020 9:50 pm

    Could the Coronavirus outbreak have been a US bio weapon attack on China? Read this: https://www.unz.com/article/was-the-2020-wuhan-coronavirus-an-engineered-biological-attack-on-china-by-america-for-geopolitical-advantage/
    George1
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    Post  George1 on Thu Feb 27, 2020 12:02 am

    andalusia wrote:Could the Coronavirus outbreak have been a US bio weapon attack on China? Read this: https://www.unz.com/article/was-the-2020-wuhan-coronavirus-an-engineered-biological-attack-on-china-by-america-for-geopolitical-advantage/

    it could but it has no logic

    1. china could respond by the same way and make also a bio-weapon against USA or western countries
    2. the virus is being spread and affects USA also as among other countries
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    Post  kvs on Thu Feb 27, 2020 3:01 am

    George1 wrote:
    andalusia wrote:Could the Coronavirus outbreak have been a US bio weapon attack on China? Read this: https://www.unz.com/article/was-the-2020-wuhan-coronavirus-an-engineered-biological-attack-on-china-by-america-for-geopolitical-advantage/

    it could but it has no logic

    1. china could respond by the same way and make also a bio-weapon against USA or western countries

    Western deciders think that the west is so far advanced compared to the rest of the planet that they can get
    away with anything.


    2. the virus is being spread and affects USA also as among other countries

    This is unavoidable. The question is how many millions of Americans will die compared to Chinese. We will only know
    this in the future.

    https://www.zerohedge.com/health/coronavirus-hiv-mutation-suggests-nearly-1000x-more-likely-sars-infect

    That is smoking gun proof of meddling. The corona virus is not as mutation prone as the influenza virus. So it could
    not have mutated enough since Sars to have achieved such a capability. Even the flu does not vector to infinity
    this way.



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    Post  GarryB on Thu Feb 27, 2020 6:31 am

    Well if the US was going to use a genetic weapon then the Chinese are the clear choice because they are less capable to retaliate than say the Russians would be.

    I am surprised they haven't used a genetic bio engineered weapon against Palestinians... perhaps that is plan B to the deal of the century...


    Isn't it ironic... in the US movies it is the evil AI.... Skynet that attacks the Russians knowing that their retaliation will destroy its human enemies in the west... what irony that it is not machines but the elite 1% that are likely wanting to start a bio war to try and thin the human population on all sides... we will get confirmation when an Indian targeted virus is released...
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    Post  Aristide on Thu Feb 27, 2020 8:06 pm

    A publication of french pharma giant Sanofi says that the death rate of the Virus is 20 to 30 times higher on east asians than on europeans.

    The Virus attachs to a specific receptor ACE2, which Asians have much more than Europeans.

    "Comparative genetic analysis of the novel coronavirus (2019-nCoV/SARS-CoV-2) receptor ACE2 in different populations

    The East Asian populations have much higher AFs in the eQTL variants associated with higher ACE2 expression in tissues (Fig. 1c), which may suggest different susceptibility or response to 2019-nCoV/SARS-CoV-2 from different populations under the similar conditions."

    This explains why the Virus in Europe is rather mild and only proved to be fatal for very old or already weak people, while it ravages through China and kills mostly younger and middle aged population. The hardest hit group in China are men between 20 and 39.

    The Virus itself proves to be fatal for China on all fronts. It has a extremly high infection rate, over 6 times more infectious than the flu and a a very high lethality between 3 and 5%.

    But its not just the Virus itself but another process which could already be seen in African countries 2014 during the Ebola outbreak. Social life collapses.

    In China that means that entire cities with millions of people are cut off and put into quarantine. Chinas industrial production has grinded to a halt. Plants are closed, workers send home. Transport lines and production lines cut off.

    The damage done to Chinas industry is unmeassurable now but could spiral high into trillions of €.

    The leadership of China appears unable to contain the Virus from spreading further and further. Sanofi said a vaccine can be expected not sooner than in a year.

    The renomee of the Communist Party and Xi Yinping himself got badly damaged already, since they appear to be unable to stop this process that more and more paralyzes the country.

    To see how massive the effect is, one has to look on Chinas carbon emissions. China is world biggest carbon emittent nation and in just 2 weeks they dropped by 25%.

    In China alone, COVID-19 is estimated to have cut carbon emissions by 400 million tonnes, which is said to be the same amount of carbon emitted by the country in the first two weeks after its lunar year in 2019.

    A positive side effect is, that China in its panic banned all wild animal trade. Chinas ruthless animal trade is a massive problem for rare animals like Tigers, Rhinos and Turtles. The rare Pangolin for example was used in traditional chinese medicine and was considered most poached animal in the world. Since a study found out that the Virus most likely originated in the Pangolin, China banned all PAngolin trade, which might help to save this species.

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    Post  Isos on Thu Feb 27, 2020 9:50 pm

    Well I'm not an expert but the virus mutated from animal virus to human virus in China. So it adapted itself to attack people around so only chinese.

    It is natural. Europeans diseases proved to be fatal to americans during the american colonization.

    Also there are many virus present in many part of the world and make a family of viruses rather than be one virus because it is not exactly the same everywhere.

    I guess some will jump to the conclusion that it is an biological attack. Even if we have no proof it wasn't one.


    At the speed Italy is being infected and the numbers of infected we will probably see a mutation of the virus and we will talk of the european coronavirus.
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    Post  jhelb on Wed Mar 04, 2020 9:40 pm

    magnumcromagnon wrote:
    In short, like the Bird flu, SARS, etc. its impact is grotesquely exaggerated (like everything else) by the media.

    Observe that more than 10 years after it was first reported there is still no Vaccine available for SARS.

    I'm not sure if SARS or Coronavirus is curable.
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    Post  Aristide on Wed Mar 04, 2020 9:58 pm

    jhelb wrote:
    magnumcromagnon wrote:
    In short, like the Bird flu, SARS, etc. its impact is grotesquely exaggerated (like everything else) by the media.

    Observe that more than 10 years after it was first reported there is still no Vaccine available for SARS.

    I'm not sure if SARS or Coronavirus is curable.

    Corona is incredible infectious and has a higher lethality than the spanish flu.
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    Post  GarryB on Thu Mar 05, 2020 12:12 am

    I guess some will jump to the conclusion that it is an biological attack. Even if we have no proof it wasn't one.

    Yeah, we should trust our own governments because they have our best interests at heart and they never lie...

    Part of the reason for conspiracy theories is the low levels of trust in politicians around the world... when the politicians tell us it is not a bio weapon attack why would you believe a person with a solid track record of lying?

    Of course as I mentioned a high transmission rate and low lethality... this could just be a test for the real weapon that has a much higher lethality... it just needs a nice long gestation period during which it can spread and then bamb... people start dropping like flies...
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    Post  JohninMK on Thu Mar 05, 2020 12:21 am

    The Chinese are saying that the first 1000 bed temporary hospital in Wuhan they put up is now closed due to lack of new patients and the second 2000 bed should shut at the end of the month.

    They are also now seeing incoming foreign carriers coming in.
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    Post  Aristide on Thu Mar 05, 2020 5:53 am

    GarryB wrote:
    I guess some will jump to the conclusion that it is an biological attack. Even if we have no proof it wasn't one.

    Yeah, we should trust our own governments because they have our best interests at heart and they never lie...

    Part of the reason for conspiracy theories is the low levels of trust in politicians around the world... when the politicians tell us it is not a bio weapon attack why would you believe a person with a solid track record of lying?

    Of course as I mentioned a high transmission rate and low lethality... this could just be a test for the real weapon that has a much higher lethality... it just needs a nice long gestation period during which it can spread and then bamb... people start dropping like flies...

    The spanish flu had a lethality of 2%, was 4 times less infectious than Corona and killed 50 million people, more than WW I.

    Do you have the slightest idea, what Corona is capable to do?

    Low lethality, is the key in biological war fare. Corona managed to basicly shut down China, drop its imdustry by 25% within 2 weeks. You dont need an Ebola type virus with 90% lethality to crush a society.

    Corona gave the communist party a blow.

    And nobody needs to create a virus, the chinese with their pathetic habit to eat evrything starts that themself. The only good thing is, they stopped finally that pathetic wildlife trade.
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    Post  Regular on Thu Mar 05, 2020 10:41 am

    I'm not a virusology expert, but to idiots who say this is just a flu please refute this:

    It has higher r0 than actual flu. Various estimates put it around 4 to 6.5.

    Its current death rate is estimated to be 3.4% compared to be 0.1% of the flu. There are hundreds of thousands people dying from flu already and this virus is much much potent and as soon as we get similiar exposure to as to what regular flu gets then we should naturally have very high death rate.

    It's novel virus that we have no methods of treatment. We sti have no vaccine for SARS as it caused cytokine storms.

    It has 20% of hospitalisation rate.

    It has HIV like inserts that make this virus binding abilities unmatched even by original SARS.

    It has very long asymptomatic period where virus is being shed even on early stages. Most likely through fomites.

    It's very resistant and patients seem to rebound (15% patients seem to be tested positive again, according to Chinese reports)

    This virus can cross blood brain barrier and infect ceribral fluids.

    This virus can breach placenta and infect babies.

    This virus can jump back into animals, like dogs. It has potential to jump into South American bats and they can become reservoir for yearly spread of this virus.

    This virus is almost in all continents and it's self sustaining. Containment is not helping.

    This virus is on the first wave and there were already mutations, like S and L types. RNA viruses are very unpredictable.

    If we compare it to other virus outbreaks in the past- it will most likely mutate and it should come in waves of different strains.
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    Post  Regular on Thu Mar 05, 2020 11:01 am

    JohninMK wrote:The Chinese are saying that the first 1000 bed temporary hospital in Wuhan they put up is now closed due to lack of new patients and the second 2000 bed should shut at the end of the month.

    They are also now seeing incoming foreign carriers coming in.

    Not long ago Wuhan officials said they are building 19 more makeshift hospitals, but they are closing down the ones built at the beginning of this crisis.

    https://www.straitstimes.com/asia/east-asia/coronavirus-wuhan-to-activate-one-more-temporary-hospital-with-3690-beds
    George1
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    Post  George1 on Mon Mar 09, 2020 10:22 pm

    Rodion_Romanovic
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    Post  Rodion_Romanovic on Mon Mar 09, 2020 10:49 pm

    Italy locked down... Shocked

    Just because it would have been impolite to close the border one and half month ago. Now they shut down the all country...

    No comment...

    It looks like I won't be going home for Easter...


    Anyway, I seriously believe that here in Merkelland they are just hiding the truth.

    According to some articles that i was reading, in Germany they don't check people for the coronavirus, even in many cases where people admit coming  from a risk zone and having the symptoms, and it is almost impossible to to talk to anybody using the new coronavirus hotlines....

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