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Log inALAMO wrote:He is struggling to give his best to the community bro!
And it is his best!
Polish traitor says what?
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Talking bollocks thread #4
PapaDragon- Posts : 13306
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Polish traitor says what?
lyle6- Posts : 2206
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Serbs and Poles arguing over who can serve and polish American balls better. Just the usual discourse on Russiadefence.net. 
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Sprut-B- Posts : 429
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the Church has also spoken of communist propaganda still being alive and well in the school system.
You're putting way too much faith in the church. Their actions are sometimes 180° opposite of what they preach. It's like every religion out there is just a big ol' pile of hypocrisy, and the Russian Orthodox Church is no exception.
So, Keep the Church out of the education system, and let the highly educated experts decide what's best for the education of the future generation.
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Begome- Posts : 158
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@Sprut-B
First, that's an off-topic, flame-baiting post.
Second, it's incredibly stupid: Comprador priests and bishops have always existed, they are humans, after all. There were even times when most of the bishops were heretics and yet the Church survived. Christ never said that there will be no bad priests or bishops, but that the gates of hell will not prevail against the Church, i.e. before the Church is destroyed the world will end.
Further, I have Faith, i.e. faith in God, not "faith" in this or that institution. Since it was off-topic I did not elaborate on that part of my comment, but the Church did give reasons for its assertion, such as the false narratives taught about the days preceding the October revolution, e.g. the "Bloody sunday" smear, which is even believed by Putin and completely debunked by the historical evidence.
And you do realize that the West and it's disgusting, pedophilia-promoting education system was set up by exactly such God-less, entitled, scientistic experts that you seem to worship as your high priests, right?
Atheism does not have a logically coherent philosophical position, nor is it based in science or has anything of worth to say about morality. All atheist propaganda should be banned from the education system; alone the fact that you want to brainwash children with this kind of system, justifying it on the basis of "experts", shows how ill-informed you are. Why don't you go listen to "the experts" and get your 5th Coofid booster and stop breathing so you don't excrete more CO2...oh and snip your penis while you're at it, as the experts say that this will reduce oppression and increase diversity.
Back on topic, I'll reiterate that it's no accident that so many young Russians are quick to jump to defeatism and dooming as a response to crises, such as the Prigo coup. They have been brainwashed by the school system into nihilistic, scientistic atheism and a preference for revolutionary figures, which is why Prigo constantly tried to make himself into one. Prigo himself was brainwashed into atheism by the Soviet system...had he instead been brought into the Faith, I'm pretty sure he'd have been less greedy, more balanced and less reckless and would probably still be alive today.
First, that's an off-topic, flame-baiting post.
Second, it's incredibly stupid: Comprador priests and bishops have always existed, they are humans, after all. There were even times when most of the bishops were heretics and yet the Church survived. Christ never said that there will be no bad priests or bishops, but that the gates of hell will not prevail against the Church, i.e. before the Church is destroyed the world will end.
Further, I have Faith, i.e. faith in God, not "faith" in this or that institution. Since it was off-topic I did not elaborate on that part of my comment, but the Church did give reasons for its assertion, such as the false narratives taught about the days preceding the October revolution, e.g. the "Bloody sunday" smear, which is even believed by Putin and completely debunked by the historical evidence.
And you do realize that the West and it's disgusting, pedophilia-promoting education system was set up by exactly such God-less, entitled, scientistic experts that you seem to worship as your high priests, right?
Atheism does not have a logically coherent philosophical position, nor is it based in science or has anything of worth to say about morality. All atheist propaganda should be banned from the education system; alone the fact that you want to brainwash children with this kind of system, justifying it on the basis of "experts", shows how ill-informed you are. Why don't you go listen to "the experts" and get your 5th Coofid booster and stop breathing so you don't excrete more CO2...oh and snip your penis while you're at it, as the experts say that this will reduce oppression and increase diversity.
Back on topic, I'll reiterate that it's no accident that so many young Russians are quick to jump to defeatism and dooming as a response to crises, such as the Prigo coup. They have been brainwashed by the school system into nihilistic, scientistic atheism and a preference for revolutionary figures, which is why Prigo constantly tried to make himself into one. Prigo himself was brainwashed into atheism by the Soviet system...had he instead been brought into the Faith, I'm pretty sure he'd have been less greedy, more balanced and less reckless and would probably still be alive today.
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TMA1- Posts : 1135
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Is sprut b the cringy fedora spamming all image boards with antichristian posts? Gay
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sepheronx- Posts : 8558
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TMA1 wrote:Is sprut b the cringy fedora spamming all image boards with antichristian posts? Gay
Especially since he is from India where there is a massive issue with inter-religious issues everywhere and the ultra lib universities are hotbeds for Jihadist apologists and trash talks India non stop (yes, Kashmir is the biggest example).
Anyone from India shouldn't be talking about education systems, religious centers or anything of the such anywhere around the world. Their problems are rather very stark. Wonderful country with lots of great people. But I have seen with my own eyes, my experiences and plenty of others, of the major problems of India.
kvs wrote:Supposedly video shows a fuselage without wings falling. So the theory that it was improperly stored ammunition does not fly. It seems
that bombs were planted in the wheel wells of the jet.
Anyway, I would wait for the investigation. Anyone claiming it will be a cover up should take their tin foil hat off.
Logic isn't wanted here.
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Sprut-B- Posts : 429
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@Begome
Soviet scientific atheism did not cause the current degradation of Russian society.
The Soviets actually liberated millions of people from slavery and promoted science, reasoning, and critical thinking over religious dogma. This emphasis on rationality and education led to a more intellectually developed population with increased scientific literacy. Plus, the Soviets were all about creating an egalitarian society that focused on human well-being, not the cult of Western Globohomo ideology. And let's not forget, under Soviet rule, there were no LGBTQ+, no radical feminism, and no pornography industry.
Soviet atheism is not the same as liberal ideology. Liberals aren't even true atheists, they just use anything to justify their cult ideology. Liberalism is an ideology and a religion born out of the uncontrolled hedonism and debauchery of Western society. Western liberals can be just as dogmatic as Wahabi Islam, the only difference is their set of beliefs.
The current problems in Russia can largely be attributed to the post-Soviet trauma associated with the collapse of the USSR. Suddenly, Russians were exposed to unfiltered Western liberal dogma without the iron curtain to shield them. Russian peoples at that time were fully convinced by Western propaganda that the Western way of living, aka hedonism and debauchery, was the only way to progress. Add in separatism and economic mayhem, and it's no wonder the current Russian mentality exists. Most people today between the ages of 30 and 40 grew up during that chaotic period of time.
Soviet scientific atheism did not cause the current degradation of Russian society.
The Soviets actually liberated millions of people from slavery and promoted science, reasoning, and critical thinking over religious dogma. This emphasis on rationality and education led to a more intellectually developed population with increased scientific literacy. Plus, the Soviets were all about creating an egalitarian society that focused on human well-being, not the cult of Western Globohomo ideology. And let's not forget, under Soviet rule, there were no LGBTQ+, no radical feminism, and no pornography industry.
Soviet atheism is not the same as liberal ideology. Liberals aren't even true atheists, they just use anything to justify their cult ideology. Liberalism is an ideology and a religion born out of the uncontrolled hedonism and debauchery of Western society. Western liberals can be just as dogmatic as Wahabi Islam, the only difference is their set of beliefs.
The current problems in Russia can largely be attributed to the post-Soviet trauma associated with the collapse of the USSR. Suddenly, Russians were exposed to unfiltered Western liberal dogma without the iron curtain to shield them. Russian peoples at that time were fully convinced by Western propaganda that the Western way of living, aka hedonism and debauchery, was the only way to progress. Add in separatism and economic mayhem, and it's no wonder the current Russian mentality exists. Most people today between the ages of 30 and 40 grew up during that chaotic period of time.
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Sprut-B- Posts : 429
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Especially since he is from India where there is a massive issue with inter-religious issues everywhere and the ultra lib universities are hotbeds for Jihadist apologists and trash talks India non stop (yes, Kashmir is the biggest example).
Anyone from India shouldn't be talking about education systems, religious centers or anything of the such anywhere around the world. Their problems are rather very stark. Wonderful country with lots of great people. But I have seen with my own eyes, my experiences and plenty of others, of the major problems of India.
In India, anyone who now speaks out against the current Hindu extremist pro-Western government led by Modi is labelled a liberal. It's kind of ironic, though, considering that this same government recently legalised gay marriage, a move that flabbergasted even the loudest of those liberal university academias.
Begome- Posts : 158
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Sprut-B wrote:@Begome
Soviet scientific atheism did not cause the current degradation of Russian society.
The Soviets actually liberated millions of people from slavery and promoted science, reasoning, and critical thinking over religious dogma. This emphasis on rationality and education led to a more intellectually developed population with increased scientific literacy. Plus, the Soviets were all about creating an egalitarian society that focused on human well-being, not the cult of Western Globohomo ideology. And let's not forget, under Soviet rule, there were no LGBTQ+, no radical feminism, and no pornography industry.
Soviet atheism is not the same as liberal ideology. Liberals aren't even true atheists, they just use anything to justify their cult ideology. Liberalism is an ideology and a religion born out of the uncontrolled hedonism and debauchery of Western society. Western liberals can be just as dogmatic as Wahabi Islam, the only difference is their set of beliefs.
The current problems in Russia can largely be attributed to the post-Soviet trauma associated with the collapse of the USSR. Suddenly, Russians were exposed to unfiltered Western liberal dogma without the iron curtain to shield them. Russian peoples at that time were fully convinced by Western propaganda that the Western way of living, aka hedonism and debauchery, was the only way to progress. Add in separatism and economic mayhem, and it's no wonder the current Russian mentality exists. Most people today between the ages of 30 and 40 grew up during that chaotic period of time.
That is again, totally off-topic, but since the mods aren't doing anything about it, I'll reply.
It's a load of crap: how is destroying the largest country in the world and murdering millions of innocent people "liberation"? What slavery existed just prior to the revolution that was in any way or even equal to the massive gulags the atheists set up? How is the violent replacement of proper Orthodox Christian dogma, which was not anyhow enforced by the state at that point, with logically incoherent atheistic dogma a sound action? Critical thinking? LMAO...you either agreed with them or they tortured and murdered you, how is that the promotion of critical thinking? Look up how many people were executed in the Russian Empire 100 years before the revolution (hint: a very small, 3-digit number; and those were all criminals, not innocent people) and how many the filthy atheists murdered just in the first week of their revolution. Stop doing apologetics for mass murderers, it's disgusting!
How egalitarian is a society that tortures and murders you for wrong-think lol...
One of the biggest problems of Russia today is demographics. One of the first things the reds did was make abortion legal. In 1991 over 4 million people were aborted, the culmination of that degenerate legacy. You don't think that's a problem for Russian society?
Anyway, I have to go Church now, so I'll reply to the other stupid points later if needed.
sundoesntrise- Posts : 361
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Sprut-B wrote:
In India, anyone who now speaks out against the current Hindu extremist pro-Western government led by Modi is labelled a liberal. It's kind of ironic, though, considering that this same government recently legalised gay marriage, a move that flabbergasted even the loudest of those liberal university academias.
Stop talking BS, Rakesh.
India under Modi is following a policy of non alignment - and they are just as heavy on the de-dollarisatuon as Russia and China. Never mind the repeated refusals to join the sanctions, even though the US has been promising them 'security guarantees' all year long.
It's an open secret that the Biden Administration and the Modi Administration do not like each other and the former is using it's NGOs, media and the Courts to create internal strife and anti Modi sentiment.
The China-India rivalry is obviously the wild card that the US can use to wedge itself back into Indian decision making and pull it back towards it.
Your understanding of geopolitics (and more) is severely limited by your massive (anti-) Indian bias and obsolete (((libtard))) beliefs on 'muh science' and 'muh atheism'.
flamming_python- Posts : 9051
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Gotta love them Serbs cucking for the Russian Orthodox Church
And I say this as an Orthodox Christian myself. I simply don't trust the Church itself
What else, God save the Tsar?
And I say this as an Orthodox Christian myself. I simply don't trust the Church itself
What else, God save the Tsar?
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sundoesntrise- Posts : 361
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flamming_python wrote:Gotta love them Serbs cucking for the Russian Orthodox Church
And I say this as an Orthodox Christian myself. I simply don't trust the Church itself
What else, God save the Tsar?
Our favorite (((Russian Orthodox))). Using his favorite (((my fellow Russian Orthodox))) line to subvert.
Remarkable how every time when a discussion that appears to slide into unwanted territory the (((gatekeeper))) of this forum appears to either deflect or re-adjust discussion onto the correct railway track.
Truly makes you think.
flamming_python- Posts : 9051
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sundoesntrise wrote:flamming_python wrote:Gotta love them Serbs cucking for the Russian Orthodox Church
And I say this as an Orthodox Christian myself. I simply don't trust the Church itself
What else, God save the Tsar?
Our favorite (((Russian Orthodox))). Using his favorite (((my fellow Russian Orthodox))) line to subvert.
Remarkable how every time when a discussion that appears to slide into unwanted territory the (((gatekeeper))) of this forum appears to either deflect or re-adjust discussion onto the correct railway track.
Truly makes you think.
And what's the correct railway track, being anti-ROC out of all things?
No it's just my personal opinion and clearly not mine alone. If someone disagrees with that that's not a problem though; I'm not an authority here and I'm not trying to ostracize anyone else - it's just a friendly elbow to the ribs that's all.
Gatekeeping is done only against NATO infowar trolls such as yourself, more like whack-a-mole really though
TMA1- Posts : 1135
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Nah it is usually wise to distrust church institutions. Jesus Christ said as much for us here in Matthew 23:3
All therefore whatsoever they bid you observe, that observe and do; but do not ye after their works: for they say, and do not.
All therefore whatsoever they bid you observe, that observe and do; but do not ye after their works: for they say, and do not.
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Begome- Posts : 158
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That was about the Pharisees, not the apostles, though.TMA1 wrote:Nah it is usually wise to distrust church institutions. Jesus Christ said as much for us here in Matthew 23:3
All therefore whatsoever they bid you observe, that observe and do; but do not ye after their works: for they say, and do not.
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Disclaimer: I am not Sprut-B, but only a mere another humble human who have issues with your point of view.
Except that the USSR is one of the only two superpower which a robust economy, breathtaking level of technology and a powerful military.
It was a feat that the Tsarist regime was never able to do.
Except that the number of people killed was deliberatedly exaggerated and why they were killed, by whom they were killed, and even whether they are actually killed or dead because of other reasons, was deliberately indiscriminately counted, by Western propaganda, for obvious reason.
You should not let yourself being abused by Western propaganda.
I don't know, at least 1/3 of Russian population prior 1861 was serf and as far as I know there was nothing happy being a serf.
GULAG inmates are convicts, but being a serf have nothing to do with your criminal records but social background. At least, biased and faulted as the system were, GULAG treated you according to its criteria of your crimes, but serfdom was a blalant case of discrimination and unequality whose treatment had nothing to do with merit but everything to do with nepotism, favouritism, and discrimination.
I don't know, how about a story of a Russian landlord who killed 72 of her serfs in a fist of rage and she was suffered only a very lenient punishment just because she was an aristocrat and her victims were serfs ?
How about you broaden your data a bit to include the people who were killed, discriminated, exploited, and suffered "legitimately" under the Tsarist regime which, according to the criteria of autocratic and aristocratic regimes, were legally and morally accepted, but according to the criteria of any decent democratic country who respect human rights, were gross violations of human rights and severe exploitation by the ruling class ?
I am not apologetic for what wrongdoings and mistakes under the USSR but, with utmost respect, are you apologetic for class discrimination, authoritarianism, aristocracy and nepotism under the Tsarist regime which was a blalant violation of human rights ?
Sure, that is why Tsarist regime is a classic case of NOT egalitarian society.
But Russian population INCREASE under Soviet Union thanked to development in economy, welfare, and social progress, and has been a chronic problem only after the catastrophic event in 1991.
The main reason for population decline worldwide had nothing to do with abortion but many things to do with economy, works and career prospects, and income/welfare. There are issues with selfish version of "freedom" but it is the result of capitalism and have nothing to do with stance regarding religion or atheism.
Let's talk it this way. How many kids do you plan to have and do you have enough time and money to raise them, so that they can earn a good diploma and be competitive in the labour marker (i.e. get a good job with high salary against hundreds of competitors for that job) ? Do you have money and strength to raise many kids to such level ?
I am against abortion (except for medical reasons) but should you look more at tangible normal daily life issues of each people, instead of abstract ideas of moral which can be hypocrite and shallow-minded ?
Sure. It is your freedom of religion and belief to attend Church and have religion activities.
I am an atheist and, even worse to you, a Communist sympathizer. But I have friends who are Christians and I have no problem with people attending Church. I am willing drive them to the Church if they need help although all of them have the means to do so and nobody forbid them to attending Church even if they are living in a socialist country.
Unlike Western propaganda, communists like Marx, Engels, or Lenin were against the repression against religious believers. See "Anti-Duhring" for your reference.
But religion should never be the guise to justify superstitions, domestic violence, gender discrimination, autocracy, and fifth-column forces who abused the name of Jesus to backstab their fellows. Just like many "pastors", "priests" or "Buddhist monks" were CIA agents who support the criminal wars of USA in South East Asia.
I have nothing against religious people but I am against the reactionary piece of craps who abuse the name of Jesus and Buddha as a guise for their crapstatic ideas.
Begome wrote:It's a load of crap: how is destroying the largest country in the world and murdering millions of innocent people "liberation"?
Except that the USSR is one of the only two superpower which a robust economy, breathtaking level of technology and a powerful military.
It was a feat that the Tsarist regime was never able to do.
Begome wrote:murdering millions of innocent people "liberation"?
Except that the number of people killed was deliberatedly exaggerated and why they were killed, by whom they were killed, and even whether they are actually killed or dead because of other reasons, was deliberately indiscriminately counted, by Western propaganda, for obvious reason.
You should not let yourself being abused by Western propaganda.
Begome wrote:What slavery existed just prior to the revolution that was in any way or even equal to the massive gulags the atheists set up?
I don't know, at least 1/3 of Russian population prior 1861 was serf and as far as I know there was nothing happy being a serf.
GULAG inmates are convicts, but being a serf have nothing to do with your criminal records but social background. At least, biased and faulted as the system were, GULAG treated you according to its criteria of your crimes, but serfdom was a blalant case of discrimination and unequality whose treatment had nothing to do with merit but everything to do with nepotism, favouritism, and discrimination.
Begome wrote:Look up how many people were executed in the Russian Empire 100 years before the revolution (hint: a very small, 3-digit number; and those were all criminals, not innocent people) and how many the filthy atheists murdered just in the first week of their revolution. Stop doing apologetics for mass murderers, it's disgusting!
I don't know, how about a story of a Russian landlord who killed 72 of her serfs in a fist of rage and she was suffered only a very lenient punishment just because she was an aristocrat and her victims were serfs ?
How about you broaden your data a bit to include the people who were killed, discriminated, exploited, and suffered "legitimately" under the Tsarist regime which, according to the criteria of autocratic and aristocratic regimes, were legally and morally accepted, but according to the criteria of any decent democratic country who respect human rights, were gross violations of human rights and severe exploitation by the ruling class ?
I am not apologetic for what wrongdoings and mistakes under the USSR but, with utmost respect, are you apologetic for class discrimination, authoritarianism, aristocracy and nepotism under the Tsarist regime which was a blalant violation of human rights ?
Begome wrote:How egalitarian is a society that tortures and murders you for wrong-think lol...
Sure, that is why Tsarist regime is a classic case of NOT egalitarian society.
Begome wrote:One of the biggest problems of Russia today is demographics. One of the first things the reds did was make abortion legal. In 1991 over 4 million people were aborted, the culmination of that degenerate legacy. You don't think that's a problem for Russian society?
But Russian population INCREASE under Soviet Union thanked to development in economy, welfare, and social progress, and has been a chronic problem only after the catastrophic event in 1991.
The main reason for population decline worldwide had nothing to do with abortion but many things to do with economy, works and career prospects, and income/welfare. There are issues with selfish version of "freedom" but it is the result of capitalism and have nothing to do with stance regarding religion or atheism.
Let's talk it this way. How many kids do you plan to have and do you have enough time and money to raise them, so that they can earn a good diploma and be competitive in the labour marker (i.e. get a good job with high salary against hundreds of competitors for that job) ? Do you have money and strength to raise many kids to such level ?
I am against abortion (except for medical reasons) but should you look more at tangible normal daily life issues of each people, instead of abstract ideas of moral which can be hypocrite and shallow-minded ?
Begome wrote:Anyway, I have to go Church now, so I'll reply to the other stupid points later if needed.
Sure. It is your freedom of religion and belief to attend Church and have religion activities.
I am an atheist and, even worse to you, a Communist sympathizer. But I have friends who are Christians and I have no problem with people attending Church. I am willing drive them to the Church if they need help although all of them have the means to do so and nobody forbid them to attending Church even if they are living in a socialist country.
Unlike Western propaganda, communists like Marx, Engels, or Lenin were against the repression against religious believers. See "Anti-Duhring" for your reference.
But religion should never be the guise to justify superstitions, domestic violence, gender discrimination, autocracy, and fifth-column forces who abused the name of Jesus to backstab their fellows. Just like many "pastors", "priests" or "Buddhist monks" were CIA agents who support the criminal wars of USA in South East Asia.
I have nothing against religious people but I am against the reactionary piece of craps who abuse the name of Jesus and Buddha as a guise for their crapstatic ideas.
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TMA1 wrote:Is sprut b the cringy fedora spamming all image boards with antichristian posts? Gay
someone said he was that Mike guy. Mad Mike or whatever. He had the fat bastard avatar
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GarryB wrote:Well like their anti ship missiles this new MRBM should have plenty of range to hit targets all through Europe and Asia if needed so it wont just be for hitting aircraft carriers, but their aircraft carriers are their best defended western targets in existence, so any weapon designed to sink a carrier will be useful to level HQs and bunkers in Brussels and Bonn and Paris and London and Washington DC.
hard to disagree, IMHO ACs were mentioned because it is not so large comparing to other targets (+military bases) . Gerald Ford has
Beam
256 ft (78 m) (flight deck)[8]
134 ft (41 m) (waterline)[8]
So you need to hit something moving 30knots with cep lett then 20m form thousands vkm distance flying 10omach r more. Quite a tech achievement if you ask me.
Because the west relies so heavily on air power then weapons that take out runways and hangars and enemy aircraft become that much more valuable in destroying the enemy and making them come to terms that suit Russia.
Me thinks nothing is wrong with air power but Russian never is going to be on pair with the whole West in this regard. Tech enabled an asymmetric way to counter it imho.
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Arrow- Posts : 2769
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rue, but Serpentine is just meant ot be better. Kinzhal -2000km (of which roughly half due to fighter-carrier) wrote:
Kinzhal has a range of 2,000 km from the MiG-31K launch site. Some idiotic sources in the West add to this the range of the MiG-31K.
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Arrow wrote:
Kinzhal has a range of 2,000 km from the MiG-31K launch site. Some idiotic sources in the West add to this the range of the MiG-31K.
- Гиперзвуковая ракета "Кинжал", которая ставится сегодня на истребители МиГ-31К и по сути является адаптацией "Искандера" под авиационный носитель, имеет дальность поражения 1500 километров - втрое большую, чем у своей сухопутной версии, - рассказал РИА Новости источник в оборонно-промышленном комплексе. Он отметил, что дальние бомбардировщики Ту-22М3 смогут применять "Кинжалы" на той же дистанции.
{}
“The Kinzhal hypersonic missile, which is installed today on MiG-31K fighters and is essentially an adaptation of the Iskander for an aircraft carrier, has a destruction range of 1,500 kilometers - three times greater than that of its land version,” a source in the defense industry told RIA Novosti . industrial complex. He noted that long-range Tu-22M3 bombers will be able to use Kinzhals at the same distance.
https://rg.ru/2018/07/18/nazvana-boevaia-dalnost-rakety-kinzhal.html
lyle6 wrote:Or Russia was sobered by just how shit NATO IADS is and realized they can get away with Kalibrs and Gerans for the foreseeable future.
Probably also realized they underinvested in their airpower. Now they know why NATO went all in on JDAMs and glide bombs - its because that shit for IADS is all NATO knows .
Your assessment of NATO is imho to optimistic. They know what they want and how to achieve this just there is inertia last 30 years they didn't need to fight on pair adversary. It's not that they dont have money or brains but just there was no need for this. And yes they might be later with hypersonic missiles but once they will catch they can make much more of of them.
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Arrow- Posts : 2769
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“The Kinzhal hypersonic missile, which is installed today on MiG-31K fighters and is essentially an adaptation of the Iskander for an aircraft carrier, has a destruction range of 1,500 kilometers - three times greater than that of its land version,” a source in the defense industry told RIA Novosti . industrial complex. He noted that long-range Tu-22M3 bombers will be able to use Kinzhals at the same distance. wrote:
This source is clearly repeating erroneous nonsense. The range of Kinzhal is 2000 km, it has been repeatedly reported by many sources.
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kvs- Posts : 15167
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Indeed, specifying the range by including the Mig-31 range is moronic. The Mig-31 range is over 2,000 km. So that would mean
that the Kinzhal has a range of less than 0.
that the Kinzhal has a range of less than 0.
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GunshipDemocracy wrote:
Your assessment of NATO is imho to optimistic. They know what they want and how to achieve this just there is inertia last 30 years they didn't need to fight on pair adversary. It's not that they dont have money or brains but just there was no need for this. And yes they might be later with hypersonic missiles but once they will catch they can make much more of of them.
What brains and what production capacity?
They are by far intellectually and industrially inferior to Russia. They cannot even make enough shells for a proxy war.
This is by no means to say that Russia should neglect to further their advantages, just that they should perhaps take a more balanced approach and not spend all thier resources on low numbers of wunderwaffe to defeat the imaginary armies of a perceived intelligent enemy. The gato hordes real strength lies in thier numbers, hence Russia needs an arsenal optimised for culling, not pinpricks.
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true, but Serpentine is just meant ot be better. Kinzhal -2000km (of which roughly half due to fighter-carrier) . Serpentine - 4?5000 km. No need to use fighter...
Imagine missiles that could reach US fleet/military installations in Hawaii...
Their own comparisons with the Chinese missile suggest it is exactly the sort of Intermediate and Medium range ballistic missile that was banned by the INF treaty so the range is probably going to be from 1,500km up to anything they like... if it is a solid ballistic rocket that carries reentry vehicles that have scramjet motors that only start running as they reenter the atmosphere then they might be vulnerable to interception while still in space where they can't manouver, but I would expect they would be intended to come down some distance from the target area and then fly through the upper atmosphere on a scramjet motor... to maintain speed and enable it to dodge and weave and still maintain speed... they could have a mix of gliders which will be smaller and lighter and cheaper and able to be carried in much larger numbers, or mini missiles which can be dropped off near the target and fly the last stage at very high speed at very high altitude and then dive on the target nearly vertically...
No need for aircraft to launch them, which means they can be delivered during a snow storm, but the first stage solid rocket motor is not reusable like a MiG-31K is.
So you need to hit something moving 30knots with cep lett then 20m form thousands vkm distance flying 10omach r more. Quite a tech achievement if you ask me.
Flying at mach 10 for 1,500km for Zircon and probably mach 8 or 9 for Kinzhal for a very similar range and they still find their targets it seems.
Me thinks nothing is wrong with air power but Russian never is going to be on pair with the whole West in this regard. Tech enabled an asymmetric way to counter it imho.
Russia needs a decent navy to defend her interests around the world but they don't need equal numbers to the US or the entire west, and I think their Air Force is already pretty good... a few changes here and there and a few updates and improvements that are ongoing, they are doing just fine... would love to see a numbers fighter like the MiG-35 or their new stealthy fighter put into service in numbers so they can increase their presence in the air.... even if they don't shoot anything down having more eyes in the sky is a good thing and with smaller lighter fighters it wont be as expensive as trying to do the same with bigger heavier fighters.
“The Kinzhal hypersonic missile, which is installed today on MiG-31K fighters and is essentially an adaptation of the Iskander for an aircraft carrier, has a destruction range of 1,500 kilometers - three times greater than that of its land version,” a source in the defense industry told RIA Novosti . industrial complex. He noted that long-range Tu-22M3 bombers will be able to use Kinzhals at the same distance.
The fact that he says that the Kinzhal can reach the same distance from an aircraft that can fly at mach 2 tops and to about 11km or 12km altitude suggests that the range for the MiG-31K is conservative because it could fly at Mach 2.83 at the very least and at altitudes of 18-20km, which is a significant difference.
I would say 1,500km is conservative and realistic and while longer ranged launches would be possible that it should be considered the effective practical range.
I mean at the altitude this missile would fly wouldn't the trade winds be relevant?
That would have a huge effect on range.
Your assessment of NATO is imho to optimistic. They know what they want and how to achieve this just there is inertia last 30 years they didn't need to fight on pair adversary. It's not that they dont have money or brains but just there was no need for this. And yes they might be later with hypersonic missiles but once they will catch they can make much more of of them.
Their hypersonic missiles will be the best and also very very expensive and most HATO countries will only buy a few hours worth of missiles and just assume America will have more when they need them.
They wont have a lot of money to waste moving forward... even now there are protests in western countries about supporting Kiev at a time when they need money spent on their own territory for their own people.
The west needs to build a complete integrated air defence network or their air power is useless and horribly vulnerable... in a conflict with Russia 70-80% of their weapons are probably going to be shot down, while 80-90% of Russian weapons will get through... how can they have any confidence of surviving let alone winning?
This source is clearly repeating erroneous nonsense. The range of Kinzhal is 2000 km, it has been repeatedly reported by many sources.
The problem is the range given can be different based on the launch conditions and launch platform... I would prefer the more conservative range of 1,500km but that is from the MiG-31K that launched it... so with inflight refuelling that could be any distance from its airfield at all... the point is that the missile will penetrate the air defences at very high speed to a depth of 1,500km which means no air defence system will be shooting down the launch platform unless you send out CAP or other sneaky BS.
What brains and what production capacity?
Their engineers are clever, it is the greedy managers and owners of the companies that let them down... but ultimately it is the corruption in the military... they are giving them what they want...
The gato hordes real strength lies in thier numbers, hence Russia needs an arsenal optimised for culling, not pinpricks.
Ironically to defeat the impressive Russian IADS HATO was talking about drone swarms, using their high tech advantage in cheap simple drones... and looking at its performance against Russian forces in Ukraine it seems the standard air defence component for dealing with aircraft and missiles works very well and they are now not only perfecting it against western drones but they are also developing their own drones which appear to be very good too... so how is the west going to cope with drones when they probably couldn't even cope with standard aircraft.
The Soviets had anti ship missile swarm technology in the late 1970s for goodness sake, which the west dismissed because it probably wouldn't work.... hahahaha.
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Arrow wrote:
This source is clearly repeating erroneous nonsense. The range of Kinzhal is 2000 km, it has been repeatedly reported by many sources.
Perhaps the problem is in translation? Kinzhal is a name of complex, missile itself is called 9-S-7760. I was referring to missile range not complex. Perhaps MiGneeds 500km to get to height and speed needed to launch missile?
https://tass.ru/armiya-i-opk/5383655MOSCOW, July 18. /TASS/. The range of use of the hypersonic missile of the Kinzhal complex will reach approximately 3000 km with the new carrier aircraft - the Tu-22M3 bomber; with the MiG-31K it is more than 2000 km. A source in the defense-industrial complex reported this to TASS on Wednesday.
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