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    S-500 'Prometheus' and S-550 missile systems

    Hole
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    Post  Hole Wed Dec 29, 2021 12:13 pm

    Turns out the "long-range" S-500 systems is more medium-range. Very Happy

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    dino00
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    Post  dino00 Wed Dec 29, 2021 12:39 pm

    The first several divisions of the new S-550 anti-aircraft missile system (SAM) are preparing to take up combat duty. This was announced on Wednesday, December 29, by a source to Izvestia.

    According to him, all combat vehicles, as well as auxiliary equipment for these units, have already been produced and transferred to the personnel
    .


    This is very confusing, this can only be Nudol, and in 2025 it will appear another system, that it's not Aerostat dunno

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    GarryB
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    Post  GarryB Wed Dec 29, 2021 12:52 pm

    S-550 is not Nudol... AFAIK... we have seen Nudol on a truck but it always seems to get loaded into a silo for launch so I think it is a replacement for the A-135s and A-235s in the Moscow ABM system... or perhaps an additional missile.

    The issues of operating in space are fairly unique so having a general long range SAM that can take on targets inside and outside of the atmosphere would lead to a very compromised missile system... I suspect they want the S-350 and S-400 for targets inside the atmosphere, while the S-500 will likely deal with most battlefield and theatre weapons used against ground forces, while the S-550 is a more strategic weapon for defending Russian strategic sites from strategic weapons... ICBMS and long range SLBMs as well as hypersonic threats and also objects in space.

    To manouver in space it needs side thruster rockets to manouver in a vacuum... such side thrusters could also be used inside the atmosphere to change flightpath very very rapidly to hit very very fast moving targets that are manouvering.

    They wont waste S-550s or S-500s on anything but very serious targets, the S-350 will be the numbers missile used against a variety of targets where is ARH and high precision should allow it to deal with most aircraft and enemy munitions.

    They have mentioned that for long range AAMs they are developing mini warheads to take on multiple targets... which makes perfect sense... for a MiG-31 launching a 300km range R-37M at a target only to find when the missile gets there it is four targets means it has to launch three more missiles... having mini missiles on the first missile that can detach in flight and chase down individual targets that don't require 60kg HE warheads each to deal with then it will be more efficient sending one missile that chases down three or more targets on its own... I would think the same logic would apply for the S-400 and S-500 missiles where enemy targets 400km or 600km away could be engaged killing 4 to 8 targets with each missile launch... it would make it much easier to deal with enemy aircraft formations if you can launch a strike when they are formed up fuelling up to start the mission... especially if you can get the tankers too.

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    Arrow


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    Post  Arrow Wed Dec 29, 2021 1:05 pm

    Simply put, Russia unveiled another weapon system two months ago. Today it turned out that it is fully ready and is entering service amazing.
    New strategic ABM/ASAT system Shocked
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    Post  LMFS Wed Dec 29, 2021 1:44 pm

    Izvestia joins, so this starts sounding serious. Such a system means all satellites on orbit, space objects like X-37B or potential space weapons, hypersonic gliding blocks and of course ICBM warheads are under threat... that needs massive kinematics, beyond obviously tracking and guidance systems that need to be up to such a difficult task. This is a very major development IMHO and one that leaves US extremely exposed, with the only caveat that huge numbers of interceptors would be needed to keep Russia safe in case of actual nuclear attack that are very difficult and expensive to deploy. Massive news, in any case.

    Martyanov has already picked this up:

    https://smoothiex12.blogspot.com/2021/12/ok-this-is-official-wow.html

    I guess this is going to have consequences, the US has a few days to assess the situation before talks about security assurances to Russia start on the 10th of January

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    dino00
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    Post  dino00 Wed Dec 29, 2021 2:23 pm

    The source spoke about the new tests of the S-500 in the Arctic

    Source: prototypes of the S-550 air defense system for firing have not yet been created


    MOSCOW, December 29 - RIA Novosti. In the Russian Arctic , tests of the S -500 anti-aircraft missile system (SAM) took place , an informed source told RIA Novosti.
    "The launch of the long-range missile of the system was carried out at a hypersonic target, the target was successfully hit," said the agency's interlocutor.

    The source clarified that "testing of another S-550 system in the near future is not planned, since its prototypes have not yet been created, while development is underway."

    https://ria.ru/20211229/s-500-1766015268.html

    What a mess lol1 confused

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    dino00
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    Post  dino00 Wed Dec 29, 2021 2:29 pm

    I think the Nudol is ready and they maybe changed the name and Ria source wasn't informed
    In 2025 we could have a system called something like S-500V(just an example) that is the S-500 ABM delayed system...
    franco
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    Post  franco Wed Dec 29, 2021 2:32 pm

    dino00 wrote:I think the Nudol is ready and they maybe changed the name and Ria source wasn't informed
    In 2025 we could have a system called something like S-500V(just an example) that is the S-500 ABM delayed system...

    I think the Russians like to misdirect and confuse Smile Major piece of their military art. russia

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    JohninMK
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    Post  JohninMK Wed Dec 29, 2021 4:05 pm

    franco wrote:
    dino00 wrote:I think the Nudol is ready and they maybe changed the name and Ria source wasn't informed
    In 2025 we could have a system called something like S-500V(just an example) that is the S-500 ABM delayed system...

    I think the Russians like to misdirect and confuse Smile Major piece of their military art. russia

    Expect a string of these to rattle the NATO cage ahead of the meetings coming up in January.

    This one is interesting as it is built on existing misinformation and exaggeration.

    From memory the S-500 systems currently delivered are for training in the Moscow area with production in 2024 whilst the S-550 are an announced but unknown quantity. Good work by the MoD PR team to puff it up like this.

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    kvs
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    Post  kvs Wed Dec 29, 2021 4:43 pm

    We will not get the actual production schedule from the Russian or any other media.

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    medo
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    Post  medo Wed Dec 29, 2021 6:00 pm

    S-550 is strategic complex and as such was kept in secret. It's development was for sure hiden behind S-500 development and tests. S-500 is now entering in armament. S-550 is for sure still kept in secret, so we do not know its status. Not long ago Russia shot down their own satellite at the altitude higher than 400 km as it could endanger ISS space station. We do not know, which complex was used, Nudol, S-500 or S-550.

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    Isos
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    Post  Isos Wed Dec 29, 2021 6:10 pm

    medo wrote:S-550 is strategic complex and as such was kept in secret. It's development was for sure hiden behind S-500 development and tests. S-500 is now entering in armament. S-550 is for sure still kept in secret, so we do not know its status. Not long ago Russia shot down their own satellite at the altitude higher than 400 km as it could endanger ISS space station. We do not know, which complex was used, Nudol, S-500 or S-550.

    Nothing secret. They adapted one of their missile to a system that is better suited for some role than S-500.

    They did that with S-350 which is a derivated of S-400 with 9m96, smaller trucks for better manoeuvrability and more missiles ready to launch.

    Abakhan is derivated from S-300VM with wheeled truck and made for protecting targets that are well inside friendly territory against ballistic missiles.

    None of them uses new technology. They are just existing systems with different parameters (different truck, load of missile, type of missile, size) designed for specific roles. The technologies involved have already been made.

    On the opposite S-500 is a new system. They developped new radars and missiles for it.
    Sujoy
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    Post  Sujoy Wed Dec 29, 2021 7:27 pm

    GarryB wrote:I suspect they want the S-350 and S-400 for targets inside the atmosphere, while the S-500 will likely deal with most battlefield and theatre weapons used against ground forces, while the S-550 is a more strategic weapon for defending Russian strategic sites from strategic weapons... ICBMS and long range SLBMs as well as hypersonic threats and also objects in space.
    Would be interesting to see if a naval variant of S-500 is developed.

    Russian ships will need SAMs that can intercept Anti Ship ballistic missiles. The S-300F probably does provide some protection in this regard, but the Russian Navy might want more advanced SAMs that can destroy Anti Ship ballistic missiles.
    Arkanghelsk
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    Post  Arkanghelsk Wed Dec 29, 2021 9:36 pm

    This is an incredible weapon

    At this point the US cannot resort to Nuclear Response as it is, but at least when it comes to hypersonic conventional strike, the S550 is already deployed when the US has not even fielded its first hypersonic weapons.

    By the time dark horse or whatever they call it is active in Germany, the S550 will be deployed to such a degree that those weapons will be shot down in early interception of those targets followed by zircon and avangard quickly destroying the sites.

    The missile race alas has been won, and Russia can escalate to achieve pullout of NATO forces from any theater they choose .

    They just need to keep hands over the proverbial red buttons and watch neocons fold in every negotiation

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    GarryB
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    Post  GarryB Thu Dec 30, 2021 4:56 am

    Would be interesting to see if a naval variant of S-500 is developed.

    They have said they would.

    Probably for Cruisers and perhaps CVNs from special launchers...

    Russian ships will need SAMs that can intercept Anti Ship ballistic missiles. The S-300F probably does provide some protection in this regard, but the Russian Navy might want more advanced SAMs that can destroy Anti Ship ballistic missiles.

    S-300F is obsolete and is being replaced by Redut which on Corvettes and Frigates has S-350 missiles but they have said Redut is compatible with the full sized S-400 missiles meaning 250km and 400km range missiles should be compatible too.

    Further announcements on new weapons can probably be expected between now and the January 10th meeting with Biden so it should be an interesting new year... I would expect perhaps comments about Thunderbird, and Poseidon too...

    The S-550 seems to be a very impressive missile... but what is more impressive is the IADS and all the other missiles that will be used with it... from Kornet and Bulat ATGMs, through Verba and Igla-S and the new Label MANPADS and Pine/Sosna and Pantsir and TOR and BUK and S-350 and S-400 and S-300V4 and S-500... and a lot of different obsolete missiles and gun systems as well as new gun systems with airburst rounds in 30mm and 57mm calibre....
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    Post  Sujoy Thu Dec 30, 2021 8:37 am

    GarryB wrote:S-300F is obsolete and is being replaced by Redut which on Corvettes and Frigates has S-350 missiles but they have said Redut is compatible with the full sized S-400 missiles meaning 250km and 400km range missiles should be compatible too.
    Anti ship ballistic missiles (Asbm) like the DF-21D does not leave the atmosphere. But they are capable of maneuvering towards the terminal phase. If a Russian carrier group is under Asbm attack, this will challenge the capabilities of a Redut
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    Post  bandit6 Thu Dec 30, 2021 1:19 pm

    Am just asking hypothetically, but would this system be able to intercept a hypersonic missile launched from Ukraine towards Russian territory? A missile like LRHW
    kvs
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    Post  kvs Thu Dec 30, 2021 2:00 pm

    bandit6 wrote:Am just asking hypothetically, but would this system be able to intercept a hypersonic missile launched from Ukraine towards Russian territory? A missile like LRHW

    The hypersonic missile will fly most of its path at high altitude. The S-500 should be able to intercept but the problem is the response
    time window. It has less than 5 minutes (more like less than 2.5 minutes) to react. It is pushing the point where the response has to
    be launched at almost the same time as the attack.

    The S-550 targets satellites and near space targets but the S-500 appears to be designed for middle and upper atmosphere targets.
    Putin and others have been talking about concurrent development of anti-hypersonic systems together with the hypersonic missles.
    This makes sense since Russia expects the west to field such weapons relatively soon.


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    Post  ALAMO Thu Dec 30, 2021 2:51 pm

    kvs wrote:
    bandit6 wrote:Am just asking hypothetically, but would this system be able to intercept a hypersonic missile launched from Ukraine towards Russian territory? A missile like LRHW
    The hypersonic missile will fly most of its path at high altitude.  The S-500 should be able to intercept but the problem is the response
    time window.   It has less than 5 minutes (more like less than 2.5 minutes) to react.   It is pushing the point where the response has to
    be launched at almost the same time as the attack.  
    The S-550 targets satellites and near space targets but the S-500 appears to be designed for middle and upper atmosphere targets.    
    Putin and others have been talking about concurrent development of anti-hypersonic systems together with the hypersonic missles.  
    This makes sense since Russia expects the west to field such weapons relatively soon.

    And that my friends will lead to AI commanded strategic air defense, with no human factor included.
    How risky that might be - well ... We all have seen the Terminator, right?
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    Post  Mir Thu Dec 30, 2021 2:57 pm

    bandit6 wrote:Am just asking hypothetically, but would this system be able to intercept a hypersonic missile launched from Ukraine towards Russian territory? A missile like LRHW

    If the US deploys these missiles in Ukraine or anywhere in Europe the best defense Russia could offer is to deploy hypersonic missiles in Cuba and Venezuela. That should get their attention. The Cuban Missile Crisis 2.

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    Post  ALAMO Thu Dec 30, 2021 3:05 pm

    Mir wrote:
    bandit6 wrote:Am just asking hypothetically, but would this system be able to intercept a hypersonic missile launched from Ukraine towards Russian territory? A missile like LRHW

    If the US deploys these missiles in Ukraine or anywhere in Europe the best defense Russia could offer is to deploy hypersonic missiles in Cuba and Venezuela. That should get their attention. The Cuban Missile Crisis 2.

    What for?
    Just make a floating base with USKS, and park it outside the US territorial waters, next to DC, LA and SF.
    That would gain more attention Laughing
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    Post  Arkanghelsk Thu Dec 30, 2021 3:08 pm

    The thing is Russia would not need to, a zircon equipped yasen would be impossible to find in the atlantic and with 1000km range, it could be anywhere off the coast to do damage to strategic sites.

    If Russia needed a visible deterrent against US, a Pair of TU160m permanently stationed at la orchila airbase in Venezuela protected by s500 since US is basing ABM near Russia, could be a good warning, once those bad boys are up, kh102 is coming and the 2 means nuclear...

    Other basing opportunity could be analogue of aegis ashore, maybe UKSK ashore? With many VLS carrying zircon ER , s400, kalibr... and in the deep of the Venezuelan jungle an extended range iskander/kinzhal? Or burevestnik

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    Post  Mir Thu Dec 30, 2021 3:43 pm

    ALAMO wrote:
    Mir wrote:
    bandit6 wrote:Am just asking hypothetically, but would this system be able to intercept a hypersonic missile launched from Ukraine towards Russian territory? A missile like LRHW

    If the US deploys these missiles in Ukraine or anywhere in Europe the best defense Russia could offer is to deploy hypersonic missiles in Cuba and Venezuela. That should get their attention. The Cuban Missile Crisis 2.

    What for?
    Just make a floating base with USKS, and park it outside the US territorial waters, next to DC, LA and SF.
    That would gain more attention Laughing

    A great idea but you need the political heaviness that comes from deploying missiles on Cuban and Venezuelan territory. The US don't like it one bit if you "interfere" in some country close to their borders. You need to rattle the eagle's feathers a bit Laughing
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    Post  bandit6 Thu Dec 30, 2021 5:30 pm

    kvs wrote:
    bandit6 wrote:Am just asking hypothetically, but would this system be able to intercept a hypersonic missile launched from Ukraine towards Russian territory? A missile like LRHW

    The hypersonic missile will fly most of its path at high altitude.  The S-500 should be able to intercept but the problem is the response
    time window.   It has less than 5 minutes (more like less than 2.5 minutes) to react.   It is pushing the point where the response has to
    be launched at almost the same time as the attack.  

    The S-550 targets satellites and near space targets but the S-500 appears to be designed for middle and upper atmosphere targets.    
    Putin and others have been talking about concurrent development of anti-hypersonic systems together with the hypersonic missles.  
    This makes sense since Russia expects the west to field such weapons relatively soon.



    Even with a 5 minute response time it would probably be impossible to intercept because of human factors. Before commands filter up and down the chain or maybe some equipment is down or personel are hesitant it means the country is very vulnerable. It would be very naive to trust any agreement, if they can stab France in the back and they are friends, then I see them putting weapons in Ukraine covertly. Russia is in a tight spot
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    Post  GarryB Fri Dec 31, 2021 12:30 pm

    The core problem is that for a defending system to stop such an attack it would need to be operating 24/7 to have any chance of seeing it in time to prepare the missile for launch to engage such a threat.

    Of course having said that the existing ABM system around Moscow is operating 24/7 and would detect a launch from the Ukraine... they could launch a few extended range air burst nuclear armed interceptors to fly past the incoming threat and explode over Kiev, while hit to kill interceptors stop it before it hits any target in Moscow.

    I would think the next action would be the total dismemberment of the regime in Kiev and US bases that are supporting them as the missile would clearly be US and under US control the next step might be a Zircon directed at the Pentagon...

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