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    Coronavirus pandemic 2019-20 #3

    flamming_python
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    Post  flamming_python Tue Apr 27, 2021 3:38 am

    kvs wrote:Sounds like India dragged its heels with Sputnik V.   Play stupid games, win stupid prizes.


    It dragged it's feet on Sputnik V, it allowed some multi-million gatherings on the streets, the exact thing that led to the Coronovirus crisis in Spain this time last year.

    And evidently it hadn't import-substituted crucial supplies or at least come up with some contingencies.
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    Post  flamming_python Tue Apr 27, 2021 5:07 am

    Russia is now in serious trouble though, it's just a matter of time until the ultra-contagious 3rd wave hits, and our vaccinated population is still only about 8-9% of the total.

    It's enough to take a look at the current worrying infection rates and death figures in Turkey - which has about the same vaccination rate as Russia does (albeit not necessarily with the most effective vaccines Wink)

    Hungary meanwhile has x4 Russia's vaccination rate, but even so has a lot of infections each day and huge death figures.

    In retrospect, jumping the gun on Spuntik V announcement, Putin not taking the vaccine immediately and underreporting COVID deaths have turned out to be bad moves.
    They've enabled a false sense of security and undermined trust in the vaccine.
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    Post  PapaDragon Tue Apr 27, 2021 5:37 am


    Nah, it's just good old natural selection

    Quality over quantity

    Vaccines have been readily available for months so with some exceptions any death that occurs from now on is the sole responsibility of person who got infected and nobody else's​

    Population which is getting sick now is much younger than before which means that idiots will be getting removed from the population before they get the chance to procreate and pollute the gene pool with ther inferior DNA

    If you need someone to convince you to do something as simple as taking a life saving vaccine then your life is worthless and redundant and the best thing you can do is to cease to exist, more worthy specimens will take the place you had unjustly occupied all this time



    lyle6
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    Post  lyle6 Tue Apr 27, 2021 5:45 am

    kvs wrote:But the skepticism is not healthy.   It is driven by western influencers.
    The youth maybe, but everyone else - I don't think Russians are sufficiently bilingual to be that susceptible to western messaging.

    PapaDragon wrote:
    Nah, it's just good old natural selection

    Quality over quantity

    Vaccines have been readily available for months so with some exceptions any death that occurs from now on is the sole responsibility of person who got infected and nobody else's​

    Population which is getting sick now is much younger than before which means that idiots will be getting removed from the population before they get the chance to procreate and pollute the gene pool with ther inferior DNA

    If you need someone to convince you to do something as simple as taking a life saving vaccine then your life is worthless and redundant and the best thing you can do is to cease to exist, more worthy specimens will take the place you had unjustly occupied all this time

    Its the exact opposite. As usual its the people with the strong genetic profile that would survive - the ones who don't need a vaccine to reinforce their immune systems against a gay version of the cold. A vaccine can only do so much for your inferior genetics and with luck or by design might even remove you from the gene pool anyway.

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    Post  Sujoy Tue Apr 27, 2021 7:19 am

    JohninMK wrote:Our second most powerful politician, the Chancellor, is Indian. Do you honestly believe he would let that happen? Sole intention FFS?
    He is a British Indian not an Indian. Most Indians living in the U.K are descendants of slaves.
    When the second wave was at its peak in the U.K why did the U.K government force India to re open flight routes between the two countries knowing fully well that the U.K variant is even more deadly? Now to cover up their crime the U.K government is suggesting that the second wave in India has been triggered by a so called "Indian variant".

    Covid variant B.1.617, nicknamed “double mutant,” was first detected in UK in February. India detected this variant in March, reporting it to GISAID Initiative.
    https://www.gisaid.org/hcov19-variants/

    So, how did it become the "Indian variant"?

    flamming_python wrote:It dragged it's feet on Sputnik V,

    A MoU with Russia was signed almost immediately after trials of Sputnik V were over. India will receive the first consignment of Sputnik V on May 1st

    https://www.livemint.com/news/india/india-to-receive-first-batch-of-russia-s-sputnik-v-vaccine-on-may-1-rdif-11619481002481.html

    flamming_python wrote:it allowed some multi-million gatherings on the streets, the exact thing that led to the Coronovirus crisis in Spain this time last year.
    The states worst affected Delhi, Maharashtra are not states where such gatherings took place. Just that the density of population in India is a lot more than Russia, so the virus spreads rapidly.
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    Post  higurashihougi Tue Apr 27, 2021 8:22 am

    PapaDragon wrote:
    Nah, it's just good old natural selection

    Quality over quantity

    Vaccines have been readily available for months so with some exceptions any death that occurs from now on is the sole responsibility of person who got infected and nobody else's​

    Population which is getting sick now is much younger than before which means that idiots will be getting removed from the population before they get the chance to procreate and pollute the gene pool with ther inferior DNA

    If you need someone to convince you to do something as simple as taking a life saving vaccine then your life is worthless and redundant and the best thing you can do is to cease to exist, more worthy specimens will take the place you had unjustly occupied all this time

    No.

    Human is a highly social species and they have been developed enough to be less and less reliant on their innate biological traits. The success or failure of a certain person depends heavily on his social status, wealth, and relationship. Not their DNA.

    The DNA of Bill Gates, Jeff Bezos or other billionaires is not better than you or me, and not correspond to their wealth. Not to mention that their success is definitely not base on a fair game at all.

    Please stop propagating the racist idea of the Nazi that your ancestors fought so hard to drive them off.

    If it is just one or several individuals then it may be safe to blame the personal fault. But when the ratio is significant then there is something more worrisome. If you dig the case deep enough you will see in many circumstance it is the system's fault for the shortcomings of its own people.

    The huge spread of Covid-19 in the West is the crime of the capitalism when they put profit over people, and create an extremely disproportionate system, both in healthcare and education and information, where a few rich enjoy too much at the expense of the majority, and any attempt to inform the people could be mercilessly purged if that go against the profit of the 1% top.

    And the young people are the working people, the manpower that every country is relied on to make money. Illnesses and deaths in the young people means severe damage to the workforce and the economy in the long term. The longer and broader the pandemic is, the damage becomes more severe. That is why the West had a economic slump while countries like China enjoyed a recover after the initial lockdown.
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    Post  GarryB Tue Apr 27, 2021 12:00 pm

    Its the exact opposite. As usual its the people with the strong genetic profile that would survive - the ones who don't need a vaccine to reinforce their immune systems against a gay version of the cold. A vaccine can only do so much for your inferior genetics and with luck or by design might even remove you from the gene pool anyway.

    Strength means nothing when it comes to disease... what does strong genetic profile even mean... is it a pure bred person with little genetic diversity, or is it a mongrel with all sorts of bits of genes from all over the place?

    Europeans have lived together like animals for centuries and they natural immunity to european diseases is robust, but tropical diseases knock them over pretty damn easy and vice versa... european diseases killed a lot of people around the world because they had never encountered them before and had no immunity at all.

    This is a super contagious version of a cold... so contagious that the normal flu has all but disappeared because everyone is washing their hands and keeping away from other people and people with minor flu symptoms are seeing their doctor instead of ignoring it and trying to work through it.

    What PD says has merit... anti vaxxers keep saying all these terrible things about what happens if you get vaccinated... lets see what they think of the virus.
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    Post  elconquistador Tue Apr 27, 2021 1:41 pm

    What people think of this virus has been stated many times in this thread, go a couple of pages back if you are really interested

    This study was recently quoted by the WHO on its website. 0.15 IFR. Literally the flu, but with 24/7 media attention, fear mongering and scary graphs, images and music on top of it

    https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/33768536/

    Strength means nothing when it comes to disease...

    The rest of your post is straight up weird, with tons of half truths, misplaced assumptions, flawed logic and the usual anti-European butthurt.

    The part above made me cringe the most though.
    lyle6
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    Post  lyle6 Tue Apr 27, 2021 1:55 pm

    GarryB wrote:
    Strength means nothing when it comes to disease... what does strong genetic profile even mean... is it a pure bred person with little genetic diversity, or is it a mongrel with all sorts of bits of genes from all over the place?
    It just means European. The presence of non-European ancestry in your genetics is enough to significantly improve your chances of getting hospitalized after catching the coof.
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    Post  elconquistador Tue Apr 27, 2021 2:13 pm

    lyle6 wrote:
    GarryB wrote:
    Strength means nothing when it comes to disease... what does strong genetic profile even mean... is it a pure bred person with little genetic diversity, or is it a mongrel with all sorts of bits of genes from all over the place?
    It just means European. The presence of non-European ancestry in your genetics is enough to significantly improve your chances of getting hospitalized after catching the coof.

    You've got some stats, studies and numbers on that?

    People in Africa are doing just fine.

    Any discrepancies in rates in the Western world can be easily explained by looking at obesity rates, lifestyle choices, lack of vitamins D exposure (related to low sun intensity/high melamine count) and the prevalence of kidney diseases, diabetes and cardiovascular diseases
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    Post  kvs Tue Apr 27, 2021 2:33 pm

    A point was made upthread about vaccines being support for genetically inferior immune systems. That is not valid. For example some
    people are naturally immune to HIV (AIDS) because they lack the protein structure that the virus uses to bind to T4 cells. Their immune
    system has nothing to do with their immunity. Everyone else who gets it is screwed and only thanks to massive intervention with a brew
    of drugs can they live long enough not to be killed off by common pathogens found in every human. There is now some possibility for
    a vaccine:

    https://www.aa.com.tr/en/latest-on-coronavirus-outbreak/russia-has-made-prototypes-of-hiv-vaccine-official/2062200

    The other detail is that Covid-19 and similar are new virus variants in the human population and start out having more virulence until
    a new equilibrium is reached with the population with initial culls. Humanity is lucky that Covid-19 is a glorified flu and not the Black Death
    so we are not seeing 1/3 dying. A vaccine is not given to people who have already had a disease and lived, even it can act as a booster
    for their immune system in the sense of producing new variants of antibodies to attack different parts of the virus shell. No human immune
    system generates vast numbers of distinct antibodies to attack every part of a virus, the feedback mechanism selects the initial successful
    antibody which is generated en masse. Vaccines have utility by training the immune system without infecting the body. The robustness
    of the immune system is not relevant.

    No human genetic blend is universally able to overcome every species of virus. The concept behind a vaccine is clearly correct and
    necessary unless death is the preferred option.
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    Post  lyle6 Tue Apr 27, 2021 2:34 pm

    elconquistador wrote:
    You've got some stats, studies and numbers on that?

    Here: https://www.nature.com/articles/s41588-021-00854-7/tables/2

    elconquistador wrote:
    People in Africa are doing just fine.

    Any discrepancies in rates in the Western world can be easily explained by looking at obesity rates, lifestyle choices, lack of vitamins D exposure (related to low sun intensity/high melamine count) and the prevalence of kidney diseases, diabetes and cardiovascular diseases

    The median age in Africa is something like 20 years younger at least. The abysmal state of transportation (Africa's huge) also doesn't leave much room for populations to mingle their germs. There's also the possibility of underreporting going on.



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    Post  lyle6 Tue Apr 27, 2021 2:45 pm

    kvs wrote:A point was made upthread about vaccines being support for genetically inferior immune systems.   That is not valid.    For example some
    people are naturally immune to HIV (AIDS) because they lack the protein structure that the virus uses to bind to T4 cells.   Their immune
    system has nothing to do with their immunity.   Everyone else who gets it is screwed and only thanks to massive intervention with a brew
    of drugs can they live long enough not to be killed off by common pathogens found in every human.    There is now some possibility for
    a vaccine:

    https://www.aa.com.tr/en/latest-on-coronavirus-outbreak/russia-has-made-prototypes-of-hiv-vaccine-official/2062200

    The other detail is that Covid-19 and similar are new virus variants in the human population and start out having more virulence until
    a new equilibrium is reached with the population with initial culls.   Humanity is lucky that Covid-19 is a glorified flu and not the Black Death
    so we are not seeing 1/3 dying.   A vaccine is not given to people who have already had a disease and lived, even it can act as a booster
    for their immune system in the sense of producing new variants of antibodies to attack different parts of the virus shell.   No human immune
    system generates vast numbers of distinct antibodies to attack every part of a virus, the feedback mechanism selects the initial successful
    antibody which is generated en masse.    Vaccines have utility by training the immune system without infecting the body.    The robustness
    of the immune system is not relevant.  

    No human genetic blend is universally able to overcome every species of virus.   The concept behind a vaccine is clearly correct and
    necessary unless death is the preferred option.
    Hmm, I see. kvs can you recommend me some books on the subject? It seems I have to do some more reading on this topic.
    And apologies for everyone who have been subject to my brand of misinformation Embarassed
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    Post  elconquistador Tue Apr 27, 2021 2:59 pm

    lyle6 wrote:

    Here: https://www.nature.com/articles/s41588-021-00854-7/tables/2

    These findings do not rule out my statements above.


    The median age in Africa is something like 20 years younger at least. The abysmal state of transportation (Africa's huge) also doesn't leave much room for populations to mingle their germs. There's also the possibility of underreporting going on.

    I guess you've never been to Africa because this represention is a polar opposite of what the continent actually looks like.

    Extremely high population density, low hygienic standards amongst the general population and yes, they do have modes of transportion other then their own feet. Some of the worst traffic can be found in places like Nairobi or Lagos
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    Post  elconquistador Tue Apr 27, 2021 3:15 pm

    @kvs

    COVID1984 vaccines are nor vaccines in the original sense of the word.

    They are gene therapeutics using the very same principle of 'feeding' our cell's ribosomes the mRNA strand which starts the protein biosynthesis of producing the spike-protein antigen to which the immune system ultimately responds.

    Both manipulate our own cells into producing what should actually be the 'vaccine' (the spike-protein antigens). That is a very dangerous effect (however ingenious in theory) all the rogue scientists warn us about. Potentially leading to auto immune diseases, antibody dependent enhancement etc.


    Aside from that I don't need nor want vaccines for a disease with a 0.15 IFR. I'll take my chances thank you very much.

    Some shady stuff found in the Pfizer brew bytheway

    https://scivisionpub.com/pdfs/covid19-rna-based-vaccines-and-the-risk-of-prion-disease-1503.pdf

    https://www.globalresearch.ca/report-pfizer-vaccine-confirmed-cause-neurodegenerative-diseases-study/5743522

    From the article

    Methods Pfizer’s RNA based vaccine against COVID-19 was evaluated for the potential to convert TDP-43 and or FUS to their prion based Microbiol Infect Dis, 2021 Volume 5 | Issue 1 | 2 of 3 disease causing states. The vaccine RNA was analyzed for the presence of sequences that can activate TDP-43 and FUS. The interaction of the transcribed spike protein with its target was analyzed to determine if this action could also activate TDP-43 and FUS. Results Analysis of the Pfizer vaccine against COVID-19 identified two potential risk factors for inducing prion disease is humans. The RNA sequence in the vaccine [3] contains sequences believed to induce TDP-43 and FUS to aggregate in their prion based conformation leading to the development of common neurodegerative diseases. In particular it has been shown that RNA sequences GGUA [4], UG UG rich sequences [5], UG tandem repeats [6], and G Quadruplex sequences [7], have increased affinity to bind TDP-43 and or FUS and may cause TDP-43 or FUS to take their pathologic configurations in the cytoplasm. In the current analysis a total of sixteen UG tandem repeats (ΨGΨG) were identified and additional UG (ΨG) rich sequences were identified. Two GGΨA sequences were found. G Quadruplex sequences are possibly present but sophisticated computer programs are needed to verify these. The spike protein encoded by the vaccine binds angiotensin converting enzyme 2 (ACE2), an enzyme which contains zinc molecules [8]. The binding of spike protein to ACE2 has the potential to release the zinc molecule, an ion that causes TDP-43 to assume its pathologic prion transformation [9].


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    Post  franco Tue Apr 27, 2021 9:07 pm

    MOSCOW, April 27. / TASS /. The approximate date for achieving collective immunity to coronavirus infection in Russia is September 2021, Russian Deputy Prime Minister Tatyana Golikova said at a meeting of the Council of Legislators at the Federal Assembly on Tuesday.

    "The approximate date for achieving herd immunity in the Russian Federation is September 2021. It is different in different regions. It all depends on the intensity of vaccination," she said.

    Earlier, Golikova indicated August 2021 as the approximate date for achieving herd immunity, noting that in the event of an increase in the rate of vaccination, this period may be shifted to an earlier period. Currently, more than 7 million people in Russia have been vaccinated with both components of the vaccine, and almost 4.8 million Russians have had coronavirus infection. To achieve herd immunity, according to her estimates, it is necessary to vaccinate 60% of the population, that is, almost 69 million people.
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    Post  kvs Tue Apr 27, 2021 10:07 pm

    @elconquistador

    You are preaching to the choir. AstraZeneca is a relatively conservative vaccine and similar to the adenovirus vector type as with Sputnik V.
    Pfizer is GMO rubbish. We covered this subject previously.


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    Post  kvs Tue Apr 27, 2021 11:04 pm

    https://twitter.com/ArthurSchwartz/status/1387106148994650117

    When Tucker Carlson said it was ridiculous to tell vaccinated people they had
    to wear masks in these settings he was attacked as an anti-science murderer. Why is
    a talk show host months ahead of the CDC?

    Jennifer Epstein
    @jeneps
    · 4h
    NEW: The CDC is updating its guidance on masks, saying that fully vaccinated people
    can be unmasked when exercising, socializing and dining outdoors in small groups. Can
    gather indoors with other fully vaccinated people without masks or distancing.
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    Post  GarryB Wed Apr 28, 2021 9:01 am

    The part above made me cringe the most though.

    What, that strength has nothing to do with disease?

    Are you trying to say I could go to the Gym and work out 5 hours every day to become strong and that will somehow make me resistant to malaria or polio?

    What people think of this virus has been stated many times in this thread, go a couple of pages back if you are really interested

    Different people are effected differently and the concept of strength is meaningless in this regard... the million people this virus has killed world wide haven't posted anything on this forum... should I ignore their views?

    It just means European. The presence of non-European ancestry in your genetics is enough to significantly improve your chances of getting hospitalized after catching the coof.

    Well that is just plain wrong too because plenty of europeans are dead because of this disease... it seems to be more about age than about skin colour.

    People in Africa are doing just fine.

    People in India and central and south america are not... I rather suspect your opinion is skewed by the fact that most western media don't care about the rest of the world leading to their problems being under reported.

    Any discrepancies in rates in the Western world can be easily explained by looking at obesity rates, lifestyle choices, lack of vitamins D exposure (related to low sun intensity/high melamine count) and the prevalence of kidney diseases, diabetes and cardiovascular diseases

    Would be the majority in many places in the west.

    No human genetic blend is universally able to overcome every species of virus. The concept behind a vaccine is clearly correct and
    necessary unless death is the preferred option.

    Agreed... as I pointed out many european diseases most europeans are immune to, and those diseases are dangerous to those who have never encountered them before from other groups, but there are plenty of diseases out there that europeans are vulnerable to too.


    The median age in Africa is something like 20 years younger at least. The abysmal state of transportation (Africa's huge) also doesn't leave much room for populations to mingle their germs. There's also the possibility of underreporting going on.

    Part of the reason there are so many dead Americans is their mobility and international travel points... not to mention more older people and obesity and diabetes etc etc...

    When Tucker Carlson said it was ridiculous to tell vaccinated people they had
    to wear masks in these settings he was attacked as an anti-science murderer. Why is
    a talk show host months ahead of the CDC?

    Just because you are vaccinated does not mean you can't be a carrier of the virus... the most dangerous people are those that have no symptoms when they have the virus because they wont get checked out and will spread the disease without realising it to people who will be effected by it.
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    Post  Vann7 Wed Apr 28, 2021 11:00 pm

    pfizer serious side effects noticed on some people , doctors confirm problems of serious sides effects
    with pfizer vaccine ,pfizer company then downplay it and blame people for it. Testimony recorded.
    and this is one of those rare american local media ,that don't hide or ignore the problems with
    anglo western vaccines.


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    Post  kvs Wed Apr 28, 2021 11:20 pm


    Just because you are vaccinated does not mean you can't be a carrier of the virus... the most dangerous people are those that have no symptoms when they have the virus because they wont get checked out and will spread the disease without realising it to people who will be effected by it.

    That is obvious and not the issue in this case. The clowns running the show do not understand the science and have other agendas they are pimping.

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    Post  GarryB Thu Apr 29, 2021 9:23 am

    pfizer serious side effects noticed on some people , doctors confirm problems of serious sides effects
    with pfizer vaccine ,pfizer company then downplay it and blame people for it. Testimony recorded.
    and this is one of those rare american local media ,that don't hide or ignore the problems with
    anglo western vaccines.

    A sensible post...

    That the Pfizer company wants to reduce the world population for the 1% or illuminati, I do not believe, but that they will hide problems with their product so it keeps selling well rather than properly investigating the problems and perhaps modifying the vaccine or changing the parameters of who should be getting it, is the real problem and a more sensible area of discussion.
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    Post  Sujoy Thu Apr 29, 2021 10:07 am

    Two Faced Britain

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    Post  JohninMK Thu Apr 29, 2021 10:50 am

    Sujoy wrote:Two Faced Britain
    Get a grip. The two statements are not mutually exclusive. Our help is aimed at hospitals, oxygen production and ventilators.

    Your factories churn out lots more AZ vaccine than we do, direct your ire at them for not making more. They have stopped at least 5M maybe 10M doses that were contracted to us.
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    Post  Regular Thu Apr 29, 2021 1:11 pm

    Brazil Says Russian Covid Vaccine Carried Live Cold Virus

    https://www.ndtv.com/world-news/brazil-says-russian-covid-19-vaccine-sputnik-v-carried-live-cold-virus-2424044


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