Russia Defence Forum

Would you like to react to this message? Create an account in a few clicks or log in to continue.

Military Forum for Russian and Global Defence Issues


    The Situation in the Ukraine. #29

    avatar
    bitcointrader70

    Posts : 55
    Points : 57
    Join date : 2021-04-15

    The Situation in the Ukraine. #29 - Page 38 Empty Re: The Situation in the Ukraine. #29

    Post  bitcointrader70 Tue May 04, 2021 9:39 pm

    miketheterrible wrote:
    JohninMK wrote:
    bitcointrader70 wrote:
    Putin bans all opposition. Not just the western funded ones.

    You have just moved yourself into the dunce's corner.

    If that was the case, then Sobchak wouldn't have been allowed to partake in elections. Or yabloko would have been banned.

    These are examples.

    lyle6 wrote:You and your family are a genuine genus of retards. If you can't understand that people would rather their trust and vote in some dude who's only been delivering results for 20 years than in some literal nobody on the premise that he isn't the first dude's pick, notwithstanding the possibility of yet another lame duck comprador in that candidate, I have very bad news for you.

    I think this guy is forgetting that his northern neighbor, Canada (we), had people like Critean in power for 10 years. Or the fact Merkel in Germany served as chancellor since 2005.

    No one screams for "democracy" for these cases.

    Who cares?  Russians get to choose who they vote for. They chose Putin. Bitcoin the numbnuts doesn't realize Navalny the traitor is rather unpopular. Sobchak is unpopular. People like Chubias and alike are unpopular.

    Only other parties that get good ratings are commies and the nationalists.  That should say a lot.  Yabloko ended up losing more seats from last elections.

    Sobchak is a Instagram western wannabe celebrity. Most people in Russia think she is a whore and a clown. Trying so hard to be a western IG model. Are you seriously suggesting that she is LEGIT opposition? She ran for office so she could get more likes on Instagram and probably drop a sex tape soon. Yabloko I don’t know much about them but from my understand they are mostly about local elections?
    kvs
    kvs

    Posts : 10282
    Points : 10429
    Join date : 2014-09-11
    Location : Canuckistan

    The Situation in the Ukraine. #29 - Page 38 Empty Re: The Situation in the Ukraine. #29

    Post  kvs Tue May 04, 2021 10:25 pm

    Backman wrote:
    bitcointrader70 wrote:Ukrainians are losers and useless pawns. Russia can smack Ukraine around all day long and this website will jack off about Putin all day long but US and the cabal are winners in this fight. Russia can’t play defense forever.

    The fact that after 21 years Putin has to continue to extend his presidency and can’t step down and hold honest elections...

    Your definition of honest elections seems to be , if you don't allow a US NGO free for all within the country, its not an honest election. That sir, is a crock of shit.

    Mikhail Gorbachev was asked what is more important, the constitution that says that leaders have to change. Or the will of the people. And he said that the will of the people is more important. Which means he knows, just as we all know, that Putin will win any honest election. Letting an NGO free for all happen, just to prove that Putin can win an "honest election" is a pointless exercise.

    starts at 6:18. Time stamp links never seem to work

    qYVsKoQXATY?t=414

    America does not allow foreign election observers. During a recent US election we had authorities in Texas threatening to arrest any foreign election
    observers. But Russia is supposed to allow Soros sock puppet "NGOs" to have free reign to meddle in its elections.

    Russians are clearly no longer caring what western fcuks think and believe. When they hear clowns like bit-tard yammer on about Russia without the
    first clue about it, they can only cringe.

    Maximmmm, miketheterrible and Backman like this post

    lyle6
    lyle6

    Posts : 671
    Points : 673
    Join date : 2020-09-14
    Location : Philippines

    The Situation in the Ukraine. #29 - Page 38 Empty Re: The Situation in the Ukraine. #29

    Post  lyle6 Tue May 04, 2021 10:42 pm

    bitcointrader70 wrote:
    Everyone in my family over there voted for Putin. This isn’t about now. This is about 5, 10,15, and 20 years from now.

    Globalist have plans for decades and even a hundred years ahead. Russia will need a strong constitutional republic power structure to deal with corruption and protect the state even if a weak leader gets elected. So far we aren’t even close. It’s Russia against the world. I know it’s not fair but that’s how it is.

    So they are not only retards, but hypocritical and cowardly ones at that.

    Call it a lateral upgrade?

    But in any case, I find it laughable that you keep on harping about a 'strong constitutional republic power structure' or whatever when by all accounts Putin and his accomplices have achieved significant process in creating a resilient body of institutions where there hasn't been one before. There are still lots of work to be done in ensuring a more stable system for sure, but at least its not the dysfunctional wreck you see in third world countries and increasingy in the West.

    bitcointrader70 wrote:
    Sobchak is a Instagram western wannabe celebrity. Most people in Russia think she is a whore and a clown. Trying so hard to be a western IG model. Are you seriously suggesting that she is LEGIT opposition? She ran for office so she could get more likes on Instagram and probably drop a sex tape soon. Yabloko I don’t know much about them but from my understand they are mostly about local elections?
    Opposition only means you are against the ruling clique. That she could only garner a minority of the votes is exactly why she is opposition and not the incumbent.

    miketheterrible, LMFS and Hole like this post

    Backman
    Backman

    Posts : 835
    Points : 845
    Join date : 2020-11-11

    The Situation in the Ukraine. #29 - Page 38 Empty Re: The Situation in the Ukraine. #29

    Post  Backman Tue May 04, 2021 11:42 pm

    bitcointrader70 wrote:
    Backman wrote:
    bitcointrader70 wrote:Ukrainians are losers and useless pawns. Russia can smack Ukraine around all day long and this website will jack off about Putin all day long but US and the cabal are winners in this fight. Russia can’t play defense forever.

    The fact that after 21 years Putin has to continue to extend his presidency and can’t step down and hold honest elections...

    Your definition of honest elections seems to be , if you don't allow a US NGO free for all within the country, its not an honest election. That sir, is a crock of shit.

    Mikhail Gorbachev was asked what is more important, the constitution that says that leaders have to change. Or the will of the people. And he said that the will of the people is more important. Which means he knows, just as we all know, that Putin will win any honest election. Letting an NGO free for all happen, just to prove that Putin can win an "honest election" is a pointless exercise.

    starts at 6:18. Time stamp links never seem to work

    LOL no sorry buddy Putin is correct to ban NGOs. I wish we would do the same stateside. Putin doesn’t allow any legitimate opposition to run for office. He doesn’t participate in debates. And their is no opposing party. The communist party and the “ultra nationalist” Liberal Democrat’s are part of Putin’s power structure.

    Putin bans all opposition. Not just the western funded ones.
    No he doesn't. You've been manipulated. He  bans any pro US ticket. 

    The only reason the western media says that the commi or Libdem party is part of Putin/United Russia's power structure , is because they agree with Putin in foreign policy. Just as the Republican and Democrats agree with each other on foreign policy. Or Labor and Tories in the UK.
    Finty
    Finty

    Posts : 235
    Points : 241
    Join date : 2021-02-10
    Location : Great Britain

    The Situation in the Ukraine. #29 - Page 38 Empty Re: The Situation in the Ukraine. #29

    Post  Finty Tue May 04, 2021 11:53 pm

    Seeing VICE mentioned reminds me of where I got some of my info regarding Crimea/ Donbass back in 2014/15 when it happened, then I recently re-watched the series a few months ago as I got more interested in Russian affairs, ironically just before things start kicking off again. Overall I thought Russian Roulette was a decent series, I imagine the consensus here is negative towards it but I'd like to know what you guys disliked about it. I ask this out of curiosity, doesn't affect me personally as I don't work for VICE.
    PapaDragon
    PapaDragon

    Posts : 11077
    Points : 11151
    Join date : 2015-04-26
    Location : Fort Evil, Serbia

    The Situation in the Ukraine. #29 - Page 38 Empty Re: The Situation in the Ukraine. #29

    Post  PapaDragon Wed May 05, 2021 12:48 am


    Based on the raw amount of pointless crap being posted here lately am I to assume that nothing of note has been happening in the Ukraine lately?

    Manov, VARGR198 and miketheterrible like this post

    LMFS
    LMFS

    Posts : 3783
    Points : 3785
    Join date : 2018-03-03

    The Situation in the Ukraine. #29 - Page 38 Empty Re: The Situation in the Ukraine. #29

    Post  LMFS Wed May 05, 2021 12:53 am

    bitcointrader70 wrote:I have family who live in Russia who are nationalists and patriots who themselves will admit there is no chance for a non Putin favored political party or candidate. Putin failed to create an honest republic and that’s why he clamps down hard. There is almost zero none controlled opposition in Russia.

    Please ponder more carefully what trolling line you want to follow, you said before that the important thing is to win, and Putin by crushing all opposition is certainly wining and avoiding any illegitimate interest to ruin Russia. When he thinks it is the time to retire (he has given himself the amplest time frame for that), he will designate a successor and by controlling the opposition the same he does now (and the same way it happened with Yeltsin), he will ensure the continuation of the regime. He should be your hero.

    ... now seriously, you all are boring trolls without any respectable discourse. More absurd with every passing day and every Russian victory over idiots, nazis, libtards, malcontents and traitors, your troll future looks grim unshaven


    Last edited by LMFS on Wed May 05, 2021 1:04 am; edited 1 time in total
    JohninMK
    JohninMK

    Posts : 8955
    Points : 9052
    Join date : 2015-06-16
    Location : England

    The Situation in the Ukraine. #29 - Page 38 Empty Re: The Situation in the Ukraine. #29

    Post  JohninMK Wed May 05, 2021 1:04 am

    PapaDragon wrote:
    Based on the raw amount of pointless crap being posted here lately am I to assume that nothing of note has been happening in the Ukraine lately?

    Pretty much. Just the 'normal' random shelling. No indication of any withdrawal. Maybe some shelling will become non random.

    PapaDragon likes this post

    auslander
    auslander

    Posts : 1416
    Points : 1496
    Join date : 2015-04-25

    The Situation in the Ukraine. #29 - Page 38 Empty Re: The Situation in the Ukraine. #29

    Post  auslander Wed May 05, 2021 3:42 am

    PapaDragon wrote:
    Based on the raw amount of pointless crap being posted here lately am I to assume that nothing of note has been happening in the Ukraine lately?

    Timoshenko had another face lift, her 67th, and she now has a lovely little beard and her glandular enhancements (tits for the unwashed and uninformed) are hanging down her back. Da clown saw a mouse chewing on an orc flag and called a conclave of the Unmagnificent Five, LandofPoles/Pre/Tre/WhoGivesAFornicationBaltica/orcland to demand a ununited silliness in NYC investigation of this new and flagrant Russian provocation/invasion/fartstorm.

    Our three children serving up there are good. Fighting is occasionally intense in various locations but not long lasting. The casualty list, civilian and military, continues to grow.

    franco, kvs, JohninMK, VARGR198 and LMFS like this post

    avatar
    owais.usmani

    Posts : 704
    Points : 704
    Join date : 2019-03-27
    Age : 35

    The Situation in the Ukraine. #29 - Page 38 Empty Re: The Situation in the Ukraine. #29

    Post  owais.usmani Wed May 05, 2021 1:52 pm

    Hillaroius account of Ukranians peeing their pants in sea of Azov just on the sight of a Russian coast guard ship Laughing

    https://edition.cnn.com/2021/05/04/europe/ukraine-russia-sea-of-azov-tension/index.html

    VARGR198 likes this post

    flamming_python
    flamming_python

    Posts : 4642
    Points : 4728
    Join date : 2012-01-30

    The Situation in the Ukraine. #29 - Page 38 Empty Re: The Situation in the Ukraine. #29

    Post  flamming_python Wed May 05, 2021 10:50 pm

    Backman wrote:
    bitcointrader70 wrote:Ukrainians are losers and useless pawns. Russia can smack Ukraine around all day long and this website will jack off about Putin all day long but US and the cabal are winners in this fight. Russia can’t play defense forever.

    The fact that after 21 years Putin has to continue to extend his presidency and can’t step down and hold honest elections...

    Your definition of honest elections seems to be , if you don't allow a US NGO free for all within the country, its not an honest election. That sir, is a crock of shit.

    Mikhail Gorbachev was asked what is more important, the constitution that says that leaders have to change. Or the will of the people. And he said that the will of the people is more important. Which means he knows, just as we all know, that Putin will win any honest election. Letting an NGO free for all happen, just to prove that Putin can win an "honest election" is a pointless exercise.

    starts at 6:18. Time stamp links never seem to work


    Gorby busy selling whatever of his dignity is left to the next foreign news agency and then the next one

    They didn't even allow him to get into his seat before they started filming

    Classic
    mavaff
    mavaff

    Posts : 53
    Points : 55
    Join date : 2021-03-26

    The Situation in the Ukraine. #29 - Page 38 Empty Re: The Situation in the Ukraine. #29

    Post  mavaff Thu May 06, 2021 9:37 am

    If France wants to intervene in the situation in Donbass, Russia will respond very harshly.

    Against the background of information that appeared that the French side is ready to sell its Dassault Rafale fighters to Ukraine for use in the Donbass and against Russia, since today the Ukrainian Air Force is not enough to carry out such operations, it became known that the Russian side was ready to be tough to respond to such claims of Paris, which recently announced its readiness to further advance the peace process of resolving the situation in the region. In response to the actions of France, short- and medium-range anti-aircraft missile systems may well appear in service with the DPR and LPR, which will allow them to hit the French Rafale even before the latter enter the strike zone.

    The sale of French Rafale fighters to Kiev was previously reported by the Eurasian Times.

    “Ukraine has not bought a single new fighter jet in the three decades since the collapse of the Soviet Union. However, the Air Force is still a small unit in need of improvement, and France can help. France has been busy selling its latest fourth-generation fighter jet produced by Dassault Aviation lately, and Rafale could be a game changer to defend Ukraine against Russia, according to Sebastian Roblin. Last year, Kiev announced that it would modernize its Air Force fleet, spending up to $ 7.5 billion over the next fifteen years and purchasing 36-42 new fighters, and Paris is carefully considering this as a potential deal with Rafale, ”the material said.

    Given the fact that Russia is ready to counteract any attempts of Ukraine to forcefully solve the problem in Donbass, the LDNR may well be armed with Russian Pantsir-S air defense missile systems, Buk-M2E complexes and other air defense systems, and in this case, near Kiev very serious problems will begin, not to mention the very serious damage to France's reputation will also be done.

    The Turkish media previously reported that the Russian complexes "Krasukha-4" and "Pantsir" had already been seen in the Donbass, however, no evidence of this was presented.


    https://avia.pro/news/francuzskie-rafale-budut-sbity-na-podlyote-esli-popytayutsya-nanesti-udary-po-donbassu

    VARGR198 and Finty like this post

    lancelot
    lancelot

    Posts : 460
    Points : 462
    Join date : 2020-10-18

    The Situation in the Ukraine. #29 - Page 38 Empty Re: The Situation in the Ukraine. #29

    Post  lancelot Thu May 06, 2021 10:34 am

    Let the French dump money into that cesspit which is Ukraine.
    It will be a nice way to test the Su-57 against Western fighters.

    miketheterrible likes this post

    JohninMK
    JohninMK

    Posts : 8955
    Points : 9052
    Join date : 2015-06-16
    Location : England

    The Situation in the Ukraine. #29 - Page 38 Empty Re: The Situation in the Ukraine. #29

    Post  JohninMK Thu May 06, 2021 11:00 am

    mavaff wrote: Last year, Kiev announced that it would modernize its Air Force fleet, spending up to $ 7.5 billion over the next fifteen years and purchasing 36-42 new fighters, and Paris is carefully considering this as a potential deal with Rafale, ”the material said.

    That's $500M a year, or 2-3 aircraft a year, well beyond what they can afford.

    Mind you, there will be so few that they should be fairly safe as they will be hard to find Laughing

    kvs, auslander and VARGR198 like this post

    JohninMK
    JohninMK

    Posts : 8955
    Points : 9052
    Join date : 2015-06-16
    Location : England

    The Situation in the Ukraine. #29 - Page 38 Empty Re: The Situation in the Ukraine. #29

    Post  JohninMK Thu May 06, 2021 4:06 pm

    More 'We are right behind you and you can count on our support' said reliable ally.

    Status-6
    @Archer83Able

    Ukraine's President Zelensky called today's meeting with US Secretary of State Blinken a 'meaningful' one, and said that this year will be 'fundamental' for the relations between Ukraine and the US.

    Zelensky says around 75,000 Russian troops remain in Crimea, Donbas and along the border with Ukraine. According to the President of Ukraine, their number is decreasing very slowly.

    Blinken: "Together with our partners, we are working to ensure that Ukraine can protect itself from Russian aggression."

    Zelensky invited US President Joe Biden to pay an official visit to Ukraine.

    Blinken announced support for the sovereignty, territorial integrity and independence of Ukraine from the United States and the G7 countries.

    Zelensky after a meeting with Blinken says Ukraine and the US 'united' on the issue of the Nord Stream 2.

    (Interfax-Ukraine)

    VARGR198, lancelot and Finty like this post

    VARGR198
    VARGR198

    Posts : 143
    Points : 145
    Join date : 2015-08-09

    The Situation in the Ukraine. #29 - Page 38 Empty Re: The Situation in the Ukraine. #29

    Post  VARGR198 Thu May 06, 2021 4:41 pm

    JohninMK wrote:More 'We are right behind you and you can count on our support' said reliable ally.

    Status-6
    @Archer83Able

    Ukraine's President Zelensky called today's meeting with US Secretary of State Blinken a 'meaningful' one, and said that this year will be 'fundamental' for the relations between Ukraine and the US.

    Zelensky says around 75,000 Russian troops remain in Crimea, Donbas and along the border with Ukraine. According to the President of Ukraine, their number is decreasing very slowly.

    Blinken: "Together with our partners, we are working to ensure that Ukraine can protect itself from Russian aggression."

    Zelensky invited US President Joe Biden to pay an official visit to Ukraine.

    Blinken announced support for the sovereignty, territorial integrity and independence of Ukraine from the United States and the G7 countries.

    Zelensky after a meeting with Blinken says Ukraine and the US 'united' on the issue of the Nord Stream 2.

    (Interfax-Ukraine)

    And that last line gives away what it is all really about. Nord Stream 2. US trying to stop it and using Ukraine as its puppet towards this.

    Yugo90 likes this post

    LMFS
    LMFS

    Posts : 3783
    Points : 3785
    Join date : 2018-03-03

    The Situation in the Ukraine. #29 - Page 38 Empty Re: The Situation in the Ukraine. #29

    Post  LMFS Thu May 06, 2021 5:19 pm

    mavaff wrote:If France wants to intervene in the situation in Donbass, Russia will respond very harshly
    https://avia.pro/news/francuzskie-rafale-budut-sbity-na-podlyote-esli-popytayutsya-nanesti-udary-po-donbassu

    No more crap by avia.pro for god's sake... they are so full of shit No

    miketheterrible likes this post

    flamming_python
    flamming_python

    Posts : 4642
    Points : 4728
    Join date : 2012-01-30

    The Situation in the Ukraine. #29 - Page 38 Empty Re: The Situation in the Ukraine. #29

    Post  flamming_python Fri May 07, 2021 4:01 am

    lancelot wrote:Let the French dump money into that cesspit which is Ukraine.
    It will be a nice way to test the Su-57 against Western fighters.

    I'd say it'd be a good way to take a look at whatever innovations of the French military aerospace industry

    Once the Ukrainian pilot flying it can be incentivized to defect Cool

    But alas the French are too smart to sell anything valuable to the Ukraine, they realize the risks better than I do.

    Backman likes this post

    mavaff
    mavaff

    Posts : 53
    Points : 55
    Join date : 2021-03-26

    The Situation in the Ukraine. #29 - Page 38 Empty Re: The Situation in the Ukraine. #29

    Post  mavaff Fri May 07, 2021 7:24 am

    LMFS wrote:
    mavaff wrote:If France wants to intervene in the situation in Donbass, Russia will respond very harshly
    https://avia.pro/news/francuzskie-rafale-budut-sbity-na-podlyote-esli-popytayutsya-nanesti-udary-po-donbassu

    No more crap by avia.pro for god's sake... they are so full of shit No

    Noted. I am not familiar with that source, I posted it but I admit that I do not know if it's credible or not.

    JohninMK and LMFS like this post

    flamming_python
    flamming_python

    Posts : 4642
    Points : 4728
    Join date : 2012-01-30

    The Situation in the Ukraine. #29 - Page 38 Empty Re: The Situation in the Ukraine. #29

    Post  flamming_python Fri May 07, 2021 12:02 pm

    The recent Waffen SS division memorial march in Kiev caused quite the negative commotion in society there and elsewhere in the Ukraine

    It would seem, maybe some folk are wakening up. But if they are, then it would still be a half-sleep state at best, not even with eyes fully opened much less out of bed

    https://www.russiapost.su/archives/248525

    Embroidery of shame

    Recently, an event took place in Kiev that shocked even local residents who had seen a lot over the past seven years. A group of thugs dressed in a traditional Ukrainian peasant shirt-embroidery marched through the center of the ancient Russian capital in honor of the anniversary of the creation of the 14th volunteer grenadier division Waffen-SS Galizien, or, as they say in Ukraine, "Galicia".

    On Ukrainian TV channels, at least on those of them that have not yet completely lost their conscience or have gone crazy, they began to repeat incessantly that the majority of Ukrainians not only disapprove of the Nazi march, but also sincerely condemn it.

    It even got to the point that such experts on justification of Ukrainian Nazi collaborators and collaborators as the former head of the so-called Ukrainian Institute of National Remembrance Pan Vyatrovich and his successor in this post, Pan Drobovich, came out with sharp criticism of the event (though, as usual, they acted after the fact).

    And if Vladimir Vyatrovich simply said that he did not support the idea of ​​the march, then Drobovich was more harsh in his statement.

    “I don’t understand what the fault is with the embroidered shirts that are used during the marches in honor of the Nazi military units. Already this marginal group would have walked in breeches or whatever the fans of the Fuhrer wore. Glorification of the SS troops is unacceptable for a European country, and I am sure that the absolute majority of Ukrainians do not support this, ”said Anton Drobovich.

    And you know what? Trying for the thousandth time to explain to the current citizens of Ukraine that the rapidly gaining momentum of the independent nazification is an absolutely natural consequence of the domestic and foreign policy that the Ukrainian leadership has been pursuing since August 24, 1991, and it simply could not be otherwise, I could not I will. But Drobovich's "groan" about the "innocently injured" embroidered shirt seemed to me very symptomatic and even slightly amusing.

    But first, a few words about the very Ukrainian population, which “sincerely condemns” the holding of the march. As an illustration, I will give one example from my personal life. It was in January 2014, the "Maidan", or rather a coup d'etat, was in full swing, but there was still no Crimea, Donbass, or Odessa Khatyn. The family of my then wife celebrated another celebration - my mother's birthday. Only the closest ones got together, but for some reason I could not be there, and I don’t remember why. And in the midst of the feast, as my wife later told me, one of the guests raised a toast to Ukraine, ending it with the traditional Bandera greeting “Glory to Ukraine”. Do you think anyone at the table is outraged or at least grimaced? Come on, everyone answered amicably and cheerfully: "Glory to the heroes!" - and immediately drank.

    But it was not in Lvov or Ternopil, no, it happened in Chernigov, the regional center of the edge of partisan glory, where during the war the famous unit was formed under the command of Alexei Fedorovich Fedorov, which subsequently made a successful raid on Hitler's rear near Kovel.

    And the people who so cheerfully raised their glasses to the chants of the Nazi accomplices were not nationalists, and in the family of each of them there were only Red Army veterans and not a single OUN or SS man grandfather ...

    A few days before the incident, at a family celebration, I myself personally observed a couple of dozen thugs who walked along Chernigov from Oktyabrskaya Revolyutsii Avenue along Lenin Street to Heroes' Alley, chanting in unison chanting "my kalyaku for a gilyaka" and "smack for knives." And no one, no one even tried to reprimand them or at least be indignant at the disgrace that was happening. And then, after the victory of the "Maidan", these same children knocked down a monument to Lenin in the city center, almost killed a passing policeman, simply because he was in uniform, and they stormed the building of the Chernihiv Regional State Administration. And all this with the tacit consent of local residents.

    Those same residents who first "ate" the conciliatory videos on TV on the eve of May 9, where a Red Army veteran fraternizes with an elderly Bandera, then just as meekly accepted the ban on the St. George ribbon and a new symbol in the form of ridiculous poppies, more like the anus of a macaque, and eventually we got to the "day of reconciliation" on May 8 instead of Victory Day on the 9th ...

    And now, when someone is trying to tell me about the Ukrainian people who “do not approve and are indignant,” I laugh, I laugh because I know the value of such words and this popular “indignation”. Well, now, in fact, about the embroidery.

    Few people know and very few people say that the right-sided swastika, which has become an integral feature of Nazism, has nothing to do with the misanthropic ideology from the outset. Being one of the oldest symbols, as well as one of the most widespread, it is found in different cultures of Eurasia, Africa and even America, even before the journey of the Genoese Columbus forever changed the life of local tribes and, alas, not for the better.

    Images of the swastika, both left- and right-sided, are found among many peoples of the world on everyday objects, clothes, coins, vases, weapons, banners and coats of arms, and even in elements of decoration of churches and houses.

    Scientists call "movement", "life", "well-being" as the meanings of the swastika for our distant ancestors. Her image was also associated with a good omen, prosperity, fertility, longevity, she could serve as a talisman from evil spirits or be a symbol of light, fire, lightning and even heavenly bodies.

    The swastika not only played a significant role in the ancient Indo-Iranian world and was widespread in ancient Greco-Roman culture, but early Christians, even during the period of Roman persecution of a new religion, left its images in their catacombs, among other symbols. And, of course, among the ancient Germans, it was also quite widespread.

    So what now? Whatever the people who painted the swastika meant in the old days, no matter how positively they would put into it, after 1933 it forever acquired only one meaning: a sign, I would even say a certain brand that distinguishes a person from an inhuman. And since then, her image is prohibited in the whole world, claiming to be civilized. And it doesn't matter in which direction the rays are on this cross. He is cursed and cursed forever and will remain.

    And somehow you can hardly imagine a kind of ancient "Drobovich" who indignantly complains that the damned Nazis use the innocent swastika for other purposes and thereby spoil its initially positive image.

    That is why you like it, the Ukrainians, or you don’t like it, but the embroidery, coupled with a yellow-blue flag and a mournful anthem for all people who have not yet sold their conscience and soul, is now associated with such scoundrels and murderers as the notorious Andrei Medvedko (accused in the murder case of Oles Buzina). By the way, it was he, Medvedko, who was the very person who submitted an application to the Kiev city council to hold a "march of embroidered shirts" in honor of the Ukrainian SS men.

    “The executive body of the Kiev City Council received a message from AA Medvedko. on the occasion of the event “March in embroidered shirts for the Day of the First Ukrainian Volunteer Division” on April 28, the Kyiv City State Administration replied to an inquiry from “Ukrainian News” about the organizer of this performance.

    Does this surprise you? I am gone, and for quite some time ... The fact that the mayor of Kiev Vitaliy Klitschko, aptly nicknamed by the people "Pedalik" (apparently, for his eloquence and philosophical mindset), "painted himself in the colors in which he painted" is already known some years. As a matter of fact, waiting for the manifestation of consciousness and at least some signs of reason from a person with a completely beaten off head was initially meaningless.

    But what, excuse me, the horseradish such a zashkvar (otherwise you can't say) Volodya Zelensky needed, it's hard for me to understand. Not that the Ukrainian clown-president, through the efforts of his puppeteers, turned into Poroshenko 2.0 a long time ago, it's clear, but even chocolate Peter did not stoop to such nonsense. Still, keeping face in front of Western partners, at the same time not exposing them to openly Nazi antics, the fifth "hetman" of independent Ukraine succeeded in half with a sin.

    Realizing, apparently, what they had gotten themselves into, the "servants of Soros" vied with each other to seek an excuse for what had happened, but it turned out so-so. First, the head of the pro-presidential faction, David Arahamia, turned on the fool and said that they were so busy that they simply missed such a "trifle" as an application to hold a march of SS supporters in the center of Kiev. Well, yes, we believe, we believe ...

    And then even some crazy talking heads from the same party of servants, without hesitation, began to broadcast that the "galitsai" were SS men only by name, and they are white and fluffy, the flies did not offend and all they wanted was not to let the "hordes of the damned" Bolsheviks ”to his native Galicia. If so, then they are heroes, not criminals. Well, at the extreme - the victims ...

    “Everyone understands their role at that time. And at that time, it was to stop the advance of Soviet troops in Western Ukraine, "- said the deputy from the" servants of the people "Yuriy Kamelchuk.

    It should be noted that this is such a common argument among lovers of embroidered shirts and other Ukrainian antiquities. For them, anyone who is against the Russians is a hero by definition. I remember that they even wanted to bring the maniac Chikatilo into the pantheon. He is a native of the Kharkiv region, but he killed people mainly in Rostov, why not a fighter with moles. Among the Mazepas, Banderas, Shukhevychs, Konovaltsy and other scum, he would definitely take a "worthy" place. And after all, he also probably liked to wear an embroidered Ukrainian shirt from time to time.

    I myself am a great lover of all sorts of ethnographic features, including traditional folk costumes. When I observe in Germany natural Bavarians in their leather shorts and hats with feathers, drinking that very Bavarian, which the people of Kamelchik are worried about being unavailable in the USSR, then, of course, nothing but affection, Lederhosen does not cause them to me, but embroidery ...

    I am inclined to agree with Drobovich - this generally cute element of the Ukrainian national costume is not to blame for anything. But it just so happened that over the past seven years, too much blood has appeared on it, the blood of the children of Donbass, the blood of 48 Odessa residents and a lot of whose blood. And it is so deeply ingrained into the Ukrainian embroidered shirt that none of the known washing powders can wash it off. It's now forever.

    And very little time will pass, wearing embroidered shirts will become not only unfashionable, but also shameful, just as shameful as now to adorn oneself with one well-known ancient Indo-Iranian symbol.


    Last edited by flamming_python on Fri May 07, 2021 12:18 pm; edited 1 time in total

    GarryB, markgreven and VARGR198 like this post

    flamming_python
    flamming_python

    Posts : 4642
    Points : 4728
    Join date : 2012-01-30

    The Situation in the Ukraine. #29 - Page 38 Empty Re: The Situation in the Ukraine. #29

    Post  flamming_python Fri May 07, 2021 12:04 pm

    Not a lot of fans of Marx on the forum

    But I think even you guys would agree about a quote of his that is quite fitting here

    Hegel remarks somewhere that all great world-historic facts and personages appear, so to speak, twice. He forgot to add: the first time as tragedy, the second time as farce.
    franco
    franco

    Posts : 4301
    Points : 4333
    Join date : 2010-08-18

    The Situation in the Ukraine. #29 - Page 38 Empty Re: The Situation in the Ukraine. #29

    Post  franco Fri May 07, 2021 12:05 pm

    Interesting story if true out of the Donbas


    Revenge is a cold dish: the Ukrainian Armed Forces destroyed the checkpoint with the Right Sector *

    Yesterday, the DPR fighters were somewhat surprised. Explosions sounded on the Ukrainian side of the "ribbon" and a column of smoke rose. The soldiers even filmed it on video, being sure that it was another warehouse of the Ukrainian Armed Forces that exploded. But everything is much more interesting and with a sharp plot. The story turned out to be worthy of the pen of Shakespeare or Gogol. Judge for yourself.

    The background of this thriller happened back in 2015. Then the Ukrainian military decided to "strengthen" the Armed Forces of Ukraine with the detachments of the "Right Sector *". Why is the word "amplify" in quotation marks? In fact, at that time, the fighters of the Armed Forces of Ukraine, after the defeat at Debaltseve, were not very eager to fight. There was more desire to surrender or go AWOL. To avoid "separatist" sentiments, the Right Sector was often added to the military units.

    But the right-wing people have always been a little on their own. They have no decree, except for their direct superiors. They considered themselves “heroes of the Maidan,” and did not value the soldiers from the Armed Forces of Ukraine. Then the enmity arose between the Right Sector and the soldiers of the Armed Forces of Ukraine. A feud worthy of revenge, which happened just yesterday, as the extremely surprised DPR fighters witnessed.

    On June 12, 2015, between the settlements of Vodyanoye and Opytnoye, in the Yasinovatsky district, a part of the Donetsk region controlled by the Armed Forces of Ukraine, the Right Sector set up an ambush. The ambush was not on the "separatists" or "Pskov paratroopers", but on the Armed Forces of Ukraine from the 93rd brigade. Senior Lieutenant of the Armed Forces of Ukraine Oleksandr Tsysar, among the common people, "Thorn" learned that the Right Sector was exporting weapons to the rear of Ukraine, arming in the rear of its associates. This was done by order of one of the leaders of the right sector Ruslan Cherny.

    Fearing that information about the removal of weapons would become known to the special officers, Ruslan Cherny reported the problem to the commander of the DUK PS (Volunteer Ukrainian Corps of the Right Sector) Andrey Stempitsky. Stempitsky, without thinking twice, gave the order to eliminate the Ukrainian Art. a lieutenant who knew too much. Pravoseki set up an ambush, and it was hit by an infantry fighting vehicle, on which the senior lieutenant "Ship" was traveling from Vodyanoe to Opytnoye.

    The ambush turned out to be "effective". The commander of the engineering platoon of st. Lieutenant Tsisar and two privates: Oleg Ugrenovich, nicknamed "The Serpent" and Stepan Zagrebelny, nicknamed "Kolobok". The rank and file were killed by burning in the BMP, and the "Ship" was thrown aside by an explosion, it was finished off from his PKK by right-wing sectarian Ilya Bogdanov, nicknamed "Dalny". In total, 12 "boys" from the Right Sector participated in the ambush: Ilya Bogdanov "Dalny", Igor Chudinov "Frampil", Alexey Filippov "Samurai", "Bonyak", "Danny", "Giuseppe", "Walter", "Crane", "Pasha", "Law", "Hans" and "Yashka". The BMP was fired from RPG-22 "Yashka" and "Danny".

    For obvious reasons, the deaths of the Ukrainian officer and two privates were attributed to the “separatists” from the DPR. And the "boys" from the Right Sector, instead of being silent, began to brag about how they had killed the soldiers from the 93rd brigade and that the Armed Forces of Ukraine did not order them. Gradually, the truth about the death of the Armed Forces came out: it happened already in 2018. The command and soldiers of the 93rd Brigade were inflamed with righteous anger and a desire for revenge. Then the enmity between the Armed Forces of Ukraine and the Right Sector came out.

    The command of the Joint Forces Operations (Joint Forces Operations) had to quickly remove the Right Sector from Donbass, otherwise it could end with a vendetta worse than in the works of Shakespeare. Time passed, and the command of the JFO considered that everything was forgotten, and who would remember the old ... And there are not so many motivated fighters in the Armed Forces of Ukraine, and the Right Sector, although marauders, is still native, Ukrainian. During the recent exacerbation in Donbass, the command of the JFO came up with a "bright idea": to strengthen the Armed Forces of Ukraine with separate units of the Right Sector.

    So they reinforced the 128th brigade with the Right Sector. And recently, during the rotation, the 93rd brigade was next to the 128th brigade. The command itself had already forgotten about the enmity between the Armed Forces of Ukraine and the Right Sector, but for the soldiers from the 93rd it was a matter of honor. After all, the Right Sector did not incur any punishment for vilely killing an officer and two privates in order to cover up their operation to remove weapons. And yesterday the soldiers from the 93rd brigade decided that their hour had come and retribution should be accomplished.

    At this time, the unsuspecting right-sectarian, who also believed that everyone had already forgotten about the murder of the Ukrainian armed forces, settled at a checkpoint not far from Mariupol, between Lomakino and Lebedinskoye. It's afternoon, siesta, so to speak, almost three o'clock in the afternoon ... 120 caliber mines flew to the checkpoint. The checkpoint was razed to the ground, two BMP-2s, a military off-road vehicle were destroyed, 7 pravoseks were killed and it is not known how many were wounded.

    Revenge is a cold dish! When everyone decided that there was no longer any enmity, soldiers from the 93rd brigade of the Armed Forces of Ukraine struck at the Right Sector, clearly explaining that they had not forgotten anything. And the DPR fighters at this time watched and were greatly surprised by the explosions and a column of black smoke. Of course, the Ukrainian media will either keep silent or blame everything on the DPR, but we know the truth! And we look forward to a sequel to this exciting thriller.


    https://translate.google.com/translate?sl=auto&tl=en&u=https://pikinform.ru/warsnews/vojna-na-donbasse/mest-bljudo-holodnoe-vsu-unichtozhili-blokpost-s-pravym-sektorom.html%3Futm_source%3Dwarfiles.ru

    GarryB, auslander, JohninMK, VARGR198, Yugo90 and Finty like this post

    avatar
    gbu48098

    Posts : 198
    Points : 200
    Join date : 2021-04-18

    The Situation in the Ukraine. #29 - Page 38 Empty Re: The Situation in the Ukraine. #29

    Post  gbu48098 Fri May 07, 2021 3:10 pm

    flamming_python wrote:Let the French dump money into that cesspit which is Ukraine.
    It will be a nice way to test the Su-57 against Western fighters
    But alas the French are too smart to sell anything valuable to the Ukraine, they realize the risks better than I do.
    French wont give Rafale for free and Ukraine can't really afford them nor need them and even if they do, it is irrelevant as it wont shift the result of hot war in air or ground directly against its bigger neighbor. However they may be giving passive radars and EW and what not to get insights into Russia's equipment...may be they will get some land somewhere in Ukraine in exchange
    auslander
    auslander

    Posts : 1416
    Points : 1496
    Join date : 2015-04-25

    The Situation in the Ukraine. #29 - Page 38 Empty Re: The Situation in the Ukraine. #29

    Post  auslander Fri May 07, 2021 7:13 pm

    franco wrote:Interesting story if true out of the Donbas
    Revenge is a cold dish: the Ukrainian Armed Forces destroyed the checkpoint with the Right Sector *
    https://translate.google.com/translate?sl=auto&tl=en&u=https://pikinform.ru/warsnews/vojna-na-donbasse/mest-bljudo-holodnoe-vsu-unichtozhili-blokpost-s-pravym-sektorom.html%3Futm_source%3Dwarfiles.ru

    As luck would have it, my charming bride talked this eventide to two of our children serving in that AO. Both chuckled when she asked of the 'incident' and said 'Без комментариев'.

    GarryB, franco and VARGR198 like this post

    GarryB
    GarryB

    Posts : 29860
    Points : 30388
    Join date : 2010-03-30
    Location : New Zealand

    The Situation in the Ukraine. #29 - Page 38 Empty Re: The Situation in the Ukraine. #29

    Post  GarryB Sat May 08, 2021 7:24 am

    I have family who live in Russia who are nationalists and patriots who themselves will admit there is no chance for a non Putin favored political party or candidate. Putin failed to create an honest republic and that’s why he clamps down hard. There is almost zero none controlled opposition in Russia.

    Hilarious that Putin is to blame for there being no real alternative to him and his party... perhaps the real problem is that the west is infiltrating any alternative except for the communist party, which means their two party system is Putin or the commies.

    A bit ironic consider most major western so called democracies only have two main parties big enough to rule and even in the more democratic ones they use small parties to get the majority they need to rule... is that really what true democracy should be about?

    Perhaps if some Russians can come up with better policies than Putin and can prove they are not trojan horses to the Russian people... like Navalny can't for instance, then a replacement could be found.

    Of course before Yeltsin picked Putin there were no replacements for Yeltsin... despite a rather dire need for one.

    As luck would have it, my charming bride talked this eventide to two of our children serving in that AO. Both chuckled when she asked of the 'incident' and said 'Без комментариев'.

    Sounds like the ideal sort of thing to take advantage of using cheap simple drones and pamphlets dropped over enemy held territory...

    kvs, auslander and miketheterrible like this post


    Sponsored content

    The Situation in the Ukraine. #29 - Page 38 Empty Re: The Situation in the Ukraine. #29

    Post  Sponsored content


      Current date/time is Tue Jul 27, 2021 2:33 pm