Russia Defence Forum

Would you like to react to this message? Create an account in a few clicks or log in to continue.

Military Forum for Russian and Global Defence Issues


+58
Broski
ALAMO
Big_Gazza
Atmosphere
TMA1
Mindstorm
thegopnik
KoTeMoRe
kvs
Mig-31BM2 Super Irbis-E
lancelot
lyle6
PapaDragon
The-thing-next-door
Ives
ult
Slevin
LMFS
hoom
Hole
dino00
Rmf
miketheterrible
airstrike
Benya
franco
Isos
Werewolf
magnumcromagnon
jhelb
Book.
Vann7
Regular
Behrooz
Stealthflanker
Asf
Vympel
flamming_python
xeno
mack8
Morpheus Eberhardt
Sujoy
sepheronx
Zivo
AlfaT8
collegeboy16
George1
Viktor
TR1
TheArmenian
Cyberspec
Austin
nightcrawler
IronsightSniper
medo
brudawson
GarryB
Admin
62 posters

    TOR Air Defence system

    Atmosphere
    Atmosphere


    Posts : 223
    Points : 225
    Join date : 2021-01-31

    TOR Air Defence system - Page 19 Empty Re: TOR Air Defence system

    Post  Atmosphere Tue Feb 01, 2022 12:05 am

    magnumcromagnon wrote:
    Arctic "Thor": moves, shoots and swims in any climate

    At the end of 2021, the Ground Forces of the Armed Forces of the Russian Federation received two divisional sets of the Tor-M2 and Tor-M2DT anti-aircraft missile systems manufactured by the Izhevsk Electromechanical Plant Kupol.

    TOR Air Defence system - Page 19 Arctictorus011

    Of particular interest here are anti-aircraft missile systems produced in a special Arctic version: the combat module of these systems is installed on the Vityaz two-link tracked all-terrain vehicles.

    The Arctic complex "Tor-M2DT" is a representative of the "Tor" family, designed to serve in the polar region, providing control of the airspace of the Arctic and air defense of military and industrial facilities.

    We learned about the practical use of the Arctic Tors in the winter of 2019, when the Russian Ministry of Defense announced the start of the use of the Northern fleet Arctic anti-aircraft missile system "Tor-M2DT". At that time, the personnel of the air defense division equipped with new complexes completed a training course at the training center and performed the first live firing at the training ground in the Astrakhan region.

    TOR Air Defence system - Page 19 20210822163347_022a4716

    The main task of the Tor-M2DT complex is to provide air defense for military formations and state and military facilities in difficult climatic conditions, at low Arctic temperatures. At the same time, the fire and reconnaissance capabilities of the Arctic complex correspond to the base "Tor-M2".

    The complex detects air attack weapons at ranges up to 32 km, and can fire missiles at four of them at once. The complex is capable of intercepting small-sized air targets flying at speeds of up to 700 m/s, in any weather conditions and at any time of the day, in conditions of intense fire and radio-optical-electronic countermeasures.

    It should be noted that Tor-M2DT differs from the main version of the complex by its carrier base - the combat module is placed on the chassis of the two-link tracked floating all-terrain vehicle DT-30PM-T Vityaz, capable of moving in completely off-road conditions - from the southern deserts to the snows of the Arctic.

    TOR Air Defence system - Page 19 7233026_315_311_3072_2044_1920x0_80_0_0_d8ac60257f01e70c7acd1ee809808221

    In the Arctic complexes, cold-resistant fuels and lubricants are used, which retain their qualities at a 50-degree frost. Engineers have adapted all elements of Tor-M2DT for service in the Arctic. The developers have created conditions for effective combat work of the crew at an air temperature of minus 50-60 ° C.

    The driving characteristics of the Arctic complex "Tor-M2DT" are impressive: the speed on paved roads is up to 43 km/h, on dirt roads - up to 30 km/h, on rough terrain - up to 15 km/h, afloat - up to 4 km/h.

    We also note that the Vityaz all-terrain vehicle is the only vehicle in the world that can not only overcome the impenetrable spaces of the Arctic, but also swim in the icy waters of the ocean.

    https://en.topwar.ru/191785-arkticheskij-tor-dvigaetsja-streljaet-i-plavaet-v-ljuboj-klimaticheskoj-obstanovke.html

    They used the starcraft font i see.

    flamming_python and lyle6 like this post

    avatar
    Mig-31BM2 Super Irbis-E


    Posts : 257
    Points : 265
    Join date : 2016-01-20

    TOR Air Defence system - Page 19 Empty Re: TOR Air Defence system

    Post  Mig-31BM2 Super Irbis-E Wed May 25, 2022 5:17 pm

    Has the production rate increased?
    What about a trailer for smaller and more rockets against smaller drones?
    GarryB
    GarryB


    Posts : 33550
    Points : 34064
    Join date : 2010-03-30
    Location : New Zealand

    TOR Air Defence system - Page 19 Empty Re: TOR Air Defence system

    Post  GarryB Thu May 26, 2022 3:59 am

    AFAIK there were plans for an anti drone very short range missile for use against small elusive targets... you don't need a 20kg warhead that can hit targets 15km away when the target is a tiny drone you might not be able to detect at more than 5-6km.

    The Pantsir system has a small missile carried four to a tube of the original missiles for use against smaller lighter targets, so perhaps with TOR they will do the same.

    There has been talk about mini missiles of about 10kgs weight with precision guidance that can hit targets directly like artillery shells of unguided rockets... which require direct hits with a decent HE charge to destroy, for which the US equivalent 3kg missiles are probably not adequate for in the opinions of the Russians.

    The final missiles will be small and compact and carried in enormous numbers... hundreds of missiles carried per vehicle that could be used against artillery rounds and also missiles like Javelin etc etc... not a replacement for APS but a compliment...

    Old systems like DROZD and ARENA could hit direct line of sight weapons including RPGs, while these missiles could engage the top attack Javelins and Spikes and Copperheads...

    These new missiles could even deal with artillery shells... though obviously Pantsir and TOR would be better because they could intercept the artillery rockets before they release submunitions etc.

    Together with lasers and directed jammers or even just blinders these would be useful on a modern battlefield.

    (note a blinder simply overwhelms the camera on a drone so it can't see... which means it becomes useless as a recon tool or attack weapon... it does not hav eto be powerful enough to do damage to the camera which means it can effect drones to a much greater distance than if it was trying to damage them.)

    TOR missiles are command guided and are very very cheap and simple... all the complex stuff is in the vehicle and is reused.
    Hole
    Hole


    Posts : 6714
    Points : 6702
    Join date : 2018-03-24
    Age : 46
    Location : Scholzistan

    TOR Air Defence system - Page 19 Empty Re: TOR Air Defence system

    Post  Hole Thu May 26, 2022 4:41 pm

    TOR Air Defence system - Page 19 023410
    Propable layout: 8 standard + 32 smaller missiles

    You could add a trailer or change the platform to the DT-30.

    1. Add an extra vehicle based on the DT-30 without turret and radars, only missiles (like the one for the Buk system). Only silos for missiles.
    You could easily deploy 24 standard missiles in the forward and 36 missiles in the back part. A battery of 4 standard and 2 DT-30´s would nearly triple
    the missile load.

    2. Use the DT-30 and add 4 fixed AESA radars in the corners of the vehicle for air search/fire control. No need for a turret to turn the fire control radar
    and therefore more space for missiles.

    GarryB, psg, dino00, Mig-31BM2 Super Irbis-E, lyle6 and Broski like this post

    lyle6
    lyle6


    Posts : 1223
    Points : 1223
    Join date : 2020-09-14
    Location : Philippines

    TOR Air Defence system - Page 19 Empty Re: TOR Air Defence system

    Post  lyle6 Thu May 26, 2022 5:30 pm

    Petition to rename Bayraktar to Rekt-By-Tor. Twisted Evil

    GarryB, psg, thegopnik, Hole and Broski like this post

    avatar
    Mig-31BM2 Super Irbis-E


    Posts : 257
    Points : 265
    Join date : 2016-01-20

    TOR Air Defence system - Page 19 Empty Re: TOR Air Defence system

    Post  Mig-31BM2 Super Irbis-E Thu May 26, 2022 10:22 pm

    Hole wrote:TOR Air Defence system - Page 19 023410
    Propable layout: 8 standard + 32 smaller missiles

    You could add a trailer or change the platform to the DT-30.

    1. Add an extra vehicle based on the DT-30 without turret and radars, only missiles (like the one for the Buk system). Only silos for missiles.
    You could easily deploy 24 standard missiles in the forward and 36 missiles in the back part. A battery of 4 standard and 2 DT-30´s would nearly triple
    the missile load.

    2. Use the DT-30 and add 4 fixed AESA radars in the corners of the vehicle for air search/fire control. No need for a turret to turn the fire control radar
    and therefore more space for missiles.
    Yes Yes Yes! 8x Long Range and 32x smaller missiles!
    Build and introduce immediately

    GarryB, thegopnik and Broski like this post

    GarryB
    GarryB


    Posts : 33550
    Points : 34064
    Join date : 2010-03-30
    Location : New Zealand

    TOR Air Defence system - Page 19 Empty Re: TOR Air Defence system

    Post  GarryB Fri May 27, 2022 5:47 am

    The main problem is that the current missiles fit in the turret which is much smaller than it needs to be... if you are having a two chassis vehicle then having a fixed upper structure with four phased array radar arrays for search and tracking so you don't need an actual turning turret means the entire chassis could contain missiles and the current missiles are small while the newer smaller missiles are even smaller.

    The volume on the current vehicle that contains missiles is tiny yet 16 ready to launch missiles is actually rather good.

    These new missiles add capabilities and features in that they are likely not only smaller calibre, but also likely shorter, so you could add a bin at the rear or sides of the hull that contain lots more missiles.

    The problem with the current DT layout is that both sections are relatively compact and the front section is crew compartment and main engine while the rear is mostly TOR turret.

    I would probably go the other way and take a wheeled TOR vehicle and tow a container trailer like a truck trailer that could literally have hundreds of missiles on it.

    Anyone who has towed a trailer... especially a big heavy one will know what a pain in the backside they are and how they seriously effect driving and manouver performance, so I would say on the move tow the trailer but for any stop or even fixed location like an airfield it could park up the trailer which would have its own small gas turbine power generator and direct datalink to the main vehicle which can launch missiles from the trailer if it happens to be closer to the target than the TOR vehicle at the time. You could design it so a single vehicle can command multiple trailers at a time so if you were defending an airfield you could dig a dozen trailers in various places along the runway and hangar area and one or two or four TOR vehicles can search for targets and direct the missiles from the trailers first to deal with any attack. Some could be camouflaged and only exposed to allow missile launches when the attack has started...
    GarryB
    GarryB


    Posts : 33550
    Points : 34064
    Join date : 2010-03-30
    Location : New Zealand

    TOR Air Defence system - Page 19 Empty Re: TOR Air Defence system

    Post  GarryB Fri May 27, 2022 5:55 am

    1. Add an extra vehicle based on the DT-30 without turret and radars, only missiles (like the one for the Buk system). Only silos for missiles.
    You could easily deploy 24 standard missiles in the forward and 36 missiles in the back part. A battery of 4 standard and 2 DT-30´s would nearly triple
    the missile load.

    That would be 3 x 8 missile launch bins in the front vehicle which is fine because you also need the engine and crew and fuel in the front section, but the rear should be able to carry 6 to 8 launch bins without a turret area... so lets say 6... that would be 48 of the standard missiles... and so the new small missiles which fit 32 missiles to the 8 tube launcher space means four missiles per tube times 8... so with 48 standard missiles times 8, that would be 384 missiles... plus the 24 missiles in the front section which would be 408 missiles per vehicle....

    With the new very small missiles you could cold launch them with compressed air if they are only 10-20 kgs, which would be a cheap and efficient way of launching them... you could run a compressor off the vehicle engine.
    avatar
    Mig-31BM2 Super Irbis-E


    Posts : 257
    Points : 265
    Join date : 2016-01-20

    TOR Air Defence system - Page 19 Empty Re: TOR Air Defence system

    Post  Mig-31BM2 Super Irbis-E Fri May 27, 2022 5:13 pm

    I have long wanted a DT-30 with a trailer as a standard. 8x Longrange and 8x midrange rockets + trailer with 24x short distances, 8x Longrange and 8x midrange Rockets. Has the advantage that reloading does not endanger the whole system. Simply hanging and ready. The main vehicle has 2x8 as a self -protection.

    The trailer should of course have a support drive. In addition, the whole system could "go" on the transport of its second trailer.

    If more mobility is needed on the battlefield, the trailer coupling should be "magnetic". Of course with Datalink so that the standing trailer can continue to fire.
    GarryB
    GarryB


    Posts : 33550
    Points : 34064
    Join date : 2010-03-30
    Location : New Zealand

    TOR Air Defence system - Page 19 Empty Re: TOR Air Defence system

    Post  GarryB Sat May 28, 2022 5:22 am

    The issue with the DT series vehicles is that it is a fully articulated link that transfers drive shaft power to the tracks on the rear module and can be lifted and rotated.

    They do it like that so that if the whole vehicle is in the water, the floatation of the rear section can use the articulated connection to lift the front section out of the water and onto the ice and hold it level to the ground to spread its weight out so it doesn't just break the ice and fall straight back through.

    Once the front bit is on the ice it can use the articulated connector to lift up the rear section out of the ice and drive forward so the whole vehicle is on the ice.

    With a single hulled vehicle that is amphbious, when you try to get out of the water all the weight of the vehicle as it comes out of the water goes onto the edge of the ice which of course breaks unless it is super thick, so rather than climbing out of the ice you just become an ice breaker.

    In addition to this trick it also means you can get out of deep snow or deep mud because you can shift weight between the front and back module as needed for traction or shifting pressure on the surface you are operating on.


    I would say the fact that vertically stowed missiles could be ready to launch and are as efficient as any other method of carrying a lot of missiles that ready to launch trailers could be used for standard tracked and wheeled versions of TOR... fit them with small generators and direct optical datalink connections for launches and you could place the all over the area you want to defend. If you want them for mobile combat then put them on an armoured truck like a Typhoon with ready to launch missiles in the back operating on the command of the TOR vehicle operating with the group or convoy.

    Going to a dangerous area... take a few extra trucks... put a remote 12.7mm HMG or 30-40mm grenade launcher weapon station on the truck cab roof with optics to help deal with ambush situations... a couple of TOR vehicles looking for drones and aircraft or incoming munitions like Spike or Javelin, and a couple of Terminators looking for anti armour ambush groups... along with drones or attack helicopters as armed escorts too...

    Of course later on the new anti ambush SAMs will be even better and carried in even greater numbers... perhaps a module you can add to a standard supply vehicle so they all carry self defence missiles.
    caveat emptor
    caveat emptor


    Posts : 476
    Points : 478
    Join date : 2022-02-02
    Location : Murrica

    TOR Air Defence system - Page 19 Empty Re: TOR Air Defence system

    Post  caveat emptor Sun Jun 19, 2022 6:12 pm

    Kupol started building new TOR module.

    TOR Air Defence system - Page 19 Img_2023
    https://t.me/istorijaoruzijaZ/9579
    "Thor" will shoot down low-flying targets.

    In Izhevsk, at the Kupol electromechanical plant, which is part of the Almaz-Antey concern, a new Tor air defense system module is being created. Vyacheslav Kartashov, assistant to the general director, spoke about this on the air of the federal TV channel. The new anti-aircraft complex software will allow you to work on low-flying targets.

    "Today we started developing a new module, which will already implement new technical solutions tested in the Arctic. We will use double the ammunition, the software that we tested when firing at a low-flying target. The hull will be created new, lightweight. This is the only one today an air defense system that can be transported by a helicopter on an external sling. There are no other such air defense systems in the world," Kartashov said.

    George1, LMFS, TMA1 and Broski like this post

    TMA1
    TMA1


    Posts : 524
    Points : 528
    Join date : 2020-11-30

    TOR Air Defence system - Page 19 Empty Re: TOR Air Defence system

    Post  TMA1 Sun Jun 19, 2022 9:38 pm

    Dont think there is any shorads as good as the Tor. This new one is looking awesome.

    Sponsored content


    TOR Air Defence system - Page 19 Empty Re: TOR Air Defence system

    Post  Sponsored content


      Current date/time is Thu Jun 30, 2022 5:49 am