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So Iran has a established spares industry for civilian aircraft right? Smart move by both of them and a new nail in the coffin of the West's hegemony, creating sworn enemies left and right and enabling counterfeit industries to be run officially by a superpower like Russia...
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Russian Civil Aviation: News #4
LMFS- Posts : 5102
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Well, considering that they have operated a quite impressive array of both Boeing and Airbus, well into sanction period - they surely have some solutions.
Let it be smuggling or unlicensed production, who really cares?
Let it be smuggling or unlicensed production, who really cares?
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GarryB- Posts : 38981
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But the US wants you to believe they only talked about buying Iranian drones...
This is very good news and a good indication that cooperation will be more than just military and will not just be one way...
This is very good news and a good indication that cooperation will be more than just military and will not just be one way...
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Arrow- Posts : 2719
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How is it with these Iranian drones. Will Russia buy them or not? There is a lot of conflicting information on this topic.
GarryB- Posts : 38981
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Only the Americans are claiming they need them... Iran and Russia have said it is not the case.
I suspect Russia and Iran will start working together on drones and Russia will likely be interested in the drones Iran makes and Iran might look at a few drones Russia makes but nothing will likely be done in time to get anything into the Ukraine in any useful time periods.
Iran might have cheap simple disposable drones that are small and light and cheap and most important in mass serial production that Russia might consider buying but I would think they already have experience of such drones in Syria etc and they were likely the first drones they were mass producing due to high attrition rates.
Having said that Iran might have some drones worth looking at and I would say both sides might have solutions or components that interest the other side... working together will only make both sides stronger.
But this is mostly about keeping western planes operational till Russian planes and components are ready to replace them.
I suspect Russia and Iran will start working together on drones and Russia will likely be interested in the drones Iran makes and Iran might look at a few drones Russia makes but nothing will likely be done in time to get anything into the Ukraine in any useful time periods.
Iran might have cheap simple disposable drones that are small and light and cheap and most important in mass serial production that Russia might consider buying but I would think they already have experience of such drones in Syria etc and they were likely the first drones they were mass producing due to high attrition rates.
Having said that Iran might have some drones worth looking at and I would say both sides might have solutions or components that interest the other side... working together will only make both sides stronger.
But this is mostly about keeping western planes operational till Russian planes and components are ready to replace them.
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The decision on the serial production of the Il-96-400M will be made after testing the aircraft, 28.07.2022.
The decision on the feasibility of mass production of an upgraded version of the Il-96-400M long-haul aircraft will be made after certification tests of the machine,informsTASS, citing a source in the aviation industry.
According to him, the timing of the first flight of the aircraft remains unchanged - it is planned to raise the liner before the end of this year. In this case, the first copy of the Il-96-400M will be used as a flying laboratory.
“The first aircraft has been assembled and will be used as a flying laboratory to test technical solutions for wide-body long-haul aircraft,” the source said.
According to him, modernized systems will be tested on this machine, including a promising domestic complex of flight and navigation equipment. The aircraft is equipped with four PS-90A3M engines.
The Aviation of Russia website reported in 2018 about plans to build six serial Il-96-400M at VASO during 2021-2023 for leasing to Russian air carriers. For this, state support for the project was envisaged through the appropriate additional capitalization of the State Transport Leasing Company. As part of this program, on December 25, 2017, by a Decree of the Russian Government, STLC allocated the first 4 billion rubles for the purchase of the first two serial Il-96-400M machines, the total purchase price of which was determined at 14 billion rubles. These two aircraft were to be built and put into service in 2021. In total, the costs of the Il-96-400M development program and the supply of six serial machines were estimated at about 50 billion rubles.
https://aviation21.ru/42982-2/
The decision on the feasibility of mass production of an upgraded version of the Il-96-400M long-haul aircraft will be made after certification tests of the machine,informsTASS, citing a source in the aviation industry.
According to him, the timing of the first flight of the aircraft remains unchanged - it is planned to raise the liner before the end of this year. In this case, the first copy of the Il-96-400M will be used as a flying laboratory.
“The first aircraft has been assembled and will be used as a flying laboratory to test technical solutions for wide-body long-haul aircraft,” the source said.
According to him, modernized systems will be tested on this machine, including a promising domestic complex of flight and navigation equipment. The aircraft is equipped with four PS-90A3M engines.
The Aviation of Russia website reported in 2018 about plans to build six serial Il-96-400M at VASO during 2021-2023 for leasing to Russian air carriers. For this, state support for the project was envisaged through the appropriate additional capitalization of the State Transport Leasing Company. As part of this program, on December 25, 2017, by a Decree of the Russian Government, STLC allocated the first 4 billion rubles for the purchase of the first two serial Il-96-400M machines, the total purchase price of which was determined at 14 billion rubles. These two aircraft were to be built and put into service in 2021. In total, the costs of the Il-96-400M development program and the supply of six serial machines were estimated at about 50 billion rubles.
https://aviation21.ru/42982-2/
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wilhelm- Posts : 345
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Is the PS-90A3M engine mentioned above used on anything else thus far?
This model was supposed to be a Russified upgrade to compete with or replace the PS-90A2 model that had Western components, as far as I can tell.
This model was supposed to be a Russified upgrade to compete with or replace the PS-90A2 model that had Western components, as far as I can tell.
Rodion_Romanovic- Posts : 2414
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wilhelm wrote:Is the PS-90A3M engine mentioned above used on anything else thus far?
This model was supposed to be a Russified upgrade to compete with or replace the PS-90A2 model that had Western components, as far as I can tell.
No, it was decided to go with the unimproved PS-90A1. At least until the PD-35 will be available to go for a two engines version of the aircraft. As far as as the already built ones, they could be transferred back to military or government use or eventually be reengined with 4 PD-16 or PD-18
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Prototype SSJ-New delivered to TsAGI for endurance testing, 30.07.2022.
The heavy transport aircraft An-124 RA-82079 of Volga-Dnepr Airlines delivered on July 29 to Zhukovsky from Komsomolsk-on-Amur, the fuselage of an experimental SSJ-New aircraft with serial number 97002. The prototype will undergo a cycle of life tests at the Central Aerohydrodynamic Institute. This was reported in the press service of the United Aircraft Corporation.
At TsAGI, specialists from the Irkut corporation will dock the wing with the center section, install the vertical and horizontal tail surfaces, and mount the attachments. At the same time, TsAGI employees will be installing the test bench systems for subsequent certification life tests.
Earlier, the first fuselage of the SSJ-New aircraft was assembled at the production center of the Irkut corporation in Komsomolsk-on-Amur. Currently, it is in the final assembly shop and is being equipped with Russian-made systems and units. The aircraft will be equipped with an auxiliary power unit TA18-100S, landing gear, glazing, an integrated aircraft control system, hydraulic, fuel and oxygen systems, on-board cable network and power supply system, lighting equipment, air conditioning and neutral gas systems, as well as avionics and others. domestic systems that will replace previously used components from foreign suppliers.
“In 2023, it will make its first flight and take part in the certification flight test program,” said Andrey Boginsky, Deputy General Director of PJSC UAC for Civil Aviation, General Director of the Irkut Corporation. “Successful completion of life and flight tests will allow us to reach SSJ-NEW certification by the end of 2023 and begin mass production,” he added.
At TsAGI, the airframe and landing gear will be subjected to repeated cyclic loading to experimentally substantiate the assigned resource of 54,000 flight hours. During the tests, it is planned to obtain data on the fatigue strength and operational survivability of the airframe, as well as to confirm the compliance of the design with the requirements of aviation standards.
“Conducting this kind of test is a common practice in the aircraft industry when significant changes are made to the airframe design. In the case of SSJ-New, such changes are due to the generalization of the experience of operating SSJ family aircraft on domestic and international airlines, as well as the need to integrate new aircraft systems developed by Russian enterprises, ”the UAC explained.
https://aviation21.ru/opytnyj-ekzemplyar-ssj-new-dostavlen-v-cagi-dlya-provedeniya-resursnyx-ispytanij/
The heavy transport aircraft An-124 RA-82079 of Volga-Dnepr Airlines delivered on July 29 to Zhukovsky from Komsomolsk-on-Amur, the fuselage of an experimental SSJ-New aircraft with serial number 97002. The prototype will undergo a cycle of life tests at the Central Aerohydrodynamic Institute. This was reported in the press service of the United Aircraft Corporation.
At TsAGI, specialists from the Irkut corporation will dock the wing with the center section, install the vertical and horizontal tail surfaces, and mount the attachments. At the same time, TsAGI employees will be installing the test bench systems for subsequent certification life tests.
Earlier, the first fuselage of the SSJ-New aircraft was assembled at the production center of the Irkut corporation in Komsomolsk-on-Amur. Currently, it is in the final assembly shop and is being equipped with Russian-made systems and units. The aircraft will be equipped with an auxiliary power unit TA18-100S, landing gear, glazing, an integrated aircraft control system, hydraulic, fuel and oxygen systems, on-board cable network and power supply system, lighting equipment, air conditioning and neutral gas systems, as well as avionics and others. domestic systems that will replace previously used components from foreign suppliers.
“In 2023, it will make its first flight and take part in the certification flight test program,” said Andrey Boginsky, Deputy General Director of PJSC UAC for Civil Aviation, General Director of the Irkut Corporation. “Successful completion of life and flight tests will allow us to reach SSJ-NEW certification by the end of 2023 and begin mass production,” he added.
At TsAGI, the airframe and landing gear will be subjected to repeated cyclic loading to experimentally substantiate the assigned resource of 54,000 flight hours. During the tests, it is planned to obtain data on the fatigue strength and operational survivability of the airframe, as well as to confirm the compliance of the design with the requirements of aviation standards.
“Conducting this kind of test is a common practice in the aircraft industry when significant changes are made to the airframe design. In the case of SSJ-New, such changes are due to the generalization of the experience of operating SSJ family aircraft on domestic and international airlines, as well as the need to integrate new aircraft systems developed by Russian enterprises, ”the UAC explained.
https://aviation21.ru/opytnyj-ekzemplyar-ssj-new-dostavlen-v-cagi-dlya-provedeniya-resursnyx-ispytanij/
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wilhelm- Posts : 345
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The report above though specifically states:Rodion_Romanovic wrote:wilhelm wrote:Is the PS-90A3M engine mentioned above used on anything else thus far?
This model was supposed to be a Russified upgrade to compete with or replace the PS-90A2 model that had Western components, as far as I can tell.
No, it was decided to go with the unimproved PS-90A1. At least until the PD-35 will be available to go for a two engines version of the aircraft. As far as as the already built ones, they could be transferred back to military or government use or eventually be reengined with 4 PD-16 or PD-18
"The aircraft is equipped with four PS-90A3M engines."
So, is this not the case?
It's interesting to note the use of PS-90A3M, instead of the previous designation PS-90A3, so I'm just trying to figure out whether there has been work quietly restarted on the PS-90A3 in Modernised, or "M" format.
It would actually make sense, if one considers the amount of airframes and designs already certified and built with the PS-90, and the time it would take to ramp up PD-14/18 production.
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Rodion_Romanovic- Posts : 2414
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well that was the original idea 4 or 5 years ago, however already 3 years ago some russian official from the aeronautical industry announced that they would keep the old engines and not use the PS-90A3M, also because they were not certified yet and they did not see the need to develop this mod at this time (when perm motors should be concentrated ok the PD-14 and its variants).wilhelm wrote:The report above though specifically states:Rodion_Romanovic wrote:wilhelm wrote:Is the PS-90A3M engine mentioned above used on anything else thus far?
This model was supposed to be a Russified upgrade to compete with or replace the PS-90A2 model that had Western components, as far as I can tell.
No, it was decided to go with the unimproved PS-90A1. At least until the PD-35 will be available to go for a two engines version of the aircraft. As far as as the already built ones, they could be transferred back to military or government use or eventually be reengined with 4 PD-16 or PD-18
"The aircraft is equipped with four PS-90A3M engines."
So, is this not the case?
It's interesting to note the use of PS-90A3M, instead of the previous designation PS-90A3, so I'm just trying to figure out whether there has been work quietly restarted on the PS-90A3 in Modernised, or "M" format.
It would actually make sense, if one considers the amount of airframes and designs already certified and built with the PS-90, and the time it would take to ramp up PD-14/18 production.
It is true that their communication are sometimes contradictory... But...
Anyway, if available the PS-90A3M should offer some fuel efficiency (PS-90A2 was about 7% more efficient than the original PS90) and reliability improvements.
They are important but not fundamental given the low rate of production of the aircraft and the plan to have new generation engines in the next 5 years.
If Perm has spare resources I would prefer them to concentrate on the PD-16 and on the PD18R.
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100% domestic Ansat helicopter will return to the market in 2024, 08.06.2022.
The Design Bureau of the Kazan Helicopter Plant is working to present the Ansat helicopter in a fully domestic configuration as soon as possible, the machine is being reassembled without components from Ukraine, the USA and Europe. About itinformsRBC with reference to the Deputy Managing Director, Chief Designer of OKB KVZ Alexei Garipov.
“In fact, we are rebuilding the car again. But we were seriously preparing, we had certain groundwork, and there is every chance to meet the deadlines and return the car to the market in 2024, ”he said during a meeting of the coordinating council of machine-building enterprises of the Republic of Tatarstan, dedicated to import substitution in the aircraft industry.
According to him, a serious challenge for the Kazan Helicopters Design Bureau is the components in the control and autopilot systems. The factory concept works here: a helicopter - for current components. “But this does not cancel the work on finding partners and creating analogues of those products that we previously bought abroad,” explained Alexei Garipov.
Of the 14 positions of key components, ten of them have either completed the process of import substitution or are at the final stage. For example, German polystyrene and blades will be replaced by VIAM, Ukrainian hydraulic pumps by JSC OKB AKS, and products from the USA and France were also used to assemble the Ansat.
The coordinating council did not bypass the topic of the power plant - Ansat is equipped with Pratt & Whitney PW-207K engines, to replace them, UEC-Klimov is developing a VK-650V turboshaft engine. Its mass production should begin in 2024.
During the meeting of the coordinating council, the chief designer of the factory design bureau expressed the hope that everything would be on schedule. “We are waiting for an invitation from them to start certification tests of the engine of a typical configuration,” he said.
“In the process of import substitution, we adopted the concept that we try to make the most of Russian-made products already on the market, even if their characteristics are worse in a number of parameters. If revision of the board itself is required, then we finalize the board,” added Alexey Garipov.
Earlier, Vladimir Artyakov, First Deputy General Director of Rostec State Corporation , reported that this year the Ansat helicopter will be provided with full-scale models of the VK-650V for system layout, next year it will be to supply engines for flight tests, and in 2024 it is planned to obtain a type certificate for the engine VK-650V.
https://aviation21.ru/100-otechestvennyj-vertolyot-ansat-vernyotsya-na-rynok-v-2024-godu/
The Design Bureau of the Kazan Helicopter Plant is working to present the Ansat helicopter in a fully domestic configuration as soon as possible, the machine is being reassembled without components from Ukraine, the USA and Europe. About itinformsRBC with reference to the Deputy Managing Director, Chief Designer of OKB KVZ Alexei Garipov.
“In fact, we are rebuilding the car again. But we were seriously preparing, we had certain groundwork, and there is every chance to meet the deadlines and return the car to the market in 2024, ”he said during a meeting of the coordinating council of machine-building enterprises of the Republic of Tatarstan, dedicated to import substitution in the aircraft industry.
According to him, a serious challenge for the Kazan Helicopters Design Bureau is the components in the control and autopilot systems. The factory concept works here: a helicopter - for current components. “But this does not cancel the work on finding partners and creating analogues of those products that we previously bought abroad,” explained Alexei Garipov.
Of the 14 positions of key components, ten of them have either completed the process of import substitution or are at the final stage. For example, German polystyrene and blades will be replaced by VIAM, Ukrainian hydraulic pumps by JSC OKB AKS, and products from the USA and France were also used to assemble the Ansat.
The coordinating council did not bypass the topic of the power plant - Ansat is equipped with Pratt & Whitney PW-207K engines, to replace them, UEC-Klimov is developing a VK-650V turboshaft engine. Its mass production should begin in 2024.
During the meeting of the coordinating council, the chief designer of the factory design bureau expressed the hope that everything would be on schedule. “We are waiting for an invitation from them to start certification tests of the engine of a typical configuration,” he said.
“In the process of import substitution, we adopted the concept that we try to make the most of Russian-made products already on the market, even if their characteristics are worse in a number of parameters. If revision of the board itself is required, then we finalize the board,” added Alexey Garipov.
Earlier, Vladimir Artyakov, First Deputy General Director of Rostec State Corporation , reported that this year the Ansat helicopter will be provided with full-scale models of the VK-650V for system layout, next year it will be to supply engines for flight tests, and in 2024 it is planned to obtain a type certificate for the engine VK-650V.
https://aviation21.ru/100-otechestvennyj-vertolyot-ansat-vernyotsya-na-rynok-v-2024-godu/
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well that was the original idea 4 or 5 years ago, however already 3 years ago some russian official from the aeronautical industry announced that they would keep the old engines and not use the PS-90A3M, also because they were not certified yet and they did not see the need to develop this mod at this time (when perm motors should be concentrated ok the PD-14 and its variants).
It is true that their communication are sometimes contradictory... But...
To be fair the situation has changed quite dramatically so a different decision or solution that didn't make sense before might be the best solution to current problems created by the current situation.
Making all the parts for currently used engines is good as it gets those makers of parts income and stability and could lead to them offering parts for other things as well.
I would expect the companies and parts replacing western parts on these engines are also the companies working on the all Russian PD range of engines so this work and income will be good for them to boost production capacity in several stages... right now there are no PD engines in use so the need for their parts would be low, but producing parts for existing engines to replace foreign components means work and income which should allow them to prepare for increased production when more PD engine types enter service and use.
They are important but not fundamental given the low rate of production of the aircraft and the plan to have new generation engines in the next 5 years.
Their key feature is that they are sanction proof... even if the most recent round of sanctions from the EU included climbdowns regarding food and fertiliser and aircraft parts support...
Hopefully Russia does not make the mistake of going back to western parts and continues to rely on their own companies instead.
Earlier, Vladimir Artyakov, First Deputy General Director of Rostec State Corporation , reported that this year the Ansat helicopter will be provided with full-scale models of the VK-650V for system layout, next year it will be to supply engines for flight tests, and in 2024 it is planned to obtain a type certificate for the engine VK-650V.
2024 always seems so far away, but it is two years....
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On the VK-650 turboshaft engine I am curious to understand if it shares parts or development with the VK-800 or it is an independent development. At the end apperently there are no plans to use the turboshaft VK-800 as it is ( that according to some articles was ready since at least 10 years), but a VK-800S turboprop engine for the Baikal aircraft (and for the Ladoga (twin aircraft derivative from the let610) has been made from it.
As far as the engine for the Il96, it depends probably on how much work is needed for the final development andcertification of the PS90-A3M engine (and5 all the new componentst are available). Since it is only a mod of an existing engine probably there is less work to do than for certifying a new one. And especially it should be easier and requires no additional work on the nacelle and aircraft interfaces.
However, is this work needed for an engine that will be installed only in a few aircrafts?
Most probably a derated version of the upgraded engine could be installed also on the existing Tu-204/214 and on the il-76, but it will not offer the same improvements that going to PD-14M or PD-16 will give.
At the end continued development of existing engines is good, and it could be worth if some of the improvements could be read across to the derivative engines used for moving gas in the pipelines and for energy turbines.
But, will there be enough request for the il96 in its quad engine version to justify it? If it is only about 2/3 new aircrafts per year until 2028 it is not enough to justify it.
(And new high efficient energy gas turbines derived from PD14 and PD35 could be also developed).
As far as the Tu-214 I can imagine a Tu-214 neo version with PD-14M or PD-16 engines and MC21 avionics and internal systems being proposed after 2025.
Russia has already decent engines that work and it is in the process of starting serial production of the next generation engines (and probably before 2024 will be ready for serial production of at least the PD-14M and /or PD-16 engines).
The only advantage of the PS-90A3M engine is that it could be installed directly on already built aircrafts (il-96-300, il-96-400, il-(4)76 and tu-214/204 without needing nacelle, mounts or significant aircraft interfaces modifications.
The main issue here is that we do not know how much work is needed in order to finish development and start production of the PS-90A3M engine and if such work can delay work on the new generation engine programs (as they are done by the same company
As far as the engine for the Il96, it depends probably on how much work is needed for the final development andcertification of the PS90-A3M engine (and5 all the new componentst are available). Since it is only a mod of an existing engine probably there is less work to do than for certifying a new one. And especially it should be easier and requires no additional work on the nacelle and aircraft interfaces.
However, is this work needed for an engine that will be installed only in a few aircrafts?
Most probably a derated version of the upgraded engine could be installed also on the existing Tu-204/214 and on the il-76, but it will not offer the same improvements that going to PD-14M or PD-16 will give.
At the end continued development of existing engines is good, and it could be worth if some of the improvements could be read across to the derivative engines used for moving gas in the pipelines and for energy turbines.
But, will there be enough request for the il96 in its quad engine version to justify it? If it is only about 2/3 new aircrafts per year until 2028 it is not enough to justify it.
(And new high efficient energy gas turbines derived from PD14 and PD35 could be also developed).
As far as the Tu-214 I can imagine a Tu-214 neo version with PD-14M or PD-16 engines and MC21 avionics and internal systems being proposed after 2025.
Russia has already decent engines that work and it is in the process of starting serial production of the next generation engines (and probably before 2024 will be ready for serial production of at least the PD-14M and /or PD-16 engines).
The only advantage of the PS-90A3M engine is that it could be installed directly on already built aircrafts (il-96-300, il-96-400, il-(4)76 and tu-214/204 without needing nacelle, mounts or significant aircraft interfaces modifications.
The main issue here is that we do not know how much work is needed in order to finish development and start production of the PS-90A3M engine and if such work can delay work on the new generation engine programs (as they are done by the same company
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Rodion_Romanovic- Posts : 2414
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Interesting article about aircraft engine development..
https://aviation21.ru/a-inozemcev-rasskazal-o-sovremennyx-aviacionnyx-dvigatelyax-i-ix-perspektivax/
https://aviation21.ru/a-inozemcev-rasskazal-o-sovremennyx-aviacionnyx-dvigatelyax-i-ix-perspektivax/
A. Inozemtsev - on the prospects for engines for aircraft from Tu-214 to MS-21-400
18.08.2022, 13:39 1 313
Alexander Inozemtsev, Deputy General Director of JSC UEC for the management of NPK Perm Motors, Managing Director - General Designer of JSC UEC-Aviadvigatel, spoke on the sidelines of the Army-2022 International Military-Technical Forum about the prospects for the production and modernization of the PD-14 engine , the required number of PS-90A, on the development of the PD-35 engine and on the opportunities that open up for designers after its appearance.
“We have just signed a four billion ruble loan with Novikombank for the production of a very large batch of PD-14s for the next years,”informedAlexander Inozemtsev to the journalist of the TV channel Zvezda Alexei Samoletov during a conversation.
He explained that the required production volumes of the PD-14 are currently so large that this engine is not planned to be used anywhere except for the MS-21 liner. “God forbid to swallow what will now be on MS-21-310. [...] The government instructed us to reach 160 engines a year by the thirtieth year, this is with a reserve. There will be 72 aircraft [per year], plus a reserve,” said the deputy head of the UEC.
Regarding the line of promising engines and the modernization potential of the PD-14, Alexander Inozemtsev noted that so far this is the first member of the family. But there will be others with a thrust of 8 to 18 tons.
“Irkut Corporation is simultaneously making a smaller aircraft for an engine with a capacity of 12.5 tons instead of fourteen, and is now actively engaged in the “four hundred” - MS-21-400 . This is 16.5 tons and an aircraft with a larger capacity,” said A. Inozemtsev.
Regarding the PD-8 engine, he said that the UEC-Saturn enterprise is developing it, and the UEC-Perm Motors is an "accomplice" in this project, explaining that the required number of these engines is about 100 units per year. "The Superjet needs to fly."
Answering a question about the succession of the PD-8 and PD-14 gas generators, Alexander Inozemtsev said that it was a mistake to consider the PD-8 gas generator as one of the PD-14 variants. “This is a completely new gas generator. It is smaller, more optimal for this small engine than the PD-14 gas generator and therefore a more technically risky project. The timing of its creation is very tough,” he explained.
Alexander Inozemtsev also noted that in addition to the PD-14 and PD-8, there will be a sharp increase in the production of PS-90A engines.
“Because the magnificent Tu-214 aircraft, ruined in the zero years ... the “leader” made a decision: to urgently make 70 aircraft before the 30th year. We start producing 120 PS-90A engines a year. This is along with military orders. This is also a huge volume. This is an engine that got into trouble... We received a type certificate on April 3, 1992... And thank God that it comes to life and will be made in the same quantities as the PD-14,” said the general designer of JSC UEC-Aviadvigatel.
And depending on the engine, the undeservedly ruined Tu-214 comes to life - a medium-haul airliner capable of flying 6-7 thousand km non-stop, for example, from Moscow to Khabarovsk. Also, this liner is used for special purposes as a reconnaissance and surveillance aircraft. “The equipment has been preserved, the technologies have been preserved. Now you just need to remove the military cabin and put in beautiful seats, and there will be a magnificent passenger plane,” said A. Inozemtsev.
And the most important question that Aleksey Samoletov asked the Deputy General Director of the UEC: "What is the fate of the PD-35?"
According to Alexander Inozemtsev, in conditions of limited resources, unfortunately, the project will develop more slowly than previously planned. The PD-35 demonstrator engine will be assembled and tested by 2024.
“The PD-35 project will go a little slower, with a shift to the right for two or three years, because gigantic money is needed. Without a doubt, we will assemble and test a demonstrator engine by 2024, no matter how hard it is. And then let's move on to the situation. But we will understand for sure, having assembled the engine, where we are in terms of technology, we are creating technologies for the long-haul aircraft market,” said A. Inozemtsev. He added that the main forces will now be applied to replicate the PD-14 and PS-90A engines.
At the same time, the General Designer of UEC-Aviadvigatel noted that the PD-35 has great potential. “This is the most innovative project. The latest technology is absolute. This is a market niche for long-haul twin-engine aircraft, a colossal scientific and technical potential, which we must enter with the help of the PD-35 and further develop the family from 25 tons to 50 tons. This is what we are aiming for,” said Alexander Inozemtsev.
He added that China is very interested in the PD-35 engine project. “Now it will be easier with the pandemic, we will revive.”
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Mig-31BM2 Super Irbis-E- Posts : 703
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You should put on a TU-214NEO by 2027/2028 with PD-14m. I can't see how the MC-21-300 Russia variant can only be built with Russian parts. However, in order to start the PD-14 series production early and gradually run up, there should be a TU-214NEO program. Possibly also an IL-76 with PD-14M variant from 2028.
Only this guarantees a quick ride that could later enable 360 and more engines per year from the PD-14.
Only this guarantees a quick ride that could later enable 360 and more engines per year from the PD-14.
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Rodion_Romanovic- Posts : 2414
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Mig-31BM2 Super Irbis-E wrote:You should put on a TU-214NEO by 2027/2028 with PD-14m. I can't see how the MC-21-300 Russia variant can only be built with Russian parts. However, in order to start the PD-14 series production early and gradually run up, there should be a TU-214NEO program. Possibly also an IL-76 with PD-14M variant from 2028.
Only this guarantees a quick ride that could later enable 360 and more engines per year from the PD-14.
Well in the article it says that they wanted to reserve the PD-14 for the MC-21 because of the high volume needed.
The will be able to reach 160 engines produced per year only by 2030. Considering that they want to produce 72 mc21 aircrafts per year this mean 144 engines plus 16 spares.
No room for other aircrafts model unless they manage someway to double the production and supply chain for the PD-14.
They can however more easily increment production of the PS90, for which they have already an established supply chain.
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limb- Posts : 1550
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Is it really true that the MC-21 cannot be produced until after 2030 due to sanctions? Why is that? Cant Chinese or Russian military avionics be used? Shouldnt certification take less time since Russia can just skip flights to the EU, 5 eyes, SK and Japan?
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who said that?limb wrote:Is it really true that the MC-21 cannot be produced until after 2030 due to sanctions? Why is that? Cant Chinese or Russian military avionics be used? Shouldnt certification take less time since Russia can just skip flights to the EU, 5 eyes, SK and Japan?
Modern civil avionics and other internal systems for import substitution on both SSJ100 and MC-21 are already being developed since several years. They should be able to start with serial production of the MC-21-310 in 2024 or 2025. Of course it will probably take a few more years to move from an initial serial production of something like 20- or 30 aircraft a year to the planned goal of more than 70 aircrafts a year.
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This is a relatively unbiased video about the future prospects of the Russian civil aviation under sanctions. The guy has mentioned that he actually really respects the МС-21 design and hoped that it could disrupt the boeing-airbus duopoly, and mentioned the Russian decisions so far were prudent. He even says that the Tu-214 is a good aircraft for the purpose. However he mentions that Russia has the capacity to only produce 10 Tu-214s in a year after 2025, according to the UАC, and he claims he is skeptical about the Russian aviation industry because of that. How could russia possibly hope to fulfill demand and expand production to even a fraction of domestic demand, when it comes to the Tu-214, Il-96 and SSJ-100?
Rodion_Romanovic- Posts : 2414
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limb wrote:This is a relatively unbiased video about the future prospects of the Russian civil aviation under sanctions. The guy has mentioned that he actually really respects the МС-21 design and hoped that it could disrupt the boeing-airbus duopoly, and mentioned the Russian decisions so far were prudent. He even says that the Tu-214 is a good aircraft for the purpose. However he mentions that Russia has the capacity to only produce 10 Tu-214s in a year after 2025, according to the UАC, and he claims he is skeptical about the Russian aviation industry because of that. How could russia possibly hope to fulfill demand and expand production to even a fraction of domestic demand, when it comes to the Tu-214, Il-96 and SSJ-100?
The video is from 3 months ago and doesn't say anything new.
And again it forgets that the issue of import substitution is ongoing since 2018. There are already domestic APU (auxiliary power units) for both the SSj100 and MC21, and new hydraulic system, navigation system, air condition system, brakes, landing gears, etc etc. are being developed and tested.
I do not know specifically about the Sidesticks for the MC21 , but I imagine that the kret concern or another company would be working on it.
As far as the spare parts for foreign airplanes it was already posted a couple of months ago (with links also in this thread) that Russia is planning to manufacture non original spare parts for airbus and Boeing aircrafts (also with support and expertise from Iran). That does not mean to just smuggle from China or Iran spare parts, but to manufacture them inside the country.
This of course could make the aircrafts lose their resale value abroad, but it is not a huge issue.
The question is mainly about the (western) engines: some parts like compressor and turbine discs have to be replaced after a few thousands flights and you cannot put a different one there. Furthermore blades and vanes mus also be changed occasionally.
Maybe most of the fleet can last enough until they can get spare parts for the engines.
And in a couple of years is probable that the political situation in the west will also be different.
Furthermore I do not believe much when they talk in the video about China risking to be also put on large sanctions.. China is an enormous market, western companies do not want to lose it completely. For them is better to tollerate some smuggling than to cut completely the market.
Anyway, starting from 2025 Russia should be able to produce at least 30 to 40 new airliners a year (10tu-214) and 20 t0 30 MC-21 310). That should help diminishing the need for the foreign aircrafts and allow the existing fleet to last longer.
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the production rates of the Tu-214 tell exactly what the production capacity of the plant producing the Tu-214 is. The pace of production of the MS-21 has already been announced, and the goal is 72 aircraft per year. In total, the volume of production of the TU-214, MS-21, SSJ-NEW, IL-114, IL-96 will amount to 120-150 civil aircraft annually. I have already brought here an exhaustive document on the production program for the supply of civilian passenger aircraft until 2030.
Last edited by Scorpius on Wed Aug 24, 2022 3:55 pm; edited 1 time in total
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especially for those who have forgotten or not seen:
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GarryB- Posts : 38981
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This is a relatively unbiased video about the future prospects of the Russian civil aviation under sanctions.
Is it?
The screen shot is clearly biased and a bit ridiculous considering that HATO was a very keen user of those shit old planes world wide...
Whether it is hard or easy for Russia to drop western parts and western aircraft... it needs to be done because they use their parts and planes as weapons to try to control Russia and make her do things that are not otherwise in her interests.
No matter the pain or hardship, Russia should break with the evil hostile west.
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ALAMO wrote:Well, considering that they have operated a quite impressive array of both Boeing and Airbus, well into sanction period - they surely have some solutions.
Let it be smuggling or unlicensed production, who really cares?
Russia does not need to learn a lot of experience from Iran, because Russia is a manufacturer of spare parts for Boeing and Airbus.
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