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    Russian Civil Aviation: News #4

    Backman
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    Post  Backman Thu Jul 07, 2022 8:32 am

    The internal aviation industry in Russia is clearly going to function differently than it did before the war. It will probably bet fuel at cost. The IL-96 was introduced 2-3 years before the Boeing 777. The IL 96 is not ancient by any means. Both the il96 and tu's can be used.

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    Post  PapaDragon Thu Jul 07, 2022 2:20 pm

    Backman wrote:The internal aviation industry in Russia is clearly going to function differently than it did before the war. It will probably bet fuel at cost. The IL-96 was introduced 2-3 years before the Boeing 777. The IL 96 is not ancient by any means. Both the il96 and tu's can be used.

    Russian requirements for wide body airliners are couple of dozen in total

    Everything else is done with mediums and lights

    So even if they don't do anything new with Il-96 they are still covered, they don't need to operate with profit, just to break even (which they will)

    Money will be made by every other plane

    But they will be doing something new with Il-96 so it's all good

    Likei said, couple of dozen

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    Firebird


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    Post  Firebird Thu Jul 07, 2022 5:51 pm

    I've never really understood why Russia couldn't count on more "loyal partners" to up the numbers of good/reasonable home grown jets.

    Obviouslty there are the "total outcasts" from Uncle Sham ie Venezuela, Iran, Belarus etc.
    But also a variety of others at different points on the scale. Kazakstan, India, Indonesia and many more.

    I think the EU or Britain had some moronic idea they would seize any Russian made plane that landed on their territory as part of the anti anti-Nazi "sanctions".

    A huge number of Boeing and Airbus jets fly over Russia between the huge population centres of Europe and Asia.

    How about Russia starts bringing in quotas on the number of jets allowed to fly into Russian airspace.
    Firstly target US, British/similar airlines. Then in time say to the Asians they must phase out EU/US jets to whatever extent and fly only Russian or Asian or other planes over Russian airspace.

    Sounds fair and sounds an effective way to stop the nonsense behaviour of Uncle Sham and its bitches.

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    Post  Scorpius Thu Jul 07, 2022 5:54 pm

    Hey, I've said before that the condition of the aircraft factory in Voronezh will not allow them to produce more than 2-3 such aircraft per year. So the figures that were mentioned are the full utilization of production capacity, and not the lack of need.

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    sepheronx
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    Post  sepheronx Thu Jul 07, 2022 6:33 pm

    Firebird wrote:I've never really understood why Russia couldn't count on more "loyal partners" to up the numbers of good/reasonable home grown jets.

    Obviouslty there are the "total outcasts" from Uncle Sham ie Venezuela, Iran, Belarus etc.
    But also a variety of others at different points on the scale. Kazakstan, India, Indonesia and many more.

    I think the EU or Britain had some moronic idea they would seize any Russian made plane that landed on their territory as part of the anti anti-Nazi "sanctions".

    A huge number of Boeing and Airbus jets fly over Russia between the huge population centres of Europe and Asia.

    How about Russia starts bringing in quotas on the number of jets allowed to fly into Russian airspace.
    Firstly target US, British/similar airlines. Then in time say to the Asians they must phase out EU/US jets to whatever extent and fly only Russian or Asian or other planes over Russian airspace.

    Sounds fair and sounds an effective way to stop the nonsense behaviour of Uncle Sham and its bitches.

    US and Europe have no planes flying over Russia as they are banned from russian airspace.
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    Post  rigoletto Thu Jul 07, 2022 7:01 pm

    sepheronx wrote:US and Europe have no planes flying over Russia as they are banned from russian airspace.

    He was referring to the aircrafts themselves, the quota would be over flying non-Russian made aircrafts.

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    GarryB
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    Post  GarryB Fri Jul 08, 2022 7:13 am

    There was nothing at all wrong with the Il-96 design, its engines were a bit old and of course there being four engines that leads to higher drag and frontal area which effects performance but at the time there was no better engine or alternative solution that made sense.

    Russia is not going to be turning back to the west so its future lies in developing ties with the rest of the world so a wide bodied long range airliner is actually something they will probably want more than a dozen examples of, and once in production and use I think the Russian military could probably find some uses for the design as well... their next generation radar will be surface mounted, so a large aircraft with long range and fuel efficiency with the capacity to take a lot of crew stations as well as perhaps jamming and electronic equipment on board to analyse signals would be a useful aircraft and being able to operate long periods away from base would be a bonus.

    Its large size it could combine the functions of JSTARS and AWACS and a jamming platform with lots of potential power take off from those large engines too.

    A new airborne laser system could also be developed for the aircraft too... and for inflight refuelling it would be ideal it could operate on Russian long range bomber bases and take off with the bombers and match their high subsonic speed and fly 1-2 thousand kms up to the north pole area and then start fuelling the bombers to fill their fuel tanks to max capacity when they are 2-3 thousand kms from base and then the inflight refuelling planes could return to Russian bases while the bombers can continue their missiles with max range potential...

    For conventional missions they could fly most of the way to the target area with the bombers and refuel them close to the target in international airspace and then return to base allowing the bombers to launch their attacks with full fuel but close to the target areas with standoff munitions and then be able to head home at high speed because of the excess fuel allowing high throttle settings...

    Low production numbers likely put off other airlines, but Russian airlines can now make it work and I am sure KRET can make absolutely world class avionics for these planes to make them very popular aircraft.

    Perhaps a hostile aircraft charge for overflights where Boeing and Airbus aircraft have to pay extra for overflights of Russian airspace might be a good idea... I am sure the Chinese government would support that too as Chinese designed airliners would be considered friendly aircraft too.

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    Post  Firebird Fri Jul 08, 2022 10:17 am

    sepheronx wrote:
    Firebird wrote:I've never really understood why Russia couldn't count on more "loyal partners" to up the numbers of good/reasonable home grown jets.

    Obviouslty there are the "total outcasts" from Uncle Sham ie Venezuela, Iran, Belarus etc.
    But also a variety of others at different points on the scale. Kazakstan, India, Indonesia and many more.

    I think the EU or Britain had some moronic idea they would seize any Russian made plane that landed on their territory as part of the anti anti-Nazi "sanctions".

    A huge number of Boeing and Airbus jets fly over Russia between the huge population centres of Europe and Asia.

    How about Russia starts bringing in quotas on the number of jets allowed to fly into Russian airspace.
    Firstly target US, British/similar airlines. Then in time say to the Asians they must phase out EU/US jets to whatever extent and fly only Russian or Asian or other planes over Russian airspace.

    Sounds fair and sounds an effective way to stop the nonsense behaviour of Uncle Sham and its bitches.

    US and Europe have no planes flying over Russia as they are banned from russian airspace.

    Yes but aren't Boeings and Airbuses owned by non US and non Euro carriers still allowed over Ru airspace.

    I would successively target any US or Euro plane over time. Obviously giving non US and non Euro carriers enough time to change to non Airbus and non Boeing planes.
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    Post  limb Mon Jul 11, 2022 9:50 am

    Why would it take until 2030 for MS-21 serial production to be feasible?
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    Post  sepheronx Mon Jul 11, 2022 9:58 am

    Firebird wrote:
    sepheronx wrote:
    Firebird wrote:I've never really understood why Russia couldn't count on more "loyal partners" to up the numbers of good/reasonable home grown jets.

    Obviouslty there are the "total outcasts" from Uncle Sham ie Venezuela, Iran, Belarus etc.
    But also a variety of others at different points on the scale. Kazakstan, India, Indonesia and many more.

    I think the EU or Britain had some moronic idea they would seize any Russian made plane that landed on their territory as part of the anti anti-Nazi "sanctions".

    A huge number of Boeing and Airbus jets fly over Russia between the huge population centres of Europe and Asia.

    How about Russia starts bringing in quotas on the number of jets allowed to fly into Russian airspace.
    Firstly target US, British/similar airlines. Then in time say to the Asians they must phase out EU/US jets to whatever extent and fly only Russian or Asian or other planes over Russian airspace.

    Sounds fair and sounds an effective way to stop the nonsense behaviour of Uncle Sham and its bitches.

    US and Europe have no planes flying over Russia as they are banned from russian airspace.

    Yes but aren't Boeings and Airbuses owned by non US and non Euro carriers still allowed over Ru airspace.

    I would successively target any US or Euro plane over time. Obviously giving non US and non Euro carriers enough time to change to non Airbus and non Boeing planes.

    I don't know if Russia could do that other than creating some kind of arbitrary certificate standard to fly over their country thus limiting what jets can fly over them. But that would alienate the friendly countries too.

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    Post  GarryB Mon Jul 11, 2022 12:51 pm

    Plus if they banned Boeings and Airbuses from flying in their airspace then the EU will simply ban Russian planes from EU airspace meaning planes flying from Asia to Europe would all have to bypass Russian airspace making it a level playing field.

    By banning European airlines that have banned Russian airlines from using their airspace the airlines operating to Asia and lots of places in the rest of the world where they used to save time and money crossing Russian airspace will be penalised while rest of the world airlines can cross Russian airspace and save money while paying overflight fees to Russia for the priviledge.

    They save money and hours off flight times so they will get more business and squease out Hostile nations airlines.

    Finair has already said they are losing money because 20% of their passengers were Russians and they were making good money with flights to Asia that cut through Russian airspace. The same flights take three to four hours longer which costs more at a time when they want more people flying to make up for income lost during Covid.

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    kvs
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    Post  kvs Mon Jul 11, 2022 1:13 pm

    There is absolutely no need for such sanctions. The idea of tracking the make of jets overflying Russia is not only a nightmare
    to implement, it is detrimental to countries that are not part of the NATzO hyena pack with ambitions to dismember Russia. The
    notion that Russia will gain from more aircraft sales if it starts to squeeze Boeing and Airbus from its skies is rather detached from
    reality. Russia first needs to build up its own domestic production capacity before squeezing anybody on the world market.

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    Post  limb Mon Jul 11, 2022 1:47 pm

    Any news on the MS-21? Im fucking pissed that the one large russian aircraft which is already built, cutting edge and proven is becoming stillborn due to some western components. What exactly does it have that russians can't produce domestically?
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    Post  GarryB Mon Jul 11, 2022 4:42 pm

    It was built with western bits because that was what the customers were wanting at the time, and there were too many 5th columnists within Russian aviation... before 2014 when Ukrainian engines were still being bought from the Ukraine they managed to kill the Il-106 and Tu-330 and several other promising projects because they were a threat to Ukrainian and western projects.

    Estimates for how long it will take to replace the components vary but odds are actually rather good the rest of the world might have some components they can buy while developing their own replacements.

    Making everything yourself is inefficient unless you need a lot of them and there were not an enormous number of solid offers for Russian aircraft before... that has now changed so the demand will create supply because makers can now say that Russia will be making lots of new planes over the next decade or so and so the market for their product is assured... meaning getting loans and investors shouldn't be too hard... not to mention there is probably a bit of financial assistance floating around for suitable companies that could fill the gaps.
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    Post  owais.usmani Tue Jul 12, 2022 2:07 pm

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    Backman
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    Post  Backman Tue Jul 12, 2022 10:33 pm

    ^ That's some sanctions obstruction by Loas. The sanctions war in air travel has been fierce. I hope they know what they are getting into.

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    Post  GarryB Wed Jul 13, 2022 5:47 am

    Laos is in the Guinness book of world records for being the most heavily bombed country in the world.

    This is a smart move economically... there is not much chance otherwise of them being an air hub in the region, so this is a good way for them to get contacts and money and people traveling to their country.

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    Post  Backman Thu Jul 21, 2022 5:25 am

    Where was that supersonic transport thread ? I cannot find it. Anyway there has been some news. The official rendering of the actual full size prototype sst has been released by Boom. There's a few pretty big changes. 4 engines underneath instead of a 3 holer. And the front end is a bit blunter.

    It actually more resembles Tupolevs tu-444 concept sst now. Engineers always come to similar conclusions.



    Russian Civil Aviation: News #4 - Page 36 ODRhZmY5

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    Post  kvs Thu Jul 21, 2022 1:20 pm

    I am sure no fanboi wanking about IP theft by untermenschen will come up. Only Russia needs to perpetually prove that it has
    humans with functional brains.

    The war in Ukraine and the "divorce" from the west were inevitable outcomes of pathological western hubris and double standards.

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    Post  Backman Thu Jul 21, 2022 8:37 pm


    The EU, as afar as Kommersant is aware, has lifted the ban on deliveries to 🇷🇺 of aviation products, which will be allowed to the extent necessary to ensure the safety standards of civil aviation of the International Civil Aviation Organization (ICAO).

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    Post  Kiko Thu Jul 21, 2022 9:49 pm

    Backman wrote:
    The EU, as afar as Kommersant is aware, has lifted the ban on deliveries to 🇷🇺 of aviation products, which will be allowed to the extent necessary to ensure the safety standards of civil aviation of the International Civil Aviation Organization (ICAO).

    Further details:

    The EU lifts the ban on supplies of various aviation products to Russia, 21.07.2022.

    Brussels also eased restrictions related to agricultural production and the transportation of Russian oil to third countries.

    The European Council has released on Thursday the contents of its "maintenance and alignment package" in response to Russia's operation in Ukraine, which plans to lift the ban on the supply of some aviation items to Moscow.

    In particular, the Community bloc will make it possible to provide technical assistance in the field of aviation "to the extent necessary to safeguard the work of establishing industrial technical standards of the International Civil Aviation Organization (ICAO).

    In addition, "slight amendments" will be introduced regarding the ban on transactions with Russian public entities in order to "ensure access to justice."

    In parallel, Brussels extended the exemption from its sanctions prohibiting doing business with certain state organizations. In this way, restrictions related to Russian agricultural production and oil transportation to third countries will be eased. The EU stressed that these measures were adopted to "avoid any negative consequences" for food and energy security globally.

    In this regard, they reiterated that "none of the measures adopted today or earlier" is aimed at affecting trade in food and agricultural products, including wheat and fertilizers, between Russia and third countries.

    EU restrictions also do not prohibit other nations or their citizens operating outside the bloc from buying medical or pharmaceutical goods.

    Yandex Translate from Spanish

    https://actualidad.rt.com/actualidad/436244-ue-suaviza-sanciones-rusia-ucrania

    Also:

    WSJ: EU lifted sanctions against PJSC-VSMPO-Avisma

    The European Union has blocked a proposal to impose sanctions against the Russian steel company PJSC VSMPO-Avisma. France and other member states objected to the move over fears of a possible Russian ban on titanium exports to the EU, The Wall Street Journal reported.

    Diplomats familiar with the topic said the European Union lifted sanctions on steelmakers at the last minute for fear of Russian retaliation.

    VSMPO-Avisma was supposed to be included in the seventh package of sanctions against Russia. The EU planned to "restrict the company's sale of military and dual-use goods".

    https://rg.ru/2022/07/21/evrosoiuz-otkazalsia-ot-sankcij-v-otnoshenii-pao-vsmpo-avisma.html

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    Post  sepheronx Fri Jul 22, 2022 3:42 am

    Looks like Russia has potentially more options to strike at EU countries economically then.
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    Post  GarryB Fri Jul 22, 2022 11:08 am

    Yeah, so effectively they have lifted bans on things where they make good money like aircraft parts for their own aircraft and agricultural and food and fertiliser products because they don't want to get screwed by Russia with their own sanctions.

    Not banning steel exports from Russia because they don't want titanium exports from Russia to them is amusing too and exposes their vulnerability and fears for all to see.

    What if as a result of their sanctions the Russians start making their own parts to keep western planes operating... they could use them and also sell them on the international market at prices the western companies that make the planes can't compete as costing them billions.

    Denying them fertiliser chemicals would also damage the European economy and the loss of Russian titanium parts means they probably couldn't make parts for their own planes let alone for Russian ones...

    I hope the Russians are taking careful note of what would hurt them because they didn't do this for Russia, they did it for themselves, so in a few areas they realised the damage done to Russia would be minimal but the damage to the EU would be significant... so Russia could implement the sanctions themselves to damage the EU in response to their attempts to damage Russia.

    Russia needs laws to gradually get rid of western airliners as a matter of policy for Russian owned airlines because otherwise they might end up staying...

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    Post  Kiko Mon Jul 25, 2022 12:27 pm

    In Russia, they created a replacement for electronics for Superjet and MS-21 liners, 25.07.2022.

    Russia has created a replacement for American electronics for the Superjet and MS-21 liners.

    The company, which is part of Rostec, has created electronics for communication systems for Russian civil aircraft Sukhoi Superjet-100 and MS-21, the press service of the holding reported.

    "Ruselectronics Holding has developed electronic components for the communications equipment of Superjet and MS-21 aircraft. The technical parameters of the new devices make it possible to completely replace American products in the onboard radio communications equipment," the company said.

    The devices are designed for switching high-frequency and super-high-frequency electrical circuits as part of radar and communications equipment. The products have been tested.

    The components were developed by the Penza NIIEMP by order of the Nizhny Novgorod Research and Production Enterprise Polet.

    Vyacheslav Zuev, Director General of the Institute, noted that the use of high-frequency vacuum circuit breakers developed by NIIEMP as part of on-board radio communication equipment will make it possible to completely abandon similar products from American manufacturers Jennings Technology and Kilovac, increase the service life and increase the reliability of communication equipment.

    “Today, the enterprise plans to produce 1,500 such devices annually for the needs of NPP Polet. We are ready to offer our products to other customers as well – production capacities allow us to multiply the output of high-frequency vacuum circuit breakers in the event of additional orders,” he added.

    For the Superjet , Polet produces antennas and short-range radio stations.

    As Yury Borisov , who then held the post of Deputy Prime Minister, noted in early June , the certification of the MS-21 with a domestic engine and the Sukhoi Superjet New with the replacement of 38 imported systems and components with Russian ones is planned to be completed by the end of 2023.

    https://ria.ru/20220725/elektronika-1804734844.html

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    Post  Rodion_Romanovic Wed Jul 27, 2022 8:34 pm

    Iran will export aircraft equipment to Russia and repair Russian aircraft

    https://t.me/readovkanews/39313


    Moscow tries to get around the limits of its civil aviation industry through an agreement with Iran. Tehran will supply Russia with non-original spare parts for Boing aircraft purchased prior to the special operation. In addition, Iran will repair Russian civilian aircraft and carry out their maintenance.
    In addition, Moscow and Tehran have agreed to increase passenger flights to 35 per week.



    At the end of May, there was information in the media that Russian airlines would have enough spare parts for aircraft until the end of summer.  If Russia did not find new suppliers, airlines would have to dismantle the planes for spare parts.  Half of the Russian aircraft fleet could be under threat.  According to Mehrnews, this issue has now been resolved, thanks to a bilateral agreement.

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