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    Russian Civil Aviation: News #4

    GunshipDemocracy
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    Post  GunshipDemocracy Sun Sep 11, 2022 6:17 am

    Kiko wrote:The Russian aviation industry challenged the success of the USSR, by Olga Samofalova for VZGLYAD. 09.08.2022.


    Aeroflot's portfolio of orders includes 40 Tu-214 aircraft. However, this aircraft is rather an intermediate stage. “This aircraft also has no flight restrictions and can fly all over the world. But it is unlikely to become massive. This is an aircraft with outdated technologies, in a number of characteristics it is inferior to Western counterparts a

    https://vz.ru/economy/2022/9/8/1176428.html

    This journo must have been smoking stuff form liberal sources. Tu-204 was actually designed on level of Boeing 757 or Airbus 321. Avionics can be replaced to new one but nothing's wrong with the hull. Of coruse MS-21 is better but dont forget: Russia needa also AWACS/ ASW platform. Guess where Tu-204/214 could go Smile

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    Post  Rodion_Romanovic Sun Sep 11, 2022 10:16 am

    GunshipDemocracy wrote:
    Kiko wrote:The Russian aviation industry challenged the success of the USSR, by Olga Samofalova for VZGLYAD. 09.08.2022.


    Aeroflot's portfolio of orders includes 40 Tu-214 aircraft. However, this aircraft is rather an intermediate stage. “This aircraft also has no flight restrictions and can fly all over the world. But it is unlikely to become massive. This is an aircraft with outdated technologies, in a number of characteristics it is inferior to Western counterparts a

    https://vz.ru/economy/2022/9/8/1176428.html

    This journo must have been smoking stuff form liberal sources. Tu-204 was actually designed on level of Boeing 757 or Airbus 321. Avionics can be replaced to new one but nothing's wrong with the hull. Of coruse MS-21 is better but dont forget:  Russia needa also AWACS/ ASW platform. Guess where Tu-204/214 could go Smile

    Also because the current 737 max is nothing but the third modernisation of the original 737 introduced in 1968 (the first modernisation with CFM engines was done in the 80s (737 "classic") and the 737 next gen with improved CFM engines, glass cockpit and  winglets entered into service in December 1997.

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    GunshipDemocracy
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    Post  GunshipDemocracy Sun Sep 11, 2022 9:17 pm

    Rodion_Romanovic wrote:

    Also because the current 737 max is nothing but the third modernisation of the original 737 introduced in 1968 (the first modernisation with CFM engines was done in the 80s (737 "classic") and the 737 next gen with improved CFM engines, glass cockpit and  winglets entered into service in December 1997.

    There is yet a huge difference: Tu-204 of Soviet origin bad bad bad and Boeing-737 US aaaaaa suuuper. At least in some western colonized minds.
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    Post  lancelot Sun Sep 11, 2022 10:05 pm

    The Russian state chose not to fund the Tu-204SM project, which would have modernized the avionics and turned it into a fly by wire aircraft, and diverted all the funds into MC-21 development. I think that was a good option, but it also means that such an aircraft is not available for production right now. Any Tu-204 they produce will still be obsolete because of that. But MC-21 should enter production in 2 years.
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    Post  Rodion_Romanovic Sun Sep 11, 2022 10:56 pm

    lancelot wrote:The Russian state chose not to fund the Tu-204SM project, which would have modernized the avionics and turned it into a fly by wire aircraft, and diverted all the funds into MC-21 development. I think that was a good option, but it also means that such an aircraft is not available for production right now. Any Tu-204 they produce will still be obsolete because of that. But MC-21 should enter production in 2 years.
    The problem is that the 204sm still had imported avionics and engines with Pratt and Witthney components, so they would still need an import substitution version of it, while the older tu214 is fully Russian.

    They can still think about doing a modernised version of it, using avionics and other systems from the MC-21 and new PD-14 M or PD-16 engines, that could be an alternative to the MC-21-400 in some location or for some special application (also because is a metal plane), but I doubt that it will be done before 2030, aslo because the PD14 engine series are reserved for the MC21 at least until they are able to produce much more than 150 engines per year.

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    Post  GarryB Mon Sep 12, 2022 9:02 am

    There is no such thing as obsolete avionics.... the core of the business is engines... if you put decent Russian made engines like PS-90A3s or which ever is the all Russian version they should be fine for now.

    In the longer term when better engines and domestic avionics can be installed then install them... until then they will still be better than any aircraft type they are not allowed to operate.

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    Post  GunshipDemocracy Mon Sep 12, 2022 12:43 pm

    GarryB wrote:There is no such thing as obsolete avionics.... the core of the business is engines... if you put decent Russian made engines like PS-90A3s or which ever is the all Russian version they should be fine for now.

    In the longer term when better engines and domestic avionics can be installed then install them... until then they will still be better than any aircraft type they are not allowed to operate.

    Let me draw attention to important features of Tu-214/Tu-204SM

    - long haul 7000-8000km
    -certified means can fly all over the world
    -fully Russian Tu-214 (engines PD90  avionics) , the only version AFAIK was Tu-204-120 had RR engines.

    So no it makes sense to produce. In August Chermezov mentioned about 70 new Tu-204/214 till 2030 but as I can see it has changed.
    Iran/Cuba or other US endangered counites also can enjoy new air liner.

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    Post  Kiko Mon Sep 12, 2022 9:56 pm

    Another 15 billion rubles will be given to the MS-21 aircraft project, by Arina Litova for Viedomosti. 09.12.2022.

    Money is needed to expand production capacity, experts say.

    The project of the domestic medium-haul aircraft MS-21 will receive an additional 15 billion rubles. to the expansion of production. This was announced by Prime Minister Mikhail Mishustin during an operational meeting with deputy prime ministers on September 12 (the transcript is available on the website of the Cabinet of Ministers).

    The funds will be allocated as part of a strategy to support the Russian economy in the face of sanctions pressure, Mishustin said. The government as a whole will allocate more than 100 billion rubles for these purposes.

    Additional comments were not provided to Vedomosti at the time of publication in the Ministry of Industry and Trade, as well as in the manufacturer of the MS-21 and other Russian aircraft - the United Aircraft Corporation ( UAC , part of Rostec) - were not provided.

    At the meeting, Mishustin also said that state support of 25 billion rubles. will receive an "air traffic management system". On September 1, Vedomosti wrote about plans to allocate such an amount in the form of subsidies to the main Russian provider of air navigation services - the State Corporation for Air Traffic Management (State Air Traffic Management Corporation; subordinate to Rosaviatsia).

    This is not the first time that budget funds have been allocated to support the MS-21 project. In January 2019, the government allocated 10.5 billion rubles. for the creation, production and maintenance of these aircraft. The money had to be received within three years: in 2019 - 1.58 billion rubles, in 2020 and 2021. - 4.11 and 4.81 billion rubles. respectively. Director General of Roscosmos Yuri Borisov, who in 2018 held the post of Deputy Prime Minister in charge of industry, then estimated the cost of creating MS-21 at 465 billion rubles. until 2025.

    According to the program for the development of the aviation industry until 2030, domestic carriers should receive 270 MS-21 aircraft. At the same time, 210 of these aircraft will be bought by Aeroflot , the airline's CEO Sergei Aleksandrovsky said at a meeting with President Vladimir Putin (Vedomosti wrote about this on August 26). At the EEF-2022 in Vladivostok, on September 7, Aeroflot signed a contract with UAC for almost 1 trillion rubles. for the purchase of 339 domestic aircraft, including 210 MS-21, which will be leased from 2023 to 2030. Firm orders for the MS-21 in 2018 were also made by the Red Wings airlines (16 aircraft) and Iraero (10 aircraft), as well as the leasing companies VEB-Leasing, Sberbank Leasing and Ilyushin Finance.

    In 2022, the Russian aviation industry received an unprecedented amount of state support due to sanctions imposed against it by unfriendly countries after the start of a special military operation (SVO) in Ukraine. 100 billion rubles were allocated to domestic airlines. for the organization of transportation within the country. In June, the Federal Air Transport Agency distributed these funds, and the Aeroflot group received half of the subsidies.

    Carriers also received 19.4 billion rubles. for the return of tickets for flights canceled due to external restrictions. Russian cargo airlines received 2.9 billion rubles. subsidies. State support of 3.79 billion rubles. 11 airports in the south and center of Russia that were closed after the start of the NWO were also received.

    The state has also invested in selected Russian airlines. Aeroflot was recapitalized by 52.5 billion rubles, after which the state's share in the airline increased to 73.77%. 17 billion rubles were allocated for the restructuring of the debt obligations of Ural Airlines, Aurora and S7. from the National Wealth Fund (NWF).

    The anti-Russian sanctions imposed against the Russian Federation after the start of the NWO effectively cut off the access of Russian airlines to new imported equipment (including the most common Boeing and Airbus in their fleets), as well as to maintenance and insurance of these aircraft (AC).

    The editor-in-chief of the portal Avia.ru Roman Gusarov suggests that the allocated 15 billion rubles. for the MS-21 will be aimed at accelerating the serial production of aircraft. He added that under the sanctions and blocking the supply of imported aircraft, the MS-21 aircraft are “very much needed by airlines.”

    HSE expert Fyodor Borisov also connects the need to expand the production of MS-21 liners with the need to increase production capacity for this aircraft. “If earlier this airliner was supposed to become a competitor to Airbus, now the MS-21 is generally one of the few aircraft available for Russian airlines,” the expert explains.

    According to Borisov, the amount allocated for MS-21 "is not excessive." “Moreover, additional investments in MS-21 are beneficial for the state, since the money will return to the budget through the fiscal system in a few years,” adds Gusarov.

    https://www.vedomosti.ru/business/articles/2022/09/12/940428-samoleta-ms-21-15-mlrd

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    Post  ludovicense Tue Sep 13, 2022 3:04 pm

    Kiko wrote:Another 15 billion rubles will be given to the MS-21 aircraft project, by Arina Litova for Viedomosti. 09.12.2022.

    Money is needed to expand production capacity, experts say.

    The project of the domestic medium-haul aircraft MS-21 will receive an additional 15 billion rubles. to the expansion of production. This was announced by Prime Minister Mikhail Mishustin during an operational meeting with deputy prime ministers on September 12 (the transcript is available on the website of the Cabinet of Ministers).

    The funds will be allocated as part of a strategy to support the Russian economy in the face of sanctions pressure, Mishustin said. The government as a whole will allocate more than 100 billion rubles for these purposes.

    Additional comments were not provided to Vedomosti at the time of publication in the Ministry of Industry and Trade, as well as in the manufacturer of the MS-21 and other Russian aircraft - the United Aircraft Corporation ( UAC , part of Rostec) - were not provided.

    At the meeting, Mishustin also said that state support of 25 billion rubles. will receive an "air traffic management system". On September 1, Vedomosti wrote about plans to allocate such an amount in the form of subsidies to the main Russian provider of air navigation services - the State Corporation for Air Traffic Management (State Air Traffic Management Corporation; subordinate to Rosaviatsia).

    This is not the first time that budget funds have been allocated to support the MS-21 project. In January 2019, the government allocated 10.5 billion rubles. for the creation, production and maintenance of these aircraft. The money had to be received within three years: in 2019 - 1.58 billion rubles, in 2020 and 2021. - 4.11 and 4.81 billion rubles. respectively. Director General of Roscosmos Yuri Borisov, who in 2018 held the post of Deputy Prime Minister in charge of industry, then estimated the cost of creating MS-21 at 465 billion rubles. until 2025.

    According to the program for the development of the aviation industry until 2030, domestic carriers should receive 270 MS-21 aircraft. At the same time, 210 of these aircraft will be bought by Aeroflot , the airline's CEO Sergei Aleksandrovsky said at a meeting with President Vladimir Putin (Vedomosti wrote about this on August 26). At the EEF-2022 in Vladivostok, on September 7, Aeroflot signed a contract with UAC for almost 1 trillion rubles. for the purchase of 339 domestic aircraft, including 210 MS-21, which will be leased from 2023 to 2030. Firm orders for the MS-21 in 2018 were also made by the Red Wings airlines (16 aircraft) and Iraero (10 aircraft), as well as the leasing companies VEB-Leasing, Sberbank Leasing and Ilyushin Finance.

    In 2022, the Russian aviation industry received an unprecedented amount of state support due to sanctions imposed against it by unfriendly countries after the start of a special military operation (SVO) in Ukraine. 100 billion rubles were allocated to domestic airlines. for the organization of transportation within the country. In June, the Federal Air Transport Agency distributed these funds, and the Aeroflot group received half of the subsidies.

    Carriers also received 19.4 billion rubles. for the return of tickets for flights canceled due to external restrictions. Russian cargo airlines received 2.9 billion rubles. subsidies. State support of 3.79 billion rubles. 11 airports in the south and center of Russia that were closed after the start of the NWO were also received.

    The state has also invested in selected Russian airlines. Aeroflot was recapitalized by 52.5 billion rubles, after which the state's share in the airline increased to 73.77%. 17 billion rubles were allocated for the restructuring of the debt obligations of Ural Airlines, Aurora and S7. from the National Wealth Fund (NWF).

    The anti-Russian sanctions imposed against the Russian Federation after the start of the NWO effectively cut off the access of Russian airlines to new imported equipment (including the most common Boeing and Airbus in their fleets), as well as to maintenance and insurance of these aircraft (AC).

    The editor-in-chief of the portal Avia.ru Roman Gusarov suggests that the allocated 15 billion rubles. for the MS-21 will be aimed at accelerating the serial production of aircraft. He added that under the sanctions and blocking the supply of imported aircraft, the MS-21 aircraft are “very much needed by airlines.”

    HSE expert Fyodor Borisov also connects the need to expand the production of MS-21 liners with the need to increase production capacity for this aircraft. “If earlier this airliner was supposed to become a competitor to Airbus, now the MS-21 is generally one of the few aircraft available for Russian airlines,” the expert explains.

    According to Borisov, the amount allocated for MS-21 "is not excessive." “Moreover, additional investments in MS-21 are beneficial for the state, since the money will return to the budget through the fiscal system in a few years,” adds Gusarov.

    https://www.vedomosti.ru/business/articles/2022/09/12/940428-samoleta-ms-21-15-mlrd

    If Russia had invested massively in its aeronautical industry from 2014 until now, it would be in another stage and would not be experiencing this "squeeze". They should never have given up their own development independently of cooperation with the West. In any case, investing in the MC 21 as a reference aircraft to replace Boeing and Airbus is a wise decision. The potential of this aircraft is enormous. Even the success of this aircraft is a guarantee of security not only for Russia, but for everyone who wants to get out of the USA/EU blackmail, since everyone depends on them in this segment.

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    Post  lancelot Tue Sep 13, 2022 3:59 pm

    ludovicense wrote:If Russia had invested massively in its aeronautical industry from 2014 until now, it would be in another stage and would not be experiencing this "squeeze". They should never have given up their own development independently of cooperation with the West. In any case, investing in the MC 21 as a reference aircraft to replace Boeing and Airbus is a wise decision. The potential of this aircraft is enormous. Even the success of this aircraft is a guarantee of security not only for Russia, but for everyone who wants to get out of the USA/EU blackmail, since everyone depends on them in this segment.
    Russia should license produce this aircraft in India and/or China.
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    Post  GarryB Wed Sep 14, 2022 4:30 am


    If Russia had invested massively in its aeronautical industry from 2014 until now, it would be in another stage and would not be experiencing this "squeeze".

    The problem was there was no market for these Russian planes at the time because western planes leased were in place as the solution to the problem and as long as western airline companies didn't have Russian airlines and Russian airspace under sanctions then there was nothing to push those Russian airlines to shift from what they were already using.

    International organisations like the WTO demand free and fair trade so Russian airlines could just stop using western aircraft for no reason, and an all Russian aircraft policy goes against those rules even though that sort of thing is practised everywhere behind closed doors.

    The funding by the government of civilian airliners is considered bad too... western companies get away with it by their militaries simply buying lots of Boeings and Airbuses when airlines don't buy so many... most military forces have an enormous range of roles modified civilian airine aircraft can do with a little modification... from VIP transport with almost no modification to ELINT and MPA and transport and inflight refuelling  and AWACS and plenty of other missions... all paying top dollar to Boeing and Airbus to keep their bottom lines nice and healthy even in difficult times.

    Interestingly in the case of Russia there are enormous numbers of planes that need to be replaced from Il-20/22 aircraft, through the Il-38 Mays, Tu-134 transports , Tu-154Ms etc etc.

    There is a Tupolev design called Tu-330 that is a transport plane based on the Tu-204/214 that is in the 35 ton payload class that would sit nicely between the An-12 and old Il-76 in performance, but it was never built because the orcs saw it as a threat to the An-70, and the Tu-204 and Tu-214 were not in mass production so the commonality didn't matter so much.

    Well now the Tu-204 and Tu-214 are going to be produced for the airlines in very significant numbers it just makes sense to say... well the military did buy a few Tu-214s... how about making some more and looking at that transport again in a payload category that is going to be very empty soon as old Il-76s are upgraded or scrapped and the An-12s are getting very worn out and will be scrapped too soon.

    Some might argue that this is not relevant because these are civilian aircraft, but combining the investment for civilian and military products is part of the reason Russia gets such value for money...

    In the west the US Navy does not have the same fighters or SAMs as the Army or the airforce... even their F-35s are special versions... the F-4 showed it didn't have to be like that... and the ESSM is actually an ancient Sparrow missile the Air Force no longer uses.

    Even the 20mm vulcan is slightly different in the Phalanx.
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    Post  ludovicense Wed Sep 14, 2022 1:43 pm

    lancelot wrote:
    ludovicense wrote:If Russia had invested massively in its aeronautical industry from 2014 until now, it would be in another stage and would not be experiencing this "squeeze". They should never have given up their own development independently of cooperation with the West. In any case, investing in the MC 21 as a reference aircraft to replace Boeing and Airbus is a wise decision. The potential of this aircraft is enormous. Even the success of this aircraft is a guarantee of security not only for Russia, but for everyone who wants to get out of the USA/EU blackmail, since everyone depends on them in this segment.
    Russia should license produce this aircraft in India and/or China.

    I think that in the future the MC 21 will inexorably fly in India, China and Iran, mainly. I also believe in African companies like Egypt and Algeria and in the Caucasian countries. The sanctions against Russian airlines has the world on alert, as we are all referents of the western aeronautical industries.
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    Post  ludovicense Wed Sep 14, 2022 1:54 pm

    GarryB wrote:

    If Russia had invested massively in its aeronautical industry from 2014 until now, it would be in another stage and would not be experiencing this "squeeze".

    The problem was there was no market for these Russian planes at the time because western planes leased were in place as the solution to the problem and as long as western airline companies didn't have Russian airlines and Russian airspace under sanctions then there was nothing to push those Russian airlines to shift from what they were already using.

    International organisations like the WTO demand free and fair trade so Russian airlines could just stop using western aircraft for no reason, and an all Russian aircraft policy goes against those rules even though that sort of thing is practised everywhere behind closed doors.

    The funding by the government of civilian airliners is considered bad too... western companies get away with it by their militaries simply buying lots of Boeings and Airbuses when airlines don't buy so many... most military forces have an enormous range of roles modified civilian airine aircraft can do with a little modification... from VIP transport with almost no modification to ELINT and MPA and transport and inflight refuelling  and AWACS and plenty of other missions... all paying top dollar to Boeing and Airbus to keep their bottom lines nice and healthy even in difficult times.

    Interestingly in the case of Russia there are enormous numbers of planes that need to be replaced from Il-20/22 aircraft, through the Il-38 Mays, Tu-134 transports , Tu-154Ms etc etc.

    There is a Tupolev design called Tu-330 that is a transport plane based on the Tu-204/214 that is in the 35 ton payload class that would sit nicely between the An-12 and old Il-76 in performance, but it was never built because the orcs saw it as a threat to the An-70, and the Tu-204 and Tu-214 were not in mass production so the commonality didn't matter so much.

    Well now the Tu-204 and Tu-214 are going to be produced for the airlines in very significant numbers it just makes sense to say... well the military did buy a few Tu-214s... how about making some more and looking at that transport again in a payload category that is going to be very empty soon as old Il-76s are upgraded or scrapped and the An-12s are getting very worn out and will be scrapped too soon.

    Some might argue that this is not relevant because these are civilian aircraft, but combining the investment for civilian and military products is part of the reason Russia gets such value for money...

    In the west the US Navy does not have the same fighters or SAMs as the Army or the airforce... even their F-35s are special versions... the F-4 showed it didn't have to be like that... and the ESSM is actually an ancient Sparrow missile the Air Force no longer uses.

    Even the 20mm vulcan is slightly different in the Phalanx.

    My life experience shows that when the state is determined to direct any action in any segment, that action will be taken. As much as it can be explained, there are no acceptable justifications. There was clearly strategic negligence. Civil aviation (aircraft and air traffic control systems) is an instrument of Western blackmail against the world. Russia should know this. Even because, incidents like the turbines of Siemiens that ended up in Crimea should have served as a yellow warning of how the West acts against those who are not aligned with its interests.
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    Post  Rodion_Romanovic Wed Sep 14, 2022 10:46 pm

    GarryB wrote:
    The funding by the government of civilian airliners is considered bad too... western companies get away with it by their militaries simply buying lots of Boeings and Airbuses when airlines don't buy so many... most military forces have an enormous range of roles modified civilian airine aircraft can do with a little modification... from VIP transport with almost no modification to ELINT and MPA and transport and inflight refuelling  and AWACS and plenty of other missions... all paying top dollar to Boeing and Airbus to keep their bottom lines nice and healthy even in difficult times.


    Not only that, actually Boeing and Airbus received massive help from the respective governments, including tax subsidies, help to airlines that bought their airplanes, and many others.

    https://www.forbes.com/sites/taxnotes/2020/11/20/boeings-tax-subsidies-if-youre-not-cheating-you-aint-trying/


    They do not like to play on a level field

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    Post  GarryB Thu Sep 15, 2022 6:23 am

    My life experience shows that when the state is determined to direct any action in any segment, that action will be taken. As much as it can be explained, there are no acceptable justifications. There was clearly strategic negligence. Civil aviation (aircraft and air traffic control systems) is an instrument of Western blackmail against the world.

    Agree with what you are saying but Russia is replacing everything, and civilian airliners can't be top priority when other aspects of aviation and the energy businesses and mining operations and other civilian fields that do bring in good money need to be addressed first.

    How does the Russian government justify funding the Tu-204SM at a time when there was no internal or external demand pushing for it to happen... other things needed funding too.

    You can guess what might happen but if you act accordingly you might end up making what you feared to actually happen.

    People complain that the Ukraine was too important to the Russian military... ships engines and propulsion systems, helicopter engines, transport planes etc etc... but if Russia had cut them off in the early 2000s then all this BS might have just happened 10 years ago... imagine the Russian military doing then what they are doing now?

    Two years after 8 8 8 in South Ossetia... it would have been vastly more costly.

    Would Russia have been able to feed itself?

    Russia should know this. Even because, incidents like the turbines of Siemiens that ended up in Crimea should have served as a yellow warning of how the West acts against those who are not aligned with its interests.

    Western bullshit is well known to everyone, but it was not that long ago when Russia expected to be partners with the west rather than enemies.

    They do not like to play on a level field

    Much of their spying involves finding details of rival companies offers for business deals so US companies don't have to over bid... and if you still can't win impose sanctions on the rival companies...

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    Post  caveat emptor Fri Sep 16, 2022 6:06 pm


    About future of Russian civil aviation. In Russian only.
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    Post  Rodion_Romanovic Tue Sep 20, 2022 12:19 pm

    Replying to Garry from a post in the naval industry thread.
    GarryB wrote:
    there is no incentive to rebuild Antonov for instance as that is only competition that no one wants.

    Russia does not need to "rebuild" Antonov and and Antonov is not dangerous competition.
    Russia just need the name and the IP. The infrastructure already exist in Russia.

    Antonov is an extremely important name for Russia and for the Soviet Union. It is Soviet and Russian legacy, not Ukrainian one.

    Antonov will be a part of UAC as it is Ilyushin, Yakovlev or Tupulev. They can put a new design bureau in Moscow (or in Ulyanovsk) for it and if needed or convenient cooperate with Ilyushin design bureau (and/or with new entities outside the UAC like the Ural Civil Aviation Plant, that build the Let-L410 and designed the Ladoga and Baikal aircraft)
    as well.
    If in Moscow they can possibly also re-employ the russian engineers working the Boeing Design Center

    https://www.boeing.com/features/innovation-quarterly/2021/03/boeing-design-center.page

    Boeing until march 2022 employed about 1000 engineers in Moscow and had a total of 1100 employees (I don't know ofhow many of them engineers) in Kiev.

    https://www.seattletimes.com/business/boeing-aerospace/boeing-suspends-moscow-engineering-center-and-halts-support-to-russian-airlines/


    In soviet union the plants were not owned by the design bureau, anyway.


    And when they release the new cargo planes models they can have some of them branded Ilyushin, some Antonov and maybe also some Tupulev (according to which design bureau made the lion's share of work).

    The new (Moscow or Ulyanovsk based) Antonov design bureau could also possibly work on a cargo plane of 10 to 12 tons of payload (as the Alenia C27J, about double the payload of the il-112), to be build in Moscow region or in Samara.

    Or they could also support the Ural Civil Aviation Plant to design and build a fully russian replacement of the let L-410.

    Even the Ladoga could be renamed as An-142 and the Baikal as An-4 (just an example).
    (E.g Airbus renamed the bombardier C-series into airbus A-220).

    As far as Antonov plants and infrastructure in Kiev and Kharkov, if (and only if) those regions will be integrated into Russia proper as well, they will also be included in the UAC umbrella (not as Antonov plants, but as Kiev Aircraft plant and Kharkov Aircraft plant).

    Later they can take part in aircraft repairs and in manufacturing of aircraft parts to be delivered to other russian plants. (As an example in the recent past Kharkov Aircraft plant cooperated closely with Aviakor in Samara). Finally if there will be the necessity for Russia those plants could also be used for final assembly of aircrafts (of course after properly modernising them).

    It is not like there will not be work for Russian aircraft plants now that they are not going to buy western planes anymore. There will be the opposite problem. Not being able to produce enough planes (especially if we add also the need of Bielorussia, Novorossia and Malorossia to those already planned)

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    Post  Rodion_Romanovic Wed Sep 21, 2022 9:26 am

    https://aviation21.ru/v-roselektronike-rasskazali-o-rabotax-dlya-aviaotrasli-v-usloviyax-izmenenij-2022-goda/

    Roselectronics told about work for the aviation industry in the context of changes in 2022
    21.09.2022

    Ruselectronics holding is a national electronics vendor and unites the largest concerns of the country's radio-electronic industry. The holding's enterprises develop and produce communication equipment for military and civil aircraft, as well as airfield equipment - radars, navigation systems, drive airfield radio stations, ground infrastructure monitoring systems with elements of artificial intelligence.

    About which areas in the context of a complete break in all types of cooperation with Western countries in the field of civil aviation and the cessation of supplies of components for SSJ100 and MS-21 aircraft are priority, told in the press service of the holding.

    Today, not only Ruselectronics, but the entire domestic industry is being rearranged, taking into account new realities and new tasks. The current situation is both a challenge and a window of opportunity - customers are looking for alternatives to foreign products and are reorienting themselves to the domestic market. For domestic producers, this is a chance to occupy niches that were previously occupied by foreigners.

    “Of course, we have to rebuild processes, establish new cooperation chains. But in the end, this whole process will make it possible to form a more stable industrial perimeter in terms of dependence on foreign software, equipment and components,” said a representative of the holding.

    Import substitution for SSJ-New, MS-21, Tu-214

    The Nizhny Novgorod enterprise NPP Polet participates in the import substitution of SSJ-New communication equipment. Short-range antenna sets have already been manufactured for two experimental liners and a set of intercom and warning equipment has been handed over to the customer to equip the integration stand at GosNIIAS. In 2022, Polyot Research and Production Enterprise will supply six MV-21 short-range radio stations for experimental aircraft. Developed software for data transmission in civil aviation networks for SSJ-New.

    For the MS-21, Poljot developed communication equipment - intercom equipment, short-range and long-range radio stations.

    In addition, by order of NPP Polet, the Penza enterprise NIIEMP developed electronic components for the on-board radio communication equipment SSJ and MS-21. The technical parameters of the new high-frequency vacuum circuit breakers make it possible to replace the products of the American manufacturers Jennings Technology and Kilovac.

    The Avtomatika concern at the Army-2022 forum for the first time presented a linesatellite communication antenna systems. Through domestic satellites in orbit, the equipment will allow passengers to use stable high-speed communications and multimedia services anywhere in Russia. The aviation antenna complex is designed for installation on passenger aircraft Superjet, Tu-214 and MS-21.

    Promising developments of Ruselectronics in the interests of aviation

    Polyot Research and Production Enterprise has created an on-board communication complex based on the integrated modular avionics technology (IMA BCS), which uses universal technical solutions, which makes it possible to install equipment on both military and civil aircraft.

    The St. Petersburg enterprise Research Institute "Vector" has developed a passive coherent locator (PCR) for covert detection and tracking of drones in protected areas. The device detects all moving objects that reflect radio waves, including small ones flying at extremely low altitudes. The locator can be used where the use of classical radar systems is difficult due to the risk of interference, for example, in the ornithological flight safety system for airports - Orni . It tracks the flight of up to 100 birds simultaneously at a distance of up to 21 km and has already successfully passed test operation at Pulkovo Airport.

    As part of the federal project for the development of regional airports, the Chelyabinsk radio plant "Polyot" supplies airfield surveillance radars . Radars AORL-1AS and AORL-1AM are already used at the airports of Abakan , Sevastopol , Chelyabinsk , Murmansk, Salekhard, Orsk, Batagay, Perm. The equipment operates in a polar climate at an air temperature of -50ºС, icing up to 20 mm and high wind speed, which made it possible to install a locator even at the Nadym airport of the Yamalo-Nenets Autonomous District.

    The Chelyabinsk Radio Plant Polet, with the support of the Administration of the Chelyabinsk Region and in cooperation with Moselectronproekt, will begin construction of a competence center in the Malaya Sosnovka industrial park by the end of 2022, which will develop new civilian products, including equipment for the modernization of airfields civil and experimental aviation.

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    Post  LMFS Thu Sep 22, 2022 10:54 am

    PJSC "UAC"
    Sergey Chemezov, Head of Rostec State Corporation, Yuri Slyusar, General Director of UAC, and Mikhail Degtyarev, Governor of the Khabarovsk Territory, visited the Irkut-Regional Aircraft production center in Komsomolsk-on-Amur, where SSJ-New import-substituted passenger aircraft are assembled. At the moment, the company is assembling 5 gliders for "Superjet" in a new configuration. Certification and the start of serial production of the aircraft are scheduled for the end of 2023.

    SSJ-NEW is a fully import-substituted version of the Superjet 100 aircraft, which will receive Russian PD-8 engines and about 40 domestic systems and components instead of foreign ones. The first prototype aircraft is in the final assembly shop, where systems and equipment are being installed, and another airframe has been transferred to the Central Aerohydrodynamic Institute for static testing. It is planned to complete flight tests and certify the import-substituted appearance of the Superjet by the end of 2023.

    "We must provide the passenger air transportation segment with comfortable modern domestic-made vessels instead of Boeing and Airbus. Western aircraft manufacturers have left our market, for them this is a one-way ticket. In 2023, the first flight of the SSJ-NEW with Russian PD-8 engines and the start of mass production is planned. The first aircraft will be delivered to Aeroflot Group airlines: we plan to deliver two aircraft in 2023, and in subsequent years — to enter the market with 20 airliners annually, " said Sergey Chemezov.

    "UAC faces the task of significantly increasing the production of aircraft. To do this, we are already rapidly retrofitting and preparing production, developing capacities for mass production, and hiring production workers. SSJ-NEW in-line production is organized on the territory of the production center. These measures will ensure the assembly of updated aircraft in the required quantity, " said Yuri Slyusar, General Director of PJSC UAC.

    "We have signed a social and economic partnership agreement with the UAC. This document is a two - way road: Rostec enterprises are increasing their activities, creating new jobs, increasing tax deductions, and the region is creating a comfortable environment for aircraft manufacturers and their families in Komsomolsk-on-Amur, as well as conditions for training qualified personnel. Our joint work contributes to solving problems in the field of import substitution and organizing large-scale production of passenger aircraft that the country needs, " commented Mikhail Degtyarev, Governor of the Khabarovsk Territory.

    Work on the SSJ-NEW is being carried out as part of a large-scale program to launch production of Russian civil aircraft of all classes. By 2030, domestic air carriers should receive more than 140 short-haul SSJ-NEW aircraft, about 270 medium-haul MS-21s, 70 short-haul Il-114-300s and medium-haul Tu-214s, as well as 12 long-haul Il-96-300s. All aircraft will be manufactured entirely from domestic components.

    The Superjet 100 has been manufactured in Komsomolsk-on-Amur since 2007. Currently, Russian airlines operate about 150 aircraft of this type. According to the results of the first half of 2022, the Superjet 100 flight time exceeded 100 thousand flight hours, which is 35% more than a year earlier. The average flight duration has increased by almost 20%, and the frequency of departures remains at the level of more than 98%. The total number of passengers transported by Superjet 100 aircraft has already exceeded 30 million.

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    Post  GarryB Thu Sep 22, 2022 1:39 pm

    Russia just need the name and the IP. The infrastructure already exist in Russia.

    Antonov is an extremely important name for Russia and for the Soviet Union. It is Soviet and Russian legacy, not Ukrainian one.

    Polikarpov was an extremely important name in Soviet fighter aircraft in the 1930s, the world didn't end when they stopped making planes.

    The factories in Russia that made Antonov transports can take designs from Tupolev and Ilyusion and build those instead... most of the critical Antonovs in Russian use are not brand new and due for replacement... An-2, An-12, the An-24/25/26, the An-22, the only aircraft worth keeping is the An-124 and it needs new engines.

    With the new replacement aircraft in the wings about to start production, including but not limited to the Baikal LMS-901, the L-410 and L-610 modifications, the Il-112 and Il-114, the Il-272, potentially the Tu-330 now that the Tu-204/214 are certain for production, the Il-106 and Slon.... there really is no space for Antonovs to continue... the Il-106 fits the gap below the An-124 and the Slon the gap above with both types using the PD-35 it means a PD-22 or PD-24 type engine for the An-124 is redundant except in the short term that it might continue to operate.

    I would say it would make more sense to temporarily fit PD-18s to the An-124s and reduce their weights and performance to An-22 levels until the PD-35s are ready for production for Il-106 and Slon types.
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    Post  Rodion_Romanovic Thu Sep 22, 2022 5:09 pm

    https://aviation21.ru/v-uzga-nachalis-stendovye-ispytaniya-dvigatelya-vk-800/

    Bench testing of the VK-800 engine began at UZGA

    22.09.2022

    The Ural Civil Aviation Plant has started bench testing of the gas generator of the VK-800 turboshaft engine, the UZGA press service reported.

    “At present, cold cranking and “hot” starts have been performed, during which the gas generator has been put into operation. Tests confirm the operability of the product and its units, the correctness of the chosen design solutions and the high convergence of the obtained data with the calculated ones.

    The VK-800S engine is designed for installation on Baikal light multi-purpose aircraft.

    Gas generator tests are carried out at the own bench base of the "Engines" division of "UZGA" JSC. A gas generator was mounted on the stand, as well as all systems providing testing: fuel, oil, hydraulic, 11 systems in total. The control of the gas generator from the first start was carried out using a digital automatic control unit.

    “The first stage of testing, which involves testing at various operating modes and load levels, is designed for one month. Subsequently, the gas generator will be disassembled to install additional sensors, which will allow obtaining detailed information about the operation parameters and the state of the units in real time,” the representative of the aircraft plant explained.

    The test program for the VK-800 engine also includes installation on specialized stands for isolated tests of the combustion chamber and engine compressor. To carry out these works, the bench base of the Central Institute of Aviation Motors named after A.I. P.I. Baranov.

    UZGA JSC expects to start bench testing of the experimental VK-800 engine by the end of 2022. Engine certification is scheduled for the end of 2024.

    Currently, a new production building for the Ural Civil Aviation Plant is being built at the Uktus site of the Titanium Valley near Yekaterinburg. The new workshops will assemble the turboprop regional aircraft TVRS-44 Ladoga and the light multipurpose aircraft LMS-901 Baikal. The corresponding contract was previously signed by the Ministry of Industry and Trade of the Russian Federation and UZGA JSC.

    Good news, of course it is at least another 2 years for the certification...

    Strangely the article only refers to the Baikal and does not mention that the engine will be also installed on the Let L-410, possibly because since the company has been sold they cannot produce it anymore in that form (and it will need a russian derivative as it was done for the L-610 into the TVRS-44 "Ladoga")

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    Post  GarryB Fri Sep 23, 2022 5:47 am

    They have made a mistake I think... the Ladoga is a 50 plus seat aircraft... there is no way it could operate with two 800-900hp engines.

    The Ladoga is supposed to get a decent helicopter like engine, something like the Klimov TV7-117ST-01 in the 2,400hp power range.

    This new engine they are talking about is definitely for the Baikal and the L-410 modification they are working on... both are much smaller than the l-610 which is more like the Il-114 level of engine.

    The gas turbine version of the VK-800 engine is also being developed and will be a valuable addition to the helicopter fleet as well with it being used in Ansat and Ka-226 types.

    I wonder if there is potential for the gas turbine version to be adapted for use in propeller driven aircraft where the gas turbine is not run under load and is essentially used as a generator that powers electric powered props that could be carried in numbers.

    Note the Ladoga is supposed to replace the An-24/25/26, as well as the Yak-40 and foreign types in that class.
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    Post  Rodion_Romanovic Fri Sep 23, 2022 10:48 am

    GarryB wrote:They have made a mistake I think... the Ladoga is a 50 plus seat aircraft... there is no way it could operate with two 800-900hp engines.

    The Ladoga is supposed to get a decent helicopter like engine, something like the Klimov TV7-117ST-01 in the 2,400hp power range.

    This new engine they are talking about is definitely for the Baikal and the L-410 modification they are working on... both are much smaller than the l-610 which is more like the Il-114 level of engine.

    The gas turbine version of the VK-800 engine is also being developed and will be a valuable addition to the helicopter fleet as well with it being used in Ansat and Ka-226 types.

    I wonder if there is potential for the gas turbine version to be adapted for use in propeller driven aircraft where the gas turbine is not run under load and is essentially used as a generator that powers electric powered props that could be carried in numbers.

    Note the Ladoga is supposed to replace the An-24/25/26, as well as the Yak-40 and foreign types in that class.

    No, in the article they only mentioned Ladoga because in Ural Civil Aviation Plant new infrastructure and buildings are being built for the assembly of both the Baikal and the Ladoga aircrafts.  Ladoga, as you mentioned, is supposed to be pushed by two slightly derated TV7-117 engines.

    The VK-800 was also supposed to go on the russianized Let L-410.

    As far as Ansat and Ka-226, apparently a turboshaft version of VK-800 will not be used, but Klimov is working on a new VK-650 turboshaft engine.

    Note: the "resurrection" of the Turboprop version of the VK-800 engine is mainly due to the work of the engine department of the Ural civil aviation plant, while Klimov apparently almost "abandoned" it.
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    Post  caveat emptor Fri Sep 23, 2022 6:20 pm

    GarryB wrote:They have made a mistake I think... the Ladoga is a 50 plus seat aircraft... there is no way it could operate with two 800-900hp engines.

    The Ladoga is supposed to get a decent helicopter like engine, something like the Klimov TV7-117ST-01 in the 2,400hp power range.

    This new engine they are talking about is definitely for the Baikal and the L-410 modification they are working on... both are much smaller than the l-610 which is more like the Il-114 level of engine.
    Ladoga will carry 44 passengers, hence the TVRS-44, as part of the name.
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    Post  GarryB Sat Sep 24, 2022 6:21 am

    My mistake... the article was about the VK-800 engine in the turboprop version for propeller driven engines, but when they mentioned the larger aircraft based on the L-610 I assumed this meant it would be using two of the engines the article is talking about... obviously they are no where near powerful enough for that job...

    Whatever the called the L-410 modification is the plane that will be using two of the engines the Baikal uses one of.

    Just seemed strange to build such different aircraft at the same plant... I would think there was more commonality with the Baikal LMS-901 and the upgraded and modified L-410 than the larger Lagoda TVRS-44.

    It seems the Mod L-410 will be used in the same roles as the An-2 along with the Baikal and apart from being a twin engine and a single engine plane they would have more in common than a single and the bigger TVRS-44.

    There just seems to be no consistency or logic with the names either...

    As far as Ansat and Ka-226, apparently a turboshaft version of VK-800 will not be used, but Klimov is working on a new VK-650 turboshaft engine.

    I would think the VK-800 engine would be ideal for the Ka-226 in the hot and high role for India but a less powerful turboshaft would improve costs for most other users I guess.


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