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    Russian Civil Aviation: News #4

    kvs
    kvs


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    Post  kvs Sat Nov 20, 2021 6:53 am

    Autodestruct wrote:Youtube promo video from Irkut Corp at Dubai.  It tours the Aurus business jet interior and then does the same for the MC-21-310.  You can see that the MC-21 only has a partial cabin installed and the back portion is used for testing.  It is interesting that they chose to bring this plane to Dubai when it is obviously still being used in the testing program.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sJ8JBOCS5Ik

    No point delaying its air show rounds over such a technicality. Giving it exposure is worth a lot because the foreign media will try to
    relegate it to obscurity.

    JohninMK
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    Post  JohninMK Sat Nov 20, 2021 8:49 am

    kvs wrote:
    Autodestruct wrote:Youtube promo video from Irkut Corp at Dubai.  It tours the Aurus business jet interior and then does the same for the MC-21-310.  You can see that the MC-21 only has a partial cabin installed and the back portion is used for testing.  It is interesting that they chose to bring this plane to Dubai when it is obviously still being used in the testing program.

    No point delaying its air show rounds over such a technicality.   Giving it exposure is worth a lot because the foreign media will try to
    relegate it to obscurity.

    Those business class seats certainly show off the width.
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    par far


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    Post  par far Sat Nov 20, 2021 9:26 am

    Airbus got 400+ orders, while Boeing got around 100 at the Dubai Air Show.

    How many will Russian aircraft get? Why does Russian Aircraft not get the orders?
    lancelot
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    Post  lancelot Sat Nov 20, 2021 3:03 pm

    par far wrote:Airbus got 400+ orders, while Boeing got around 100 at the Dubai Air Show.
    How many will Russian aircraft get? Why does Russian Aircraft not get the orders?

    There is more to an aircraft than just the price. You need support and for companies which don't use airplanes for a long time you need some sort of resale value.
    Then there is the possibility of sanctions. With regards to the MS-21 it isn't in service yet. The Superjet is competing against the likes of Embraer not Airbus or Boeing.
    It is an uphill battle but not impossible.

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    miketheterrible
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    Post  miketheterrible Sat Nov 20, 2021 3:11 pm

    lancelot wrote:
    par far wrote:Airbus got 400+ orders, while Boeing got around 100 at the Dubai Air Show.
    How many will Russian aircraft get? Why does Russian Aircraft not get the orders?

    There is more to an aircraft than just the price. You need support and for companies which don't use airplanes for a long time you need some sort of resale value.
    Then there is the possibility of sanctions. With regards to the MS-21 it isn't in service yet. The Superjet is competing against the likes of Embraer not Airbus or Boeing.
    It is an uphill battle but not impossible.

    Plus they are very young airplanes. As you said, logistics is important. Russia will eventually expand especially in other countries looking to get something cheaper and possibly localize logistics.
    Hole
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    Post  Hole Sat Nov 20, 2021 10:54 pm

    Much more important: the bribes being paid by Airbus/Boeing.

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    GarryB
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    Post  GarryB Sun Nov 21, 2021 11:49 am

    It is interesting that they chose to bring this plane to Dubai when it is obviously still being used in the testing program.

    By keeping the testing equipment there they save money and create less of an interruption to testing, yet get to show the aircraft to potential customers.

    If they don't get customers then they are wasting their time.
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    rigoletto


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    Post  rigoletto Tue Nov 23, 2021 1:04 pm

    miketheterrible wrote:Plus they are very young airplanes. As you said, logistics is important.  Russia will eventually expand especially in other countries looking to get something cheaper and possibly localize logistics.

    Hello, new in here.

    IIRC UAC/Irkut reached some kind of early agreement with ST Engineering in relation to MS-21 maintenance some years ago, I think they will later send one to them to be deeply studied for maintenance purposes.

    ST Eng is one of the most respected service providers in this field worldwide, and Singapore is also quite important MRO HUB therefore. If it work as expected, the Asian market (specially SEA) would open quite easier to MS-21.

    [EDIT] Once ST Eng manage to master the MS-21 maintenance (without any bad surprises) it would be easier to convince SIA[1] (Singapore Air Lines) to buy them. If the "Best Airline in the World" adopt the MS-21 it will hard to tell nonsense/crap about it.

    Side interesting fact, the Singapore Prime Minister Lee Hsien Loong (son of the legendary Lee Kuan Yew) is not just fluent in Russian but also graduated/undergraduated in Russia. His father "knew" Russia would arise again and considered quite important (read fundamental) to Singapore to have a good understanding of it.

    [1] both have the same owner, the Singapore State.

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    miketheterrible
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    Post  miketheterrible Tue Nov 23, 2021 3:55 pm

    rigoletto wrote:
    miketheterrible wrote:Plus they are very young airplanes. As you said, logistics is important.  Russia will eventually expand especially in other countries looking to get something cheaper and possibly localize logistics.

    Hello, new in here.

    IIRC UAC/Irkut reached some kind of early agreement with ST Engineering in relation to MS-21 maintenance some years ago, I think they will later send one to them to be deeply studied for maintenance purposes.

    ST Eng is one of the most respected service providers in this field worldwide, and Singapore is also quite important MRO HUB therefore. If it work as expected, the Asian market (specially SEA) would open quite easier to MS-21.

    [EDIT] Once ST Eng manage to master the MS-21 maintenance (without any bad surprises) it would be easier to convince SIA[1] (Singapore Air Lines) to buy them. If the "Best Airline in the World" adopt the MS-21 it will hard to tell nonsense/crap about it.

    Side interesting fact, the Singapore Prime Minister Lee Hsien Loong (son of the legendary Lee Kuan Yew) is not just fluent in Russian but also graduated/undergraduated in Russia. His father "knew" Russia would arise again and considered quite important (read fundamental) to Singapore to have a good understanding of it.

    [1] both have the same owner, the Singapore State.

    Welcome to the forums. Don't forget to introduce yourself in this thread:

    https://www.russiadefence.net/f6-member-introductions-and-rules

    Thanks for the info, I had no idea that Singapore had even any resemblance of relations with the Russian federation.

    This I'll have to keep an eye on. Any more info would be highly appreciated.

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    Post  rigoletto Tue Nov 23, 2021 6:16 pm

    Unfortunately I don't have a lot of more relevant information, these are things I got on the wild some time ago, and can be found on the internet if you look carefully.

    The only extra I could add about to Russia-Singapore relations:

    1- a few years ago Singapore donated a reasonable sized land plot for Russia to construct a "Russian Cultural Center".[1]
    As far I'm aware there is nothing in there yet, except the rock with the plate;

    2- there are some "reports" the Project 03160 ‘Raptor’ was designed in cooperation with a Singaporean company. No more info about it, and not sure about the veracity, but ST Eng have some sweet 70kn interceptors (Super Swift 18);

    [EDIT] 3- there where some talks about Russia-Singapore cooperation in "Smart Cities" technology,. No idea if it is actually happening;

    [EDIT] 4- Singapore have been investing in Russia together with the RDIF. You can find information about it in the RDIF website (just search "Singapore").

    Btw, Singapore is a far more interesting country than what it looks on the surface. In case of being interested the best start point to understand Singapore is the book: "From Third World to First: The Singapore Story - 1965-2000" - Lee Kuan Yew.[2]

    Also, there are some Singapore laws Russia could have a close look, like about NGOs. Basically, anyone can freely establish a NGO in there, but it will have no fiscal benefits[3] unless they formally convince the government the object of the NGO will benefit Singapore as a whole, and not certain specific groups.

    Also, I head about some migrant issues in Russia. In SG people coming to work on "certain" jobs have to get a specific visa, and have tons of restrictions, including personal. For starters, they can just be from specific countries, like India and others they have historical relations[4]. Maids (IDK a lot of details about others) cannot marry in Singapore unless they leave the country for two years; got pregnant, no talk -> expelled; acquire Singapore nationality? NO.


    [1] I could find the exactly coordinates of it with some patience but I need some sleep now.
    [2] can be easily found on the internet...
    [3] just the founder can pull in money tax free.
    [4] the salaries are also based on the origin, it should be more than what they earn at home but (not necessarily) on pair with the regular Singaporean ones. The employer provide the all basics, shelter and food (usually in large and properly organized sheds with several bunks etc. maids live where they work). The idea is to provide proven better conditions than what they have in home while being as cheap as possible to the Singaporean company.
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    Autodestruct


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    Post  Autodestruct Wed Nov 24, 2021 9:09 am

    [quote="GarryB"]
    If they don't get customers then they are wasting their time.

    That depends. As Lancelot discussed, MRO and creating a resale value is critical. One of the big thorns in the Superjet has been that SCAC signed up a host of users (scattered across the globe) with weak financials (Armavia, Interjet, etc.) which either quickly went bankrupt or did not have the money for any appreciable service and support. And, when you are in that situation, then you don't have a clear picture of where to invest in MRO infrastructure. And then poorly maintained aircraft have no resale value.

    If Irkut can get a flagship carrier to order the MC-21 then great. Otherwise, stick with a Russian launch for the first few years. They can build up their MRO capability there and then expand outwards. It's not like production numbers are going to be that great the first few years anyways.

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    Autodestruct


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    Post  Autodestruct Wed Nov 24, 2021 10:50 am

    Aerocomposite has begun work on the CR929 aircraft's wing. They also say that they are running at near 100% capacity. So it might take them a while to boost the yearly production numbers of the MC-21.

    https://aviation21.ru/v-ulyanovske-nachalos-izgotovlenie-iz-pkm-prototipov-kryla-dlya-shfdms-cr929/

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    GarryB
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    Post  GarryB Wed Nov 24, 2021 7:12 pm

    Sounds like they need to expand... their services are only going to become more in demand...
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    Post  Kiko Yesterday at 2:09 am

    Preparations have begun for the first flight of the MC-21 aircraft with a wing made from Russian PKM, 30/11/2021.

    The Irkutsk aircraft plant has completed the construction of the first MC-21 aircraft, the wing of which is made of Russian-made polymer composite materials. November 29, 2021the plane is transferredfrom the IAP final assembly shop to the flight test unit. This was reported by the press service of the United Aircraft Corporation.

    "The specialists of the plant and allied enterprises will carry out a program of ground checks of the aircraft and its systems and prepare the aircraft for the first flight," added the UAC representative.

    The share of composites in the MS-21 structure is about 40%. Domestic materials for power composite structures were developed with the participation of scientists from Moscow State University and Rosatom enterprises. The wing consoles and center section of the MC-21 aircraft are manufactured at the AeroComposite-Ulyanovsk enterprise. In the production of the wing, the technology of vacuum infusion is used, which is patented in Russia.

    On November 22, in Yelabuga, General Director of AeroComposite JSC, Deputy General Director of Irkut Corporation Anatoly Gaidansky announced that the first MC-21 aircraft, built using entirely Russian composite materials, will take off in December 2021. According to him, by the end of the first quarter of 2022 it is planned "to receive a major change to it, which will allow the use of Russian materials."

    The delivery of the first copies of the MC-21 for the Rossiya airline is scheduled for the third quarter of 2022. The aircraft will be equipped with Pratt & Whitney engines and a Russian composite wing.

    "The Rossiya Airlines will use cars with completely Russian composite materials," Gaidansky assured.

    https://aviation21.ru/nachata-podgotovka-k-pervomu-polyotu-samolyota-ms-21-s-krylom-iz-rossijskix-pkm/

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    Post  owais.usmani Today at 2:19 am

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