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    Project 22350: Admiral Sergei Gorshkov #2

    SeigSoloyvov
    SeigSoloyvov

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    Post  SeigSoloyvov Thu Jul 15, 2021 8:59 pm

    Dima wrote:^ shows how underutilized it was...

    Um no just because it looks like there is space doesn't mean there is.

    etc just because you think they can strap on more weapons doesn't mean they can.

    I am sure they used all the space they could, you are aware a ship needs room for things other than VLS right....

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    Big_Gazza
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    Post  Big_Gazza Fri Jul 16, 2021 12:36 am

    SeigSoloyvov wrote:Um no just because it looks like there is space doesn't mean there is.

    etc just because you think they can strap on more weapons doesn't mean they can.

    I am sure they used all the space they could, you are aware a ship needs room for things other than VLS right....

    Yup. I swear sometimes that people think that a warship is nothing but a big long pointy metal box of weapons with an engine in the middle. Do these critics really beleive that experienced naval architects are all censored ing idiots, and that amateurs in armchairs know better then the professionals? No

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    GarryB
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    Post  GarryB Fri Jul 16, 2021 8:36 am

    Hahahaha.... that reminds me of a video programme following police on major motorways and their experiences... there was one episode where this stationwagon that was totally full... every seat and the rear area of the vehicle packed with bags and shit, there were bikes strapped on the back and there were canoes strapped on the top and the bonnet of the car was open about 50cm at the front held down by rope and struts so the driver could barely see forward... and smoke was coming out.

    Anyway the cop pulls him over... he is the only one in the car, and he directs him to turn his engine off and open the bonnet, which he does.

    This guy has all sorts of blankets and bags of food and beer bottles poked into every free available space around the engine and of course many things are on fire.

    The guy didn't understand that just putting stuff anywhere and everywhere is not a smart thing to do... the cop sat in the drivers seat and simply said this car is not drivable you have to take everything out, because you could not see out of any window except the drivers side window and out the front...
    Dima
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    Post  Dima Fri Jul 16, 2021 5:47 pm

    SeigSoloyvov wrote:Um no just because it looks like there is space doesn't mean there is.

    etc just because you think they can strap on more weapons doesn't mean they can.

    I am sure they used all the space they could, you are aware a ship needs room for things other than VLS right....
    I'll give an example of 11356. Both 11356 and 22350 are designed by SDB.

    There was a model showcased before Indian Navy's 2nd batch of 11356 deal got signed. That model was installed with 32-36 x Shtil VLS. But the politics and lobbies inside the Indian Navy & establishment didn't pick the Russian VL system and that model went out of focus. Years later when Russian order for 11356 came, it came with just 24.

    And lastly, a designer or a design which fails to accomodate increase in scope and is tight packed from the design stage itself is awful.
    Dima
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    Post  Dima Fri Jul 16, 2021 5:51 pm

    Big_Gazza wrote:Yup.  I swear sometimes that people think that a warship is nothing but a big long pointy metal box of weapons with an engine in the middle.  Do these critics really beleive that experienced naval architects are all censored ing idiots, and that amateurs in armchairs know better then the professionals? No
    Even the professionals comes up with stupid and tedious stuff like a shipping container based launch units on combat ships and awful designs which ends up in one or two units.
    GarryB
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    Post  GarryB Sat Jul 17, 2021 7:25 am

    Even the professionals comes up with stupid and tedious stuff like a shipping container based launch units on combat ships and awful designs which ends up in one or two units.

    I disagree... there is enormous potential for all sorts of modular systems and equipment including drones for air, sea and underwater use, for missiles for air defence, for attack, and for a range of other uses that could be placed on the deck... for a long range deployment they could simply put fuel bladders in those containers and operate at much higher speeds than their enemy expects because they can run faster and burn more fuel.

    They offer the potential for flexibility and alternative choices... many of the roles of helicopters could be replaced with small compact helicopter drones, which means it could retain the use of a helicopter drone with the added use of whatever they have in those other containers... I think it is a very clever and innovative idea that will worry enemy forces because they will have no idea what is in each of those containers, and any large support ships that operate with these vessels will be able to swap containers as needed changing its loadout in minutes for different tasks and roles mid ocean.

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    SeigSoloyvov
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    Post  SeigSoloyvov Sat Jul 17, 2021 8:31 am

    Dima wrote:
    Big_Gazza wrote:Yup.  I swear sometimes that people think that a warship is nothing but a big long pointy metal box of weapons with an engine in the middle.  Do these critics really beleive that experienced naval architects are all censored ing idiots, and that amateurs in armchairs know better then the professionals? No
    Even the professionals comes up with stupid and tedious stuff like a shipping container based launch units on combat ships and awful designs which ends up in one or two units.

    There was no more room inside the ship so they had to use containers, you do realize MODELS are just that Models that have never went through a design phase right?. Just some guys put it together to try and interest the MOD for funding.

    The container while not ideal was an ingenious method of turning the patrol ship into a nice multi-functional vessel and providing the ability to mount arms it otherwise wouldn't be able to BECAUSE THE HULL WAS FILLED.

    Project 22160 is a good ship for what it's DESIGNED for which is a patrol vessel, and I have praised the Russians many times on the 22160 and will do so more if it comes up.


    Last edited by SeigSoloyvov on Sat Jul 17, 2021 8:41 am; edited 1 time in total
    SeigSoloyvov
    SeigSoloyvov

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    Post  SeigSoloyvov Sat Jul 17, 2021 8:38 am

    Dima wrote:
    SeigSoloyvov wrote:Um no just because it looks like there is space doesn't mean there is.

    etc just because you think they can strap on more weapons doesn't mean they can.

    I am sure they used all the space they could, you are aware a ship needs room for things other than VLS right....
    I'll give an example of 11356. Both 11356 and 22350 are designed by SDB.

    There was a model showcased before Indian Navy's 2nd batch of 11356 deal got signed. That model was installed with 32-36 x Shtil VLS. But the politics and lobbies inside the Indian Navy & establishment didn't pick the Russian VL system and that model went out of focus. Years later when Russian order for 11356 came, it came with just 24.

    And lastly, a designer or a design which fails to accomodate increase in scope and is tight packed from the design stage itself is awful.

    A model that is your grand argument

    You do realize the models companies produce haven't had a cent spent on them in terms of actual design work or finding right?. When you see a model there aren't any blueprints of technical data for it or anything on paper.

    It's only when the MOD shows interest and supplies money actual work starts to get done, the fact you are bringing up models as an example of "they are wasting space because this plastic model says so" is just stupid like really dam stupid.

    Btw the Indian 11356 has 24 Shtil, not 32-34, so your models lied to you and you revealed you don't know a god dam thing about ship construction.

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