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    Project 22350: Admiral Sergei Gorshkov #2

    Mir
    Mir


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    Post  Mir Tue Sep 07, 2021 7:33 pm

    littlerabbit wrote:

    Which fleet will get Admiral Isakov, BSF? dunno

    I think initially they will all go to either the Northern or Pacific Fleet.

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    lancelot
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    Post  lancelot Sun Sep 12, 2021 8:56 am

    kvs wrote:
    limb wrote:
    kvs wrote:
    GarryB wrote:That is OK... the Russians are making them better... perhaps they can undercut the Ukrainians and sell them to China too.
    At the very least the Ukrainians will get less money for the engines they sells and in the best case they lose that business too... or they end up making them at a loss and collapse that industry too.
    Nothing personal... just business.

    Banderites are begging to lose the China market.   What they pulled with Motor Sich has ticked off China in a major way.

    How do you know?

    Type 52d and type 56  engines are still being ordered exclusively from motor sich with no sign of stopping.
    Prove it with citations.
    https://chinaobservers.eu/why-ukraine-is-reassessing-its-defense-cooperation-with-china/
    "Critical technology being laundered to Russia" via China.
    Fcuking hilarious drivel.   Absolutely zero Ukr "technology" is of interest to Russia.

    Type 052D and 055 engines are QC280 engines manufactured in China. Supposedly based on Ukrainian UGT-25000 gas turbine engine design but all manufactured in China.
    The Chinese have moved to their own naval engine production a long time ago.
    The Type 056 corvettes don't even use gas turbines. They use marine diesels licensed from SEMT Pielstick.

    Where the Chinese might be losing out with closed access to the Ukrainian market is with regards to helicopter engines and trainer aircraft engines.
    Not naval engines.

    The Chinese are presently massively expanding their helicopter fleet but most of this is supposed to use their own "home grown" engines. The limited amount of helicopters of Soviet make they have, mostly for the Tibetan plateau and other high altitude environments, can likely be serviced elsewhere. But it will sure be annoying to them.
    The-thing-next-door
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    Post  The-thing-next-door Sun Sep 12, 2021 1:49 pm

    Hole wrote:Project 22350: Admiral Sergei Gorshkov #2 - Page 37 22350_14
    Project 22350: Admiral Sergei Gorshkov #2 - Page 37 22350_15
    Project 22350: Admiral Sergei Gorshkov #2 - Page 37 22350_16

    Why does the metal of the casings appear warped?
    Hole
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    Post  Hole Sun Sep 12, 2021 8:10 pm

    Because it´s a warp drive. Laughing Laughing Laughing

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    lyle6
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    Post  lyle6 Sun Sep 12, 2021 9:49 pm

    The-thing-next-door wrote:
    Why does the metal of the casings appear warped?
    Shrinkage due to cold temps. It'll be fine once the warship sees a beautiful woman though. Razz
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    hoom


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    Post  hoom Mon Sep 13, 2021 3:27 am

    The-thing-next-door wrote:Why does the metal of the casings appear warped?
    Thats just thin cover plates, possibly/probably hand-made.
    The structural bits are thicker & fair eg where the bits on the side are attached is a proper flat surface.
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    ult


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    Post  ult Tue Dec 28, 2021 5:05 pm

    In a new video from Amur shipyard, they talk about potentially signing a contract for "up to 6 frigates" sometime next year, but in order to get it they need to modernize their facilities.

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    Post  owais.usmani Mon Jan 03, 2022 12:59 pm

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    Mir
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    Post  Mir Mon Jan 03, 2022 1:13 pm

    Russia is now rapidly moving towards establishing parallel shipbuilding for the Pacific fleet - long overdue - but great news indeed!
    They now need to re-establish nuclear sub production as well as diesel subs back to where it belongs.

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    PapaDragon
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    Post  PapaDragon Mon Jan 03, 2022 2:50 pm

    owais.usmani wrote:

    I want this to happen so bad it's boner inducing...


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    Isos
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    Post  Isos Mon Jan 03, 2022 9:35 pm

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    Project 22350: Admiral Sergei Gorshkov #2 - Page 37 Empty Amur Shipyard

    Post  calripson Mon Jan 03, 2022 10:03 pm

    Amur shipyard 15 years ago was almost a write-off. To get them back on their feet is very impressive. Very good source of jobs for the region.

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    JohninMK
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    Post  JohninMK Mon Jan 03, 2022 11:19 pm

    calripson wrote:Amur shipyard 15 years ago was almost a write-off. To get them back on their feet is very impressive. Very good source of jobs for the region.

    A lot of Dutch HGG 3D profiling gear now in that factory.
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    Post  hoom Mon Jan 03, 2022 11:20 pm

    Can a 22350 size ship actually get down-river from Amur?
    They barge-ship the 20380s down-river & I don't think a 22350 would fit in that thing.

    Don't get me wrong though I'm all for things that would improve the rate of production like multi-yard construction.
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    Post  LMFS Mon Jan 03, 2022 11:22 pm

    So we may say that:

    > the orders for Amur shipyard on top of the ones for Severnaya total 16 units, or at least 8 per oceanic fleet. Maybe even more come in the future, but those are numbers already in line with the expected amount of at least 18 units for the class. It is not clear to me that other fleets need such ships
    > apparently, the 22350M will not mean the end of the 22350, but just a further vessel type with probably greater range and more capable for the blue water missions the VMF wants to be ready to tackle in the future.

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    Post  Mir Tue Jan 04, 2022 7:39 am

    hoom wrote:Can a 22350 size ship actually get down-river from Amur?
    They barge-ship the 20380s down-river & I don't think a 22350 would fit in that thing.

    Don't get me wrong though I'm all for things that would improve the rate of production like multi-yard construction.

    I have no idea how deep or shallow the river is but they had no problem with the much larger nuclear submarines.

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    Post  Krepost Tue Jan 04, 2022 8:53 pm

    There is no contract signed.
    So, don't get too excited about building frigates at Amur Shipyard yet.
    I could be just a way to pressure Severnaya Werf to get its act together.
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    Post  Arrow Tue Jan 04, 2022 10:52 pm

    Severnaya Werf will be building destroyers 22350M in the future, so if they want to continue the 22350 frigate program, they can move it to the Amur Shipyard. They built bigger units there, so it won't be a problem.

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    Post  lancelot Wed Jan 05, 2022 2:33 am

    Once the icebreaker construction ends and the new facilities are operational they will have more than enough room to build the 22350M in St. Petersburg I think.
    They should have enough capacity to build both 22350 and 22350M.
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    Post  PapaDragon Wed Jan 05, 2022 4:00 am

    Krepost wrote:There is no contract signed.
    So, don't get too excited about building frigates at Amur Shipyard yet.
    I could be just a way to pressure Severnaya Werf to get its act together.

    Why bother with trying to pressure incompetent shipyard to get it's act together when you can just take contracts from them and give them to a shipyard with increasingly impressive track record?

    Or should we wait for some long delayed Gorshkov frigate to get torched as well?

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    Post  Arrow Wed Jan 05, 2022 4:29 am

    Exactly. In addition, splitting the construction of frigates into two shipyards will speed up the construction of these units. They will give new contracts to another shipyard.
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    Post  Krepost Wed Jan 05, 2022 4:33 am

    PapaDragon wrote:
    Krepost wrote:There is no contract signed.
    So, don't get too excited about building frigates at Amur Shipyard yet.
    I could be just a way to pressure Severnaya Werf to get its act together.

    Why bother with trying to pressure incompetent shipyard to get it's act together when you can just take contracts from them and give them to a shipyard with increasingly impressive track record?

    Or should we wait for some long delayed Gorshkov frigate to get torched as well?


    Not that simple.
    Amur shipyard can not build frigate sized vessels with its current infrastructure.
    Large investment are needed to make it happen.
    I hope they do it. I would like to see frigate contracts signed and/or infrastructure investment contracts signed.
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    Post  lancelot Wed Jan 05, 2022 4:50 am

    Is this true? The Project 22350 frigates do not seem to be significantly larger than a Project 971 submarine.

    I got this from the Amur Shipyard website:
    - slipway complex, consisting of closed heated slipways, including 9 dry construction docks, allowing to assemble hulls of vessels up to 200m long and up to 19m wide.

    - In 2006, an open slipway was designed and put into operation, which allows the formation of hulls of vessels up to 23 m wide.

    These are the stats for the Project 22350 frigate:
    Standard Displacement: 4,550 tons
    Length: 135 m
    Beam: 16 m
    Draught: 4.5 m

    These are the stats for the Project 971 submarine:
    Surfaced Displacement: 8,140 tons
    Length: 110.3 m
    Beam: 13.6 m
    Draught: 9.7 m
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    Post  Krepost Wed Jan 05, 2022 5:31 am

    Modernization of the plant's capabilities is required.
    General Director of Amur SZ has mentioned in the past that it is necessary to modernize the internal slipways where a series of corvettes (pr. 30380 and pr. 20385) are now being assembled.
    And then, there is the issue of the sorry state of the dock that is needed to take vessels from the slipways, move it along the Amur river and then lower it into the water. Money has been allocated for the dock recently, but nothing has been done yet.

    Furthermore, there are also rumors that frigate and/or corvette production may also be given to Yantar SZ in Kaliningrad.
    I say again: let's wait for contracts to be signed or at least a confirmation from an official source.
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    Post  ALAMO Wed Jan 05, 2022 9:02 am

    This kind of "modernization" means retooling, in most cases.
    For example, a crane can be capable to lift a 120t structure, while the building technology requires a 150t element.
    Or it can position the element with 7cm accuracy, while 2cm is needed.
    So you need a new crane or cranes ...
    If you are to make a ship with a composite structure, you need less welding/steel processing and additional composite handling. So you need to add some yacht shipyard division along with the existing one.
    Sometimes you need to train the crew for some new processes or technology, like more SS steel replacing black one ...
    A drydock is something you just need to order, with the proper size&lift. Not a big deal, in most shipyards they can construct the drydock by their own means.

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