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    European gas imports

    GarryB
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    Post  GarryB Fri Jan 14, 2022 6:57 am

    It was Putin that instructed them to pump gas through the Ukraine that they didn't have to. It cost them more money, but helped out the Ukraine a little.

    As such I rather suspect the guy running Gazprom knows exactly what he was doing otherwise there would be no need for interference from the biggest shareholder... (Russian government).

    The Europeans can bullshit all they please... when the gas is running out and storage is empty, they are either going to have to buy at spot rates and whatever the price is at the time... which is going to be very very expensive, or they can say they want to negotiate long term contracts so spot rates don't apply and they can ask for much much cheaper gas options over periods of 10-15 years.

    Not much else they can do except get coal back on line which would screw all their green dreams and make Russian coal exports more profitable.

    The sooner they build extra pipes to China the better... put that gas to good use powering Chinese factories and homes etc etc... I am sure cheap steady energy is just what they want right now and the EU is fighting to push itself from that all you can eat buffet table.

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    miketheterrible
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    Post  miketheterrible Fri Jan 14, 2022 7:23 am

    Russia has bailed out their enemy so many times in recent history and what they get? Colored revolutions all around them and attempts in their own country.

    Any real leader would have put a stop to it.

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    kvs
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    Post  kvs Fri Jan 14, 2022 10:07 am

    miketheterrible wrote:Russia has bailed out their enemy so many times in recent history and what they get? Colored revolutions all around them and attempts in their own country.

    Any real leader would have put a stop to it.

    I have the same visceral reaction but then I step back and recognize that Russia is not powerful enough to throw its weight
    around. It has to dance with its enemies but now this is changing. I think the current spot market crisis is Gazprom pushing
    a hard line. It did not resist in 2020 when the retards basically gave it an ultimatum, but now these retards are living the
    consequences of their retardation. This looks a lot like following Sun Tzu in playing a longer game and letting your enemy
    screw themselves up. If Russia does the bitch slapping, then it gets all the hate. But letting the retards trip themselves
    puts some of the heat elsewhere.

    What we are seeing is these retards trying to shift the blame onto Gazprom.

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    ALAMO


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    Post  ALAMO Fri Jan 14, 2022 10:19 am

    Part of the issue guys is, that this problem will evaporate soon, to be back in a year only.

    Winter is claimed to be over in Europe, I have a 9degC now.
    My gas bill came just the same as it was a year ago because the new tariffs will appear for the next one only.
    As the system is the same all over the EU, I guess works quite similarly everywhere.
    So the politicians won't feel the social pressure in reality, leading to no changes in the presented stupidity level whatsoever.
    The problem is pushed ahead in time, now they have more space to bend.
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    Post  LMFS Fri Jan 14, 2022 10:38 am

    Read what the head of Moldovagaz has to say Rolling Eyes

    Moldova’s gas problems due to habit of incurring gas debt - Moldovagaz
    CEO of the Moldovan gas distribution company Vadim Ceban said the government should make settlements with Gazprom

    CHISINAU, January 14. /TASS/. Current gas supply problems of Moldova relatively to Russian gas holding Gazprom are due to the long-standing habit of incurring gas debts, CEO of the Moldovan gas distribution company Moldovagaz Vadim Ceban said in an interview with the TV-21 television channel.

    "We got used to receiving gas with deferred payment, with incurred debt. It does not and will not work this way anymore on the gas market. We need to understand this," Ceban said.

    "One should not look for a political component. A beneficial contract was made and debt restructuring was discussed with us. Nobody acts this way. Debts are claimed for repayment at first and a new contract is signed later,"
    the top manager said.

    "Let’s understand the gas market is liberalized. We have 24 traders that can buy gas at hubs in any countries. Why they do not do so? It means we made the beneficial contract," Ceban noted.

    The government of Moldova should resolve systemic problems preventing Moldovagaz from timely receipt of money for gas supplied to end users and make settlements with Gazprom, he added.

    https://tass.com/economy/1387945

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    kvs
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    Post  kvs Fri Jan 14, 2022 4:50 pm

    But he is not the one making the decisions. It is Soros whore Sandu and her NATzO bootlicks in the regime.
    Not NATzO and NATzO aligned leadership acts in the best interests of their country.

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    Post  ALAMO Fri Jan 14, 2022 5:36 pm

    The situation is like just from another world.
    Some countries are surprised, that they need to pay the bills Laughing

    But to be honest, it is clear proof how things have changed in the last 20 years for this market and business.

    20 years ago, Gazprom had no alternatives other than pumping the gas&oil via Ukraine and Poland to Europe.

    No matter how much of it would have been stolen in the Ukr, there was no option to it. Just pump&cry, because if you won't - you are cutting yourself an important budget income part.

    But not now.

    Now, they have totally another position, that will improve further with the PoS2.

    And some folks didn't get the message yet. Laughing

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    Arkanghelsk
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    Post  Arkanghelsk Fri Jan 14, 2022 6:05 pm

    Why is everyone throwing a hissy fit over this? This is a nothing burger
    GarryB
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    Post  GarryB Sat Jan 15, 2022 5:16 am

    Any real leader would have put a stop to it.

    How would he be doing that?

    It has to dance with its enemies but now this is changing.

    Not only that, but their enemies in this case is the entire western world, which in the form of the US has the money and proclivity to mindless violence and cruelty to do serious damage the entire countries... entire regions... just for not being hostile to you...

    If the stupid censored of the Ukraine and the Baltic States and even Finland and Sweden want to give up their sovereignty to be Americas newest bitch what exactly should Putin do to stop them... if the people in those countries can't stop them... how can Putin?

    And a better question would be why would Putin?

    Honestly what they are doing now is making the west choose... either respect Russia and respect Russian interests or they are going to ignore you and look to the rest of the world for their future growth and development... the west can continue what it is doing, because without Russian energy it is going to get very cold very quickly in Europe, but the rest of the world will probably like cheap shipped gas from Russia... they make a good profit even when the price is quite low so the countries they offer it to wont be countries that treat them like shit and stab them in the back as soon as they can... and once they are buying Russian gas what do they have that Russia can buy and what else would they like to trade...

    If Russia does the bitch slapping, then it gets all the hate. But letting the retards trip themselves
    puts some of the heat elsewhere.

    There are lots of other countries out there looking for someone to trade with that wont screw them at every opportunity like western companies do... why bitchslap ass holes to make them act with respect, when there are lots of countries out there who would love to increase mutual trade with Russia.

    What we are seeing is these retards trying to shift the blame onto Gazprom.

    Seems everyone wants to blame Russia and Putin... even Mike.

    Part of the issue guys is, that this problem will evaporate soon, to be back in a year only.

    Winter is claimed to be over in Europe, I have a 9degC now.
    My gas bill came just the same as it was a year ago because the new tariffs will appear for the next one only.
    As the system is the same all over the EU, I guess works quite similarly everywhere.

    Except the difference is that Putin has put in Russias red lines and HATOs response was to say Sweden and Finland can join any time they please... if either one does do you think relations will stay the same?

    Do you think it will remain business as usual?

    So the politicians won't feel the social pressure in reality, leading to no changes in the presented stupidity level whatsoever.
    The problem is pushed ahead in time, now they have more space to bend.

    But it is not a bend that is required... they need Washingtons hand surgically removed from their butthole and all the strings that move their arms and mouth need to be cut... otherwise Russia knows there is no point in talking to HATO or the EU... just talking to Washington makes sense and they want the gas price to go up in Europe... it makes their freedom gas seem less expensive than it is and makes its price closer to any other shipped gas you can get.

    Some countries are surprised, that they need to pay the bills

    More insidious than that... they thought they could get by on stored gas when the price went up and then when it plummeted because no one was buying they could pick it up at $40 per Kcubemetre to refill their storage tanks for next winter.

    But being so tight and so cheap and so duplicitious even ten times this price would be a bargain compared to what they will actually pay...

    They tried to screw the Russians and got screwed by their own decisions.

    Now, they have totally another position, that will improve further with the PoS2.

    I am sure they are finding the Chinese much more reliable partners to do business with... and I think when the west is just the west again and pushes Russias buttons by further expanding HATO that Russian businessmen are going to find a wide variety of potential partner around the world... from bastards to the best partner they could hope for and they will all be better than the Europeans and Americans.

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    kvs
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    Post  kvs Sat Jan 15, 2022 3:47 pm



    lol1

    Gazprom is taking Poland (PGNiG) to the Stockholm arbitration court to get a retroactive increase in gas prices.
    It is using exactly the same argument used by Poland which this kangaroo court agreed with and forced
    Gazprom to "pay back" 1.5 billion US dollars.

    Even if the kangaroo court contradicts itself it will be a win for Gazprom since it will have a clear pretext for
    severing any links to this clown outfit. That means force maejure changes in all of Gazprom's contracts to
    designate another arbitration venue.

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    ATLASCUB
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    Post  ATLASCUB Sat Jan 15, 2022 7:15 pm

    Russia has an infinite number of pretexts to cut off all the stooges from Gas.

    Putin makes the calls, and he clearly hasn't taken on any. The Americans don't need any pretext to act and defend their interests - they create the pretext if needed....manufacturing them out of thin air. That's why one power has this predicament while the other exports LNG to premium markers in Asia without a fucking care in the world of what happens at the EU.

    One is engaged in a foolish policy that's not paying dividends, the other is not. If you can recognize that the policy is foolish and you still keep at it... what does it say about Russian power structure? That too much power is concentrated at the top - that such power doesn't get challenged and thus has little internal pressure to reverse policy - even when it's clearly not working.

    Time to face it, Putin's prime has been long over. On the foreign policy front his record has a lot of stains and fumbles. Time for new blood is overdue - not just the man at the very top, but also those advising, and hopefully, for Russian's sake, not of the Gorbachev, Yeltsin type. Inability or fear for picking the "wrong successor" shouldn't be an excuse for tolerance of failed policies. It sadly is in the Kremlin atm.

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    GarryB
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    Post  GarryB Sun Jan 16, 2022 4:24 am

    Russia has an infinite number of pretexts to cut off all the stooges from Gas.

    They have, but Russia makes money selling gas so it actually makes more sense for Russia to put up with most of the shit from the EU and just sell gas... even with all the bullshit it is still very profitable for Russia.

    Putin makes the calls, and he clearly hasn't taken on any.

    Putin is a busy guy... I am sure he does not spend 10 hours a day every day working on Gazproms business and negotiate every deal... but equally I am sure he is kept up to date with what is happening and the CEO of Gazprom communicates with him about important things and problems.

    Most of the time I would expect Putin will just agree and let him do what he was doing, but sometimes Russian interests are not the same as Gazproms interests... for instance with regard to pumping gas through the Ukraine is less profitable than through other pipelines so from a purely business point of view if you don't need all your pipes flowing at full rates then the ones you slow down or stop are the more expensive and less profitable ones, well Putin stepped in there because politically it would be better to pump a little extra through the Ukraine for political reasons.

    The CEO of Gazprom actually said it was cheaper to not pump gas through the Ukraine and pay fines for not putting through the promised volumes than it was to pump the gas through the Ukraine and pay the transit fees which indicates how much they are.

    Putin basically said we make money either way the gas goes so put it through the Ukraine and pay the fees instead of the fines and everyone is happy.

    The Americans don't need any pretext to act and defend their interests - they create the pretext if needed....manufacturing them out of thin air.

    Yup, they repeatedly say they have interests and not friends.... but they go on about special relationships and alliances when they want to go to war somewhere...

    I personally avoid having friends like that.

    That's why one power has this predicament while the other exports LNG to premium markers in Asia without a fucking care in the world of what happens at the EU.

    So what you are saying is that evil monster enemy Russia just on the verge of invading and destroying the EU looks after EU interests better than the best buddy and ally and best friend against the bad guys of the universe US does... yeah, I would agree with that, but I don't understand it from any of the three perspectives...

    When the US or EU crosses one of Russias newly declared red lines that good will from Russia will disappear and we will see how the relationships change...

    Of course the US will have achieved what it wanted by separating the EU and Russia to prevent them working together and being made redundant, but will it backfire where the anti Russian EU states celebrate while the ones that are not so hostile suddenly regret being led down a path that really does not benefit them at all... we might see a real split in the EU... but most of the anti Russia countries are on her borders so even if a pro EU component broke away there would be a barrier of anti Russian countries in the way anyway... interesting that the South Streams and North Streams already bypass such states...

    One is engaged in a foolish policy that's not paying dividends, the other is not. If you can recognize that the policy is foolish and you still keep at it... what does it say about Russian power structure? That too much power is concentrated at the top - that such power doesn't get challenged and thus has little internal pressure to reverse policy - even when it's clearly not working.

    What foolish policy... they have been trying to engage the west for the last two decades and failed largely because the west is run from Washington and they don't want good relations with anyone but themselves... but they have used their time wisely and absorbed multiple blows that have allowed them to restructure and develop to the point where they are probably more independent than the US or the EU... both of which seem to have shifted their production to China.

    Russia is in the best position internationally than it has ever been before... no need to change a lot, but western containment means they really need to start looking to the rest of the world for further development and growth... though it will be mutual development and mutual growth which the rest of the world is not used to because normally the west is a parasite not a symbiote.

    Time to face it, Putin's prime has been long over.

    People in the west and haters of Russia keep saying he should go, but I don't think that alone would be a good reason for that to happen.

    In fact I would say the opposite... the time for the Russia haters in the wests time is over and instead of being such bastards to everyone you should start practising what you preach and being a bit more Christian about relations with other people and other countries... and I don't mean more crusades to murder people because their views are different...

    The problem is that Putin can either choose to leave office or a majority of Russian voters can choose to change the person in the role... there is really nothing at all anyone in the west could do to fix the west... all the political organisations that have any chance of ruling their countries... all the major political parties are infected with anti Putin and anti Russian bullshit, because the rich people who own them fear an alternative that is not so money oriented... not so evil.

    On the foreign policy front his record has a lot of stains and fumbles.

    He has dealt with a lot of attacks and feints and assaults on Russia and her neighbours not always victorious, but usually snatching the best possible results for Russia that were possible for him in his and their position.

    Time for new blood is overdue - not just the man at the very top, but also those advising, and hopefully, for Russian's sake, not of the Gorbachev, Yeltsin type

    If Putin and his advisors were of the Yeltsin or Gorby type you would not be demanding he be gone... and Russia would be in the toilet by now.

    Inability or fear for picking the "wrong successor" shouldn't be an excuse for tolerance of failed policies. It sadly is in the Kremlin atm.

    Of course the better the devil you know means change can be scary.... change can also sometimes be good, but I honestly don't know what you expect anyone else to actually do better.

    The best measure is western media and they want him gone... is that because they care so much about the people of Russia or do they seem him as being too capable and too hard to defeat politically... they want someone easier... more flexible... that doesn't think too much... they want Russia to be run from Washington like the EU is.

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    kvs
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    Post  kvs Sun Jan 16, 2022 5:01 am

    Only paid shills and some idiots in Russia are listening to western sanctimonious drivel. Funny how foreign "democrats" demand
    that voters choose leaders they prefer. Another term for this is colonialism. Arrogant western pinheads think that they can
    turn Russia into a colony with their prattle. After 20+ years of this failing and now having fully failed you would think people
    with functional brains would try another approach. But we are not dealing with rationality here. We are dealing with a hate
    and insecurity reflex.

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    Post  kvs Sun Jan 16, 2022 6:03 pm

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/business/2022/01/01/russia-looks-east-china-link-threatens-inflame-europes-gas-crisis/

    Sorry about the pay/trial wall.   But we have a wanker on this board who thinks that Nord Stream 2 is a project desperately
    needed and proposed by Russia.   Also, this wanker is part of the NATzO chorus that claims that the EU should stop using
    Russian natural gas to avoid "Russian blackmail".   Funny.   How come EU-tards are realizing that the Power of Siberia 2
    pipeline will leave them less cheap Russian gas?   I thought they did not want Russian blackmail natural gas.   Wasn't the
    USA supposed to supplant Russian supplies via LNG?

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    Post  mavaff Sun Jan 16, 2022 7:04 pm

    Here without that paywall.. lol!


    https://telegra.ph/Russia-looks-east-as-China-link-threatens-to-inflame-Europes-gas-crisis-01-16

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    Post  LMFS Sun Jan 16, 2022 8:24 pm

    Priceless lol1 lol1 lol1

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    GarryB
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    Post  GarryB Mon Jan 17, 2022 4:05 am

    Good article, but those Euro censored still can't grasp the situation...

    If it gets to the point where Russia can afford not to supply Europe and wants to use gas supply as a political tool, he notes, “that’s really dangerous, because that's super difficult to resolve.”

    Russia is not using gas as a political tool... Europe and the US does that... Russia is just selling a product for a reasonable price so it remains affordable to its customers so they don't look to diversify into some other energy source or just reduce their usage.

    Russia is not going to cut Europe off from energy for political reasons... it will be because they get much better much more stable long term contracts with China and none of the bullshit they get from Europe so of course they are going to switch to supplying China with gas, and not worry too much about the EU which is trying to contain and limit Russia anyway... I am sure the EU will be happy to pay the US for any gas they can spare when they think they can get good money out of them for it...

    And as for:

    Gabuev also warns of the potential risks for Moscow becoming too reliant on Beijing. Australia has recently seen an unofficial block on some imports into China in what was perceived as political retaliation.

    Russia does not tell China what to do and China does not tell Russia what to do... certainly in public. In private they might have a word and ask if they need support or advice, but it is not given publicly to humiliate them.... WTF would Australia know about democracy... there was no day of morning when an Aussie immigrant to New Zealand murdered 51 Muslims here and Aussies in Afghanistan seemed compliant in a culture of war crimes against muslims amongst their enemies, so I really don't think the Australian government is in a good position to be telling China how to treat their muslim populations... especially considering Australias record with its indigenous people... which is abysmal too.

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    Post  JohninMK Mon Jan 17, 2022 12:01 pm

    mavaff wrote:Here without that paywall.. lol!
    https://telegra.ph/Russia-looks-east-as-China-link-threatens-to-inflame-Europes-gas-crisis-01-16

    Thanks, that was a good article in a paper that many in power read here in the UK. Maybe they will start to recognise both the risk to gas prices and supply as well as the potential increase in Russia's political power.

    Time methinks to copy the Hungarian's move last September and sign some new 15 year contracts, which would negate all the issues. Those that do will be in an interesting position vis a vis those who don't. For example, Hungarian fertiliser must be very competitive (or profitable) currently.
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    Post  Hole Mon Jan 17, 2022 12:34 pm

    Gabuev also warns of the potential risks for Moscow becoming too reliant on Beijing.

    Well, it would be Bejing being reliant on Moscow. The same as with NS2: Russia could live without the money but a lot of Chinese would sit in the dark/cold.

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    Post  owais.usmani Mon Jan 17, 2022 2:47 pm

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    Post  Krepost Mon Jan 17, 2022 6:37 pm

    Remember the barge FORTUNA that laid pipes for NS2?
    Here seen near Kronshtadt recently.

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    Post  GarryB Tue Jan 18, 2022 8:43 am

    Time methinks to copy the Hungarian's move last September and sign some new 15 year contracts, which would negate all the issues. Those that do will be in an interesting position vis a vis those who don't. For example, Hungarian fertiliser must be very competitive (or profitable) currently.

    Securing a regular supply of relatively cheap energy is the obvious and sensible thing any rational government would do... so probably not for Boris.

    Maybe you could hook him up to the grid and run on Boris gas... smells and sounds like sht.

    Gabuev also warns of the potential risks for Moscow becoming too reliant on Beijing.

    Yes... the danger of free and open and fair trade... Moscow should keep trading with assholes in the EU because being reliant on China would be bad, but being played for fools by the EU is good for Russia... keeps them grounded I suspect.

    During consultations, international energy companies informed the Biden administration that there are no alternative supplies of gas available to replace Russian volumes if they are disrupted due to #Ukraine.

    So what they are saying is that if we go septic over Russia attacking the Ukraine and they stop pumping gas to Europe the Europe is going to have an energy crisis that will damage it and there are no other solutions to fill the void left by missing Russian gas.

    I am sure Biden nodded his head and didn't give a shit... full steam ahead on project get Russia to make the Ukraine their problem economically.

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    Post  owais.usmani Tue Jan 18, 2022 8:57 am

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    Post  ALAMO Tue Jan 18, 2022 9:52 am

    There are 30k people freezing each winter in the UK, they can get used to it in the rest of Europe.
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    Post  JohninMK Tue Jan 18, 2022 11:33 am

    ALAMO wrote:There are 30k people freezing each winter in the UK, they can get used to it in the rest of Europe.

    Source?

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