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    Russia-EU relationship

    flamming_python
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    Post  flamming_python Fri Apr 23, 2021 12:43 pm

    Hole wrote:Really funny, these western folks (and by this I mean politicians/repeaters and other "experts"). After Lenin renamed Russia into the Soviet Union and drew some artifical borders, because he hated Russians so much, the west didn´t accept it for decades. Even in the 70´s the SU was mostly named Soviet Russia in most of the western countries. And shortly after the "coutry" was gone they worship the artifical borders, even if this means war between "neighbors".

    There is no "Greater Russia". If Russia would return the so-called "former soviet states" it would only bring back traditional russian land.

    In the past years the SU was declared as evil as Nazi Germany, guilty of all sorts of crimes against the poor people of eastern europe and the "former soviet states". But the largest victim were the russian people and Russia herself.

    Lenin didn't hate Russians, he was a Russian himself, and he saw in what squalor his own people lived and in whose benefit they lived in such a system

    But he didn't see oppression as stemming from other peoples, he saw them as fellow victims of the same regime, and other regimes like it throughout Europe. Therefore he proposed a new framework of statehood based on socialism that attempted to give equality to all peoples, and a new economic system that would remove the need for national competition. He was absolutely correct and this is still the correct approach.

    That after socialism is gone now we're back to oligarchy and the nationalism they use to legitimize their rule and their borders just proves his writings, and indeed during the revolution the Bolsheviks were up against the same thing; lots of phony bourgeois states being declared by self-styled intelligencia and promising self-determination when in reality they were mainly just after power. The Ukraine today is but the most obvious example.
    The solution though is not to incorporate it into Russia, it's to wake people there up to the fact that the oligarchs in power and their neo-Nazi tools are the source of their misery, and why the country is permanently in crisis. And in the end they will either wake up or they will die off due to a massive demographic crisis and emigration.

    I hear a lot about how the commies divided the country. But no, it was never them that divided the country, that is what was done by their enemies. What they did was attempt to reform it from an empire towards a source of world revolution and then following the failure of that, to at least a state where everyone preserves their own dignity for who they are.
    GarryB
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    Post  GarryB Fri Apr 23, 2021 4:03 pm

    1. The gas wont be cheaper, since the pipeline already is many billions more expensive than planned.

    It wont be cheaper that the current piped gas, but it will be much more reliable because the Orcs wont be able to intercept it.

    2. The pipeline is against european energy politics, the EU parliament voted against it.

    Cheap reliable gas supplies would be at the core of any energy policy for the future.

    The alternative is freedom gas shipped from the US for triple the price and with the freeze they had this year there might not be any to send till next year.

    How is that good for energy security in Europe?

    3. The pipeline is anti european, since its undermines european security.

    It ensures an uninterrupted supply of energy that is cheaper than any other source of energy Europe has... or they would already be buying that.

    The french proposal is, to put a moratorium on the pipelìne and connect its completion to demands on russia.

    Good idea. Russia is selling essentially the same product in the Asian market for more than five times more money... the more time and money they waste pissing around with europe is time they could be spent liquifying the gas and shipping it to markets where customers are being massively overcharged and they could make heaps of money with less bullshit... their new customers would appreciate the lower costs.

    As an Italian (and as a German taxpayer) I am extremely annoyed by all this barking from our "allies". All of the requests from France, England, Poland etc are always against the interest of both my country and my host country

    When America and its grand alliance of India and Australia and Japan stir things up with China they will be demanding the EU cuts all trade along those silk routes China and many other countries have been creating/organising... it will be a pivotal point.... will the EU remain Americas bitch, or will the grow some balls and make some big boy decisions and make money trading with Asia with real money instead of the US with their freshly printed ink still wet monopoly money instead...

    India and the EU could be poles of power and growth and development in a future multipolar world or they can remain Americas tool of conquest and subjigation to be used against Russia and China and any other country that dares stick its head up.

    3. That depends on personal view and if Russia does try to use the pipeline as a weapon which who knows maybe they will or maybe they won't, no one here an see the future to that's speculation

    They have never used gas supplies to europe as a weapon or leverage before, but the US and the EU has on many occasions including right now... in fact a core part of the "problem" is that it could possibly take away a subsidy of the Ukraine... ironic because as customers the EU actually pay that subsidy when they pay the transit fees for delivery.

    As long as Kiev does not steal gas or block its delivery to blackmail them for whatever reason, it actually makes sense for Russia to continue sending gas through the Ukraine... they make a profit despite some fees going to Kiev.

    Even at double the price it would be cheaper than paying Ukraine for transit. Let alone the other countries along the route.

    Even double the price will be cheaper than LNG which has to be turned into a liquid for shipping and then restored into gas form to deliver... even Russian LNG will be twice or more the price of piped gas, but other sources are even more expensive still.

    I hear a lot about how the commies divided the country. But no, it was never them that divided the country, that is what was done by their enemies. What they did was attempt to reform it from an empire towards a source of world revolution and then following the failure of that, to at least a state where everyone preserves their own dignity for who they are.

    They spent most of their energy preparing for war with the west, and when it came it was just as well for the world that they did prepare because if there were no T-34s and KV-1s and MiG-3s and Yak-1s and they had to defend themselves with a few hundred Churchil tanks and some Hurricanes, the Germans would have gotten their living space and all the resources they would need for their new reich...
    kvs
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    Post  kvs Fri Apr 23, 2021 5:19 pm

    3. The pipeline is anti european, since its undermines european security.

    This is a certifiably insane statement. Customers are free to buy gas where they want and that includes "US" (Qatari) LNG.
    Does your local grocery store violate your security also? That is exactly what the above drivel, parroting brain dead yanqui
    hate propaganda claims.

    The mentality of NATO trash is something else. They are getting a favour offered to them by having access to cheap
    Russian gas (since the 1980s) and piss on Russia for it. Russia needs to start treating NATO trash as trash. It is clear
    that being nice to trash only makes the trash smell more.

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    Rodion_Romanovic
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    Post  Rodion_Romanovic Fri Apr 23, 2021 5:30 pm

    kvs wrote:
    3. The pipeline is anti european, since its undermines european security.

    This is a certifiably insane statement.   Customers are free to buy gas where they want and that includes "US" (Qatari) LNG.
    Does your local grocery store violate your security also?   That is exactly what the above drivel, parroting brain dead yanqui
    hate propaganda claims.  

    The mentality of NATO trash is something else.   They are getting a favour offered to them by having access to cheap
    Russian gas (since the 1980s) and piss on Russia for it.    Russia needs to start treating NATO trash as trash.   It is clear
    that being nice to trash only makes the trash smell more.


    Typical french arrogance. It reminds me the Asterix comics where the gauls were depicted as peace loving do gooder under the Roman subjugation, forgetting that for centuries the territories of Rome were regularly invaded (and in one occasion the gauls even entered and sacked Rome) from the barbarians from the north, before finally Rome decided to stop the problem at source.

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    Aristide
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    Post  Aristide Fri Apr 23, 2021 7:22 pm

    kvs wrote:
    3. The pipeline is anti european, since its undermines european security.

    This is a certifiably insane statement.   Customers are free to buy gas where they want and that includes "US" (Qatari) LNG.
    Does your local grocery store violate your security also?   That is exactly what the above drivel, parroting brain dead yanqui
    hate propaganda claims.  

    The mentality of NATO trash is something else.   They are getting a favour offered to them by having access to cheap
    Russian gas (since the 1980s) and piss on Russia for it.    Russia needs to start treating NATO trash as trash.   It is clear
    that being nice to trash only makes the trash smell more.


    Europe has always been a balance between its great powers. France, Germany and the UK.

    It has also always been the case, that France is the most pushing actor in this. France sees Nordstream II as a tool to force Russia in a specific direction. Last week Macron made clear to Merkel, that France would stop
    the pipeline and Merkel knew, that without French support, she cant complete it. Merkel also called Putin and the recent troop removal can be seen as signal for Putin to ease the situation.

    France is not per se against the project, infact one of the great investors is a french company. But we use it for our benefits.
    kvs
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    Post  kvs Fri Apr 23, 2021 10:04 pm

    If Russian gas is such a security threat, then why is it not a security threat if Russia keeps shipping it through Ukraine.

    You retarded fucks can't even make a coherent argument.

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    Aristide
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    Post  Aristide Fri Apr 23, 2021 10:16 pm

    kvs wrote:If Russian gas is such a security threat, then why is it not a security threat if Russia keeps shipping it through Ukraine.

    You retarded fucks can't even make a coherent argument.



    Its a french proposal to end all gas delivery in near future.

    As for why it is no security risk when shipped through Ukraine, its because Ukraine can shut it down and take the income away from Russia, which mKes Russia think twice.
    SeigSoloyvov
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    Post  SeigSoloyvov Fri Apr 23, 2021 10:40 pm

    Aristide wrote:
    kvs wrote:If Russian gas is such a security threat, then why is it not a security threat if Russia keeps shipping it through Ukraine.

    You retarded fucks can't even make a coherent argument.



    Its a french proposal to end all gas delivery in near future.

    As for why it is no security risk when shipped through Ukraine, its because Ukraine can shut it down and take the income away from Russia, which mKes Russia think twice.

    The French don't wanna end all gas deliveries...

    and if the EU does, where you going to get your gas?.

    The only another option is the US which is more expensive.

    From a pure business standpoint that wouldn't make sense

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    Aristide
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    Post  Aristide Fri Apr 23, 2021 10:56 pm

    SeigSoloyvov wrote:
    Aristide wrote:
    kvs wrote:If Russian gas is such a security threat, then why is it not a security threat if Russia keeps shipping it through Ukraine.

    You retarded fucks can't even make a coherent argument.



    Its a french proposal to end all gas delivery in near future.

    As for why it is no security risk when shipped through Ukraine, its because Ukraine can shut it down and take the income away from Russia, which mKes Russia think twice.

    The French don't wanna end all gas deliveries...

    and if the EU does, where you going to get your gas?.

    The only another option is the US which is more expensive.

    From a pure business standpoint that wouldn't make sense

    Fossil fuels are a thing of the past. Climate neutrality is the goal we strive for.
    SeigSoloyvov
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    Post  SeigSoloyvov Fri Apr 23, 2021 11:00 pm

    Powering even France on pure green energy isn't technological possible and will not be for our lifetimes or the next our the next.

    It's a fools dream to think you can go green right now, the technology doesn't exist.

    Until then you'll need fossil fuel.

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    Rodion_Romanovic
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    Post  Rodion_Romanovic Fri Apr 23, 2021 11:05 pm

    SeigSoloyvov wrote:Powering even France on pure green energy isn't technological possible and will not be for our lifetimes or the next our the next.

    It's a fools dream to think you can go green right now, the technology doesn't exist.

    Until then you'll need fossil fuel.
    If you want to go really green stop using all modern appliances (including pc and mobile phones) and find an ecological community. In Italy we have, as an example, gli "elfi di Pistoia"

    https://ecovillaggi.it/rive/ecovillaggi/13-elfi.html

    I am sure there will be similar communities on the other side of the Alps as well.

    Feel free to join one of them and then you'll be coherent.

    Edit
    The invitation was to Aristide, not to our American friend

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    mavaff
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    Post  mavaff Sat Apr 24, 2021 7:02 am

    Aristide wrote:But we use it for our benefits.

    Care to explain what are your benefits? Paying gas from Sabine Pass LNG about 40% more?
    GarryB
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    Post  GarryB Sat Apr 24, 2021 8:16 am

    Perhaps Aristide has shares in French companies that make nuclear power stations.... that is as green as you can get...

    Amusing his logic though... very much consistent with EU and US logic... the loss of a tiny amount of money Russia earns selling gas to Europe is worth Europe running out of energy and freezing and paying a lot more for LNG... and the only country with enough LNG available to matter... is Russia... here is the gas we would have piped to you... two weeks late because it had to be liquified and shipped... and it will cost you 3 times more than through the pipe... and the Orcs wont get anything in transit fees from this either.... but still 20% cheaper than the American stuff which takes four weeks to get there if they have it...
    lyle6
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    Post  lyle6 Sat Apr 24, 2021 8:20 am

    Didn't the French protested against excessive excise taxes on petrol a few years back? For someone who purports to be French its curious how one can be tone-deaf to the plight of his fellow countrymen. Or perhaps the swarthy gentlemen has no need for petrol at all, relying on more traditional fuels like the dried camel dung as it has been practiced in the Maghreb for centuries.
    George1
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    Post  George1 Fri Apr 30, 2021 1:25 am

    Resolution of the European Parliament calls for disconnecting the Russian Federation from SWIFT and abandoning Russian oil and gas
    Yesterday, 18: 42
    163

    The topic of Russia's possible disconnection from the SWIFT payment system is gaining momentum. So, today, representatives of the European Parliament have made a proposal to impose sanctions of this kind against the Russian Federation.

    The EP said that Russia should be disconnected from SWIFT in the event that "Moscow allows continued aggression against Ukraine." In particular, it is stated that if Russia "violates the territorial integrity and sovereignty of Ukraine," then it is necessary not only to disconnect the Russian Federation from SWIFT, but also to abandon the purchase of Russian hydrocarbons - oil and gas.

    These are the words that are presented in the resolution that the European parliamentarians adopted at the end of the plenary session.

    It should be noted that threats to disconnect Russia from the SWIFT system have been heard for several years - in fact, since the reunification of Crimea with Russia. At the same time, Moscow has already repeatedly said that such sanctions will harm, first of all, Europe itself and other countries that have a large trade turnover with the Russian Federation. Moreover, Russia has already prepared for any scenarios, including problems with SWIFT, by creating alternative options.

    The proposal to abandon the purchase of oil and gas in the Russian Federation looks like natural populism. If the European Union loses even half of its imports of Russian gas, it will deal an irreparable blow to the economies of the EU countries, which will also affect the political landscape of Europe.

    At the same time, it is important to note that the EP resolutions are of a declarative nature if they relate to foreign policy directions.

    https://en.topwar.ru/182533-rezoljucija-evroparlamenta-prizyvaet-otkljuchit-rf-ot-swift-i-otkazatsja-ot-rossijskih-nefti-i-gaza.html

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    kvs
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    Post  kvs Fri Apr 30, 2021 3:05 am

    I say, bring it EU-tards.

    SWIFT is not important for Russia. Customers around the world will be doing everything they can to use the Russian alternative. They
    cannot afford to lose access to Russian products and energy. And Russia does not need anything from the precious west, which does
    not even produce anything and has the far east do all the manufacturing.

    Funny how these EU-tards think that they can flip over to magical US LNG on a whim. They are not even retarded, they are just
    tape recorders playing back yanqui drivel.

    Rodion_Romanovic
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    Post  Rodion_Romanovic Fri Apr 30, 2021 11:14 am

    "Various political forces believe that electricity is taken directly from the outlet. And how it gets there, no one goes into details."

    https://t.me/rt_russian/64626


    Putin at a meeting with business representatives of France — about speculation around the "Nord Stream-2":


    "We know that, unfortunately, there are a lot of different kinds of political speculation around this project. But I want to emphasize once again: this is a purely economic project that has nothing to do with the current political situation.
    Yes, there is a lot of talk around it, connected, in my opinion, primarily with attempts at unfair competition in the European market.
    We had such a classic writer-Saltykov-Shchedrin. He had a character-a general who was in the forest. And he would send his orderly out for buns, thinking that croissants and buns grew on trees. In my opinion, some political forces believe that the same electricity is taken-just from the outlet»

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    GarryB
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    Post  GarryB Fri Apr 30, 2021 11:54 am

    The EP said that Russia should be disconnected from SWIFT in the event that "Moscow allows continued aggression against Ukraine." In particular, it is stated that if Russia "violates the territorial integrity and sovereignty of Ukraine," then it is necessary not only to disconnect the Russian Federation from SWIFT, but also to abandon the purchase of Russian hydrocarbons - oil and gas.

    If that is their trigger, then violent and blatant annexation of Crimea already qualifies does it not?

    Ironically this is like the US dollar... for years the Russians talked about selling the US debt they owned, and to start doing international transactions in other currencies... it took US sanctions and actions regarding the US dollar that forced them to follow up and deliver on such promises... US debt was sold and transactions are more and more done in national currencies that are not US dollars... basically they needed a kick up the arse to do what they should have been doing a long time ago.

    This will hopefully be the same because in the long term, Russia benefits and I think other countries will benefit too as they join new banking systems not clearly controlled by the US and EU... both have threatened to cut off Russia from the system which tells you how actually international it really is.

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    Post  calripson Fri Apr 30, 2021 4:28 pm

    GarryB wrote:
    The EP said that Russia should be disconnected from SWIFT in the event that "Moscow allows continued aggression against Ukraine." In particular, it is stated that if Russia "violates the territorial integrity and sovereignty of Ukraine," then it is necessary not only to disconnect the Russian Federation from SWIFT, but also to abandon the purchase of Russian hydrocarbons - oil and gas.

    If that is their trigger, then violent and blatant annexation  of Crimea already qualifies does it not?

    Ironically this is like the US dollar... for years the Russians talked about selling the US debt they owned, and to start doing international transactions in other currencies... it took US sanctions and actions regarding the US dollar that forced them to follow up and deliver on such promises... US debt was sold and transactions are more and more done in national currencies that are not US dollars... basically they needed a kick up the arse to do what they should have been doing a long time ago.

    This will hopefully be the same because in the long term, Russia benefits and I think other countries will benefit too as they join new banking systems not clearly controlled by the US and EU... both have threatened to cut off Russia from the system which tells you how actually international it really is.


    There is zero real sovereignty in the EU. All European media is controlled. They all dance to the same puppet masters tune. Germany is an occupied country 76 years after the war ended (as is Japan). Let them try and assert sovereignty and they will get hit with a $10 trillion bill for reparations. As for the bureaucrats, they all know on what side their bread is buttered.

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    Post  par far Fri Apr 30, 2021 7:10 pm

    Europe is slowly going to shit(as are other western countries), the best thing for Russia(and China) is to be patient, carry on with what they are doing and not get involved in a big war.







    I don't think it is a coup attempt but it will make relation ship between the military and government a little bad. And Moron is a globalist he does not care if France goes to shit(France has already gone to shit.)

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    JohninMK
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    Post  JohninMK Fri Apr 30, 2021 7:23 pm

    ASB News / MILITARY
    Part alternation mark
    @ASBMilitary
    ·
    1h
    BREAKING: Russia blacklists European Parliament President and several EU officials & Berlin’s top prosecutor

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    Hole
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    Post  Hole Sat May 01, 2021 12:04 pm

    Russia-EU relationship - Page 5 E0rd0q10
    Russia-EU relationship - Page 5 E0rdun10
    Russia-EU relationship - Page 5 E0rebk10
    Laughing

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    flamming_python
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    Post  flamming_python Sat May 01, 2021 5:34 pm

    Hole wrote:Russia-EU relationship - Page 5 E0rd0q10
    Russia-EU relationship - Page 5 E0rdun10
    Russia-EU relationship - Page 5 E0rebk10
    Laughing

    These Sputnik News propaganda cartoons are the lamest ever

    A good cartoon is one which uses subtlety and metaphors
    kvs
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    Post  kvs Sat May 01, 2021 6:57 pm

    If they are the lamest ever, then that applies for every western and global political cartoon as well.

    Do not hold Russian media to higher standards. This is the normal "sky is falling" BS in Russia which is totally detached from reality.

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    Post  PapaDragon Sat May 01, 2021 8:06 pm

    flamming_python wrote:...These Sputnik News propaganda cartoons are the lamest ever

    A good cartoon is one which uses subtlety and metaphors

    During Cold War one side was making cartoons with subtlety and metaphors

    Other side was making cartoons which were getting the job done

    Only one of those two sides exists today


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