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    Russia-EU relationship

    lyle6
    lyle6


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    Post  lyle6 Fri Jun 28, 2024 11:36 pm

    flamming_python wrote:
    It's not about revenge, it's about results, as I've already said elsewhere. Russia needs to do that which gives it results. It's better to work to undermine the European establishments and get more of the populations in these countries closer to your own point of view and to be in favour of the BRICS alternatives to Western institutions, than to start indiscriminately killing them and giving purchase to all this propaganda about Russia being the source of evil in the world.
    You've given these assholes time and time again to reconsider their bullshit. They're still at it.

    You need to smash them to bits. The world will thank you for it.
    flamming_python
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    Post  flamming_python Sat Jun 29, 2024 6:02 am

    It's a process. Trust the process.

    And I'm not talking about their puppet leaderships of course.
    GarryB
    GarryB


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    Post  GarryB Sun Jun 30, 2024 10:08 am


    Russia won't come out on top by becoming a carbon-copy of the West. You said something to that effect yourself at times.

    Totally agree, but I find talking out loud about the sort of thing the west actually does and having Russia do it, it makes Russia actually sound like the evil bad guys the west pretends that Russia is... which is ironic because in the context they are using the wests playbook... whatever that actually means.

    BRICS alternatives to Western institutions, than to start indiscriminately killing them and giving purchase to all this propaganda about Russia being the source of evil in the world.

    As a lesson though it would be the best sort, because when the west jumps up and down and declares that Russian troops occupying the Ukraine is unacceptable for HATO security then Russia can point out that Putin said Ukraine as part of HATO was unacceptable for Russia and they laughed at him.

    Or deep strikes in Russia and using cluster munitions around civilians is OK... until Russia does the same to countries directly supporting and supplying the Ukraine... like France... during an Olympics... and of course the west also says... they just supply weapons and ammo and money to Kiev... they hold no responsibility for anything that Kiev might do with those weapons or ammo or money... in my little scenario Russia is just supplying MANPADS and ATGMs... and in fact they are HATO weapons so in that sense they are also just returning them anyway...

    BRICS alternatives to Western institutions, than to start indiscriminately killing them and giving purchase to all this propaganda about Russia being the source of evil in the world.

    In a fist fight the best way to stop escalation was to break their nose with a punch to the face. The jolt to the head and all that blood and most kids stop fighting. (when I was a kid of course.... using this as an example because the west is acting like children despite the serious consequences of their escalation that they don't seem to care about.... Ukrainians are just Russians anyway as far as they are concerned.)

    Kiko
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    Post  Kiko Fri Jul 12, 2024 6:22 pm

    Europe is obsessed with fear of Russia, by Gevorg Mirzayan for VZGLYAD. 07.12.2024.

    European leaders believe that the more passive they are now in the Ukrainian crisis, the greater the chance that the Russians and Americans will come to an agreement behind their backs. That is why Europe, realizing the high probability of Trump coming to power and starting the process of diplomatic settlement of the Ukrainian crisis in 2025, is now raising the stakes. Believing that by doing so it increases its own importance.

    Weak, spineless, worthless. Occupied by America and deprived of sovereignty.

    This is exactly how the Russian political science and blogging community talks about Europe and its role in the world. They consider it an absolutely led player, led by spineless officials like the head of the European Commission Ursula von der Leyen and the President of France Emmanuel Macron. There is no need to even talk about Chancellor Olaf Scholz (who, thanks to the former Ukrainian ambassador to Germany, was nicknamed “liver sausage”). At the same time – what a broad Russian soul – they even pity the Europeans. They hope that they will get rid of American influence and improve, and take the path of cooperation with common sense. Even the Russian foreign policy doctrine states that Moscow does not rule out the possibility of normalizing relations with the EU in the foreseeable future (unlike relations with the US, which are recognized as almost hopeless).

    However, the broad Russian soul is doing Russia a disservice here. Europe is by no means weak, spineless or worthless. Moreover, today it takes a much tougher and more aggressive position towards Moscow and the war in Ukraine than the Americans. And it is tough not only in words – the European countries themselves, of their own free will, are scraping out their arsenals to send everything that moves and shoots to the Kyiv regime. They themselves are refusing any even half-hearted attempts to find a diplomatic solution to the problem (in particular, they have already disowned the shuttle diplomacy of the new President of the European Council, Hungarian Prime Minister Viktor Orban). They are firmly focused on inflicting a strategic defeat on Russia. And Donald Trump, if he wins the American elections, will not even need to force European officials to take on the main costs of the war – they will do it with pleasure.

    And all because they are very afraid. They are afraid of Russia's victory in the war in Ukraine and the consequences that this victory will bring to the European Union. And this is not at all about the "Russian march on Warsaw and Berlin" with which the "hawks" are trying to scare the European people.

    They are afraid of a hostile Russia. Everyone understands perfectly well that Russian citizens (not to be confused with ordinary people) are unlikely to forgive the Germans for tanks with crosses on their turrets, from which they killed Russian soldiers. The Czechs for their MLRS, striking peaceful Belgorod. The French for their SCALP, the British Storm Shadow. No one is going to take Berlin or Warsaw, but there is no longer any hope for any Russian help in the form of cheap gas (which made Europe rich) or a collective security system (protecting the Old World from threats from the south and southeast).

    They are afraid of an attractive Russia. After Russia's victory, Moscow will certainly strengthen its ties with European non-systemic players - right and left, for whom the Russian policy of protecting conservative values ​​and national interests is a model. And the hour is not far off when Vladimir Putin - who personalises this policy - will become a model politician for that part of the European electorate that is tired of mindless political correctness and plush administrators who become presidents. And this means that politicians who cosplay Putin's image will win national elections.

    Finally, they are simply afraid of being left alone. The growth of neo-isolationism in the United States, the shift of American attention to East Asia, the loss of control over the post-Soviet space due to the Russian victory – all this may lead to the United States reducing its interest in European affairs. They will shift to Europe not only the financing of the Ukrainian war, but also the containment of the post-war victorious Russia. And European leaders (especially within the framework of the EU mechanism) cannot and do not know how to make strategic decisions independently.

    And to prevent all these misfortunes, European leaders are trying either to inflict a strategic defeat on Russia, or – what is even better for them – to achieve a change of Russian power to the one that existed in the 90s. A power that builds relations with the EU on the principle of “whatever you want”. Yes, from the Russian point of view this is impossible – that time has long passed, and entire generations of Russians have sworn to themselves never to allow such humiliations again. But Europe is obsessed with fear, and fear forces them to cling to any, even the most illusory, opportunities to prevent what they fear.

    Yes, some European politicians admit that Russia's victory is inevitable. But instead of trying to separately agree with Moscow on the post-war rules of the game (a logical behavior, in general, from the point of view of Russian experts), they are taking an increasingly "hawkish" position. They are even talking about sending troops into Ukraine.

    And here too there is its own – European – logic, which is dictated by fear. Fear of being left outside the negotiating table.

    European leaders believe that the more passive they are now in the Ukrainian crisis, the greater the chance that the Russians and Americans will come to an agreement behind their backs. That the US will ignore European interests – just as it ignored Saudi and Israeli ones during the peace deal with Iran under Barack Obama. That is why Europe, realizing the high probability of Trump coming to power and starting the process of diplomatic settlement of the Ukrainian crisis in 2025, is now raising the stakes. Believing that by doing so it increases its own importance.

    And if someone thinks that Europe can be persuaded, convinced, explained and reassured – then no, it is extremely unlikely. A weak, spineless, worthless, but tremblingly afraid person does not hear arguments – even about the fact that his own behavior will lead to the materialisation of these fears.

    https://vz.ru/opinions/2024/7/12/1276826.html

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    Kiko
    Kiko


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    Post  Kiko Fri Jul 19, 2024 7:15 am

    One on One with Russia: Europe Prepares for NATO's Departure, by Kirill Strelnikov for RiaNovosti. 07.19.2024.

    "Turn off the lights, drain the water": indescribable turmoil and gnashing of teeth is heard in the transatlantic elites (they are also the so-called world government, they are also globalists, they are also the curators of the so-called US deep state).
    Donald Trump's earlobe , flying at the speed of a bullet, has tipped the election scales so much that it is now absolutely clear to everyone: if Trump remains alive by the elections, his victory is guaranteed with a large margin. If earlier, with a difference in polls between the ex-president and the current US president of two to three percent, the Clinton-Kagan clan had a repeatedly tested version of "witchcraft" with ballots in reserve, then with Trump's obvious and indisputable advantage, this witchcraft is guaranteed to turn into mass unrest, threatening civil war.

    In this regard, the current real owners of the White House are left with only one thing: to urgently look for a replacement for Biden (what if it works out) and start separating the steam from the armored train standing on the siding.

    The decision on the first issue has already been made: yesterday, information appeared that the most prominent figures of the US Democratic Party began to openly call for changing the horse that had been driven into the river. In particular, former Speaker of the House of Representatives Nancy Pelosi called Joe Biden and said that, according to polls, he has no chance of winning, and that he "will destroy the Democrats' chances of winning in the House of Representatives with his stubbornness." The leader of the Democrats in the US Senate, Chuck Schumer, told Biden the same thing and asked him to withdraw his candidacy. However, Biden is stubborn (or rather, his "sitters"), and the chances of retaining power for the Deep Staters are also stubbornly melting away before our eyes.

    As for the armoured train, it is heading to Europe. Just as Trump's obsession is the confrontation with China , the Clintons and Kagans have a direct confrontation with Russia, which they initiated in Ukraine . As Trump has repeatedly stated, and Republican vice-presidential candidate J.D. Vance confirmed yesterday, for European allies "the time for freebies has passed." Donald Trump himself named ending the conflict in Ukraine as one of the first points of his presidency. In turn, Ivo Daalder , head of the Chicago Council on Global Affairs , recently stated that "very soon Europe will have to rely solely on itself in the security sphere and not rely on the United States." This means that with the US's withdrawal from Europe, NATO will turn into Farinelli's castrate, which means that everything must be done to freeze the conflict between Europe and Russia in the current hot phase until the next presidential elections, where the Democrats will try to take revenge.

    To achieve this, the departing NATO must be quickly replaced by a new, purely European NATO, where the Atlantists who escaped on an armored train will continue to rule.

    Yesterday, the main Russophobe, former gynecologist and re-elected head of the European Commission Ursula von der Leyen made a loud statement: "Our work in the next five years will focus on building a genuine defense European Union." And if specifically, then the European Union (initially a political and economic union) is planned to be transformed into a military organization with a common defense fund, centralized planning, military production, intelligence, logistics, and so on - all in the image and likeness of NATO.

    The new EuroNATO will be headed by a special commissioner of the EC for defense (this position did not exist before). In order to avoid any illusions about the "defensiveness" of the reborn EU , it is enough to name the previously announced candidates for the post of "Secretary General of EuroNATO", who are, as if selected, ardent Russophobes. The former Prime Minister of Estonia Kaja Kallas , the President of Romania Klaus Iohannis and the Minister of Foreign Affairs of Lithuania Gabrielius Landsbergis were considered as the EU Defense Commissioner , but most likely this post will be occupied by a pathological and completely reckless hawk - the Minister of Foreign Affairs of Poland Radoslaw Sikorski.

    Given Ms. von der Leyen's statement that one of the central tasks of the new militarized EU will be "financial, political and military support for Ukraine" and "for as long as necessary," there is a feeling that Biden's current puppeteers are confident that even with the US leaving Europe, the conflict in Ukraine will successfully continue and harm Russia.

    Nevertheless, paradoxically, the potential transformation of the European Union into a quasi-NATO most likely plays into the hands of the future US President Donald Trump. In his election program, the well-being of Europe is not reflected in the word "at all", that is, the US, with a cry of "Banzai!" will happily chop off from Europe, which is busy with war, its market, its production, its people, and its money. At the same time, Trump will be 100 percent satisfied with the fact that the European Union will fight Russia itself and with its own money, thanks to which he will be able to direct the freed up resources to his main goal - the future war with China.

    As for the white and fluffy plan to end the Ukrainian conflict, the experienced player Trump has taken concrete precautions here: it is obvious that Trump's "peace plan" will be an ultimatum, in which, among other things, Russia will be required to be content with an incomplete fulfillment of the tasks of the SVO, and also (remember Trump's quirk) with 100% probability they will demand guarantees of Russia's non-participation in a potential conflict between China and Taiwan , which Trump is eager to unleash. If it works out, great, if not, let the Europeans continue the war themselves.

    It is clear that many forces in Europe, secretly (and openly) hoping for a quick end to the conflict given the situation "on the ground" and Trump's statements about peace, are not very happy about this prospect. The voluntary surrender of national sovereignty and the political impotence of the elites of European states have led to the fact that they have already been skinned three times (and will soon be skinned a fourth), and now Europe will be on the threshold of a direct military clash with Russia - but without the help of the United States.

    For decades, Russia has been calling on Europe to participate in a common Eurasian security system, but it seems that the Europeans are most drawn to political and economic masochism, which may now be joined by military masochism.

    If someone is constantly asking to be finally flogged, then he should remember: it may turn out that the stop word will only be in Russian.

    https://ria.ru/20240719/evropa-1960568642.html


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