Russophobia, Common Lies-Nonsense on Russia

ALAMO wrote:Are you even sane&sauber?
Rape and murder is a tool of war and used to be ones for ages.
There were mass rapes at any side of the conflict, we can only discuss the scale and reasons behind it.
Codification of it is just another example of social changes we faced in the last age or so, because anyone would hardly discuss the matter in XIX century.
The Napoleon army was a rapist army, just the same way as the Brits behaved, including raping&robbing the nominal allies in Spain.
There were rapes in the 1871 war, in the US civil war, and at ANY war.
No one really cared about that, it used to be a normal thing.
Either run, or spread your legs.
Only WWI provided a slight difference to that, because it used to be a very stagnant one, and the civilian population was able to run away. Plus a lots of social changes were already happening in the background.
The Soviet general staff put attention to that matter, so you can guess if they did that because the issue was non-existent.
Denying the rapes there is just the same stupid, as denying organized brothels existing for the Japanese army, and the Germans.
Or discussing the fact, that after the war, whole western occupied zones turned to be a big brothel, where sex was a currency to feed yourself.
And If I were you, I would not even touch the abortion issue, because it will kick you back like a mule.
First of all, I will remind you that abortion itself was a legal mean of birth control in the 3rd Reich.
Arian laws actually encouraged the non-Arian population for it, and combined with the eugenics, any German woman could have a legal abortion due to "fetus deformation".
It was not a big deal at all well into a war, only in 1944 or so, some codification changes were applied to "protect the Arians".
But people give a shit about that.
Now comes the interesting part of the story.
As soon as the war ended, both parts of divided Germany implemented a different means.
The western zone returned to the pre-Nazi code, that restricted abortion in full.
On the other hand, the Eastern Germany didn't care of that at all till the 50s, and then took a Soviet way. Abortion was perfectly legal in the Soviet Union.
The estimates for abortion rates for after-war Germany are considered as high as 2 mln A YEAR.
Seriously.
The "funny" part of that is, that the western propaganda is trying to put all of that to the Soviet occupation zone, and that is pure bullshit.
Those were the German women from West Germany, that were forced to move to the Netherlands to have a legal procedure there, not the Eastern ones.
The number is made by the economic misery, lack of social security, lack of home&safety, and - of course - last but not least, the rapes issue.
But not only that, prostitutes used to get pregnant, too.
I saw a materials suggesting that up to 400 000 German women participated in organized prostitution, so you can wonder the results.

Before posturing you can bother to cite where there are actual case files for 2 million German women being raped. You think
like a typical politician: either/or. The discussion point is 2 million rapes and not rapes happening. These are not equivalent
morally or legally. Based on what happened in the 1990s, there is a tendency to apply a 10x fluff factor. So the truth is
closer to 200,000 and not 2 million.

Also, the Nazis did not punish their forces for crimes such as rape and murder. The Soviets did punish their soldiers for such behaviour.
We see here the routine projection of western criminality onto Russians (Soviets "=" Russians in the west). The 2 million rapes
is a tin foil hat conspiracy theory designed to smear Russians with some sort of plan to harm German civilians. So the civilians
that died from "allied" bombing are not a "plan" and not a crime. Just like Hiroshima and Nagaski were not a crime because the
crusader west is all about holy works.

I have always heard here in America that Soviet soldiers mass raped German civilian women in Germany during World War II; What is true?

The western view of the war on the eastern front came largely from our west german allies... if the Soviets mass raped German women why would they have stopped fighting?

Even without opening that link... the biggest mass rape in history?

Really?

Have you heard of comfort girls, or Japanese treatment of China and other countries in Asia?

You can find people who will contest that fact, but don't listen to them.
They are either naive or politically motivated or know shit.
And no, Germans were not even close to them, with tons of racial regulations and severe punishment applied to soldiers who did.

Don't listen to anyone who disagrees with me because they are just falling for propaganda... remember the Germans were the good guys and the Soviets were the bad guys so it is obvious that the Soviets were guilty and the Germans were totally innocent...

After what the Soviets went through the previous years of war there were a lot of things they wanted to do to the Germans, but raping them was likely not the highest priority.

Even if they did, and I don't believe they did, they had every justification to do to the German people a small fraction of what the Germans had been doing the previous four years of the war to Russians.

The claim that the Germans had better discipline is bullshit.... there were no rules or consequences for German soldiers in the Soviet Union for anything, they could, and did, anything they pleased with no consequences for four years.

The Soviets had all sorts of regulations too... no army is stupid enough to think it can control a population and rape them at the same time and expect order.

The starving population of Germany provided hundreds of thousands of women motivated to do anything for social security.

So German women were whores for food... that is all you need to say.

It was only rape if you are racist like those bitches...

The question should be put in a different perspective.
Why did the Soviets behave themself this way?

You have not proved it even happened yet... plenty of women in a war zone are found to be pregnant... of course they are going to claim they were raped, they are hardly going to admit to being whores for food.

Well, I can give you a first-hand story, as my grandmother was raped by a Soviet soldier in Germany, 1945.
She witnessed that all.

Wow... that is all the proof we need... one German woman raped once by one soldier... it must have been rampant...

They feel a need to punish the entire population, and rape was one of the tools.

Bullshit... you hate someone you don't rape them... you just shoot them or let them starve.

No matter how harsh was the punishment, and no matter how inevitable - you can't stop a guy who is much closer to Gengis Khan rather to Dostoyevsky.

Of course... half asian Russian monkeys could not deny their libedoes... in many cases they could not help themselves.

With just one rape by one Russian your grandma must have been ugly.

By the way, the soldier who raped my grandma was executed without any trial.
She complained to the garrison commander, he only asked if she can recognize the guy. She said yes, so he gathered the squad.
Grandma recognized and showed the guy, and the Russian officer just took out his TT and shot him straight between the eyes, point blank.

So what the **** are you complaining about... do you think that Russians grandmother who got raped in Kiev two years before could go to the local german commander and get the same result? They would likely pass her around the room and then shoot her.

Rape and murder is a tool of war and used to be ones for ages.

Your own example contradicts what you are saying... if Rape was accepted tool of war then your grandmother would be dead.... shot by the commander who shot the rapist with the bullet he used on the rapist.

There were mass rapes at any side of the conflict, we can only discuss the scale and reasons behind it.

Your last post you said the Germans didn't rape... too civilised.

The Soviet general staff put attention to that matter, so you can guess if they did that because the issue was non-existent.
Denying the rapes there is just the same stupid, as denying organized brothels existing for the Japanese army, and the Germans.

But the Soviets were the bad guys... why did they put rules to stop it... why did the Soviet commander shoot the rapist and not the rape victim?

Or discussing the fact, that after the war, whole western occupied zones turned to be a big brothel, where sex was a currency to feed yourself.

So it is not rape if you give them a chocolate bar afterwards...

The Soviets rape us, and the Americans give us Chocolate bars... well at least you have a balanced view of what happened.

And If I were you, I would not even touch the abortion issue, because it will kick you back like a mule.
First of all, I will remind you that abortion itself was a legal mean of birth control in the 3rd Reich.
Arian laws actually encouraged the non-Arian population for it, and combined with the eugenics, any German woman could have a legal abortion due to "fetus deformation".
It was not a big deal at all well into a war, only in 1944 or so, some codification changes were applied to "protect the Arians".
But people give a shit about that.
Now comes the interesting part of the story.
As soon as the war ended, both parts of divided Germany implemented a different means.
The western zone returned to the pre-Nazi code, that restricted abortion in full.
On the other hand, the Eastern Germany didn't care of that at all till the 50s, and then took a Soviet way. Abortion was perfectly legal in the Soviet Union.
The estimates for abortion rates for after-war Germany are considered as high as 2 mln A YEAR.
Seriously.

So they murder their own unborn babies... so rape is really not an issue is it?

Or are you arguing the Soviets kept raping the poor innocent Germans into the 1950s...  I am impressed by their stamina....

Yes people do bad things

No.... only the Soviets... the Soviet soldiers kept their chocolate bars so that made them rapists.

All were just the same.
At any side of the front, and any time.
Soviets might have some "advantages" to the matter, but if we consider the context ...
We are talking about the guys who fought a 4 years of crushing, brutal and inhuman war. Who lost the relatives. Wives, children, parents, sisters, and brothers.
Most of them were not even raped, slaved, and struggled, but slaughtered like animals.
Burned alive, buried alive, massacred with hand granades&flamethrowers while hiding in basements.

That is funny, the real issue is that the Germans fought the Soviets tooth and nail right to the finish, while most germans treated the western allies like liberators as the best alternative to being occupied.

If the German people wanted to be treated better then they should have surrendered.

How many soviet soldiers died taking Berlin... if you want to fight to the end then you should be prepared to be killed.

And perhaps you could say slaughtered like Germans killing soviets...

So if we have a pictures like that, facts like that, and history like that - think twice if you do more good or bad with childish denial strategy.

So it wasn't the fault of German soldiers... it was those bad ethinic minorities they had in their ranks later in the war... germans are nice people...  

And then you mention the atrocities in the eastern front were on a different scale... so why would the personal animosity be on a different scale too.

Still waiting for figures for the mass rapes claimed on the eastern front by Soviet soldiers.

2 million abortions is nothing... they could be with anyone and no evidence of rapes... unless the rapes continued into the 1960s...

Funny how some East Germans are nostalgic for the Cold war if they were all rapists...[/quote]

I agree, very insensitive of me to have said what I said, but equally I say some terribly things about Lend Lease too because of the lies regarding that aspect of the war.

It is interesting how much the respect and relief of having the Soviets on "our" side has been transformed over the years to equating the Soviets to the Nazis and blaming them for the start of the war in the west.... but then people in the west don't know when to shut the **** up either and talk about winter and lend lease and d day being major factors in the war, or in this case rampant raping by the Soviets but somehow the Germans and Japanese were too racist to rape their Soviet and Chinese captives respectively.

The amusing thing is that you confuse rape with sex... rape is an act of violence... it is actually easier to justify if you are raping someone who is not your equal, but obviously realising offspring are a possibility because the "lower" races are a problem because of their prodigious ability to spawn like vermin, any rape would be followed by murder to prevent potential half breeds being created.

The fact that your grandmother was raped is of course disgusting, and my comments crude and inappropriate, but the reaction your grandmother got from the local authorities suggests the opposite of what you are claiming... as I said... a nazi officer would have raped her himself if she was a Soviet woman complaining about rape and they likely would have handed her around to those present before shooting her when they were done... because she would be an untermension.... a cheap ride.... a one off amusement... there would certainly be no penalty for any German soldier accused of rape.

The fact that the accused rapist was shot without trial suggests they were rather harsh on rapists... and obviously because they knew they were going to be an occupation force likely outnumbered by the local population by a large margin and they didn't want unrest and chaos.

the fact that they did not lose millions more troops after the war ended suggests the rapists were not as prolific as you are suggesting, or western propaganda are suggesting... but that is nothing new.

War is serious business and it is hardly for us to judge what people did in such times to survive, but the rapist Soviet army is a western created myth.

The difference between a woman surviving and a woman being raped is essentially consent... I doubt the women having sex with American and British soldiers enjoyed themselves... some perhaps hoping they might fall in love or get pregnant and be taken away from this hell and rubble, or maybe they were just hungry... the bias of the locals means one is called rape and the other is not, yet both might be violent and unwanted... of course they would want the chocolate for less than having sex... they have honour and decency cultural rules too... shame their men didn't show the same culture in the Soviet Union but there you go.

If Germany wanted to be treated better, they could easily have just immediately surrendered and not killed millions more Soviet troops who died taking Berlin.... they kept fighting so more soviets died... did they expect a cookie and to be treated well after that?

The Germans entered the Soviet Union claiming the Soviets had not signed all sorts of agreements on war and so they did not follow such rules regarding Soviet Prisoners or soviets in occupied areas... to complain that the Soviets did not act properly in Germany is, to put it mildly, amusing.

I agree that the issue is the blood libel lie about 2 million rapes. Since the Red Army severely punished law breakers, rape by deviants is
not the issue. As was already harped on above, rapes happen in war. That applies to the precious western "allies".

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demographics_of_Germany

Population of Germany in 1940: 70.7 million.
Population of Germany in 1950: 69.3 million.

Hmm. Where are the 5.3 million dead soldiers and around half a million civilians who died from air raids?
I can only think of Sudetenland Germans as being extra-territorial but not in 1940. There was a big ethnic
cleansing of Germans from former Prussia and western Poland and other locations as well, but these would
have been part of Germany in 1940.

How many Germans did the Red army burn alive like the German army burned in Khatyn? That atrocity was "justified"
based on the death of a single German occupant at the hands of the partisan resistance. This pattern of German Nazi
retribution was typical everywhere they went including in Czechoslovakia.

BTW, do a Google search on this topic and see what you can find. Not any relevant links without lots of effort.

The 2 million rapes lie is a pathetic attempt to offset the real German atrocities in the east. The Soviets never
reached the degeneracy of the German Nazis in their vicious "punishment" of people in occupied lands. Anyone trying
to dance around this is a total scumbag.

The German common people deserve to have three meal a day and to be treated with the basic human dignity. Being German and being Nazi are two completely different things. Most of the Germans were common people being brainwashed at different levels, some were antifacists, even some were hardline communists like Ernst Thalmann.

What they deserved is not in question, but the people of the Soviet Union deserved to have three meals a day and to be treated with decent human dignity, but after the German war machine and her allies had obliterated most of the western most european part of the Soviet Union and initiated a scorched earth policy in retreat destroying crops and destroying farm stock and shooting people in their way, how much food they actually got would probably be down to what was available and whether it could be distributed properly, but then at this time Soviet cities were in ruins too and also needed to be rebuilt, seed planted and livestock replaced.

Many who stayed behind and did not run away from the advancing Soviets were unable to run...

It is an utterly nonsense if one common German woman should be raped simply because she has the same nationality as a certain war criminal who are living luxuriously under the protection of Western governments or South American governments, sometimes because he is a useful tool for anti-communist activities...

Germany as a country destroyed the Soviet Union and killed millions of people... one German woman might not have contributed much to that, but she is hardly the only innocent victim of that war.

I would say the Germans got away very lightly for what they did, but I would also say that the situation of WWII was created by the western actions and reactions to the end of WWI... Germany was essentially blamed for everything that happened during WWI when it was no more their fault than it was France or the UK or Russia or the Americans, but they were punished like they created the whole situation and had all of their colonies around the world stolen from them by either Europe or the US... or New Zealand...

Ironically it was the western powers that punished Germany and it was Russia that Germany did the most damage in the war Germany started.

I know the myth of "Soviet rapists" is a completely bullshit propaganda from the West, I just do not agree with the revenge-rape argument.

I am not suggesting her rape was anything but a serious crime, but the Soviet Army/Government response to that accusation of rape clearly showed such things were not accepted by the Soviets and were dealt with immediately in the field... no court-martial, no hearing, no tribunal... executed on the spot... something the Germans would have never even considered in occupied Kiev.

Advocating that there was no rape issue while having materials like that only, combined with the STAVKA direct orders to discipline the troops because it affected the morale and health (veneral diseases spreading as a fire) - is unbelievably stupid.

Of course... in three days these Soviet forces outdid the German forces in the Soviet Union for four years... obviously it would be the Soviet forces you call rapists...

And of course being a woman she would not exaggerate such an issue at all.

Something on pair to the Russian occupied zone would be the French one. The French had a terrible reputation, described in their own memories&documents, and some British ones.
It was Stuttgart particularly "famous" for that matter, as there was a place where some colonial troops were stationed.
And they had a record no better than the Soviets.
But the French have no excuse other than destroyed ego.

Funny that you call the Soviets an army of rapists but don't mention the French Army as being just as bad... almost like a bias against the Soviets really...

Because it is the Soviet transgressions that are repeated and emphasised and western army transgressions forgotten or ignored.

How many Germans did the Red army burn alive like the German army burned in Khatyn? That atrocity was "justified"
based on the death of a single German occupant at the hands of the partisan resistance. This pattern of German Nazi
retribution was typical everywhere they went including in Czechoslovakia.

Indeed, how many German villages were the villagers strapped to beds and completely drained of blood and then thrown into pits they had to dig themselves previously... many not quite dead to make sure there was enough blood for the needs of injured Soviet troops?

Would be pretty sure those villagers would prefer to be raped instead.

Mother Russia needs no enemies, having defenders like you.

Don't take it personally, but I come from the west and I have seen the part played by the Soviets in the defeat of Germany diminished and even ignored in the west, while the role played by the west emphasised and overstated to the point where you wonder why they cooperated with Stalin in the first place...

Since their aviation industry is able to deliver so many new aircraft, it is not in bad shape yet. Worse with the shipbuilding industry.

The cost of delivering those faulty fighters and those carrier groups that have no answer to an air launched Iskander missile is what is destroying the US economically... eventually they are going to have to face facts and realise those debts are not going to pay themselves and that they are going to have to make some serious austerity measures most of the rest of the west has been having to do... but most of the rest of the west has been cutting their military and the US has been complaining about that bitterly... but that is the first thing they are going to have to cut and a lot of those US bases around the world are going to have to be shut down... they are going to go through something similar to what Russia went through during the 1990s when their enormous military was a drain on their economy even just maintenance and wages/pensions...

Wonder if they might try to revise HATO so that the worlds oceans are split up and instead of the 7 US fleets keeping the world safe they cut it down to two or three fleets to protect US waters and the Arctic ocean and HATO had to step up to help patrol the rest...

It is something the UK did and France and Russia in a sense... there is not reason why the US can't do for itself what Putin did for Russia, but those 1% have to stop being such selfish and start thinking about all Americans and maybe they will have a chance... they will struggle to regain markets where they were not very nice, but then a bit of humble pie never hurt anyone in the long run... it would actually be good for them I think...

But then again it might never happen... push the nuke button and take everyone with them...

Getting back to the 2 million rapes blood libel. So the total civilian death toll in Germany was half a million for the whole war.
Where are the mass atrocities by the Soviets? The vast majority of those deaths were due to allied bombing raids. The
rape tin foil conspiracy theory would have you believe that Russians worked over 2 million German women but barely contributed
to any German civilian deaths.

Western Russophobia is sick to an extreme degree. The USSR lost 18 million civilians at the hands of the Nazi German invaders
but Germany did not even have a single massacre at the hands of Soviet soldiers and the vast majority of its civilian deaths
were from western bombing runs. So we have a civilian death ratio of 18/0.1 = 180. There are lots of estimates of German
civilian losses due to expulsion but these are not Soviet actions but the actions of Poles, etc. The Red Army was not slaughtering
German refugees.

It is clear that the 2 million rapes story is a propaganda ploy. It attempts to create an atrocity on a mass scale without any
dead bodies. Rape is the obvious choice. People also have this bizarre notion that rape is like murder. Poor little women
who cannot live their lives after being dicked. Strong and independent.

In Kiev: Preliminary preparations have begun for dismantling the Soviet coat of arms from the shield of the Motherland sculpture

https://en.topwar.ru/189794-v-kieve-nachata-predvaritelnaja-podgotovka-po-demontazhu-sovetskogo-gerba-so-schita-skulptury-rodina-mat.html

The problem is that you are claiming a rape rampage but your grandmother was raped once...

If she was a Soviet soldier in the Soviet Army and she was captured she would have been shot... even in a Soviet Uniform, from a Soviet unit... and it wasn't a nazi thing or an extremist thing that only occasionally happened... it was how the German armed forces treated female Soviet soldiers...