2020 Nagorno-Karabakh war #1

nero wrote:Russia's latest actions in Syria, Libya and Armenia are very lackluster and do not inspire good confidence in their ability to do much at all, except to form meaningless ceasefires that will be broken at the convenience of the enemy.

I understand that reality is often much more complicated than that, though for Turkey the reality is that the Russians have done exactly fuck all in these countries to deter Turkish aggression. The results of which we can see today in Armenia.

In addition to this, Turkey has sent over 15 convoys to Idlib in the last few days - with increased rebel activity it is quite likely that they are going to open up a new front here and attack the Syrian Arab Army, possibly to push them back from the M5 highway.

The clock is ticking and the opportunity for actual determent of Turkish aggression is going away. When they attack, it will be too late to start sending Il-76's/An-124's to Syria or Armenia. Past mistakes from Georgia and Yugoslavia will be repeated.

Putin has done well to bring the country back from the brink of economic collapse though he really needs to leave his position to someone younger and with more character.

Russia's actions have always been adequate and in line with their overall strategic goals for the region. Too much has been made of how passive their responses were but they are not the ones who have spent blood, treasure, and political capital with not much to show for it. If Turkey wishes to continue pissing away her very limited resources why shouldn't the Russians oblige them? As Napoleon said, "never interrupt your enemy while he is making a mistake" - and the Russians have certainly taken that page of his book to heart.

And they've sent a convoy - who cares? The Idlib Jihadis are a spent force. They can't even muster the strength to resist the SAA and their last counter-offensive made with the support of the Turkish drone fleet ended with much of that fleet wrecked and the SAA advancing to the M5. They've even turned to exporting jihadis en masse, sapping Idlib and North Syria of valuable manpower. They have never been as much of a joke as they are now.

@ F.P.
There are already a lot russian volunteer on site. Arrived organized...This time it's not Wagner 
Greetings from belgrade

Azeri T-72 shot by Armenian ATGM

cheesfactory wrote:@ F.P.
There are already a lot  russian volunteer on site. Arrived organized...This time it's not Wagner 
Greetings from belgrade

Glad to see you still kicking around

The aftermath of the Armenian feigned retreat:
Graphic Warning: https://t.me/hay_mitq/811
Geez. One guy got his face melted right off. Modern warfare is hell on earth.

miketheterrible wrote:

kvs wrote:

miketheterrible wrote:Thing is, these natives are rather a minority. Count ethnic Russians vs others and you will find, excluding the north caucuses areas, the rest are majority Russian.

They are minority thanks to European diseases and the fact that they were physically exterminated by the US army and all the irregulars settling down in the "wild frontier".
It is popular to demonize US aboriginals for taking scalps of poor little settlers, but the fact is that those settlers would kill aboriginals much like they would
kill coyotes and other unwanted animals.  

The US signed many treaties with the indigenous peoples and then tore them all up.   So there was plenty of ethnic cleansing and driving onto reservation ghettos.  
Population density is not an argument since European squatters in the new world were a minority originally.

I'm talking about Russia's other regions.  Not north america.

So what? At least in Russia they have not been ethnically cleansed. So citing that Russians can be a local majority here and there does not make
any of my points moot. NATzO has established that it will recognize internal republics and pseudo-republics like Kosovo. As with Crimea, it will
ignore that there is a local Russian majority.

lyle6 wrote:The aftermath of the Armenian feigned retreat:
Graphic Warning: https://t.me/hay_mitq/811
Geez. One guy got his face melted right off. Modern warfare is hell on earth.

Are the echo chamber sound effects some sort of vanity shtick for the clown who shot this video? God how annoying.

During WWII plenty of soldiers had their meta burned off their bones. Nothing particularly modern about unless we compare
to the early 1800s.

lyle6 wrote:

nero wrote:Russia's latest actions in Syria, Libya and Armenia are very lackluster and do not inspire good confidence in their ability to do much at all, except to form meaningless ceasefires that will be broken at the convenience of the enemy.

I understand that reality is often much more complicated than that, though for Turkey the reality is that the Russians have done exactly fuck all in these countries to deter Turkish aggression. The results of which we can see today in Armenia.

In addition to this, Turkey has sent over 15 convoys to Idlib in the last few days - with increased rebel activity it is quite likely that they are going to open up a new front here and attack the Syrian Arab Army, possibly to push them back from the M5 highway.

The clock is ticking and the opportunity for actual determent of Turkish aggression is going away. When they attack, it will be too late to start sending Il-76's/An-124's to Syria or Armenia. Past mistakes from Georgia and Yugoslavia will be repeated.

Putin has done well to bring the country back from the brink of economic collapse though he really needs to leave his position to someone younger and with more character.

Russia's actions have always been adequate and in line with their overall strategic goals for the region. Too much has been made of how passive their responses were but they are not the ones who have spent blood, treasure, and political capital with not much to show for it. If Turkey wishes to continue pissing away her very limited resources why shouldn't the Russians oblige them? As Napoleon said, "never interrupt your enemy while he is making a mistake" - and the Russians have certainly taken that page of his book to heart.

And they've sent a convoy - who cares? The Idlib Jihadis are a spent force. They can't even muster the strength to resist the SAA and their last counter-offensive made with the support of the Turkish drone fleet ended with much of that fleet wrecked and the SAA advancing to the M5. They've even turned to exporting jihadis en masse, sapping Idlib and North Syria of valuable manpower. They have never been as much of a joke as they are now.

This conflict is a NATzO provocation and Russia cannot take the bait. The timing just before the US elections is way too convenient. It's not like they couldn't have engaged
in this BS last year.

Tai Hai Chen wrote:There you go. From now on Turkey can't make another TB2.

Your sources never cease to amaze me. How on earth did you find someone in the stock control department to tell you that they had no engines left?

Back in the real world, they could have 100 in stock ready to go into new production TB-2.

https://twitter.com/I30mki/status/1313173823886221312

JohninMK wrote:

Tai Hai Chen wrote:There you go. From now on Turkey can't make another TB2.

Your sources never cease to amaze me. How on earth did you find someone in the stock control department to tell you that they had no engines left?

Back in the real world, they could have 100 in stock ready to go into new production TB-2.

Erdogan is dictator and Bayrakthar is owned by his son in law and the workers there are slaves. Nevertheless, Turkey has no technology to make EO. So no TB2.

Say bye bye TB2. No more western technology available for Turks.

https://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/canada-turkey-drone-azerbaijan-armenia-1.5751266

JohninMK wrote:Meanwhile, cutting out the middleman...............




Yörük Işık
@YorukIsik
·
9h
Top Russian VIP. (Not Lavrov. He is in Moscow)  Russian Government Russian Presidential Fleet
IL96 300PU RA96019 climbs out of Yerevan Zvartnots and is fiying directly west, —likely to Ankara Esenboğa (?). Russian diplomacy in action.

kvs wrote:This conflict is a NATzO provocation and Russia cannot take the bait.   The timing just before the US elections is way too convenient.   It's not like they couldn't have engaged
in this BS last year.

Rob Lee
@RALee85
Replying to
@RALee85
643/
Quote Tweet

Cavid ⛧
@cavidaga
· 11h
Watching Aliyev's interview with TRT Haber, says: "Russia responds to recent events as a very responsible and great country. Positive messages are coming from Russia. It behaves without taking anyone's side. However, Armenia had high hopes for it. "

Russia deftly managing the situation through behind the scenes diplomacy is a great sign that the Russians are on top of their game and will not be so easily baited into reacting hastily without thoroughly considering the dynamics at play and associated costs/risks.

Democratic city Los Angeles blasts Turkey and Azerbaijan for invasion against Armenia. Notice California is one of the US states that recognized Nagorno Karabakh.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j9jO60pWzPs

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_1-69tb21z4

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sH6TU9mNwBI

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6eAVs7fjUFM

kvs wrote:

miketheterrible wrote:

kvs wrote:

miketheterrible wrote:Thing is, these natives are rather a minority. Count ethnic Russians vs others and you will find, excluding the north caucuses areas, the rest are majority Russian.

They are minority thanks to European diseases and the fact that they were physically exterminated by the US army and all the irregulars settling down in the "wild frontier".
It is popular to demonize US aboriginals for taking scalps of poor little settlers, but the fact is that those settlers would kill aboriginals much like they would
kill coyotes and other unwanted animals.  

The US signed many treaties with the indigenous peoples and then tore them all up.   So there was plenty of ethnic cleansing and driving onto reservation ghettos.  
Population density is not an argument since European squatters in the new world were a minority originally.

I'm talking about Russia's other regions.  Not north america.

So what?  At least in Russia they have not been ethnically cleansed.   So citing that Russians can be a local majority here and there does not make
any of my points moot.   NATzO has established that it will recognize internal republics and pseudo-republics like Kosovo.   As with Crimea, it will
ignore that there is a local Russian majority.

No, what I'm saying is that even though the Russians have more or less gave autonomy to these regions, majority of population are Russian. Nothing to do with ethnic cleansing but more to do with migration and more specific - interracial marriage. Since you are also Canadian, you must have heard the natives stories of Blond Hair blue eyed natives? These were natives who intermingled with Russians.

Putin sold northern Syria to Erdogan for an S-400 deal. There is no reason to not expect Putin sell Armenia to Erdogan for another S-400 deal.

The US tried to overthrow Erdogan in a coup and failed and so Erdogan felt unsafe, so to improve air defences he bought the best system available on the market.

Northern Syria was never Putins to sell.

Erdogan will not stay in power forever... it is up to Armenia.... Libya looked to the west.... Syria looked to the west... Iran looked to the west... Ukraine looked to the west... Georgia looked to the west... Belarus looked to the west... all got burned to some degree... for Libya it was fatal and for Syria very close to fatal.

Russia can't tell Armenia what they have to do but I personally don't think accepting Azeri aggression to seize lands by military force is ever a good idea.

That is an occupied region, if Armenia is so worried about a genocide they can move people into Armenia.

It is where they live. They can choose to leave, or they can choose to fight... whichever they choose genocide is not acceptable to any rational government... unless you think what the nazis did was OK and justified?

Moscow has made it clear they will not help Armenia over land even they consider occupied.

Must be amazing to be included in such phone calls...

It doesn't matter if Russia helps Armenia or not. If Russia does not help, America or Iran will step in, Russia will lose another ally in the region.

If you look at the map above your comment you will notice to get to Armenia Russia would have to go through Azeri land or Iranian or Turkish or Georgian...

And Armenia haven't made clear what they want Russia to do.

You can imagine. Having only 10 allies left in the world, Russia can't afford to lose Armenia to Turkey and Azerbaijan.

You are right... Russia should immediately launch a nuclear strike on all of the countries that didn't vote for them... the best defence is a good attack.

Hmm. This looks oddly familiar with this posting history style - Spamming the shit out of a thread.

Actually if you opened some of those posts you will see he is repeating entire posts including multiple members posts too.

Prussia aka the German Empire was abolished by the allies after WW1, Prussia is Germany in this case, Kaliningrad however even during WW2 was part of Germany. The Allies basically took Poland away from them for losing the war and made them abloish the Empire but they were allowed to keep the current lands Germany has.

My understanding is that the Soviets actually offered to give it back and Germany at the time was not interested.

Putin has done well to bring the country back from the brink of economic collapse though he really needs to leave his position to someone younger and with more character.

Yeah, Russia and Armenia need a hot headed young idiot in charge of Russia... that will make things right... Russia should do in NK what HATO did in Kosovo, because things are damn perfect there at the moment are they not?

Lots of bullshit speculation about what Russia is or is not going to do... complaints that Russia hasn't rolled in like the US did in Georgia in 2008... except the US did fuck all to help Georgia in that conflict despite using Georgian cannon fodder in the Middle East a few years prior to that...

And they've sent a convoy - who cares? The Idlib Jihadis are a spent force. They can't even muster the strength to resist the SAA and their last counter-offensive made with the support of the Turkish drone fleet ended with much of that fleet wrecked and the SAA advancing to the M5. They've even turned to exporting jihadis en masse, sapping Idlib and North Syria of valuable manpower. They have never been as much of a joke as they are now.

I think it would be better all round if Georgia had let them through and Armenia had tested her S-300s on the plane... it would be the quickest and most efficient way to get those martyrs to their 72 virgins....

@Tai Hai Chen,

I spoke to you before about flooding threads with one line posts and about reposting multiple members posts in your replies, but you did not listen.

I am giving you a four day break from the forum to think about what I have said. If you don't understand or need a chat about what the problem is by all means send me a private message when you can post again in four days time.

Just a quick click on your username and choose to see all your posts shows you posted on this thread at 8:38, then again at 8:39, and at 8:41 with lots of previous posts included, 8:47 with previous posts included, 8:48 with previous posts included, and 8:50, and 8:53 with previous posts included.

As I suggested last time I spoke to you you can add comments by editing a previous comment and adding new information, or just wait until you have more than one comment to post...

You have four days to work this out...

To compare the Azeri's to the Nazi's is flat out idiotic.

The Azeri's aren't going in there to kill any Armenian they see simply because they are ethnic Armenian, they are going in there to reclaim land considered by the world community that belongs to them.

Hitlar didn't allow the jews to flee or leave, there is no comparison to what is going on here vs what the Third Reich did to the Jewish population.

To even suggest this shows how little you know of history and how deluded your thoughts are.

Do I care if Azeri takes the land back? not at all.

Do I believe they have a right to take their land back, why yes I do.

Armenian knew full well this was coming like I said if they want that land they will have to fight and defend on it on their own. That is the price you pay when you occupy other countries land.

It is a perfectly logical comparison and who is talking exclusively about jews here?

The Germans wanted living space but that land was already occupied. The fact that they killed more than 16 million civilians in their war in the east... were they all jews as well?

Did Georgia take extra special measures to ensure no South Ossetian civilians got hurt during their invasion?

The facts are that like the Nazis and the Georgians the Azeris want the land but not the current occupiers so genocide is something that would benefit their attack in their eyes.

The fact that the Armenians occupy the territory suggest they know how to fight... the fact that you think any group of people has the right to attack and take by force land they believe belongs to them is amusing... do the people on that territory have the right to fight back or just to die or retreat?

Maybe Russia should invade Georgia and Armenia and NK and Azeri territory and just reclaim it all for the Russian Federation?

I mean if might makes right...

SeigSoloyvov wrote:To compare the Azeri's to the Nazi's is flat out idiotic.

The Azeri's aren't going in there to kill any Armenian they see simply because they are ethnic Armenian, they are going in there to reclaim land considered by the world community that belongs to them.

Hitlar didn't allow the jews to flee or leave, there is no comparison to what is going on here vs what the Third Reich did to the Jewish population.

To even suggest this shows how little you know of history and how deluded your thoughts are.

Do I care if Azeri takes the land back? not at all.

Do I believe they have a right to take their land back, why yes I do.

Armenian knew full well this was coming like I said if they want that land they will have to fight and defend on it on their own. That is the price you pay when you occupy other countries land.

But not Nagorno Karabakh proper as that has always been Armenian...correct? Which of course is the root of the whole problem.

I find it funny in the way that America and its minions can be funny that they treat the borders of the Lenin, Trotsky and Stalin as sacrosanct.
They also have their cake and eat it too by recognizing both the sanctity of such borders and the right of places like Kosovo to secede.
Once again, the supposedly anti-commie west supports Tito's carve up of Serbia.

But when it comes to America and its treatment of aboriginals neither any border (as demarcated by the treaties they signed) nor
the people inhabiting the land matters.

So what we see is zero-principles opportunism from America and its minions. If they could, they would invade Russia and exterminate
every last Russian. The behaviour of the yanquis and their doggies clearly indicates genocidal intent.

franco wrote:

SeigSoloyvov wrote:To compare the Azeri's to the Nazi's is flat out idiotic.

The Azeri's aren't going in there to kill any Armenian they see simply because they are ethnic Armenian, they are going in there to reclaim land considered by the world community that belongs to them.

Hitlar didn't allow the jews to flee or leave, there is no comparison to what is going on here vs what the Third Reich did to the Jewish population.

To even suggest this shows how little you know of history and how deluded your thoughts are.

Do I care if Azeri takes the land back? not at all.

Do I believe they have a right to take their land back, why yes I do.

Armenian knew full well this was coming like I said if they want that land they will have to fight and defend on it on their own. That is the price you pay when you occupy other countries land.

But not Nagorno Karabakh proper as that has always been Armenian...correct? Which of course is the root of the whole problem.

NK was once Armenian and was settled by them yes however the land is considered by the world to belonging to Azeri, land changes with time. In this day and age having historical claim means nothing, That may seem cold-hearted but that's just the world works these days.

I am sorry but the excuse the land historical belongs them to just doesn't matter in this day and age and if that is a standard people want to go by on here, then I assume they support the Russians handing over land that historically belongs to others.

But I know they won't and don't simply put they are using the "It was historical Armenians" excuse to justify their desire for the land to remain in Armenian hands.

kvs wrote:I find it funny in the way that America and its minions can be funny that they treat the borders of the Lenin, Trotsky and Stalin as sacrosanct.
They also have their cake and eat it too by recognizing both the sanctity of such borders and the right of places like Kosovo to secede.  
Once again, the supposedly anti-commie west supports Tito's carve up of Serbia.    

But when it comes to America and its treatment of aboriginals neither any border (as demarcated by the treaties they signed) nor
the people inhabiting the land matters.  

So what we see is zero-principles opportunism from America and its minions.   If they could, they would invade Russia and exterminate
every last Russian.   The behaviour of the yanquis and their doggies clearly indicates genocidal intent.

Oh America does have land that historically belongs to other nations that still exist but I am not being hypocritical there.

My position is clear, I do not expect America to return any land just has I do not expect Russia to do that. Just like to me Azeri has a right to retake land that is recognized being the world as theirs and the whole "Land belonged to Armenia excuse" is meaningless.

Simply put in the 21st century having a historical claim to land no longer entitles you to it.

I unlike you am applying the same standard to all.