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    Su-30 for Russian Air Force #2

    franco
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    Post  franco Wed Aug 12, 2020 12:55 pm

    Shoigu announces contracts will be awarded for another 21 Su-30SM2 and 25 Yak-130's.

    «Мы приняли решение и подпишем в этом году дополнительно к имеющимся два государственных контракта на сумму более 100 млрд рублей, по которым будут построены 21 истребитель Су-30СМ2 и 25 учебно-боевых самолетов Як-130», — сказал глава военного ведомства.

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    LMFS
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    Post  LMFS Wed Aug 12, 2020 2:56 pm

    Hole wrote:"Under the name of the ROC "Adaptation-Su" there are several different programs for the creation of missiles for strike aircraft, Dmitry Kornev, editor of the militaryrussia portal, told Izvestia. These include work on the Kh-32, a modern modification of the rather old Kh-22 missile, which is used on the Tu-22M3 bomber. In addition, within the framework of these R&D projects, more modern hypersonic missiles, still secret, are being created."

    Read the paragraph again. Nobody claims that the Kh-32 will be used on the Su-30SM. The modernisation of the plane falls under the same programm as the modernisation or development of missiles. Like the Burevestnik program for the creation of new artillery systems.

    If the work on the Kh-32 is included in the Su program how they would not be related?

    Furthermore, from the original article:

    Russian Su-30SM fighters will receive a new heavy air-to-surface missile. The creation of the product is carried out within the framework of the experimental design work "Adaptation-Su". According to experts, we are talking about equipping the Sukhoi with the Kh-32 liquid hypersonic missile, which was previously used only on long-range Tu-22M3 bombers

    The Kh-32 is a powerful dual-use missile. It can be used as an anti-ship or for firing at targets with previously known coordinates, '' explained Dmitry Kornev. - To penetrate the protected hull of the ship, a HEAT warhead is used. Several of these missiles are capable of destroying an aircraft carrier. And one hit is enough to disable any ship of less class. If such ammunition is adapted for the Su-30SM, then any front-line aviation regiment will be able to use long-range cruise missiles with almost hypersonic speed. Potentially, "thirty" is capable of carrying one X-32 on the main suspension under the fuselage.

    In 2016, the Ministry of Defense announced the adoption of the X-32 into service with Tupolev bombers. The possibility of equipping fighters with these missiles was not previously reported.

    They are quite explicitly talking about Kh-32 for not meaning it will be carried by the Su Rolling Eyes

    franco wrote:Shoigu announces contracts will be awarded for another 21 Su-30SM2 and 25 Yak-130's.

    «Мы приняли решение и подпишем в этом году дополнительно к имеющимся два государственных контракта на сумму более 100 млрд рублей, по которым будут построены 21 истребитель Су-30СМ2 и 25 учебно-боевых самолетов Як-130», — сказал глава военного ведомства.

    SM2? Was not the modernized version supposed to be called SM1?
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    ult

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    Post  ult Wed Aug 12, 2020 4:47 pm

    LMFS wrote:SM2? Was not the modernized version supposed to be called SM1?

    Well, if we talk about Russian language SM2 makes more sense. Because it is implied that SM was already modernized version number 1.
    Hole
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    Post  Hole Wed Aug 12, 2020 8:57 pm

    LMFS wrote:
    Hole wrote:"Under the name of the ROC "Adaptation-Su" there are several different programs for the creation of missiles for strike aircraft, Dmitry Kornev, editor of the militaryrussia portal, told Izvestia. These include work on the Kh-32, a modern modification of the rather old Kh-22 missile, which is used on the Tu-22M3 bomber. In addition, within the framework of these R&D projects, more modern hypersonic missiles, still secret, are being created."

    Read the paragraph again. Nobody claims that the Kh-32 will be used on the Su-30SM. The modernisation of the plane falls under the same programm as the modernisation or development of missiles. Like the Burevestnik program for the creation of new artillery systems.

    If the work on the Kh-32 is included in the Su program how they would not be related?

    Furthermore, from the original article:

    Russian Su-30SM fighters will receive a new heavy air-to-surface missile. The creation of the product is carried out within the framework of the experimental design work "Adaptation-Su". According to experts, we are talking about equipping the Sukhoi with the Kh-32 liquid hypersonic missile, which was previously used only on long-range Tu-22M3 bombers

    The Kh-32 is a powerful dual-use missile. It can be used as an anti-ship or for firing at targets with previously known coordinates, '' explained Dmitry Kornev. - To penetrate the protected hull of the ship, a HEAT warhead is used. Several of these missiles are capable of destroying an aircraft carrier. And one hit is enough to disable any ship of less class. If such ammunition is adapted for the Su-30SM, then any front-line aviation regiment will be able to use long-range cruise missiles with almost hypersonic speed. Potentially, "thirty" is capable of carrying one X-32 on the main suspension under the fuselage.

    In 2016, the Ministry of Defense announced the adoption of the X-32 into service with Tupolev bombers. The possibility of equipping fighters with these missiles was not previously reported.

    They are quite explicitly talking about Kh-32 for not meaning it will be carried by the Su Rolling Eyes

    franco wrote:Shoigu announces contracts will be awarded for another 21 Su-30SM2 and 25 Yak-130's.

    «Мы приняли решение и подпишем в этом году дополнительно к имеющимся два государственных контракта на сумму более 100 млрд рублей, по которым будут построены 21 истребитель Су-30СМ2 и 25 учебно-боевых самолетов Як-130», — сказал глава военного ведомства.

    SM2? Was not the modernized version supposed to be called SM1?

    unshaven unshaven unshaven

    Then it must be a modification of the Kh-32, a sort of Kh-32 light.

    Isn´t SM1 the designation for the modernisation of the Su-30SM?
    LMFS
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    Post  LMFS Wed Aug 12, 2020 11:16 pm

    Hole wrote:Then it must be a modification of the Kh-32, a sort of Kh-32 light.

    Yeah that would make sense. The seeker technology, ECCM and other would be of application, they are supposed to be very good in the Kh-32. But it would be more practical to make a smaller missile with solid fuel...

    Isn´t SM1 the designation for the modernisation of the Su-30SM?

    This may be like the Tu-160M and M2 polemic... I will not bother trying to understand until I see the thing delivered, then we will know for sure the name dunno
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    Post  mnztr Thu Aug 13, 2020 1:36 am

    Hole wrote:

    Then it must be a modification of the Kh-32, a sort of Kh-32 light.

    Isn´t SM1 the designation for the modernisation of the Su-30SM?

    Why does it need to be a light version? the missile weighs 6T, should well within the capability of the SU-30. But I thought the SU-34 would be a more suitable platform with 10T of payload.
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    Post  marcellogo Thu Aug 13, 2020 6:34 am

    LMFS wrote:

    SM2? Was not the modernized version supposed to be called SM1?

    Not. S stand for Serial produced, SM stand for Serial Modernized, SM2 stand for Serial 2 modernization, SM3,4 etc stand for the successive modifications.
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    Post  marcellogo Thu Aug 13, 2020 6:42 am

    mnztr wrote:
    Hole wrote:

    Then it must be a modification of the Kh-32, a sort of Kh-32 light.

    Isn´t SM1 the designation for the modernisation of the Su-30SM?

    Why does it need to be a light version? the missile weighs 6T, should well within the capability of the SU-30. But I thought the SU-34 would be a more suitable platform with 10T of payload.

    Yes, in theory it would be but the kh32 is an anti ship missile and Russian Fleet has not ordered Su-34 but Su-30SM instead.
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    Post  LMFS Thu Aug 13, 2020 12:17 pm

    marcellogo wrote:Not. S stand for Serial produced, SM stand for Serial Modernized, SM2 stand for Serial 2 modernization, SM3,4 etc stand for the successive modifications.

    It is not always like that, sometimes there are M, M1 and M2 versions (like Tu-22) or no M but M1... but in any case, the SM1 version was mentioned several times, and in the end it was not delivered as thought (last year there were no Su-30 deliveries to the VKS)

    https://iz.ru/618050/dmitrii-litovkin-aleksei-ramm/tridtcatka-vyshla-na-sleduiushchii-uroven
    https://iz.ru/905526/roman-kretcul-aleksei-ramm-aleksei-kozachenko/povedenie-s-motorom-super-sukhie-smogut-letat-kak-vertolety

    I am starting to think they decided to further evolve an import substitution, avionics update and weapons compatibility update with radar + engine and maybe other elements and create a SM2 version, skipping the SM1 that was mentioned before.

    https://tass.com/defense/988986

    The best would be to know the internal denomination of the technical projects, but without that information we have to rely on journos...

    Yes, in theory it would be but the kh32 is an anti ship missile and Russian Fleet has not ordered Su-34 but Su-30SM instead.

    Maybe it is not widely known, but is planed to buy Su-34 for the VMF too:

    iz.ru/893628/2019-06-27/noveishie-su-34-budut-patrulirovat-severnyi-morskoi-put

    In any case the discussion about the Kh-32 in the Sukhois is absurd IMO. The Indians had to reinforce the structure of the MKI to carry 2.5 t Brahmos, Kh-32 is 6 t, and way too big in every dimension.
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    Post  George1 Thu Aug 13, 2020 2:19 pm

    From old contracts i think there are 2 aircrafts left to be delivered (intended for Naval Aviation)
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    Post  GarryB Thu Aug 13, 2020 2:26 pm

    The Kh-22M and Tu-22M Backfire are heavy strike aircraft and the missile came in various models for strike roles including passive radar homing for ARM use, and of course to hit fixed targets like command centres or HQs or large radar or SAM sites.

    The model that hits fixed locations usually had an 800Kt nuclear warhead even though accuracy was pretty good for large targets a conventional warhead just wont get the job done.

    The passive radar homing (ie anti radar) as well as an active radar homing for large objects like bridges and ships as well as the nuclear armed inertial guided missile with the nuke warhead were all used for land attack and also at sea against Naval targets

    Externally the Kh-32 looks the same as the Kh-22M the difference is the Kh-32 has more powerful rocket motors (it has two... a high thrust motor for climbing and accelerating and a low thrust one for cruising at high altitude on its way to the target...).
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    Post  medo Thu Aug 27, 2020 8:52 pm

    https://bmpd.livejournal.com/4124973.html

    Заместитель министра обороны России Алексей Криворучко и глава ОАК Юрий Слюсарь подписали договор на поставку бомбардировщиков Су-34, истребителей Су-35 и Су-30СМ2 для Воздушно-космических сил (ВКС) России, истребителей Су-30СМ2 для Военно-морского флота (ВМФ), учебно-боевых самолётов Як-130 и тяжёлых военных транспортников Ил-76МД-90А.

    UPD: Согласно информации газеты "Ведомости", подписанные контракты охватывают 30 истребителей Су-35С, 24 бомбардировщика Су-34, 25 учебных самолетов Як-130 и 20 DA-42Т, 14 военно-транспортных Ил-76МД-90А и два Ил-112В для ВКС и 21 истребитель Су-30СМ2 для морской авиации.

    It is interesting, that Russian MoD sign contract for Su-34, SU-35 and Su-30SM2 for RuAF (VKS) and Su-30SM2 for RuNAVY (VMF). But when they write about numbers, they wrote 30 Su-35 and 24 Su-34 for RuAF and 21 Su-30SM2 for RuNAVY. Is there any information how many Su-30SM2 were contracted for RuAF?
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    Post  AJ-47 Sun Sep 06, 2020 5:07 am

    "Already half a thousand sold abroad": the US press on the supply of the Su-30
    https://en.topwar.ru/174811-uzhe-poltysjachi-prodano-za-rubezh-pressa-ssha-o-postavkah-istrebitelja-su-30.html

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    Post  LMFS Tue Sep 08, 2020 1:30 am

    The Su-30SM2 will make its first flight with the AL-41F-1S this year:

    https://iz.ru/1057928/anton-lavrov-roman-kretcul/priliv-sily-do-kontca-goda-su-30sm2-vzletit-s-novym-dvigatelem

    Also details about the denomination (SM2 vs. SM1), technical characteristics etc.
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    Post  medo Tue Sep 08, 2020 9:58 pm

    http://bastion-karpenko.ru/su-30sm-mod/

    Газета «Известия» сообщает, что до конца 2020 года совершит первый полет модернизированный истребитель Су-30СМ2 с двигателем АЛ-41Ф-1С, этот самолет в СМИ окрестили как «Супер-Сухой».
    Кроме двигателей обновленная версия Су-30СМ получит доработанную бортовую электронику, включая РЛС, оптико-локационную станцию, будет расширена номенклатура авиационных средств поражения (АСП) класса «воздух–воздух» и «воздух–земля».
    Известно, что с 2015 года ведется ОКР «Адаптация-Су» по увеличению боевых возможностей и замещению иностранных комплектующих на отечественные истребителей типа Су-30СМ.
    Первоначально планировалось усилить вооружение и изменить состав авионики. В таком виде самолет получил обозначение Су-30СМ1.
    В 2018 году стало известно о поручении президента России максимально унифицировать Су-30СМ и Су-35С в том числе и двигателю. И ОКБ Сухого сразу приступило к опытно-конструкторским работам (ОКР) по созданию модернизированного истребителя под шифром Су-30СМД.
    Была информация в СМИ, что истребитель Су-30СМ в ходе модернизации получит дополнительные технические средства многоканальной системы связи и передачи данных ОСНОД (объединенная система связи, обмена данными, навигации и опознавания) от истребителя пятого поколения Су-57.
    Доработанный самолет Су-30СМ с двигателем АЛ-41Ф-1С и более мощной РЛС «Ирбис» вместо нынешнего «Барса» получил обозначение Су-30СМ2, информируют «Известия». На облик нового многоцелевого истребителя большое влияние оказали боевые действия в Сирии, где самолеты Су-30СМ активно использовались в борьбе с ИГИЛ, выполняли другие задачи с самого начала операции ВКС с 2015 года, дополняет ВТС «Бастион».

    The Izvestia newspaper reports that the upgraded Su-30SM2 fighter with the AL-41F-1C engine will make its maiden flight by the end of 2020, this aircraft was dubbed in the media as the “Super-Sukhoi”.
    In addition to engines, the updated version of the Su-30SM will receive modified on-board electronics, including a radar, an optical-location station, and the range of air-to-air and air-to-ground aircraft weapons will be expanded.
    It is known that since 2015, the "Adaptation-Su" R&D project has been underway to increase combat capabilities and replace foreign components with domestic fighters of the Su-30SM type.
    Initially, it was planned to strengthen the armament and change the composition of the avionics. In this form, the aircraft received the designation Su-30SM1.
    In 2018, it became known about the order of the President of Russia to unify the Su-30SM and Su-35S as much as possible, including the engine. And the Sukhoi Design Bureau immediately began experimental design work (ROC) to create a modernized fighter under the code Su-30SMD.
    There was information in the media that the Su-30SM fighter, in the course of modernization, will receive additional technical means of a multi-channel communication and data transmission system OSNOD (unified communication, data exchange, navigation and identification system) from the fifth generation Su-57 fighter.
    The modified Su-30SM aircraft with an AL-41F-1S engine and a more powerful Irbis radar instead of the current Bars received the designation Su-30SM2, Izvestia informs. The appearance of the new multipurpose fighter was greatly influenced by the hostilities in Syria, where Su-30SM aircraft were actively used in the fight against ISIS, performed other tasks from the very beginning of the Aerospace Forces operation in 2015, the Bastion military technical cooperation adds.

    Now, it is more clear. Su-30SM1 was meant to upgrade existing Bars-R radar and to replace imported components with domestic ones. But later it was decided, that Su-30SM should become upgraded to the level of Su-35, which become Su-30SM2. It will get new AL-41F-1C engines from Su-35 with 142 kN of trust with afterburner and lower fuel consumption, radar Irbis and most probably OLS-35 IRST. We will see, if it will also get MAWS detectors and laser warning receivers from Su-35. It is interstind, that SU-30SM2 will get communication and data link network complex OSNOD from Su-57. New more powerful engines and Irbis radar will keep Su-30SM2 still on the top between fighters for quite a long time and a very capable fighter bomber, if it also get proper targeting pod. Instalation of OSNOD complex from Su-57 is quite a clear indication, that Su-30SM will also serve as command post, where WSO will also be a group commander to command and control air operations. We have to wait for Su-34M to see, what its modernization will bring. With similar communication complex as OSNOD, both could be equally effective command posts for group networking. But they could divide roles in RuAF. Su-34 will control strike groups and Su-30SM2 air defense groups.
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    Post  Isos Tue Sep 08, 2020 10:02 pm

    But later it was decided, that Su-30SM should become upgraded to the level of Su-35

    That should have been decided like in 2012 when they introduced su-35.

    Now I would even think they should use su-57 stuff but the radar is an aesa which doesn't bring anything really better to su-30 than Irbis and the engine is not ready. Plus they plan more su-35 so the jet will stay in service for a long time as they build it in the same time as su-57.
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    Post  medo Tue Sep 08, 2020 10:28 pm

    Su-30SM and Su-35 are both Flankers, so it is from construction and logistical point of view logical to use the same AL-41F1S engines and Irbis radars. Su-57 is new generation design and it would take far more time, redesigns and money for upgrade. Su-30SM was developed from export Su-30MKI/MKM to increase the number of new modern fighters in RuAF as Su-35 was still in development and have to go through its childhood diseases. In Syria both planes prove to be effective and decision to upgrade Su-30SM to Su-35 level is logical step further. They will also upgrade existing Su-30SM to Su-30SM2. Important is communication complex from Su-57 as it will enable it to effectively work in network with all RuAF jets. Irbis is very capable radar on its own and it have gimbaled radar antena which give him +/- 120o horizontal angle of view, together 240o. AESA radar have fixed antenna and it need additional side antennas for side view. Networking complex will enable Su-30SM2 WSO to share pictures with Su-57, Su-35, Su-34, etc and work as command and control post for them. Su-30SM2 will be practically mini AWACS.
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    Post  GarryB Wed Sep 09, 2020 6:03 am

    ...the Su-30 was originally intended as a mini AWACS, without air to ground function, but with these upgrades it should be able to function as a mini AWACS against air and ground targets because like AWACS its radar will detect and track both.

    Essentially it is a two seat Su-35.

    The real question is... which smaller fighters are supposed to support these mini AWACS planes... MiG-35s? Twisted Evil

    Plus they plan more su-35 so the jet will stay in service for a long time as they build it in the same time as su-57.

    Russia never had plans for all stealth fighter forces... the Su-57 was never supposed to replace all Flanker types (including the Su-34), just like the new MiG stealth fighter wont replace the MiGs and medium fighters either.
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    Post  medo Wed Sep 09, 2020 11:11 am

    GarryB wrote:...the Su-30 was originally intended as a mini AWACS, without air to ground function, but with these upgrades it should be able to function as a mini AWACS against air and ground targets because like AWACS its radar will detect and track both.

    Essentially it is a two seat Su-35.

    The real question is... which smaller fighters are supposed to support these mini AWACS planes... MiG-35s?   Twisted Evil

    Agree, this was original intention for creating Su-30. But capabilities of old N001 radar were still too weak. It got IFR for prolonged flying time and most probably improved IFDL. Su-30SM2 with Irbis radar and AL-41F1S engines is totaly different animal. Irbis have range of 400 km against 3m2 RCS targets and its horizontal angle of view is 240o, so it not only control frontal sector, but both sides as well, thans to gimbaled radar antenna. True, not full 360o as with real AWACS, but still 2/3 of the whole circle. OSNOD communication complex will enable with real time networking and sharing of combine pictures from airborn assets and well as from ground assets against air and ground/surface targets. This will be actually very big workload for WSO although there will be a big help from modern powerful computers. Such tasks could not be done by single seating Su-35 or Su-57. Of course, there will be flying command posts and AWACS planes A-50U and A-100, but Su-30SM2 and most probably Su-34M as well, will create real network with many lower tear command centers, which will made it far harder nut to break and it will not fall apart if 1 AWACS is shot down.

    I wander if F-15E in USAF is doing such job for F-15 and F-22 fighters. It have AESA radar, which is not gimbaled and could cover only frontal sector and is not as powerful as Irbis. Most probably they only share picture with each other through data link network, but command post is still only AWACS.
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    Post  GarryB Wed Sep 09, 2020 12:57 pm

    The improved radar for the Su-30 was never funded at the time of course, but this upgrade with Su-35s radar should fix that... along with new engines and communications systems.... and presumably the wing mounted L band AESA radars too... it should be rather good for detecting stealthy aircraft...
    magnumcromagnon
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    Post  magnumcromagnon Fri Nov 06, 2020 2:58 pm

    X marks the spot! Cool
    Su-30 for Russian Air Force #2 - Page 2 EmGe_-XVkAAsb-f?format=jpg&name=medium

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    JohninMK
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    Post  JohninMK Mon Nov 23, 2020 11:48 pm

    Not sure if this video has been linked to before, but just in case it hasn't.

    This here Su-30SM (I think) pilot was cruising along on a 'how slow can I go' airshow practice trip when bloody helicopters overtook him Smile

    https://twitter.com/gunner_schmulke/status/1330441661567135745

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    Hole
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    Post  Hole Tue Nov 24, 2020 12:52 pm

    This is an old trick that was performed a few times back in the 90´s with an Su-27 and 2 Mi-24´s. Still nice. thumbsup
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    Post  Scorpius Fri Dec 11, 2020 11:59 pm

    Su-30 for Russian Air Force #2 - Page 2 1607705312-6e8e515105fdca18cf30cfbd8fa545d6

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    Backman
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    Post  Backman Sat Dec 12, 2020 2:29 am

    JohninMK wrote:Not sure if this video has been linked to before, but just in case it hasn't.



    https://twitter.com/gunner_schmulke/status/1330441661567135745

    That is epic. The canards are leveled with the horizon. I wonder if a non canard Flanker could do this.

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