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    Project 23900 "Ivan Rogov" Amphibious assault ship

    George1
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    Post  George1 Fri Oct 08, 2021 1:13 am

    Mitrofan Moskalenko helicopter carrier to become Russian Black Sea Fleet flagship — source

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    PapaDragon
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    Post  PapaDragon Fri Oct 08, 2021 4:02 pm

    George1 wrote:Mitrofan Moskalenko helicopter carrier to become Russian Black Sea Fleet flagship — source

    So, second one gets to be flagship?

    Interesting, I expected Rogov to become a flagship, wonder why they went with this?

    medo
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    Post  medo Fri Oct 08, 2021 5:12 pm

    PapaDragon wrote:
    George1 wrote:Mitrofan Moskalenko helicopter carrier to become Russian Black Sea Fleet flagship — source

    So, second one gets to be flagship?

    Interesting, I expected Rogov to become a flagship, wonder why they went with this?


    I think Rogov will be flagship in Pacific fleet and Moskalenko in Black Sea fleet.
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    Post  GarryB Fri Oct 08, 2021 10:52 pm

    That is a surprise... I would say the Kuznetsov would have to be the flagship of the Northern Fleet... the fact that they are basing this ship in the Black sea is rather interesting... perhaps an expansion at Tartus or the Sudan, because it makes little sense having a 40K ton helicopter carrier in the Black Sea.

    BTW these ships can be sailed in and out of the Black Sea because they are landing craft and not just aircraft carriers.

    I suspect basing one in the Black Sea is the result of British and general western provocations in the Black Sea over the last few years has resulted in them deciding to base a helicopter carrier there... which will mean they can go and play with Egypt more and have landing practise all around the Med....
    Mir
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    Post  Mir Sat Oct 09, 2021 4:00 am

    Excess to and from the Mediterranean Sea is quite vital for Russia. Large amphibian ships like the Mitrofan Moskalenko would play a vital role in attempting to keep the many choke points open along the way. The Pacific has similar choke points but Russia has some good friends in the area. Not too many friendly nations with big naval ships in the Black Sea though.
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    ALAMO


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    Post  ALAMO Sat Oct 09, 2021 4:17 am

    Mir wrote:Excess to and from the Mediterranean Sea is quite vital for Russia. Large amphibian ships like the Mitrofan Moskalenko would play a vital role in attempting to keep the many choke points open along the way. The Pacific has similar choke points but Russia has some good friends in the area. Not too many friendly nations with big naval ships in the Black Sea though.

    Egypt, Algier, Syria, Libia ... I would say that they are more comfortable than it was in the SU times.
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    Post  owais.usmani Tue Oct 12, 2021 5:27 am

    Man you guys stop with this off topic discussion already! Off Topic Off Topic
    Shadåw
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    Post  Shadåw Thu Oct 14, 2021 8:20 pm

    Has there been any recent pictures from the Shipyard? Be it of the hulls or separate hull sections, it's been awhile since they started after all and I'm curious about progression.

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    GarryB
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    Post  GarryB Fri Oct 15, 2021 4:24 am

    I seem to remember the Soviets were using floating moorings where groups of ships could moor together at sea in the open ocean and transfer supplies and fuel and crew as well as weapons and ammo without having to stop at a port for instance.

    In mid ocean you could sail up in an oil carrying ship and perhaps supply some of the ships there with fuel oil and then move on... it was a handy way of servicing groups of ships in an area at once without having to chase each one down individually... and being in international waters you didn't need anyones permission.

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    Post  LMFS Tue Dec 14, 2021 6:23 am

    Source: helicopter carriers under construction in Kerch will place sea drones on board

    The universal landing ships Ivan Rogov and Mitrofan Moskalenko will operate attack and reconnaissance drones of the helicopter type.

    MOSCOW, December 14. /tass/. Universal amphibious assault ships-helicopter carriers (UDC) of Project 23900 "Ivan Rogov" and "Mitrofan Moskalenko", which are being built at the Kerch shipyard "Zaliv", will be adapted for basing strike and reconnaissance unmanned aerial vehicles (UAVs). This was reported to TASS by a source in the shipbuilding industry.

    "The UDC of Project 23900, in addition to basing a group of marine helicopters, will carry on board and control a certain number of attack and reconnaissance drones of helicopter type," the source said.

    According to him, basing unmanned systems on Project 23900 ships will significantly increase the combat capabilities of helicopter carriers. "Drones will be able to effectively provide fire support for amphibious troops, illuminate the tactical situation in the landing zone and during special operations, detect and, if necessary, eliminate inconspicuous watercraft," he added.

    TASS has no official information on this matter.

    https://tass.ru/armiya-i-opk/13191079

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    Bob Bollusc
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    Post  Bob Bollusc Tue Dec 14, 2021 10:36 am

    What is the progress on the ship's construction?
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    Post  LMFS Tue Dec 14, 2021 1:20 pm

    Bob Bollusc wrote:What is the progress on the ship's construction?

    Not as good as that of the Chinese ones, for sure thumbsup

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    Bob Bollusc
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    Post  Bob Bollusc Wed Dec 15, 2021 12:15 am

    LMFS wrote:
    Bob Bollusc wrote:What is the progress on the ship's construction?

    Not as good as that of the Chinese ones, for sure thumbsup

    Man. I hope Russia import modern construction equipment from China. China built 3 Type 075 within 2 years. Russia is yet to start building its first LHD.
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    owais.usmani


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    Post  owais.usmani Wed Dec 15, 2021 3:51 am

    Bob Bollusc wrote:

    I hope Russia import modern construction equipment from China.

    Tell me you are not smoking weed.
    GarryB
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    Post  GarryB Wed Dec 15, 2021 3:52 am

    Work started on the 075s in about 2011 so it has not taken them two years to build, and one of them did have a fire, but they seem like good ships.

    The core problem is that being helicopter carriers it is difficult to determine their worth without seeing what sort of aircraft they will embark and what sort of armoured vehicles they will be carrying.

    We know very little about the training and performance of the Chinese marine infantry that would operate from such vessels.

    Russian construction equipment is just fine.... they have no need to pump out enormous numbers of ships any time soon... taking their time and getting the designs right and properly tested before going into serial production makes rather more sense that rushing things and trying to beat some other country or impress people on the internet.
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    Post  TMA1 Wed Dec 15, 2021 11:19 am

    Bob Bollusc wrote:
    LMFS wrote:
    Bob Bollusc wrote:What is the progress on the ship's construction?

    Not as good as that of the Chinese ones, for sure thumbsup

    Man. I hope Russia import modern construction equipment from China. China built 3 Type 075 within 2 years. Russia is yet to start building its first LHD.

    ...why did I embarrass myself with my first post about you?

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    Arkanghelsk
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    Post  Arkanghelsk Wed Dec 15, 2021 11:44 am

    So what it's not like China is gonna sail them into the sea of japan. They need udaloys and stereguschiys to hide behind

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    Post  LMFS Wed Dec 15, 2021 10:50 pm

    Bob Bollusc wrote:Man. I hope Russia import modern construction equipment from China. China built 3 Type 075 within 2 years. Russia is yet to start building its first LHD.

    Not predictable at all respekt
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    Post  PapaDragon Wed Dec 15, 2021 11:16 pm

    LMFS wrote:
    Bob Bollusc wrote:Man. I hope Russia import modern construction equipment from China. China built 3 Type 075 within 2 years. Russia is yet to start building its first LHD.

    Not predictable at all respekt

    A familiar scent with a slight tinge of soy-sauce is being felt...

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    TMA1
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    Post  TMA1 Wed Dec 15, 2021 11:34 pm

    LMFS wrote:
    Bob Bollusc wrote:What is the progress on the ship's construction?

    Not as good as that of the Chinese ones, for sure thumbsup

    Haha never seen you bring the bantz. Nice! sniper

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    Post  mnztr Fri Dec 17, 2021 8:17 pm

    Arkanghelsk wrote:So what it's not like China is gonna sail them into the sea of japan. They need udaloys and stereguschiys to hide behind

    Not sure if they will carry any heavy arms and air defense on their own. If they do have AD and 16 Zircons, with drones they can sail with no escort.
    GarryB
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    Post  GarryB Fri Dec 17, 2021 11:57 pm

    They are landing ships, their primary purpose is to land troops and support them in their landing attack... they would need serious support for such a role including fixed wing carriers to provide top cover plus some air defence cruisers to provide a surface based air defence shield, and also a number of destroyers and attack submarines for naval gun fire support and to defeat any enemy subs in the area...

    In the event of a natural disaster however fill them with food and fresh water and hover craft and helicopters to deliver that aide inland with roads and rail lines destroyed and perhaps a hospital ship to deal with any casualties...
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    mnztr


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    Post  mnztr Sat Dec 18, 2021 12:33 am

    It depends how heavily contested the landng is.
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    Post  GarryB Sat Dec 18, 2021 11:02 pm

    No, it doesn't.

    You might pick a perfect landing site where there are no enemy forces, but landing takes time and so the enemy has time to move in air power and land forces and naval forces to oppose your landing so even if you don't need it to start with you might be wanting it later on and depending on where it is it makes more sense to start with it than having a very limited time to get it there because you are taking casualties and need it now.

    And it would be the same for any landing craft... even against the weakest enemy you never know which super power might decide to put its weight and support behind the enemy you are attacking.

    The main exception would be if it is a humanitarian rescue mission.

    To be clear the emphasis is rescue... Kosovo and Libya were humanitarian missions to bypass international laws banning the use of force and violence to get what you want, so the west invented humanitarian intervention to allow them to start wars anyway.... they are bombing countries to save lives.
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    Post  Firebird Sun Dec 19, 2021 7:37 am

    Is there any confirmation anywhere as to what these 2 ships will actually weigh?

    I've heard reports of between 25k tons and around 40k tons.
    I think Tass mentioned 40k tons somewhere (I'm not sure). And Tass are unlikely to be wrong?
    There doesn't seem to be official confirmation anywhere.

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