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    Project 23900 "Ivan Rogov" Amphibious assault ship

    Mir
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    Post  Mir Wed Aug 17, 2022 4:43 pm

    GarryB wrote:Serious lack of air defence systems...

    I agree it could be better, but there seems ample space to add more options. The Pantsyr-M is still a better option that what they did on the Ivan Gren.
    Mir
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    Post  Mir Wed Aug 17, 2022 4:44 pm

    Nice touch though with two models of the ka-65 Minoga on board. Cool

    Project 23900 "Ivan Rogov" Amphibious assault ship - Page 13 Ka65-m10
    Hole
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    Post  Hole Wed Aug 17, 2022 5:21 pm

    Project 23900 "Ivan Rogov" Amphibious assault ship - Page 13 Fawala10

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    Post  xeno Wed Aug 17, 2022 5:30 pm

    Original size please... if possible...
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    Post  xeno Wed Aug 17, 2022 5:41 pm

    No need, found it...
    Mir
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    Post  Mir Wed Aug 17, 2022 9:15 pm

    The bridge areas provide for good all round visibility - excellent from a safety point of view.
    It also seems as if the two lifts have been significantly enlarged from the older model Hole posted.

    Project 23900 "Ivan Rogov" Amphibious assault ship - Page 13 97788310
    Project 23900 "Ivan Rogov" Amphibious assault ship - Page 13 Lifts-10

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    Post  GarryB Thu Aug 18, 2022 8:14 am

    Besides, if we take a Chinese 071 type to compare, they have 2x RAM-like systems and 2x plain gun CIWS. Here you can see a double Pancyr, that combines both, so it has the same number of missile system, same gun systems - only combined. And the missiles are about 5-7x the range.

    In that case though the Chinese are copying western levels of air defence and not Soviet... isn't ironic that the air power focussed west is very lax when it comes to air defence for ground and naval forces... they expect their air power to be there and to get the job done.

    The Soviet and Russian Army and Navy generally expect to be left on their own with no air support and arm their forces to expect to have to defend themselves accordingly.

    I guess that there is some nice VLS system hidden somewhere we can't see.

    When I first saw drawings of this ship those... what appear to be crates in front of the island were coloured blue and appeared to be a vertical launch system, but on this model appear to be rather strange shallow crates... unless they are recessed into the deck... and why would they be?

    The drawings also showed similar blue "launch bins" on each corner of the deck... I mean if you look at the Kuznetsov the launch bins for the old Kinzhal don't take up a lot of space and new modern versions would take up even less and instead of fitting four sensor mounts, one in each corner of the island they could perhaps put them in each corner of the deck out of the way. Using just a grid array of launch tubes with the newer missiles they could easily carry them in large numbers all ready to fire... super cheap command guided missiles which are rather accurate in their current versions... and something they could retrofit to smaller vessels and the Kuznetsov itself as well.

    Nice touch though with two models of the ka-65 Minoga on board.

    I remember in the 1990s seeing models from the 1970s that were to represent what the Kuznestov and Ulyanovsk classes were going to look like and they both showed MiG-23Ks. I think it might have made a rather good carrier based plane actually, but the Su-33 and the MiG-29K made more sense for the real carriers of course... just like now the Su-57 and a new smaller aircraft would make more sense moving forward too for their next gen fixed wing carriers.

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    Post  GarryB Thu Aug 18, 2022 8:16 am

    Maybe make these nuclear powered and replace the two masts smoke stacks with Redut launchers... Twisted Evil

    Good real world test for NPPs they will be using on destroyers and cruisers soon...
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    Post  Mir Thu Aug 18, 2022 4:50 pm

    GarryB wrote:

    I remember in the 1990s seeing models from the 1970s that were to represent what the Kuznestov and Ulyanovsk classes were going to look like and they both showed MiG-23Ks. I think it might have made a rather good carrier based plane actually, but the Su-33 and the MiG-29K made more sense for the real carriers of course... just like now the Su-57 and a new smaller aircraft would make more sense moving forward too for their next gen fixed wing carriers.

    Yes those were actual projects but were later canceled (including the Mig-23K). The Kuznetsov and Ulyanovsk were later projects.

    Project 23900 "Ivan Rogov" Amphibious assault ship - Page 13 Pt115310

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    Post  Hole Thu Aug 18, 2022 5:15 pm

    The ship will stay away from the coast most of the time, that´s why it carries helicopters and landing craft/AVC´s. But additional AD weapons will come in containerized form if the mission requires it.

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