Project 23900 "Ivan Rogov" Amphibious assault ship

GarryB wrote:Serious lack of air defence systems...

I agree it could be better, but there seems ample space to add more options. The Pantsyr-M is still a better option that what they did on the Ivan Gren.

Nice touch though with two models of the ka-65 Minoga on board.

Original size please... if possible...

No need, found it...

The bridge areas provide for good all round visibility - excellent from a safety point of view.
It also seems as if the two lifts have been significantly enlarged from the older model Hole posted.

Besides, if we take a Chinese 071 type to compare, they have 2x RAM-like systems and 2x plain gun CIWS. Here you can see a double Pancyr, that combines both, so it has the same number of missile system, same gun systems - only combined. And the missiles are about 5-7x the range.

In that case though the Chinese are copying western levels of air defence and not Soviet... isn't ironic that the air power focussed west is very lax when it comes to air defence for ground and naval forces... they expect their air power to be there and to get the job done.

The Soviet and Russian Army and Navy generally expect to be left on their own with no air support and arm their forces to expect to have to defend themselves accordingly.

I guess that there is some nice VLS system hidden somewhere we can't see.

When I first saw drawings of this ship those... what appear to be crates in front of the island were coloured blue and appeared to be a vertical launch system, but on this model appear to be rather strange shallow crates... unless they are recessed into the deck... and why would they be?

The drawings also showed similar blue "launch bins" on each corner of the deck... I mean if you look at the Kuznetsov the launch bins for the old Kinzhal don't take up a lot of space and new modern versions would take up even less and instead of fitting four sensor mounts, one in each corner of the island they could perhaps put them in each corner of the deck out of the way. Using just a grid array of launch tubes with the newer missiles they could easily carry them in large numbers all ready to fire... super cheap command guided missiles which are rather accurate in their current versions... and something they could retrofit to smaller vessels and the Kuznetsov itself as well.

Nice touch though with two models of the ka-65 Minoga on board.

I remember in the 1990s seeing models from the 1970s that were to represent what the Kuznestov and Ulyanovsk classes were going to look like and they both showed MiG-23Ks. I think it might have made a rather good carrier based plane actually, but the Su-33 and the MiG-29K made more sense for the real carriers of course... just like now the Su-57 and a new smaller aircraft would make more sense moving forward too for their next gen fixed wing carriers.

Maybe make these nuclear powered and replace the two masts smoke stacks with Redut launchers...

Good real world test for NPPs they will be using on destroyers and cruisers soon...

GarryB wrote:

I remember in the 1990s seeing models from the 1970s that were to represent what the Kuznestov and Ulyanovsk classes were going to look like and they both showed MiG-23Ks. I think it might have made a rather good carrier based plane actually, but the Su-33 and the MiG-29K made more sense for the real carriers of course... just like now the Su-57 and a new smaller aircraft would make more sense moving forward too for their next gen fixed wing carriers.

Yes those were actual projects but were later canceled (including the Mig-23K). The Kuznetsov and Ulyanovsk were later projects.

The ship will stay away from the coast most of the time, that´s why it carries helicopters and landing craft/AVC´s. But additional AD weapons will come in containerized form if the mission requires it.

https://www.korabel.ru/news/comments/uspeshno_zversheny_zavodskie_ispytaniya_podrulivayuschego_ustroystva_moschnostyu_1_mvt.html

The tests took place in Nizhny Tagil on February 10. The thruster was manufactured by Ship Propulsion Complexes for the project 23900 ship.

The tests were attended by representatives of the customer from the plant. Butoma, Kerch, department of transport support and maritime register.

The ship will stay away from the coast most of the time, that´s why it carries helicopters and landing craft/AVC´s. But additional AD weapons will come in containerized form if the mission requires it.

At the very least a ship needs to be able to defend itself, or at least contribute to that defence... this is supposed to be a warship and most gun mounts are fully dual purpose systems that can be very useful in various different situations.

The talk of extending the firing range of 152mm guns to 180km suggests a bit of naval gunfire support should be practical, though mounted on a cruiser it could have plenty of ammo on board and not take away from the primary role of a helicopter carrier which is carrying troops and armour and support equipment to support a landing.

Perhaps some sort of gunship could be on the cards in the future able to fire the sort of amount of ammo we see being fired in the Ukraine conflict per day...

Perhaps even a longer ranged 203mm gun could be joint developed between the Navy and Army to reach 250km with guided HE shells... what better way to launch a swarm attack on an enemy ship than to fire 120kg guided shells from 250km away at a rate of 60 rounds per minute... most defences would be overwhelmed very quickly... some western ships wouldn't even stop the first shell...