Russia Defence Forum

Would you like to react to this message? Create an account in a few clicks or log in to continue.

Military Forum for Russian and Global Defence Issues


    US (& Allies) Hypersonic developments and missiles

    JohninMK
    JohninMK

    Posts : 8960
    Points : 9057
    Join date : 2015-06-16
    Location : England

    US (& Allies) Hypersonic developments and missiles - Page 3 Empty Re: US (& Allies) Hypersonic developments and missiles

    Post  JohninMK Wed Mar 31, 2021 1:15 am

    Big article


    Alerts from the Federal Aviation Administration strongly suggest that the U.S. Air Force's first flight test of its AGM-183A Air-launched Rapid Response Weapon hypersonic missile, or ARRW, is imminent. The recent arrival of the U.S. Army's missile range instrumentation ship USAV Worthy in San Diego and of one of NASA's WB-57F aircraft, which can be configured to help gather data from missile tests, at Naval Air Station Point Mugu outside of Los Angeles, also point to an impending launch.


    https://www.thedrive.com/the-war-zone/39975/signs-point-to-imminent-debut-flight-test-of-the-air-forces-first-hypersonic-missile
    Hole
    Hole

    Posts : 4271
    Points : 4265
    Join date : 2018-03-24
    Age : 45
    Location : Merkelland

    US (& Allies) Hypersonic developments and missiles - Page 3 Empty Re: US (& Allies) Hypersonic developments and missiles

    Post  Hole Wed Mar 31, 2021 12:12 pm

    Test of the booster, not the missile itself.
    JohninMK
    JohninMK

    Posts : 8960
    Points : 9057
    Join date : 2015-06-16
    Location : England

    US (& Allies) Hypersonic developments and missiles - Page 3 Empty Re: US (& Allies) Hypersonic developments and missiles

    Post  JohninMK Tue Apr 06, 2021 6:47 pm

    Ooops.



    WASHINGTON — The first rocket booster test of the U.S. Air Force’s hypersonic AGM-183A Air-launched Rapid Response Weapon failed when the vehicle did not launch during an April 5 flight.

    During tests over Point Mugu Sea Range off the coast of California, a B-52 Stratofortress bomber attempted to launch the ARRW booster vehicle. However, “the test missile was not able to complete its launch sequence” and the bomber returned to Edwards Air Force Base, California, with the test vehicle, the Air Force said in a statement.

    The service plans to study the missile to understand why it didn’t launch, then make alterations and attempt to fire it in a future test, the service said.

    “The ARRW program has been pushing boundaries since its inception and taking calculated risks to move this important capability forward,” said Brig. Gen. Heath Collins, the Air Force’s program executive officer for its armaments directorate. “While not launching was disappointing, the recent test provided invaluable information to learn from and continue ahead. This is why we test.”

    Aside from demonstrating the safe separation of the ARRW booster from the B-52 during the April 5 test, the Air Force had intended to evaluate the performance of the missile at operational speeds through ignition and the boost phase, as well as simulate the separation of the booster from the glide vehicle.

    The test was carried out by the 419th Flight Test Squadron and the Global Power Bomber Combined Test Force at Edwards AFB.

    The ARRW test missile was delivered to the base on March 1, the service said in a March 5 release, and the first booster test flight was due to follow aboard a B-52 bomber “in the next 30 days.”
    Sign up for our Training & Sim Report

    “The BTF-1 test vehicle is complete and is progressing through ground testing to verify its readiness for flight. The team has successfully dealt with COVID challenges and resolved technical findings not uncommon in a first-of-a-kind weapon system. We have minimized schedule delays while maintaining a laser focus on engineering rigor,” Collins said then, according to the news release.

    The service plans to conduct additional booster and all-up-round test flights throughout 2021. The ARRW program previously flew seven captive carriage flight tests, where the weapon is carried by an aircraft but not released, allowing for the service to collect data on how the weapon impacts the flight profile of the aircraft.

    The Air Force awarded Lockheed Martin a contract worth up to $480 million for ARRW development activities in 2018, including the critical design review, testing and production readiness support.

    In fiscal 2021, Congress allotted $386 million to the Air Force for hypersonic prototyping — an increase of $5 million over the service’s budget request. But that funding came with sacrifices. Last year, the Air Force announced that it would cancel a separate hypersonic weapons program, the Hypersonic Conventional Strike Weapon also produced by Lockheed, due to budget constraints that forced the service to downselect to a single effort.

    Although the HCSW program had shown promise, ARRW had a more “unique glide body design” when compared to HCSW or some of the other hypersonic weapons under development by the Navy and Army, a service spokeswoman said at the time.

    Both ARRW and HCSW are boost glide hypersonic weapons, which fly just below space, but the service is also interested in hypersonic cruise missiles that would be able to take a flight path with lower trajectories.


    https://www.defensenews.com/air/2021/04/06/the-first-flight-test-of-the-air-forces-air-launched-hypersonic-booster-didnt-go-as-planned/

    LMFS likes this post

    LMFS
    LMFS

    Posts : 3787
    Points : 3789
    Join date : 2018-03-03

    US (& Allies) Hypersonic developments and missiles - Page 3 Empty Re: US (& Allies) Hypersonic developments and missiles

    Post  LMFS Tue Apr 06, 2021 9:52 pm

    That is how it looks like when you need to test a missile that does not actually exist Laughing

    magnumcromagnon and Backman like this post

    magnumcromagnon
    magnumcromagnon

    Posts : 7326
    Points : 7475
    Join date : 2013-12-05
    Location : Pindos ave., Pindosville, Pindosylvania, Pindostan

    US (& Allies) Hypersonic developments and missiles - Page 3 Empty Re: US (& Allies) Hypersonic developments and missiles

    Post  magnumcromagnon Tue Apr 06, 2021 10:48 pm

    LMFS wrote:That is how it looks like when you need to test a missile that does not actually exist Laughing

    The reason why it failed is that they forget to drench the missile in maple syrup. How could their wunderwaffle function properly without it's appropriate lubricant? dunno Sad

    US (& Allies) Hypersonic developments and missiles - Page 3 EySKjNUWgAAt3kT?format=jpg&name=small

    LMFS likes this post

    magnumcromagnon
    magnumcromagnon

    Posts : 7326
    Points : 7475
    Join date : 2013-12-05
    Location : Pindos ave., Pindosville, Pindosylvania, Pindostan

    US (& Allies) Hypersonic developments and missiles - Page 3 Empty Re: US (& Allies) Hypersonic developments and missiles

    Post  magnumcromagnon Tue Apr 06, 2021 11:08 pm

    BTW a US psuedo expert had the nerve to say Zircon is a 'wunderwaffle' when Uncle Sham's hypersuckass programs are already dead-on-arrival.

    Tsirkon wunderwaffle

    https://twitter.com/KofmanMichael/status/1379015456938360835
    Backman
    Backman

    Posts : 840
    Points : 850
    Join date : 2020-11-11

    US (& Allies) Hypersonic developments and missiles - Page 3 Empty Re: US (& Allies) Hypersonic developments and missiles

    Post  Backman Wed Apr 07, 2021 1:16 am

    Who designed this thing ? SpaceX ? Smile

    magnumcromagnon and limb like this post

    JohninMK
    JohninMK

    Posts : 8960
    Points : 9057
    Join date : 2015-06-16
    Location : England

    US (& Allies) Hypersonic developments and missiles - Page 3 Empty Re: US (& Allies) Hypersonic developments and missiles

    Post  JohninMK Fri May 14, 2021 12:17 pm

    Update article


    The U.S. Army has finally provided an official range for its future Long Range Hypersonic Weapon, or LRHW. This range figure notably means it would have been prohibited under the now-defunct Intermediate-Range Nuclear Forces Treaty, or INF, that the United States and Russia were parties to until 2019. This disclosure also follows criticism earlier this year from a senior Air Force officer about the utility of this weapon, especially in the Pacific region.

    "The Long Range Hypersonic Weapon provides a capability at a distance greater than 2,775 km," an Army spokesperson said, according to Breaking Defense. This means that the LRHW can strike targets at least 1,725 miles away. For comparison, the Army Tactical Missile System (ATACMS) short-range ballistic missile, the longest-range ground-based missile system currently in Army service, can only reach targets out to 300 kilometers, or close to 186 miles.
    US Army

    The complete LRHW missile consists of a large rocket booster with an unpowered hypersonic boost-glide vehicle on top. The rocket is used to loft the conical boost-glide vehicle to a desired speed and altitude. The vehicle then detaches and comes zooming back down toward its target along an atmospheric flight trajectory at hypersonic velocity, defined as anything above Mach 5.


    https://www.thedrive.com/the-war-zone/40584/the-army-has-finally-revealed-the-range-its-new-hypersonic-weapon
    avatar
    Arrow

    Posts : 900
    Points : 898
    Join date : 2012-02-12

    US (& Allies) Hypersonic developments and missiles - Page 3 Empty Re: US (& Allies) Hypersonic developments and missiles

    Post  Arrow Fri May 14, 2021 1:17 pm

    The range is much larger than the land Iskander and Cirkon. Shocked
    GarryB
    GarryB

    Posts : 29860
    Points : 30388
    Join date : 2010-03-30
    Location : New Zealand

    US (& Allies) Hypersonic developments and missiles - Page 3 Empty Re: US (& Allies) Hypersonic developments and missiles

    Post  GarryB Sat May 15, 2021 2:49 am

    Iskanders range was limited to 480km by the INF treaty... it would be very very easy to add a stage or two and add a scramjet motor stage and boost its flight range to anything they like.

    Zircon is an anti ship missile intended for sinking US carriers and the ships operating with them.

    The US and Russia have no weapons in that flight range simply because previously such weapons were banned.

    Now that they are not banned any more Russia can develop all sorts of intermediate range weapons to fill the gap.

    The main difference is that Russia has a working scramjet motor able to operate at mach 10 in a missile just about to enter serial production and service.

    The US does not.

    Russia could simply design a truck mounted missile with a bigger fuel tank than Zircon and get any range they like...
    lyle6
    lyle6

    Posts : 671
    Points : 673
    Join date : 2020-09-14
    Location : Philippines

    US (& Allies) Hypersonic developments and missiles - Page 3 Empty Re: US (& Allies) Hypersonic developments and missiles

    Post  lyle6 Sat May 15, 2021 2:58 am

    Iskander is a much longer ranged missile without mods. Its range is only 500 km when incorporating evasive maneuvers within its trajectory.
    PapaDragon
    PapaDragon

    Posts : 11083
    Points : 11157
    Join date : 2015-04-26
    Location : Fort Evil, Serbia

    US (& Allies) Hypersonic developments and missiles - Page 3 Empty Re: US (& Allies) Hypersonic developments and missiles

    Post  PapaDragon Sat May 15, 2021 3:25 am

    Arrow wrote:The range is much larger than the land Iskander and Cirkon. Shocked

    Iskander old short range missile

    We don't know range of Zircon

    And range of this new one is definitely not much larger than potential land version of Kinzhal
    avatar
    walle83

    Posts : 498
    Points : 508
    Join date : 2016-11-13
    Location : Sweden

    US (& Allies) Hypersonic developments and missiles - Page 3 Empty Re: US (& Allies) Hypersonic developments and missiles

    Post  walle83 Sat May 22, 2021 12:04 am

    https://www.flightglobal.com/fixed-wing/b-52-completes-long-range-kill-chain-with-simulated-hypersonic-missile-attack/143676.article

    The US Air Force (USAF) demonstrated a Boeing B-52 Stratofortress bomber carrying out a simulated hypersonic missile strike using targeting data from sensors positioned more than 1,000nm (1,850km) away.

    “The bomber then was able to successfully take a simulated shot of the target from 600nm away using an AGM-183 Air Launched Rapid Response Weapon (ARRW)”, says the USAF. “This was a successful showcase of beyond-line of sight kill chain employment, and notably, was a success in the highly contested and realistic threat environment that Northern Edge provides”.
    lyle6
    lyle6

    Posts : 671
    Points : 673
    Join date : 2020-09-14
    Location : Philippines

    US (& Allies) Hypersonic developments and missiles - Page 3 Empty Re: US (& Allies) Hypersonic developments and missiles

    Post  lyle6 Sat May 22, 2021 2:55 am

    Its a "simulated" launch of a "notional" and currently fictitious "missile" - take it out.
    GarryB
    GarryB

    Posts : 29860
    Points : 30388
    Join date : 2010-03-30
    Location : New Zealand

    US (& Allies) Hypersonic developments and missiles - Page 3 Empty Re: US (& Allies) Hypersonic developments and missiles

    Post  GarryB Sat May 22, 2021 10:38 am

    Iskander could fly further simply by adopting a ballistic trajectory and not manouvering, but in doing so would make it seriously vulnerable to interception despite its high speed.

    Iskander is based on the design of older less capable missiles but those earlier missiles didn't have range restrictions so their range was much better.

    The only reason Iskander has a 480km range is because of the limitations of the INF treaty.

    Those limitations are gone, but Iskander is widely deployed.

    Using the new more powerful rocket fuel and a scramjet motor they could a massively longer ranged missile that can manouver all the way to target... a scramjet motor means it carries three times more fuel by weight than a solid propellent rocket, and it can throttle control its thrust levels all the way to the target to most efficiently use that fuel as well.

    Plus the scramjet motor exists and the new rocket fuel exists and if they make it similar in size and shape to the existing Iskander missile they could deploy it to existing vehicles already deployed in Europe...
    avatar
    walle83

    Posts : 498
    Points : 508
    Join date : 2016-11-13
    Location : Sweden

    US (& Allies) Hypersonic developments and missiles - Page 3 Empty Re: US (& Allies) Hypersonic developments and missiles

    Post  walle83 Sat May 22, 2021 10:49 am

    lyle6 wrote:Its a "simulated" launch of a "notional" and currently fictitious "missile" - take it out.

    It was test of the sensors for the missilesystem. And it worked.
    Hole
    Hole

    Posts : 4271
    Points : 4265
    Join date : 2018-03-24
    Age : 45
    Location : Merkelland

    US (& Allies) Hypersonic developments and missiles - Page 3 Empty Re: US (& Allies) Hypersonic developments and missiles

    Post  Hole Sat May 22, 2021 12:12 pm

    At night I can see satellites flying above my house. Is this proof that I can shot them down successfully? No, because I don´t have a working missile.
    avatar
    walle83

    Posts : 498
    Points : 508
    Join date : 2016-11-13
    Location : Sweden

    US (& Allies) Hypersonic developments and missiles - Page 3 Empty Re: US (& Allies) Hypersonic developments and missiles

    Post  walle83 Sat May 22, 2021 12:43 pm

    Hole wrote:At night I can see satellites flying above my house. Is this proof that I can shot them down successfully? No, because I don´t have a working missile.

    Again the test was for the sensors....nothing else.
    The sensors worked just fine, how can they test the missile itself if they dont have it yet.
    GarryB
    GarryB

    Posts : 29860
    Points : 30388
    Join date : 2010-03-30
    Location : New Zealand

    US (& Allies) Hypersonic developments and missiles - Page 3 Empty Re: US (& Allies) Hypersonic developments and missiles

    Post  GarryB Sun May 23, 2021 1:24 am

    So nothing important happened... the problem is the scramjet motors... they can mount sensors on all sorts of things to test including Minuteman ICBMs, but without suitable propulsion systems working it doesn't mean anything.
    JohninMK
    JohninMK

    Posts : 8960
    Points : 9057
    Join date : 2015-06-16
    Location : England

    US (& Allies) Hypersonic developments and missiles - Page 3 Empty Re: US (& Allies) Hypersonic developments and missiles

    Post  JohninMK Fri Jun 04, 2021 7:48 pm

    That's fast but its not hypersonic so I'm sure the figures are wrong Laughing Laughing

    Steve Trimble
    @TheDEWLine
    · 2 Jun
    Speaking at live CSIS webcast, DOD hypersonic director Mike White says today that US hypersonic weapons now in development can hit targets 500 miles away in 10 minutes. If you do the calculation, that equates to an average speed of Mach 4 over the 10 minute period.

    PapaDragon, LMFS and lancelot like this post

    PapaDragon
    PapaDragon

    Posts : 11083
    Points : 11157
    Join date : 2015-04-26
    Location : Fort Evil, Serbia

    US (& Allies) Hypersonic developments and missiles - Page 3 Empty Re: US (& Allies) Hypersonic developments and missiles

    Post  PapaDragon Fri Jun 04, 2021 11:30 pm


    Correct

    Mach 4 ain’t no hypersonic, that's the speed of old Kh-22 Kitchen missile from 1962 Sleep

    ahmedfire and Hole like this post

    LMFS
    LMFS

    Posts : 3787
    Points : 3789
    Join date : 2018-03-03

    US (& Allies) Hypersonic developments and missiles - Page 3 Empty Re: US (& Allies) Hypersonic developments and missiles

    Post  LMFS Sat Jun 05, 2021 5:12 am

    PapaDragon wrote:
    Correct

    Mach 4 ain’t no hypersonic, that's the speed of old Kh-22 Kitchen missile from 1962 Sleep

    They stole that from the US!! Back in 2025!! angry

    Hole likes this post

    GarryB
    GarryB

    Posts : 29860
    Points : 30388
    Join date : 2010-03-30
    Location : New Zealand

    US (& Allies) Hypersonic developments and missiles - Page 3 Empty Re: US (& Allies) Hypersonic developments and missiles

    Post  GarryB Sat Jun 05, 2021 10:50 am

    The Kh-22M had a speed of about mach 3 at about 22km altitude... but being rocket propelled I would say mach 3 near the end of its flight when most of the fuel had burned up.

    That's fast but its not hypersonic so I'm sure the figures are wrong

    The question is about what sort of test it was... an engine test would be bad, but a manouvering test with lots of high g turning and corkscrew manouvering and mach 4 is not that bad... but it shows they are not hugely advanced in the testing.

    Creepy Joe said the Russians copied their technology... based on this information I would say I suspect not.
    lancelot
    lancelot

    Posts : 460
    Points : 462
    Join date : 2020-10-18

    US (& Allies) Hypersonic developments and missiles - Page 3 Empty Re: US (& Allies) Hypersonic developments and missiles

    Post  lancelot Sat Jun 05, 2021 5:06 pm

    GarryB wrote:Creepy Joe said the Russians copied their technology... based on this information I would say I suspect not.

    The Russians stole US hypersonics like the Chinese stole US 5G.
    i.e. not really.
    Hole
    Hole

    Posts : 4271
    Points : 4265
    Join date : 2018-03-24
    Age : 45
    Location : Merkelland

    US (& Allies) Hypersonic developments and missiles - Page 3 Empty Re: US (& Allies) Hypersonic developments and missiles

    Post  Hole Sat Jun 05, 2021 9:15 pm

    Max. speed of the Kh-22 is M 4,6 (4.900km/h)

    Sponsored content

    US (& Allies) Hypersonic developments and missiles - Page 3 Empty Re: US (& Allies) Hypersonic developments and missiles

    Post  Sponsored content


      Current date/time is Wed Jul 28, 2021 2:04 am