Syrian War: News #22

Isos wrote:Krasnopol has a 20km max range. Any big artillery can counter attack the launching position with some intel on its position.

A su-30 will bomb but will also intercept any armed drone or reccon drone.

Turkish drone succeeded because there was no air defence and no air force. Once pantsirs and buks came they were dead. A su34 can load a pair of kh31 and destroy any rdar out there from stand off.

Krasnopol M range 25 km. Kasirgas K range 70 km. Anyway, modern warfare is low intensity warfare. In Idlib almost all battles occur within a few km at the most.



What good are Russian fighter jets in Syria? They never shoot down a single Turkish drone anyway.

WTF is going on?

That's 5 yes 5 times that Youtube video has been put in this thread and its only on page 3. Plus it isn't even in English, the language of the site.

JohninMK wrote:WTF is going on?

That's 5 yes 5 times that Youtube video has been put in this thread and its only on page 3. Plus it isn't even in English, the language of the site.

This is Russian defense forum. English defense forum is that way.

This Russian defence forum is an English language forum... but even if it wasn't repeatedly posting the same video over and over is bad form... please delete some or I will delete the posts.

Krasnopol-M is 155mm calibre for NATO weapons and is not used by Russia or Syria... it is an export round.

Certainly development with new rounds actually means in future their shells will have enormous ranges and GLONASS guidance... so a drone could use GLONASS to locate itself and then lase a target to get its distance and direction from the drones current position and calculate the 3D coordinates of the target which can be transmitted to artillery units in the area who can then set their GLONASS guided shells to that coordinate and fire at targets 70km distant with fairly devastating effect. With a reduced weight round designed to destroy moving targets like trucks and cars its range could be extended to 170km with laser homing to hit moving targets with drone support, but to reach almost anywhere a high flying aircraft can carry much much heavier and much more powerful munitions... so instead of damaging the front of a building a car just drove in to, an Su-34 can flatten the entire building and get assured kills against wider area targets like vehicles in a field or orchard with rocket launchers.

I agree that drones with Artillery are exciting and rather useful, but I would also say that a drone with ATGMs like Shturm and Ataka and Kornet with HE warheads would be much faster in terms of response time to take out targets caught in the act... like a group of people setting up a mortar or rockets for launch the drone could engage as soon as they are spotted.

Beam riding missiles are cheap and rather accurate and were mass produced for Hind helicopters and Havoc helicopters too... the older command guided missiles could also be used and would be very cheap as well and don't have the problems of wire guidance.

They are compact and would be easy to mount on drones in decent numbers... a version with wings that glides could extend range and add to payload weight with less rocket fuel making them cheaper and more efficient...

The British ALARM ARM is very interesting... it has multiple modes of operation but in one mode it fires a rocket motor to climb up to altitude and then releases a parachute to slowly descend over the battlefield where the aircraft that launched it is flying through. Any SAM turns on a radar to track either the missile or the planes it is protecting will activate the ALARM missile which will fire up its motor and dive down and attack the SAMs Radar protecting the plane... a very clever idea to have a missile perform over watch for an attack... with drones you might have a large drone flying around at 10-12km altitude with dozens of ATGMs... perhaps on a rotary launcher where one tube sticks out and can be fired with the tube ejected after launch and the next missile rotateted into the launch position ready to fire in the belly of the fuselage of the drone so you only ever get drag from one missile tube instead of a dozen or so under wings... or some mechanised loader that projects the tube out for launch and ditches it and then projects another tube so missiles are carried inside protected and out of the slipstream while allowing lots of missile attacks to be made so it does not have to return to base after firing two or four missiles.

Other smaller lighter drones could operate at lower altitudes to find targets... with the big drone overhead to take out targets as they are spotted rather than having to call up artillery or an air strike that might take ten minutes for artillery or hours for aircraft....

Very long range artillery would enable better response times as the area covered means one battery could be on continuous alert engaging a wide range of targets at once, but with 20km range rounds they need to be rather close to the action which limits their effectiveness over a large battlespace and means more batteries need to be on call to get any sort of coverage...

Russia recaptured the location where Roman Filipov was shot down by Turkish army in 2018 and died heroically in combat against Turkish soldiers. A monument has been built at that location.

https://twitter.com/annanews_info/status/1240261183468339204

GarryB wrote:This Russian defence forum is an English language forum... but even if it wasn't repeatedly posting the same video over and over is bad form... please delete some or I will delete the posts.

Krasnopol-M is 155mm calibre for NATO weapons and is not used by Russia or Syria... it is an export round.

Krasnpol M is 152 mm Russian version.


Krasnopol-M (also referred as KM-1) is an improved 152 mm Russian version. A separate charge was abandoned and the shell now has a fixed charge. It has a range of 25 km and a hit probability of 80-90%. This guided shell weights 45 kg and contains 10 kg of explosive content.

http://www.military-today.com/artillery/krasnopol.htm


Anyway, Krasnopol M is pretty old round. The newest rounds used in 2S35 Koalitsiya-SV can shoot way further like 80 km or so.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2S35_Koalitsiya-SV

Military today?

Krasnopol-M (also referred as KM-1) is an export round in a calibre Russia does not use... it is a 155mm calibre round for western guns.

http://roe.ru/eng/catalog/land-forces/guided-weapon-systems/km-1/

The round the Russians use is designated 2K25 and is just called Krasnopol and is a 152mm calibre round for Russian and Soviet calibre guns... both have effective ranges of between 3km and 20km.

http://roe.ru/eng/catalog/land-forces/guided-weapon-systems/2k25/

Obviously with their new 152mm guns the effective ranges of their guided artillery shells will be massively extended, but I doubt they will be widely using them in Syria... they might have prototypes being tested there, but not reliable go to ammo yet.

The new Koalition uses a smart fuse with control surfaces that is attached to a standard artillery shell to provide guidance using GLONASS. It would be no good against mobile targets like trucks and vehicles but excellent for hitting buildings and bunkers and fixed objects.

Step News Agency
@Step_Agency

An explosive device has exploded targeting an armored Turkish convoy near the village of Mambal west of Idlib and reports of injuries among Turkish soldiers and clashes are taking place between the "Guardians of the Faction" and the Turkish army in the village.


TURKISH CONVOY STRUCK WITH TWO IEDS IN WESTERN IDLIB. CASUALTIES REPORTED

O no! Buhu!

Isos wrote:Are those "guardians" one of their proxies ?

Almost all groups there are Turkish proxies , some of them didn't agree on the Turkish Russian deal .

Update :

Russian defense: Two Turkish soldiers killed in clashes with terrorists in Idlib  on the "M4" road in Idlib, northwestern Syria

Pic from Turkish mod for the dead .

ahmedfire wrote:

Isos wrote:Are those "guardians" one of their proxies ?

Almost all groups there are Turkish proxies , some of them didn't agree on the Turkish Russian deal .

Update :

Russian defense: Two Turkish soldiers killed in clashes with terrorists in Idlib  on the "M4" road in Idlib, northwestern Syria

Pic from Turkish mod for the dead .

The chickens coming home to roost! Remember that time when ISIS/ISIL attacked Turkish Leo-2's?

The chickens coming home to roost! Remember that time when ISIS/ISIL attacked Turkish Leo-2's?

ISIS claims they destroyed at least 10 leo-2 tanks , after that they became friends with turkish intelligence

Green for us says Erdogan. No way Jose says Syria.

Isos wrote:https://mobile.twitter.com/RALee85/status/1241088031974662149

Krasnopol in Syria. Deadly accuracy.

Bellow in comment more video and one video of ISIS drone launching hand grenades at russian PMC but total failure.

Laser illuminated by UAV ?

JohninMK wrote:Green for us says Erdogan. No way Jose says Syria.

Map is well obsolete. Doesn't show any of the recent SAA gains in Turkorat Idlibistan.

Those videos were interesting... if you look at some with the big crosshairs coloured blue or black it marks the exact impact point, while other videos of the same target are centred in other places making the hits look random and not accurate.

I suspect over each target there are drones filming target areas and the drones marking the targets are using their own laser beams to mark the target so when you see video of an attack where the impact is not in the centre of the view of the videoing drone it is because another drone is actually marking the target.

If you go to the above link and look at the second video down at about the 14-16 second mark you see a big circle crosshair marking where the rounds impact on the target so that video is of the target from the drone marking the target... note a section of the roof collapses near the door... then immediately after that view of the impact you see the same building from a different angle... notice the roof collapses again but the impact is not in the centre of view because this camera angle is to view the attack and not to mark the target for the attack.

It is also important to see how close these rounds are to the point of aim... that looks like a CEP of less than 2m to me.... and with a 40kg artillery shell that is plenty...

GarryB wrote:Those videos were interesting... if you look at some with the big crosshairs coloured blue or black it marks the exact impact point, while other videos of the same target are centred in other places making the hits look random and not accurate.

I suspect over each target there are drones filming target areas and the drones marking the targets are using their own laser beams to mark the target so when you see video of an attack where the impact is not in the centre of the view of the videoing drone it is because another drone is actually marking the target.

If you go to the above link and look at the second video down at about the 14-16 second mark you see a big circle crosshair marking where the rounds impact on the target so that video is of the target from the drone marking the target... note a section of the roof collapses near the door... then immediately after that view of the impact you see the same building from a different angle... notice the roof collapses again but the impact is not in the centre of view because this camera angle is to view the attack and not to mark the target for the attack.

It is also important to see how close these rounds are to the point of aim... that looks like a CEP of less than 2m to me.... and with a 40kg artillery shell that is plenty...

The real question is when will we start seeing Inertial Guidance shells introduced? There's laser guided, NAVSAT/GLONASS guided, but Inertial Guidance shells would have all the advantages of the previous methods but with none of the drawbacks.

Well they probably don't have any reason to show us those because you would normally use those against fixed structures and targets like bridges and HQs and comms centres.

In the videos shown it is generally vehicles or buildings people have just driven or run in to... which has the enormous advantage that if someone claims it is evidence they are bombing hospitals then they can show the full footage of the armed group of men running in there just before the munition hit, or point out the HMG on the back of the light truck they are hitting proves it is not an ambulance as orgs of ill repute like bellingcat claims.

I suspect for the vast majority of cases when hunting terrorists within a community you have to pretend are innocent and not just the terrorist support team and families of the head choppers then hitting them with laser guided shells is a good way to go because you have the video often from multiple angles showing what was aimed and and what was hit.

Western audiences would be satisfied with the claim that the evil Russians are purposely targeting innocents, or using views from drones watching attacks but not guiding munitions as evidence of how inaccurate their so called guided weapons are, but when you see these videos you can see this is not hit and miss, this is hitting what they want to hit and not the carpet bombing the west enjoyed not that long ago, but Russia really has to stop caring what the CNN and BBC fed western audience think...

It is of course ironic because if Russia had never stepped in in Syria and Syria had turned in to a lawless shit hole like Libya currently is the migrant crisis would be more than doubled because the majority of the Syrian population would want to leave...

These laser guided shells are actually rather cheap and as you can clearly see are very accurate... they get much better value for money than HATO countries do.

The French were going to buy Russian 155mm artillery shells.... the Krasnopol-M was specifically developed for them... is compatible with French and NATO laser target markers... but from what I can tell the French backed out of the deal as usual...

Technology SITREP: How Russian engineering made the current operation in Syria possible

SVP stands for “специализированная вычислительная подсистема” or “special computing subsystem”.  What this system does is that it constantly compares the position of the aircraft and the target (using the GLONASS satellite navigation system), it measures the environmental parameters (pressure, humidity, windspeed, speed, angle of attack, etc.).  

It can also receive additional information from datalinks from AWACs aircraft, ground stations, and other aircraft.  The SVP-24 then computes an “envelope” (speed, altitude, course) inside which the dumb bombs are automatically released exactly at the precise moment when their unguided flight will bring them right over the target (with a 3-5m accuracy).

In practical terms this means that every 30+ year old Russian “dumb” bomb can now be delivered by a 30+ year old Russian aircraft with the same precision as a brand new guided bomb delivered by a top of the line modern bomber.

Not only that, but the pilot does not even have to worry about targeting anything.  He just enters the target’s exact coordinates into his system, flies within a defined envelope and the bombs are automatically released for him.  He can place his full attention on detecting any hostiles (aircraft, missiles, AA guns).  And the best part of this all is that this system can be used in high altitude bombing runs, well over the 5000m altitude which MANPADs cannot reach.  Finally, clouds, smoke, weather conditions or time of the day play no role in this whatsoever.

Last, but not least, this is a very *cheap* solution.  Russian can now use the huge stores of ‘dumb’ bombs they have accumulated during the Cold War, they can bring an infinite supply of such bombs to Syria and every one of them will strike with phenomenal accuracy.  And since the SVP-24 is mounted on the aircraft and not the bomb, it can be reused as often as needed.

http://thesaker.is/technology-sitrep-how-russian-engineering-made-the-current-operation-in-syria-possible/

very cost control way with a cheap bombs against terrorists