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    UAVs in Russian Armed Forces: News #2

    GarryB
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    Post  GarryB Thu Oct 27, 2022 3:35 pm

    Why ever not? it could be very cheap and use a basic piston/turboprop engine while allowing carrying a proper payload.

    Because such a big target would be trivial to shoot down, so why waste any sort of engine and airframe and HE payload on something that is going to get blown up mid air... it would make more sense using actual cheap target drones they use for training AD units fitted with heating elements and corner reflectors to give the impression they are bigger targets than they actually are to attract enemy fire.

    When the enemy launches weapons to attack your super cheap drones you can monitor them and their launch locations and either release weapons from much higher up in HALE or MALE drones, or send the coordinates for attacks by standoff weapons as soon as possible.

    Why **** around with a piston engine powered heavy aircraft bomb when their Navy like has hundreds if not thousands of old obsolete subsonic and supersonic anti ship missiles with half ton to a ton HE warheads.

    After these target drones deplete enemy air defence and standoff attacks deplete them even further then launch Kh-22s and lots of other older missiles no longer used... a simple upgrade with new guidance system was applied to all their anti ship missiles so upgrades for ancient obsolete models should be easy and cheap and compared to a piston powered drone maybe travelling at a few hundred km per hour, some AS-5 or AS-3 or AS-4, or even AS-1 or AS-2 is going to make a good sized crater, and using them up is cost effective and frees up space for newer stuff.

    The Soviets were good at that... even ancient AT guided missiles were used to drag out HE lines of charge for clearing minefields... nothing needs to go to waste.

    With precusion guided weapons, Orion is already very good. It can take out 4 targets.

    From altitude even a rocket pod carrying 16 x 57mm rockets with laser homing heads and perhaps a wing to glide a decent distance could be useful... the new 57mm rockets have much more substantial warheads and from heights a wing could greatly improve their reach, and of course the drone will already be equipped with optics and laser target marking equipment, but hopefully MALES and HALES will operate quietly just looking for targets and passing those on to lower flying drones or shorter ranged suicide drones or nearby friendly air power or artillery... the whole purpose of long endurance (the LE in both designations) is that it can remain on station for a day or more, but with ordinance that loiter time is reduced and the actual weight of what it could carry is not amazing... makes more sense to use it to find targets or the buildings they are operating from.

    Note a recent post on drones mentioned that Orc artillery was not immediately attacked when spotted because they wanted to observe them and learn the tactics they use and where they hide and where they rearm and repair so they can destroy those locations too.

    Blowing up one M777 gun is nice, but following it to the building where it is repaired and where ammo is stored and other M777s are based and trained crew to operate those gun units are all located so you can take it all out in a much bigger strike is even better... even if bombs and missiles hitting buildings is not as exciting as hitting M777s placed in the field.

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    Post  Mig-31BM2 Super Irbis-E Fri Oct 28, 2022 12:03 pm

    limb wrote:
    As Ukrs lack any serious optical tracking AA systems, what we have is an Arab wedding at full scale.
    They have plenty of optically tracked buks, starstreak, tunguska and at least 5 captured Tor-M2s.

    5?

    I count 1 system, one!
    Where are the other 4?

    Even if there are 5 ...
    The United States will have it 2x
    1x Israel,
    1x GB
    1x fra/ger

    No system will remain in Ukraine, none! Especially not active. They are all sent to the "military technical" units for evaluation and testing. Unfortunately..
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    Post  Mig-31BM2 Super Irbis-E Fri Oct 28, 2022 12:13 pm

    ALAMO wrote:I wouldn't overestimate the new Iranian stuff If I were you folks.
    Those bigger drones are nothing else than a cruise missiles, while lacking the stealth functions all along.
    What makes a difference for G2 is the fact, that it is extremely hard to lock on by the means other than optical and radar.
    As Ukrs lack any serious optical tracking AA systems, what we have is an Arab wedding at full scale.
    Separate incidents where they managed finally take out this flying moped is with the use of 9M38 missiles, which makes it extremely expensive trade out, or gunfire, which makes it a matter of luck rather than any serious calculation.
    As soon as Russkie will start to release heavier, jet powered drones - all the MANPADS Ukrs have in thousands will start to take them out.
    It is a relative slow moving target with standard radar signature and very simple jest engine that makes lots of heat.
    Still it would be a very good substitute to obviously more expensive mature cruise missiles in the Russian arsenal, at a fraction of costs.
    I'm just saying that expect the Ukr channels starting to present some bigger numbers of intercepted drones they seriously lacking now, as for the whole war we have an accountable number of interceptions of relatively old missiles like Ch-59, or some extremely rare pics of the other CMs that could be a malfunction either.

    The mistake is that they underestimate the Iranian ability, creativity and the situation again.

    The "Geran-2" is just the thing for this conflict in this current situation. Extremely difficult to get down, accurate and cheap and available in masses!

    Israel will get into her pants. You can't get 100 or 200 of them even with Torm2. Even if so, then 200 and then the light is out again. And then come all the other rockets, drones, etc.

    The best weapon is the one that works, is cheap and available in masses. If the Germans had had a monthly production of the Stug-III with the 7.5cm kWK 43 in 1941, the war would have been different from 300 units a month. Fortunately, it wasn't like that. And the Stug-III was not a miracle weapon.

    It was simple, it was cheap, it was reliable. It worked. That's exactly what the Iranians do.

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    Post  ALAMO Fri Oct 28, 2022 1:05 pm

    Sure they do.
    That reminded me of the Israeli position for Ukro beggers about the Iron Dome.
    Israelis are pragmatic either.
    Iron Dome is a system to intercept a mass attack of small, inexpensive and underdeveloped hand made missiles the Palestinians are throwing at them.
    As they said, it won't work for the technically matured air raid, as was not constructed to do so.
    It might prove effective to take out Grad salvo, but that would be much of it.
    As Russia is not using them for deliberate strikes on the civilian infrastructure - a whole concept is dumb. And made only for the reason to spread the conflict as wide as possible.
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    Post  limb Fri Oct 28, 2022 3:30 pm

    Mig-31BM2 Super Irbis-E wrote:
    limb wrote:
    As Ukrs lack any serious optical tracking AA systems, what we have is an Arab wedding at full scale.
    They have plenty of optically tracked buks, starstreak, tunguska and at least 5 captured Tor-M2s.

    5?

    I count 1 system, one!
    Where are the other 4?

    Even if there are 5 ...
    The United States will have it 2x
    1x Israel,
    1x GB
    1x fra/ger

    No system will remain in Ukraine, none! Especially not active. They are all sent to the "military technical" units for evaluation and testing. Unfortunately..
    Heres a tor captured in the olgino offensive.
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KdwW4NIZsXs
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    Post  Isos Fri Oct 28, 2022 4:34 pm

    The captured/destroyed were older version, tor or tor m1 that Ukraine also has.

    So nato already analyzed them since like 2014.

    And even if they have access to them, it's a SHORAD system. It will be turned on when the target is in engagement range and there is little you can do when it fires its missiles. Jamming at 10km away is useless. The radar will burn through any jamming at such distance.

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    Post  GarryB Sat Oct 29, 2022 11:22 am

    There is nothing ground breaking about TOR, its best feature is all the expensive radar and complexity and precision is in the vehicle so the missiles can be super cheap and used in enormous numbers.

    You can't get 100 or 200 of them even with Torm2. Even if so, then 200 and then the light is out again. And then come all the other rockets, drones, etc.

    Numbers problems require numbers solutions... a 30mm cannon on a BTR-82A with airburst rounds and laser range finder and ballistic computer means air targets can be engaged quickly and cheaply... but not just APCs and IFV and tanks, but also AD vehicles like the 2S38, and for that matter ATGMs like Kornet use the same target autotracking that TOR uses but uses a laser beam for the missile to ride instead of command guided for TOR missiles... then of course there are jammers and actual laser based weapons that physically destroy drones...

    Modern optical systems for rifles using laser rangefinders and ballistic computers could generate lead aim points to shoot down air targets with rifles and rifle calibre machine guns day or night...

    The use of drones by Azerbaijan against Armenia and NK shows an unprepared enemy is in serious trouble, but over time and with more and more use weaknesses are sought and found and their best features of low cost are either lost because they get shot down and can't perform their mission, or you have to make them more complex and expensive to survive so they are not so cheap any more so you can't make as many... or use them as widely.

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    Post  Podlodka77 Wed Nov 02, 2022 6:50 pm

    November 2, 10:00,
    updated November 2, 10:57

    "Kalashnikov" began deliveries to the Russian troops of the latest copter-type drones

    According to the head of the holding, drones are an important area of ​​the concern's work.

    MOSCOW, November 2. /TASS/. Concern "Kalashnikov" began supplying the Russian troops with the latest unmanned aerial vehicles (UAVs) of the copter type. This was announced to journalists on Wednesday by the head of the holding Alan Lushnikov.
    “We have not announced this, but we are already supplying copters to the army. This is a whole line. Some of them are already being produced and supplied in series. Some are in development and will be released next year. further. This is a very important area, and we are paying serious attention to it," Lushnikov said. As an example, the head of the concern cited the ZALA 421-24 copter from ZALA AERO (part of the Kalashnikov group of companies of the Rostec state corporation), presented at the Army 2022 forum.

    According to Rostec, this drone is capable of operating under electronic countermeasures and flying in complete radio silence.

    Concern "Kalashnikov" is the largest Russian manufacturer of combat automatic and sniper weapons. It is the flagship of the domestic small arms industry, it accounts for about 95% of the production of small arms in Russia. Products are supplied to more than 27 countries around the world.

    https://tass.ru/armiya-i-opk/16225181

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    Post  Podlodka77 Fri Nov 04, 2022 10:38 pm

    16:22 04.11.2022

    The source revealed the real name of the drones "Lancet"
    Versions of loitering ammunition of the Lancet project are called "Izdeliye-51" and "Izdeliye-52" IZDELIYE (PRODUCT)

    UAVs in Russian Armed Forces: News #2 - Page 36 15558810
    © RIA Novosti / Mikhail Voskresensky


    MOSCOW, November 4 - RIA Novosti. The real name of the Lancet loitering ammunition is Izdeliye-51 and Izdeliye-52, a source in the military-industrial complex told RIA Novosti on Friday.
    "The basic version of the device with a warhead of 3 kg and two X-shaped wings is called the Product-52, the upgraded drone with a warhead reinforced to 5 kg and one X-shaped wing was called the Product-51," the agency's interlocutor said.

    He clarified that "Lancet" is the name of the project, which is now irrelevant, but it has already been fixed as the name of the devices for the general public and therefore is used by developers for public events.
    Earlier on Friday, RIA Novosti published a selection of exclusive videos with the combat work of the Izdeliye-51 and Izdeliye-52 drones as part of a special military operation. In the videos, in particular, it was shown how self-propelled artillery mounts delivered to Ukraine from the United States are hit with the help of drones equipped with a cumulative part.

    https://ria.ru/20221104/lantset-1829238198.html

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    Post  GarryB Sat Nov 05, 2022 9:47 am

    Every missile and drone and bomb has a designation... in fact most have more than one, Izdeliye means product, so it is a product number, which the factory uses to keep track of the products it makes, such numbers are not used by the military who have their own names and numbers for their weapons...

    For instance the R-73 western codename Archer is a short range air to air missile with IR guidance.... its Izdeliye number is 72.... so when manufactured it would be called Izdeliye 72 by the factory, and the Air Force would call it K-73 until it is successful in getting the job and enters serial production where it gets the R-73 designation as an operational missile.

    The factory will still call it Izdeliye 72 though.

    There was a competing missile that had a fully thrust vectoring engine nozzle instead of spoilers and it was called K-30, and its Izdeliye number was 300.. but it was cancelled.

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    Post  Gazputin Sat Nov 05, 2022 4:00 pm

    uses as electric motor so is quiet and IR is low
    it is a nasty piece of work

    it says here its warhead is 3kgs
    so is similar to an RPG

    so I checked out the Kornet which makes mincemeat of MBTs
    it uses a 4.5kg warhead

    you can bet there is another bigger Lancet coming through soon .... a flying Kornet
    videos from that hitting those self-propelled howitzers will be spectacular ... that's for sure

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    Post  caveat emptor Sat Nov 05, 2022 9:30 pm

    Gazputin wrote:uses as electric motor so is quiet and IR is low
    it is a nasty piece of work

    it says here its warhead is 3kgs
    so is similar to an RPG

    so I checked out the Kornet which makes mincemeat of MBTs
    it uses a 4.5kg warhead

    you can bet there is another bigger Lancet coming through soon .... a flying Kornet
    videos from that hitting those self-propelled howitzers will be spectacular ... that's for sure
    Don't forget that Kornet missile has much higher kinetic energy due to its speed.
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    Post  Hole Sat Nov 05, 2022 11:30 pm

    According to some sources there is already a version with a 5kg warhead. Needs official confirmation.
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    Post  GarryB Sun Nov 06, 2022 10:18 am

    Technically for the target the Kornet is quieter because it is supersonic so the missile will impact just as the sound from its rocket motor can be heard by the target.

    The Kornet-EM comes in two models... one with a HE warhead and a range of 10km, and one with a heavier HEAT warhead with a range of 8.5km.

    The Russias equivalent of HIMARS... which they really don't have yet because HIMARS is about precision... it is not a MLRS, it is a precision guided short range Iskander with much smaller warhead that is easier to shoot down.... the true Russian equivalent of HIMARS is Hermes... it has 6 ready to fire missiles with a range of about 100km, good precision with terminal guidance and a 30kg warhead. The versions they are working on now the second stage is powered and manouvers making it much harder for air defences to shoot down.

    The Lancet looks very good and I suspect it comes in in a very shallow dive because its wings are enormous and it would be too easy to spot if it flew higher.

    Flying very low would make it an incredibly difficult target for enemy air defences and its short range means not very might time to deal with it before it hits its target.

    According to some sources there is already a version with a 5kg warhead. Needs official confirmation.

    There was an article earlier on this page that mentioned numbered versions of Lancet... one with a 5kg HE frag warhead and one with a 3kg HEAT warhead... and I think the 5kg warhead version was the older number.

    For an anti tank missile you want to be able to penetrate the frontal armour of the heaviest targets on the battlefield, but for a suicide drone you want to penetrate armour but also spread fragments and fire where possible... anti tank missiles are generally supersonic and attack which ever side of the enemy armour that presents itself, but a suicide drone can attack from any angle so higher armour penetration is not critical... what destroys an enemy self propelled artillery vehicle like an M109 is setting the ammo and propellent on fire and its thin armour means unless it has already fired off all its ammo even a 3kg warhead should get a fire going... and once that happens all the surviving crew can do is get the hell out of there.

    Some shots show ground impacts opposite where the drone explodes meaning the HEAT plasma penetrated the entire vehicle and exited the rear... or the angle was bad and missed the target completely and skimmed over top... it is hard to tell from above... but either way a bigger warhead is not going to improve from that.

    Knowing they are constantly under attack is a new sort of stress for the enemy... like a sniper that can shoot through armour and kill you at any time...
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    Post  Podlodka77 Tue Nov 15, 2022 6:33 am

    November 14, 23:30,
    updated November 14, 23:34

    The UAC has patented a system that allows fighter jets to pick up and release drones on the fly

    "The invention can be used on aircraft such as fighters, transport aircraft, strategic bombers, etc.," the text of the patent says.

    MOSCOW, 15 November. /TASS/. The United Aircraft Corporation (UAC, part of the Rostec state corporation) has patented an aircraft mooring system that can be used to capture and retract unmanned aerial vehicles (UAVs) into the on-board compartment on the fly, as well as release them. This follows from a patent for an invention distributed by the Federal Institute of Industrial Property (available to TASS).

    "The invention relates to the aircraft industry and can be used in the design of equipping aircraft with unmanned aerial vehicles, namely, to a system and method for capturing and cleaning an unmanned aerial vehicle in the cargo compartment of an aircraft, as well as to the mooring unit of this system. <...> The invention can find application on aircraft such as fighters, transport aircraft, strategic bombers, etc.," the text of the patent says.

    System Features

    The basis of the system is a folding frame, the fastening part of which is fixed in the internal space of the cargo compartment of the aircraft and connected by a rotary part to the space frame. The space frame consists of two parallel beams connected by arched transverse members. In addition, the system includes a mooring cone, as well as a primary contact cone attached to the end of the rope, the other end of which is attached to the winder.

    When approaching the UAV, the aircraft ejects the folding frame from the cargo compartment, after which the cable is released with a primary contact cone at the end. The drone must fly up to this cone, engage with it with a contact pin and lock into it with a lock, after which the cable will begin to pull up. The developers point out the need to equip the UAV with a cable tension control system that would ensure its design tension and reduce the likelihood of buildup if this tension is exceeded.

    When the UAV comes under the arches of the frame, laid out at an angle of three degrees to the horizontal plane, the primary contact cone enters the mooring cone and is fixed in it with grippers. After that, the frame deviates by three degrees to the horizontal plane, as a result of which the locks on the frame are coupled with the counterparts on the drone. When the drone is docked, the frame folds up, tucking it into the cargo hold of the aircraft and locking it in the stowed position locks.

    The developers note that the system can also be used to separate the drone while flying at any height, however, during this process, the UAV is fixed in the system by a compression mechanism, and not by a contact pin in the primary contact cone.
    "After issuing a command to detach the unmanned aerial vehicle, the folding frame is unfolded, after which the engines of the unmanned aerial vehicle are started, its wings are opened, all the necessary systems are launched, and after receiving a command about the normal functioning of all systems, the command to detach is confirmed, the locks are opened, located on a spatial frame, and the unmanned aerial vehicle is separated from the folding frame," the document states.

    "After issuing a command to detach the unmanned aerial vehicle, the folding frame is unfolded, after which the engines of the unmanned aerial vehicle are started, its wings are opened, all the necessary systems are launched, and after receiving a command about the normal functioning of all systems, the command to detach is confirmed, the locks are opened, located on a spatial frame, and the unmanned aerial vehicle is separated from the folding frame," the document states.

    https://tass.ru/armiya-i-opk/16322991

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    Post  limb Tue Nov 15, 2022 7:02 pm

    Why isnt russia serially producing quadcopters that drop mortar bombs and grenades yet?They're an excellent trench clearing tool, as sparta videos show. ukraine has a huge amount of heavy quadcopters dropping mortar shells, while russians are stuck with mavics that can only drop F1 grenades at best.
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    Post  GarryB Wed Nov 16, 2022 9:17 am

    Increasing the weight of ordinance reduces endurance and range... but how do you know they are not producing them right now?

    If the range of the quadcopter is less than 5-6km with a mortar bomb hung underneath it then it just makes more sense to use a quadcopter with no ordinance and a 120mm mortar team to attack the targets the quadcopter locates and it can remain loitering near the enemy to walk the rounds in to the targets.

    BTW that drone release and capture system for transport aircraft, bombers and fighters sounds rather interesting... hard to visualise... understandable for a transport plane or helicopter with a rear ramp door, but for bombers and fighters not so easy to visualise.

    Would be interesting to see what they could do to the drones they pick up and release... imagine launching dozens of high flying drones with small bomb payloads and then fly a transport plane down through the area to pick up the drones and refuel and rearm them and release them.

    The transport plane might be an An-124 so you could say fly it to Afghanistan or Syria... it releases 5 or 6 drones with their own operators on board the transport plane and each attacks their own targets and then are recovered again on the transport and rearmed for further attacks and then recovered and flown back to Russian bases.

    For larger targets a Gefest and T bombing computing system could allow another transport to accompany the drone ship and any significant target where a 20kg bomb or 57mm guided rocket is not powerful enough to get the job done, the other transport can roll a 1.5 ton bomb out the back of the cargo bay... or 250kg or 500kg or even 3 or 5 or 9 ton bomb depending on the target... perhaps even the FOABs... or perhaps the bomber cargo plane could be replaced with Tu-22M3Ms or Tu-160s depending on the flight distances.
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    Post  Krepost Thu Nov 17, 2022 12:20 am

    Courtesy of ROGOZIN

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    Post  thegopnik Thu Nov 17, 2022 12:56 am

    Krepost wrote:Courtesy of ROGOZIN


    UGV launching UAV was dope. thanks for video.
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    Post  Hole Thu Nov 17, 2022 6:03 pm

    1. The small drone that can flip to 90° to start/land vertically or even fly like a helicopter or a plane looks interesting.

    2. The teathered multicopter could be the model that is planned for the T-14.

    3. The small tube-launched drone looked promising. Heavier models with warheads, please.  Very Happy

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    Post  Podlodka77 Mon Nov 21, 2022 11:27 am

    November 20, 23:37

    In Russia, for the first time, the Shershen quadrocopter was shown to suppress drones with ultrasound

    Vitaly Dolgov, head of the laboratory for external piloting and operation of unmanned aircraft at NIIVK, said that the device can be used to disperse riots

    MOSCOW, 21 November. /TASS/. The Shershen quadrocopter, designed to suppress unmanned aerial vehicles (UAVs) and disperse riots using ultrasound, was first presented at the Aeronet-2035 exhibition in Moscow. This was told to TASS by the head of the laboratory of external piloting and operation of unmanned aircraft of the Scientific Research Institute of Computing Systems (NIIVK) named after V.I. M. A Kartseva Vitaly Dolgov.

    The exhibition, which demonstrates UAVs and Russian-made suppression systems, is being held from November 17 to 27 at VDNKh. "The Shershen quadrocopter is presented for the first time, it is a new prototype, work is still underway. An interesting direction, a dual-purpose device with an ultrasound payload, radar suppression," Dolgov said. According to him, the quadcopter can be used to suppress drones and disperse riots.

    As Dolgov noted, the Shershen is a short-range drone, up to 10 km. “Now we are testing a coating for a quadrocopter that will reflect radars. This should be its peculiarity. If you look at the sample presented at the exhibition, it seems to be painted all over. This is a special paint that will reflect the radar,” he noted.

    Dolgov stressed that "Shershen" can be used in the oil and gas sector to control the condition of oil and gas pipelines, environmental monitoring. In addition, the creators of the quadrocopter are planning to use it in emergency response: to detect sources of emergencies, assess damage, and monitor restoration work.

    NIIVK them. M. A. Kartseva is an enterprise of the radio-electronic industry of Russia, carrying out scientific research and development in the field of digital technology, control systems and information technologies. The Institute specializes in the creation of hardware and software for solving the problems of transport, industry, energy and other industries.

    https://tass.ru/armiya-i-opk/16381783

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