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    UAVs in Russian Armed Forces: News #2

    GarryB
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    Post  GarryB Mon Jan 09, 2023 10:13 pm

    Switching production to double shifts probably allowed them to double drone production and reach those numbers. As for each complex having 6 aircraft instead of 3 it might be that they figured out that was more optimal given the amount of operators they had and command nodes they can produce.

    I wonder if they changed the system to control twice as many drones at one time... which would require more control stations and more control channels or if they just added the extra drones for combat persistence (ie one drone flying and one drone recharging and getting repairs), and to allow for combat losses so the unit could operate longer.

    Videos taken by newly built ZALA drones.

    Media too big.
    caveat emptor
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    Post  caveat emptor Tue Jan 10, 2023 12:06 am

    @Garry
    Install telegram. It can be installed without phone number and then you can open it on your computer.
    lancelot
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    Post  lancelot Tue Jan 10, 2023 2:48 am

    ... telegram ... can be installed without phone number
    Good luck with that.
    caveat emptor
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    Post  caveat emptor Tue Jan 10, 2023 3:54 am

    New feature:
    https://www.livemint.com/technology/apps/telegram-brings-new-update-no-phone-number-needed-for-sign-up-more-features-11670403019183.html
    Or, he can install it with Google Voice number.
    lancelot
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    Post  lancelot Tue Jan 10, 2023 4:28 am

    Oh great. So I need to purchase a crypto token for as low as $40 USD to over $61,850 USD via auction. No thanks. Screw Pavel Durov. He is already a billionaire.
    https://gizmodo.com/telegram-crypto-sim-username-1849864506

    And a Google Voice number is still a phone number. It is just that it is a virtual one. Plus Google Voice still needs a goodamned US phone number.

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    sepheronx
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    Post  sepheronx Tue Jan 10, 2023 4:46 am

    Pavel Durov was a real scumbag. I remember his little stunts of the past including throwing a fit when Russian authorities demanded keys but he didn't make a sound when Germany and others demanded the keys.

    Guy also kept threatening to leave Russia because "oh I'm being oppressed" when authorities were clamping down on him and his bullshit antics.

    I wouldn't give that fraud a kopek.

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    franco
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    Post  franco Sat Jan 14, 2023 2:34 pm

    Russian winged kamikaze Sacrificing itself, the "Lancet" destroys the enemy

    The active development in a number of states of such a class of high-precision weapons as loitering ammunition (AP) prompted the Russian military department and domestic companies - developers of weapons and military equipment to pay close attention to this topic.

    Unlike unmanned aerial vehicles, in the field of development, serial production and use of which our country was one of the pioneers and trendsetters, but after the well-known events of the early 1990s, it lost its positions, in the field of creating loitering ammunition, Moscow entered the fight far from first. Nevertheless, in the work in this area, domestic specialists have already achieved some success, and the created samples of kamikaze drones are at the level of world analogues.

    "CUBE-BLA"

    Apparently, the KUB-BLA device should be considered the firstborn in the Russian family of loitering ammunition. It was his demonstration in open expositions of international exhibitions of weapons and military equipment that became the starting point for the history of Russian kamikaze drones.

    The KUB-BLAH type AP was developed by ZALA AERO (part of the Kalashnikov Concern JSC) for the operational engagement of various types of remote targets. The international debut of the first-born of the domestic defense industry in this area of ​​high-precision weapons took place at the beginning of 2019 at the international exhibition IDEX 2019, held in the capital of the United Arab Emirates, Abu Dhabi.

    “This complex is a step towards a completely new warfare. We confidently keep in the forefront among the countries producing such weapons, - the words of the General Director of the Rostec State Corporation Sergey Chemezov are quoted in a press release published on February 17, 2019 on the official website of the Kalashnikov Concern. – A high-precision unmanned projectile flies up to 30 minutes at a speed of 130 km/h. The charge on this complex is delivered to the target, regardless of its secrecy and terrain - both at low and at high altitudes. This is a very accurate and extremely effective weapon, which is very difficult to fight with traditional air defense systems.”

    This kamikaze drone is designed according to the aircraft scheme with a pushing propeller. Its length is just over 1.2 m, and the wingspan is 0.95 m. According to the developer company, the KUB-BLA loitering ammunition can stay in the air for up to 30 minutes, flying at speeds of 80–130 km/h and carrying a payload of about 3 kg. The device is launched from a catapult.

    “The strike unmanned complex delivers a special load at the target coordinates, which are set manually or from an image from the target load of guidance,” emphasizes the website of the ZALA AERO group of companies. It is noted that the advantages of this type of loitering ammunition include high accuracy, hidden launch, noiselessness and ease of use.

    Judging by the photo and video materials available in the public domain, the KUB-BLAH BB was used during a special military operation in Ukraine. But more actively to destroy various targets, including mobile ones, Russian military personnel use kamikaze drones of the Lancet family.

    Smashing "lancets"

    In light of the active use of BBs in recent years in a number of hot spots, including Syria and Libya, as well as in the recent conflict in the Transcaucasus, where these weapons proved to be effective weapons, a new powerful round should be expected in the history of the development of kamikaze drones. Moreover, in a number of countries of the world, projects in this area have already been given the green light.

    Russian developers strictly follow global trends, and often even outpace them. It is in this light that it is worth considering the creation by ZALA AERO, which is part of Kalashnikov Concern JSC, of ​​the ZALA Lancet BB family. The premiere show of this family took place in June 2019, on the eve of the opening of the Army-2019 International Military-Technical Forum. As a result, during the work of this exhibition, various potential customers, including foreign ones, could get acquainted with the latest domestic developments in this class of high-precision weapons.

    It should be especially noted that the Lancet is not an ordinary classic BB, but (as indicated in the article “The Lancet strike drone: a spear of the XXI century”, published on August 30, 2019 on the website of the state corporation Rostec) “an intelligent multi-tasking weapon, which is capable of independently finding a given target and hitting it.

    The complex includes a high-precision striker, as well as reconnaissance, navigation and communications modules. It creates its own navigation field and does not require the creation of land or sea infrastructure, as emphasized in this article.

    "Lancet" is not one sample of the class of high-precision weapons under consideration, but, as already mentioned, the BB family. Initially, according to the information provided in the video presentation by the developer, it included the Lancet-1, which has a takeoff weight of 5 kg and can carry a payload of 1 kg, and the Lancet-3, which has a takeoff weight of 12 kg and can carry a payload of 3 kg.

    A rather small mass of devices, according to the developers, is provided due to the widespread use of plastics and composite materials in their design. Apparently, "Lancet-3" was defined as the basic model, and "Lancet-1" - as its smaller and lighter version for use on smaller targets.

    The first sample of this family has the ability to develop a flight speed of about 80-110 km / h and can fly for up to 30 minutes. Whereas the second device at the same speed is capable of flying for up to 40 minutes. The radius of destruction of targets for both loitering ammunition of the Lancet family is about 40 km.

    Both devices are equipped with a warhead with a pre-contact fuse, several types of guidance systems (coordinate system, guidance system using optoelectronic means and a combined guidance system), as well as a television communication channel, which allows for reliable image transmission along the flight route and in the target area. to the operator's control panel. That allows you to reliably confirm the success of the defeat of the target chosen for the attack.

    A distinctive feature of both representatives of the Lancet family is that their control system allows you to aim the BB at the target using target designation data received from other aircraft. For example, reconnaissance drones, which are equipped with highly sensitive multi-channel reconnaissance and surveillance systems. As a result, the Lancets themselves do not even need to use their navigation system, since APs can be aimed at the target by reconnaissance drones within the framework of the navigation mesh formed by the latter.

    In terms of design, the BBs of the Lancet family are built according to an interesting aerodynamic scheme - with a double X-shaped wing. Such a scheme provides more effective controllability when flying at high speeds than in the case of a large span and larger wing area. It is used on high-precision weapons of this class for the first time in the world.

    “Double X is our absolute know-how. When diving and maneuvering, such a scheme behaves much better, besides, the dimensions of the product are greatly reduced, ”the words of ZALA AERO CEO Alexander Zakharov are quoted in the above-mentioned article“ Lancet strike drone: spear of the XXI century.

    As a power plant on the BB of the Lancet family, electric motors are used, which rotate one pushing propeller located in the tail section of the vehicle. “ZALA manufactures all modern unmanned aerial vehicles with electric motors. On board the Lancet there is also an electric motor, and on the hull there is a familiar image of a green leaf, - the article emphasizes. “However, the use of an electric motor in this case is not only a concern for the environment, but also invisibility. Electric motors are out of competition for acoustic invisibility. In addition, they are more reliable, lighter and more compact.”

    The launch of the "Lancets" is carried out from a catapult similar to that used to launch the KUB-BLAH type AP. This makes it possible to ensure a higher degree of unification when using the systems of high-precision tactical weapons under consideration in the troops.

    According to reports, successfully passed tests for the use of "Lancets" for their intended purpose from sea carriers - combat surface ships (boats) of various classes and types. Which greatly expands the range of scenarios for the combat use of these kamikaze drones. Videos from such tests appeared in the public domain at the end of 2021.

    UKRAINE IS DIGITIZED

    Recently, information has appeared in the open press that the basic version of the loitering ammunition, adopted by the Armed Forces of the Russian Federation, received the designation "Product-52". In addition, based on the results of the combat use of the basic versions of the Lancets, a modernized version was created by the developer company, which received the designation "Product-51" and differs from its predecessor in terms of design (instead of two equal X-shaped wings, it has one large main X-shaped wing and a small X-shaped plumage in the tail), and is also equipped with a more powerful warhead.

    “The basic version of the device with a warhead of 3 kg and two X-shaped wings is called “Product-52”, the upgraded drone with a warhead reinforced to 5 kg and one X-shaped wing was called “Product-51,” it is indicated with reference to a source in the domestic military-industrial complex in the RIA Novosti article “The source revealed the real name of the Lancet drones on November 4, 2022.

    As part of a special military operation in Ukraine, APs of this family are regularly used to destroy various enemy targets - both stationary and mobile, that is, those on the move (on the march). In particular, the Ministry of Defense of the Russian Federation and other sources posted video and photographic materials in the public domain, indicating the use of "Lancets" to destroy such targets as armored combat vehicles (main tanks, self-propelled artillery mounts, infantry fighting vehicles), towed artillery systems ( including the American M777 howitzers, nicknamed the "Three Axes"), engineering equipment, etc. The use of this AP was also recorded on at least one enemy combat boat.

    Separately, it should be noted that the specialists of ZALA AERO have developed not only the complex of high-precision weapons based on the loitering ammunition of the Lancet family, but also created a special simulator for training specialists in its combat use. The simulator is fully built on the use of the virtual reality environment and does not require the use of real WBs. This significantly reduces the cost, reduces time and simplifies the process of training operators of these weapons.

    Moreover, as reported in a RIA Novosti note dated November 12, 2022, a map of the territory of Ukraine was digitized to train operators of the Izdeliye-51 and Izdeliye-52 loitering ammunition. “In order to ensure the training of cadets as close as possible to combat conditions in our training center, a map of the entire territory of Ukraine was digitized. This allows our drone simulators, including the Izdeliye-51 and Izdeliye-52 loitering munitions, to simulate missions for operators on real terrain in the special operation zone,” the note says, citing the developer company.

    In conclusion, it should be specifically noted that the Lancet family of APs are distinguished not only by their modern shock filling, but also have a high degree of protection against the means of combating unmanned aerial vehicles and APs used today. In particular, they are equipped with a built-in anti-laser protection system, which provides them with higher efficiency compared to their counterparts.

    https://nvo-ng-ru.translate.goog/realty/2023-01-12/1_1220_kamikaze.html?_x_tr_sl=ru&_x_tr_tl=en&_x_tr_hl=en

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    franco
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    Post  franco Thu Jan 19, 2023 12:14 pm

    Russian "Outpost": how "run-in" in Syria drones are fighting in Ukraine

    Videos of the combat use of Forpost-R unmanned aerial vehicles by the Russian Armed Forces during a special military operation in Ukraine began to regularly appear on the network. Gazeta.Ru dealt with the features of this UAV.

    It should be especially noted that in a number of cases the use of the Forpost-R UAV was noted not only as a means of conducting aerial reconnaissance, but also in the strike version. Let's try to figure out what the activation of the use of this type of apparatus is connected with.

    Forpost unmanned systems have been successfully used in the Russian Armed Forces for more than 10 years . They have proven themselves well, including during the armed conflict in Syria . The Russian military has repeatedly acknowledged the fact that Forposts have long been the most capable drones they have in their arsenal. The long flight duration, significant range, high-quality optoelectronic equipment of this type of UAV provided the implementation of such capabilities that Russian UAVs did not have before.

    For several years, Forposts were assembled in Russia under an Israeli license from foreign components. This approach was justified by the fact that it was necessary to quickly close the existing gaps in equipping the troops with modern UAVs. It also made it possible to better understand the place and role of unmanned systems in the troops, to gain experience in their use, in order to then more consciously formulate the requirements for advanced systems.

    “However, it is also clear that in the long term, the use of such an approach was not possible. Firstly, it limited the capabilities of the Russian military to those systems that foreign partners were ready to supply. Secondly, it would lead to the stagnation of domestic developments.

    As a result, the change in the international situation prompted the need to create a Russian version of the UAV,” Denis Fedutinov , editor-in-chief of the Unmanned Aviation magazine, told Gazeta.ru .

    Initially, the Forpost-M version was created - a modernized version based on the Israeli prototype. At this stage, it was possible to remove several artificial restrictions set by the developer, expanding the functionality of the apparatus from purely observational tasks to tasks of determining the coordinates of targets, which, in turn, made it possible to adapt it to the requirements of a military operator.

    “In addition, the unmanned aerial vehicle was able to use data from the domestic GLONASS satellite navigation system, was equipped with a secure communication line and a state identification system. A number of other significant improvements were also made,” said Denis Fedutinov.

    At the same time, the creation of such a variant of the Forpost was an intermediate step, since it did not fully solve the main problem - the vulnerability of the supply of components from changes in the political situation. And this much more significant task was solved at the next stage of modernization, as a result of which a purely domestic version of this UAV was created, which received the name "Outpost-R".
    It can be noted that on the way to this version, a deep modernization of the base model was carried out and a complete replacement of the used foreign-made subsystems with domestic counterparts was implemented.

    “At the same time, the appearance of the drone remained generally the same. The device is built according to the same two-beam scheme with a straight wing. The maximum take-off weight of the device has slightly increased. She, according to reports, began to reach 450 kg. At the same time, the airframe of the apparatus is made entirely of composite materials,” said Denis Fedutinov.

    The UAV is driven by a domestic engine, the power of which was increased to 85 hp. With. It rotates a two-bladed propeller of the original design. The radius of application of Forpost-R exceeds 150 km. The speed of the drone is from 120 to 180 km / h, the maximum flight duration is 18 hours, the practical ceiling is about 6 thousand meters.

    The complex uses only Russian on-board radio-electronic equipment, including digital communication channels and controls, as well as domestic software.

    During the modernization of the complex, its functionality was also expanded. The mass of the payload of the Russian "Forpost" can reach 120 kilograms. It may include domestic gyro-stabilized optoelectronic systems.

    Among the possible options for a product developed by the Ural Optical and Mechanical Plant (part of the Shvabe holding of the Rostec state corporation). The version turned out to be quite compact, which made it possible to keep the mass of the UAV approximately within the same limits as it was originally. It is also worth noting that the equipment of specific intelligence can be supplemented by an electronic intelligence system.

    “In addition to surveillance equipment, the drone under the letter “P” in the name also got the opportunity to carry weapons. The mass of aviation weapons placed on two external hardpoints can be several tens of kilograms,” Denis Fedutinov emphasized.

    As part of the armament, in particular, the KAB-20 adjustable aerial bomb, created by specialists from the Moscow Central Research Institute of Chemistry and Mechanics (TsNIIKhM) as part of the Ballistics-2 research work, can be used.
    With a total weight of 21 kg, the bomb is equipped with a high-explosive fragmentation warhead weighing 7 kg and can be used to destroy lightly armored vehicles and enemy manpower. KAB-20 guidance is provided both by the laser beam and by the coordinates of the satellite navigation system. It was also reported that in addition to bombs, Forpost can use anti-tank missiles.

    The UAV completed its first flight in 2019. In 2020, Russian Deputy Defense Minister Alexei Krivoruchko announced that in December 2019, the Russian military department signed the first contract for the production and supply of ten Forpost-R complexes to the troops.

    In August 2021, it became known about the delivery of two more systems with six Forpost-R unmanned aerial vehicles. It is known that at the same time, Defense Minister Sergei Shoigu instructed to conclude a long-term contract for the production of UAVs of this type. Further volumes of deliveries were not made public. However, we can confidently say that the troops need several hundred more such systems.

    In conditions as close as possible to combat, the novelty was tested at the Zapad-2021 exercises, where the complex received high marks from the operators. It was during these events that famous shots were made, which demonstrated the use of weapons by the Forpost.

    The first official reports on the use of the Forpost-R UAV in Ukraine appeared in mid-March 2022. Then, with its help, the illumination and guidance radar (RPN) of the S-300 anti-aircraft missile system of the anti-aircraft missile forces of Ukraine was destroyed. At the same time, the unmanned vehicle itself was at an altitude of about 4 thousand meters, that is, it was outside the zone of destruction of man-portable anti-aircraft missile systems.

    Based on the experience of the combat use of the Russian Forpost, we can conclude that it has established itself not only as an effective means of unmanned aerial reconnaissance, but also as a fairly effective weapon for delivering high-precision strikes against sensitive ground targets.

    “The news surge associated with the use of the Forpost-R UAV in Ukraine may be evidence of the intensification of the supply of these systems to the troops. Indeed, it has been repeatedly said about the need to increase the order for drones against the backdrop of the ongoing special operation,” Denis Fedutinov believes.

    First, it is obvious that it is necessary to increase the use of unmanned vehicles in reconnaissance and strike missions as solutions to avoid personnel losses. Secondly, combat operations are inevitably associated with the loss of drones, which must also be taken into account in order plans.

    “Any combat use of one or another type of weapon allows you to identify weaknesses in technical systems, determine the need for improvements, etc. Moreover, it allows you to do this much faster and more objectively than with any tests in a peacetime environment. The experience of the Syrian campaign made it possible to formulate a list of necessary corrections and additions for the developers of Russian UAVs. An even larger array of data is provided by a special military operation, ”concludes Denis Fedutinov, editor-in-chief of the Unmanned Aviation magazine.

    The fighting in Ukraine is radically different from the conflicts of recent decades in that the warring parties use the widest range of fairly modern weapons and military equipment, including UAV systems and systems to counter them. The intensity of actions is quite high. According to the expert, in this regard, circumstances provide invaluable experience, which, if used correctly, can be the basis for a qualitative leap in the development of domestic unmanned vehicles.

    https://www-gazeta-ru.translate.goog/army/2023/01/17/16098919.shtml?_x_tr_sl=ru&_x_tr_tl=en&_x_tr_hl=en

    NOTE: the Forpost system complex has 3 UAV's. Plans originally where for 30 some systems.

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    Post  GarryB Fri Jan 20, 2023 1:52 am

    Interesting, when Russia started using drones that looked rather like Iranian drones the west demanded action... why no similar demands when Russia clearly uses drones that look exactly like Israeli drones?

    Note when flying at 4km altitude you can imagine that anything on the ground is therefore a bare minimum of 4km away which would be directly below the drone and anything 2-3km in front of it will be even further away, so high quality optics are a must, along with secure communications links.

    At 4km altitude you would be out of small arms range and MANPADS would not be able to lock such a small target with such a weak IR signature, so you would be relatively safe.

    Of course one interesting option might be to fit them with weapons to be used against enemy drones also operating at that height... a MANPADS launched from the ground wont hit drones at that height but MANPADS launched from a similar altitude from perhaps 1km away would be seriously dangerous to most medium sized drones... and for very small drones used to drop hand grenades then a very manouverable drone perhaps with 12 gauge automatic shotguns mounted down the centreline with large drum feeds or perhaps a belt feed mechanism, but to be effective it would need to close within 20-30m of the target so powerful airbrakes and high speed would be useful.

    Maybe the best solution would be a very strongly built UAV that can be used for ramming attacks to destroy enemy drones...
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    Post  limb Sat Jan 21, 2023 4:09 pm

    Now that the ukraine is using tiny quadcopter racing drones as loitering munitions, thus exploiting holes in russian AD, would shotguns help russian troops in shooting them down? They would seem cheaper and less obstructive than SAMs, proxy fuze autocannon ammo or EW respectively. Russian troops can get some training with shooting ceramic skeets with birdshot. They could be issued semiautomatic saiga shotguns, which have commonality with the AK and have high RoF.  Also they can be used to harass or shoot down dji quadcopters flying too low instead of wasting rifle ammo.
    Theyre very fragile and will get destabilized by birdshot. Also rifle ammo isnt very effective, even if in automatic mode against small flying targets, no matter how slow. To little projectiles.

    Would that be a possible solution?
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    Post  Isos Sat Jan 21, 2023 5:13 pm

    Not really. They come from the top unseen. Soldiers with their protections and all the warzone noises can't detect them on time.

    They also release grenande from pretty high making it even harder to detect.

    Problem is to detect them. You can see on all the videos of such attacks that soldier below the drone don't even know they are targeted.
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    Post  limb Sat Jan 21, 2023 5:23 pm

    I mean thers plenty of footage of both ukrainian and russian soldiers shooting at quadcopters to no avail. A shotgun would help. The footage of ukrainian racing quadcopters attacking a russian bmp shows it following it horizontally. The russian troops see it, shoot at it, but they cant hit it with AKs.
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    Post  lyle6 Sat Jan 21, 2023 6:28 pm

    Electronic Warfare. Trace/track the control signal back to the source, and shell the shit out of the operator. Invert the uber cheap quadrocopter + grenade combo to a high risk / low reward tactic. You aren't losing drones, you're losing trained crews trying to score a few dudes per pass at best.

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    Post  limb Sat Jan 21, 2023 7:17 pm

    EW against quadcopter drones also jams friendly quadcopters. Nobody, not even the russians have figured out how to not jam small drones indiscriminately. GPS jamming is also inherently indiscriminate.

    Not all parts of the front can be covered by EW assets.

    Tracking datalinks of tiny quadcopters in a battlefield is sci fi.
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    Post  lyle6 Sat Jan 21, 2023 8:01 pm

    If only those stupid Russians figured out radios and clocks so they can coordinate the actions of their jammers and drones so as to avoid friendly fire... nah, they're too stupid, unlike our friend here. Rolling Eyes

    And drone control signals are... signals. To get an accurate bearing all you need is an appropriate receiver and a highly directional antenna. Hell, some commercial manufacturers even embed the pilot's GPS information to allow the drone to return home. Rolling Eyes

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    Post  Hole Sat Jan 21, 2023 8:31 pm

    Be careful, all this eye rolling can make you dizzy.  Laughing

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    Post  limb Sun Jan 22, 2023 12:06 am

    Ah yes because coordinating drones and EW is so easy right? What if one unit wants EW against enemy drones but another urgently needs drone observation to correct artillery on an enemy column before it escapes? You basically admit drones cannot fly at the same time as EW.

    Also why do you think anti-drone EW is available to 100% of russian units? If that were true, we wouldnt be seeing any vids taken from ukrainian quadcopters or suicide drones.

    And drone control signals are... signals. To get an accurate bearing all you need is an appropriate receiver and a highly directional antenna. Hell, some commercial manufacturers even embed the pilot's GPS information to allow the drone to return home.

    And what make you think the russian kill chain is short enough to give the order to fire artillery at where the drone is controlled at in time?
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    Post  lyle6 Sun Jan 22, 2023 5:30 am

    limb wrote:Ah yes because coordinating drones and EW is so easy right? What if one unit wants EW against enemy drones but another urgently needs drone observation to correct artillery on an enemy column before it escapes? You basically admit drones cannot fly at the same time as EW.
    EW comes in many spectrums aside from barrage jamming and there are many nuances in terms of effects. Might even come as a shock that Russian UAVs carry jamming suites on their own all the time too.



    limb wrote:Also why do you think anti-drone EW is available to 100% of russian units? If that were true, we wouldnt be seeing any vids taken from ukrainian quadcopters or suicide drones.
    So, according to you a defense is useless if it doesn't work 100% of the time? Ok.

    limb wrote:And what make you think the russian kill chain is short enough to give the order to fire artillery at where the drone is controlled at in time?
    They can deflect rounds as they hit in real-time. That's as fast as you can get.

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    Post  GarryB Sun Jan 22, 2023 10:34 am

    They could be issued semiautomatic saiga shotguns, which have commonality with the AK and have high RoF. Also they can be used to harass or shoot down dji quadcopters flying too low instead of wasting rifle ammo.

    Saiga shotguns would be excellent but the core problem is their lack of effective range... most shotgun rounds are ineffective at more than 40m and different cartridge options would offer very different results... it essentially boils down to birdshot, buckshot, and solid slugs... solid slugs are just firing a single projectile at a target with each shot so essentially a rifle or carbine.

    Mounted in a drone where it could be flown up rather close... 10-20m away and birdshot and buckshot mix would offer the high density of the smaller pellet that can damage very lightly built targets and perhaps shatter propellers, with the lower density heavier buckshot with fewer projectiles headed down range but able to hit the target harder and do rather more damage. Saiga shotguns can be fitted with a 25 round drum without modification and launched to chase targets and come back down to be reloaded on the front line. In close quarters a shotgun blast to the upper body with buckshot is not something most people could shrug off, but the ammo is bulky and you have little control of where the projectiles actually hit. At 20m you can draw a circle about 1m across and inside that circle there will be 8-12 or so buckshot acting very similarly to 9mm makarov rounds fired in a burst from a SMG... one shot might not get past the body armour to but two or three shots is going to do damage.

    Firing at a target in the same room or in a trench or shooting off the hinges of a door to kick in and shotguns are great, but I suspect on the front line against drones they would lack range.

    If you see it coming you can even shoot grenades out of the air but if your shot detonates the grenade then you might be in trouble anyway...

    A shotgun is a very versatile weapon but in war to kill people there is only buckshot and solid slug... and the ammo is bulky and awkward.

    They also release grenande from pretty high making it even harder to detect.

    Another issue, they see you deploying shot guns to shoot them down they will just fly higher out of range.

    I mean thers plenty of footage of both ukrainian and russian soldiers shooting at quadcopters to no avail. A shotgun would help. The footage of ukrainian racing quadcopters attacking a russian bmp shows it following it horizontally. The russian troops see it, shoot at it, but they cant hit it with AKs.

    It would certainly be worth testing because a lot of the smaller drones are very fragile, but I think lack of range would be a problem.

    Fitting the shotgun to a drone and flying up over friendly troops hunting enemy drones on the other hand would be rather good... fly up to 10-15 metres and then fire a burst of shotgun shells... use a mix of buckshot and birdshot for best results the birdshot will have hundreds of small pellets and at 10-15m they will likely shatter propellers and light plastic structures, while the buckshot is much much heavier but also rather fewer per shell but at close range of 10-15m many of the pellets should hit what you are aiming at and be devastating...

    I would say a new 40mm grenade with front directed fragments and a fuse that detonates the grenade after it has travelled 20-30m so it creates a forward directed cone of fragments and blast... as you approach the target drone launch a grenade and bam.

    A 40mm grenade with a radio command sensor in its tail so you can command detonate them in flight with the ability to detonate the round as it approaches the target would be perfect and could be used in the ground based launcher to explode over enemy troops behind frontal cover but with no top cover.

    There is never going to be one single solution to enemy drones and I think ECM is one part along with lasers and guns with command detonated airburst rounds... but I also think drones themselves would also be effective even just for ramming... make a heavy drone with steel props, or perhaps a leading edge that is designed to cut.

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    Post  Kiko Thu Jan 26, 2023 7:41 pm

    Russia has created a rocket to be launched from drones and ships, 01.26.2023.

    In Russia, they created the Kh-MD-E missile, which can be launched both from UAVs and from ships.

    MOSCOW, January 26 - RIA Novosti. Russia has created an interspecific multi-purpose missile X-MD-E to be launched from drones and ships, according to an article by the National Defense magazine dedicated to the 70th anniversary of the CEO of the Tactical Missile Weapons Corporation (KTRV) Boris Obnosov.

    "When working on new products, the designers of the KTRV fully take into account the requirements of the time. For example, for UAVs that have recently received a powerful impetus for development, an interspecific multi-purpose homing missile X-MD-E has been created, which can be used from drones and surface ships," indicated in the publication.

    The missile has three versions: Kh-MD-E1 with a semi-active laser homing head, Kh-MD-E2 with an active radar, Kh-MD-E3 with a passive radar.

    As Obnosov noted, the corporation's designers take into account all trends in the development of high-precision weapons with a focus on the growth of their role in local conflicts.

    “This is a transition to ultra-high speeds and hypersound, an increase in power, accuracy and speed of guidance, a decrease in size, an improvement in selectivity in target identification. in matters of selection of a real target in a jamming environment," the words of the general director of KTRV are quoted.

    At the Army-2020 forum, the Russian company Kronstadt for the first time showed a mock-up of the Grom heavy UAV. Together with him, several aircraft weapons from KTRV were demonstrated at the exhibition. For the first time in an open exhibition, a model of a guided missile under the designation "Product 85" was shown, a prototype of Kh-MD-E - "an interspecific multi-purpose short-range homing missile."

    According to open sources, X-MD-E allows you to hit single small-sized and group targets at any time of the day. The launch weight of the rocket is 110 kilograms, the high-explosive fragmentation warhead weighs 30 kilograms. X-MD-E can hit targets at ranges up to 40 kilometers.

    KTRV is the main developer of aviation missile weapons in Russia.

    https://ria.ru/20230126/raketa-1847570180.html

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    Post  Hole Thu Jan 26, 2023 8:43 pm

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    Should be these, semi-active laser and radar/IIR.

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    Post  Isos Thu Jan 26, 2023 8:48 pm

    Considering that plenty ships don't have long range AD system, 40km is very good.

    In the future they can just put the izd305's guidance with man in the loop to achieve a very good accuracy and be immune to jamming and chaffs/flares.

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    Post  GarryB Fri Jan 27, 2023 2:38 am

    At 110kgs their HALEs and MALEs and other medium sized drones could carry quite a few of these missiles...

    I would think the S-70 could probably carry significant numbers of these weapons in its weapon bay, and they would be something even light helicopters like the Ka-226 could carry a few of too.

    I am surprised there is no IIR guided version.

    That anti radiation model with the IR window likely wont be IIR... more likely a more simple IR sensor that will detect the residual heat of a recently shut down radar or the active heat of a radar operating... which is not present with a radar beam reflection to pretend to be a radar where there is none.
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    Post  Kiko Fri Feb 03, 2023 11:30 am

    Once again about the "Lancet", "Geranium" and the Makarov pistol, by Andrey Velichko for the Aviation of Russia website. 02.03.2023.

    A special military operation in Ukraine has shown the indispensability and great demand in modern armed conflicts of various types of unmanned aerial vehicles. If at the beginning of the SVO, drones in Russia were produced in small batches, now their production has been put on stream.

    In the special operation zone, loitering ammunition manufactured by the Kalashnikov concern - Lancet and KUB-BLA - is successfully used, independently conducting reconnaissance and attacking targets. And kamikaze drones "Geran", starting at a great distance from the combat zone, perform two tasks at once: they reveal the locations of Ukrainian air defense systems and attack energy infrastructure facilities deep behind enemy lines. "Lancet" and "Geranium" complement each other. "Geranium" can be launched at a distance of up to 2.5 thousand km, it flies along the coordinate system. The range of its application is wider than that of the Lancet.

    Initially, the "Lancet" was a flying grenade - small in size, with a weak warhead. Its tests took place in Syria, and the third version of the drone has already become a serious ammunition - this is an artillery shell that loiters in the air. The upgraded Lancet-3 received new aerodynamics - now the device has one large X-shaped wing and an X-shaped tail. The basic version of the ammunition has two symmetrical X-shaped wings.

    The duration of the flight of the latest version of the drone is 60 minutes, the weight of the warhead is 5 kg. At extremely low altitude, in order to remain unnoticed, the drone operator seeks out the target, and as soon as it is detected, the kamikaze drone attacks it. The complex includes a high-precision striker, reconnaissance, navigation and communications modules. The Lancet forms its own navigation field and does not require the creation of land or sea infrastructure.

    The complex has a coordinate guidance system, guidance using optoelectronic means and a combined one. In addition, the drone is equipped with a television communication channel that transmits an image of the target to the operator's console, which allows you to confirm the success of the defeat. The drone is equipped with one of two types of fuse - non-contact or contact.

    In the summer of 2022, the Russian military began using Lancets to neutralize Ukrainian infantry. Later, videos of the destruction of air defense systems, military trucks in motion, and artillery systems appeared.

    “The Russian military uses drones to hack into the air defense system, they destroy powerful air defense systems, including the S-300. The range allows the "Lancets" to reach artillery positions in the near rear of the enemy - where it is very dangerous to send helicopters and planes, "-explains the Izvestia military observer Anton Lavrov.

    The Lancet is also deadly for lightly armored vehicles, and with a successful hit on the side or in the stern, it can burn out a self-propelled gun or even a tank. The drone achieves maximum efficiency when used in tandem with a reconnaissance drone, which keeps at a high altitude and detects the enemy due to powerful optics. The coordinates of the target are transmitted to the operator of the kamikaze drone, and the reconnaissance drone itself controls the results of hitting the target.

    Founder of the telegram channel Rybar Mikhail Zvinchuk noted that one of the most frequently hit targets for a kamikaze drone during the NWO was the American 155-mm M777 howitzer.

    “Its design uses light alloys and hydraulics, which instantly ignite when hit. Even the low power of the Lancet charge in the event of an accurate strike on the weak point of an American howitzer can completely disable the gun, the repair of which in the field is simply impossible, ”he comments on the use of a kamikaze drone.

    The appearance of the Lancet UAV brought significant changes to the line of contact - such shots of the neutralization of Ukrainian armored vehicles and artillery by this kamikaze drone appear more and more often,writes military commanderGerman Kulikovsky in his telegram channel "Older than Edda".

    At the same time, the capabilities of the Lancet are not always sufficient, he believes. Even the third version of the drone, having a flight time margin of up to an hour and a warhead weight of 5 kg, does not guarantee the destruction of the target when it hits, especially if the target is armored or if it is a dispersed enemy infantry platoon. Here we need a kamikaze drone similar to the Israeli Harop (IAI Harop), with a flight duration of three hours, a warhead weight of 15-20 kg and a replaceable reconnaissance equipment unit with a data exchange bus.

    The Geranium has similar flight characteristics, but this drone does not have a camera that could provide guidance to point targets without known coordinates.

    But the main thing in the "Lancets" is not the warhead, but the tactics of using the kamikaze drone. “Judging by indirect data, our troops use the Lancet quite competently. First of all, they affect artillery pieces and air defense systems. Moreover, acting in close coordination with other branches of the armed forces, the “lancet guides” manage to lure out enemy air defense systems and hit the direction-finding target, ”-notesGerman Kulikovsky. In the Armed Forces of Ukraine, the Lancets are taken very seriously and are fully aware of the threats posed by the drone. To counter it, large forces and means are diverted, he adds.

    To summarize all of the above: The Lancet is a high-precision instrument for the surgical operations of the Russian army. It is also called the flying "Kalashnikov" for its simplicity, reliability and efficiency. The appearance of a large number of videos with footage of the destruction of military equipment of the Armed Forces of Ukraine by kamikaze drones suggests that the saturation of the troops with strike drones is growing. It is especially noteworthy that the targets for the Lancets are expensive mobile and stationary objects, including air defense systems and foreign artillery systems worth several tens of millions of dollars. The cost of a kamikaze drone is no more than 100 thousand dollars, and it is without a crew.

    As noticed by military commander Roman Saponko, “taking out an air defense system with a drone in terms of efficiency is like shooting down a fighter with a Makarov pistol.”

    https://aviation21.ru/eshhyo-raz-pro-lancet-geran-i-pistolet-makarova/

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