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    The Situation in the Ukraine. #28

    Tsavo Lion
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    Post  Tsavo Lion Mon Dec 14, 2020 4:59 am

    Ukrainian mil. better not believe in Turkish wunderwaffe:
    https://nvo.ng.ru/realty/2020-12-10/10_1121_dream.html

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    VARGR198
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    Post  VARGR198 Mon Dec 14, 2020 11:58 am

    Ukrainan army training without bullets. Lack of available ammo?
    GarryB
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    Post  GarryB Tue Dec 15, 2020 2:42 am

    Reducing their carbon emissions... maybe they do belong in the EU...

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    kvs
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    Post  kvs Tue Dec 15, 2020 3:28 am

    The EU can have them. Nobody in Russia needs these tar babies.

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    KoTeMoRe
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    Post  KoTeMoRe Tue Dec 15, 2020 1:27 pm

    VARGR198 wrote:Ukrainan army training without bullets. Lack of available ammo?

    Old video but the reality is worse.

    Currently the UAGF despite years of "investment" still hasn't got the basic task of its "joint forces" right. That is 3 maneuver brigades and 2 support brigades. Basically for all the Gucci BS and the "New Army" talk Ukraine is little more capable than Armenia.

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    Hole
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    Post  Hole Tue Dec 15, 2020 9:04 pm

    Armenia has some nice weapons, just the leadership stinks.
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    Post  par far Tue Dec 15, 2020 9:07 pm







    Should have stayed in Russian sphere of influence, would have had a brighter future.

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    kvs
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    Post  kvs Tue Dec 15, 2020 10:17 pm

    Maidanuts. They should hop higher and faster.

    franco
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    Post  franco Thu Dec 17, 2020 1:50 pm

    Mayor of Kharkov Gennady Kernes died in Germany. There, at the Charite clinic, the politician was being treated for COVID-19. Media reports of the death were confirmed in the inner circle of the Kharkiv mayor ...
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    Post  Rodion_Romanovic Thu Dec 17, 2020 2:16 pm

    https://tass.com/politics/1236289


    Russia to build up support for Donbass, Putin says
    That concerns support for production, solving social problems and infrastructure issues, Putin said.

    (Taken from the Annual press conference)

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    kvs
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    Post  kvs Tue Dec 22, 2020 7:46 pm



    Some Ukr clown who looks like he could play an alien on Doctor Who with some makeup is calling for Banderastan
    to give Russia a "Pearl Harbor" by bombing the Kerch Strait bridge.

    So Banderastan is a friend of NATzO even though there is open talk of terrorism against other states, but Russia
    is big and bad for daring to rebuild its military facilities on its own soil. NATzO clearly sponsors terrorists and all
    of its braying about Russian "wrong doing" is transparent self-serving BS.

    LMFS
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    Post  LMFS Tue Dec 22, 2020 8:12 pm

    I read that before and my face almost melted... please let them give it a try and finish the depressing experiment called Ukraine clown clown clown

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    miketheterrible
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    Post  miketheterrible Tue Dec 22, 2020 8:23 pm

    LMFS wrote:I read that before and my face almost melted... please let them give it a try and finish the depressing experiment called Ukraine clown clown clown

    Yeah, I'm certain Crimean forces would end Ukraine within a week.

    It would be glorious tbh.

    Ukraine shits itself in fear over Russia invading them hence why they always do these token infiltration moves that end in disaster for them.

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    Hole
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    Post  Hole Tue Dec 22, 2020 8:55 pm

    The FSB border guards and Rosgvardia would be enough. Maybe a few special forces guys. then Putin could look one of these BBC clowns into the eyes and say: "We didn´t send the army."

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    Isos
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    Post  Isos Tue Dec 22, 2020 10:39 pm



    Some Ukr clown who looks like he could play an alien on Doctor Who with some makeup is calling for Banderastan
    to give Russia a "Pearl Harbor" by bombing the Kerch Strait bridge.

    So Banderastan is a friend of NATzO even though there is open talk of terrorism against other states, but Russia
    is big and bad for daring to rebuild its military facilities on its own soil.   NATzO clearly sponsors terrorists and all
    of its braying about Russian "wrong doing" is transparent self-serving BS.


    Well that would have no value. They would free the passage in 2 days for boats and rebuild the bridge quickly.

    On the other side Russia would be free to bomb whatever they want and they would choose something else than a bridge... and Ukraine would be no more.

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    Backman
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    Post  Backman Wed Dec 23, 2020 6:41 am

    franco wrote:Mayor of Kharkov Gennady Kernes died in Germany. There, at the Charite clinic, the politician was being treated for COVID-19. Media reports of the death were confirmed in the inner circle of the Kharkiv mayor ...

    From a Reuters article

    Gennady Kernes, the pro-Russian mayor of Kharkiv, is seen in Kharkiv in this August 5, 2010 file photo. Kernes was in a serious condition on April 28, 2014 after being shot in the back while riding his bicycle, the latest violence in the country's east. REUTERS/Stringer/Files/File Photo


    Seemed like a marked man. I wonder why
    franco
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    Post  franco Wed Dec 23, 2020 12:47 pm

    Backman wrote:
    franco wrote:Mayor of Kharkov Gennady Kernes died in Germany. There, at the Charite clinic, the politician was being treated for COVID-19. Media reports of the death were confirmed in the inner circle of the Kharkiv mayor ...

    From a Reuters article

    Gennady Kernes, the pro-Russian mayor of Kharkiv, is seen in Kharkiv in this August 5, 2010 file photo. Kernes was in a serious condition on April 28, 2014 after being shot in the back while riding his bicycle, the latest violence in the country's east. REUTERS/Stringer/Files/File Photo


    Seemed like a marked man. I wonder why

    He was a leader of the Russian speaking Ukrainians and favored good relations with both Russia and the West. His local political rival was the Minister of Interior and one of the Maidan leaders.
    GarryB
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    Post  GarryB Wed Dec 23, 2020 3:38 pm

    Shot in the back... how brave his assailant was...

    Of course the irony is that if this was 1941 then the Japs could defend their actions against the US by attacking Pearl Harbour by saying the US Navy was such a threat that it was all just Pre Emptive Self Defence...

    That Ukrainian is obviously an expert at history... he does know what happened to Japan for giving the US their Pearl Harbour?

    Perhaps that is his solution to the problems of the Ukraine... get Russia to attack and actually invade and then fixing the problems of the Ukraine become their problem... they wish.

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    kvs
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    Post  kvs Wed Dec 23, 2020 6:16 pm

    The Khuiv regime is an epic failure and Banderastan is basically a nascent failed state. Without Russia it is swirling deeper and
    deeper down the toilet bowl. They need for Russia to invade and fix their problems. And that is actually what their masters
    in NATzO wanted. But Russia is clearly not taking the bait and has wonderfully replaced any dependence it had on Ukrainian
    production. I recall all the BS from Brzhzinski and others that "Russia is nothing without Ukraine". History is proving the opposite.

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    Post  Hole Wed Dec 23, 2020 9:30 pm

    Nothing to see here about this assassination in western "news". But the fake "murder attempt" of Misha 2% is mentioned every 2 hours or so.
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    Post  flamming_python Thu Dec 24, 2020 12:00 pm

    miketheterrible wrote:I am going to be honest here - Ukrainian SBU is at least doing something.

    You see, in Ukraine, they managed to get nearly everyone on their side of the nationalist front and not only rule Ukraine, but have brainwashed the people into thinking it is good for them.  Russia on the other hand has done fuck all and allows outside influencers almost overthrow the government.  The only time FSB does something is arresting Jihadists that threaten violence.  But if Liberals threaten violence, they dont get a slap on the wrist.  Hence why Russia has a problem with neoliberalism growing in the youth.  Ukraine on the other hand is just on the wrong side of politics.  But if they were on the right side (nationalism against the west and pro Ukraine and not pro USA), and kept doing what they are doing, we would be calling them "Based" and they would effectively have gotten rid of their neolibs.  But since its the neolibs ruling Ukraine, they are doing what the Russians should be doing in their own country regarding about traitors and the like.

    This is the only praise this shit stain country gets from me.

    The brainwashing is not that of a stable country, it's just hysteria and hysteria never lasts for a long time as shit begins to pile up (recall 1914 Europe compared to 1917-1918)

    The end result of all this is that the Ukrainian national intelligentsia will come to the conclusion that the Ukraine is only fit to exist as a Batista Cuban-esque regime while part of the 'European family', flouting all safety, environmental and moral regulations, used as the continent's pollution garbage-dump, gambling and sex-den, screwed over by Western banks, with a working-age population destined to work in menial jobs abroad, and their fertile women selling their wombs as surrogate mothers for gay couples in Europe, used as cannon fodder by NATO without actually being part of NATO, and ruled by US-supported billionaires who wield nationalism and Nazis to legitimize their corruption and rule - and that in actuality the survival and prosperity of the Ukrainian nation long-term can only be guaranteed by Russia.

    And there are plenty of dissenting voices. But they've either been hushed into silence or have to cover up their true views. Typical totalitarian state of affairs. But once the economy comes crashing down and all the promises of Euro-integration reveal themselves as having been blatant deceit the whole time, the hangover will be hard and humiliating as always, and all the promoters of the previous regime will be hunted down like in any toppled Latin American or African regime.

    Russia on the other hand, despite the neo-liberalization of its youth, ongoing nationalism in the autonomous republics, and so on, is developing more naturally, I mean the social and political consciousness of its people and the measures undertaken by its political class. I hold no love whatsoever for our ruling elite but I stay away from radical solutions, and so does almost everyone else. Our political process is somewhat stagnant and dictated from above, but at least there is an opportunity to voice opinions and propose solutions, without feeling the breath of some Nazi freak breathing down your neck like in the Ukraine, and the government can be swayed and influenced by such internal movements, so slowly the country can shift from one direction to another if needed, without fanaticism or destabilization.

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    LMFS
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    Post  LMFS Thu Dec 24, 2020 1:17 pm

    I "almost" agree. IMO what is missing above is just a matter of accepting that the true difference between countries is not "democracy" or not (politics is determined top bottom and the bottom has just to more or less agree for things to work), but the degree of sovereignty that the country (and therefore ruling classes) is able and willing to maintain and fight for. That is the crucial difference between Russia and Ukraine and what determines that the first is growing and developing while the second is turning into the cesspool you have correctly described.
    miketheterrible
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    Post  miketheterrible Thu Dec 24, 2020 2:15 pm

    I mostly agree FP but the Russian youth seem to be becoming more nationalist than anything hence they were more in favor of voting LDPR from what is a growing trend.

    Dunno how good that will be.

    The neolib youth are ones mostly living abroad or on Twitter like most neolibs.
    flamming_python
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    Post  flamming_python Thu Dec 24, 2020 4:46 pm

    LMFS wrote:I "almost" agree. IMO what is missing above is just a matter of accepting that the true difference between countries is not "democracy" or not (politics is determined top bottom and the bottom has just to more or less agree for things to work), but the degree of sovereignty that the country (and therefore ruling classes) is able and willing to maintain and fight for. That is the crucial difference between Russia and Ukraine and what determines that the first is growing and developing while the second is turning into the cesspool you have correctly described.

    Never said that stuff has anything to do with anything

    Neither Russia or Ukraine are democracies. The only real democracies in the world are maybe Iceland and such countries, but even they have to do what Uncle Sam says, and have a class of political apparatchiks telling their people 24/7 what set of values to believe in, how much they're a part of Western civilization, what's good, what's bad, and all the rest of this nonsense.

    But to maintain the semi-cohesion of the country and enforce order under its present political orientation - the Ukrainian elite have to run to totalitarian measures, employ neo-Nazi goons and a wide-spread security apparatus that arrests people on minor pretenses (unless they cloak themselves in Ukrainian flags and nationalism); because where there's the hint of dissent it can quickly grow into full blown pro-Russian sympathy.
    Russia doesn't have that problem to nearly the same extent.


    Last edited by flamming_python on Thu Dec 24, 2020 8:57 pm; edited 2 times in total
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    Post  flamming_python Thu Dec 24, 2020 5:01 pm

    miketheterrible wrote:I mostly agree FP but the Russian youth seem to be becoming more nationalist than anything hence they were more in favor of voting LDPR from what is a growing trend.

    Dunno how good that will be.

    The neolib youth are ones mostly living abroad or on Twitter like most neolibs.

    Nope, you already have entire classes in schools in St. Petersburg and even Ekaterinburg that are rebelling against the prohibition of the LGBT flag among minors and so on

    Major problem in the making.

    Russian youth tend to like pretending to be progressive and so on; being gay or having blue hair or whatever is trendy. But when it comes to migrants, the xenophobia quickly shows its face.
    So being cool with people advertising weirdo sexualities on the streets is A-OK but having to go to Russia to get a job and feed your family is not?

    Anyway I wouldn't call it nationalism though. Because nationalism, despite its negative sides, implies a degree of loyalty to Russia too - but the present youth have none. They are just standard Eastern European liberals; pro-LGBT, closet racist and eager to emigrate to a richer country where they believe they can live on easy street. Any votes for LDPR is either because Zhirinovsky is a clown and some still see it as a protest vote, or because they don't like Muslim seasonal workers.

    Actual nationalism, or rather patriotism was trendy amongst the youth 10-15 years ago, not now. Now it's just a growing bunch of Navalny-bots

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