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    PAK-DΑ: News #2

    GarryB
    GarryB


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    Post  GarryB Thu Jun 10, 2021 6:07 am

    Think of the new bombers as delivery systems and their weapons as the defence penetrators.

    Traditionally the aircraft is the unpredictable manouvering defence penetrator that delivers the weapon to a release point and then vacates the area on to the next target.

    New weapons, either flying very low and hard to detect, or very high and just to fast to intercept reliably do a better job of evading enemy air defences than the very large aircraft that carry them.

    Defending against 200 PAK DAs or 200 B-2s trying to enter your airspace and drop a nuclear bomb on target means 200 targets to engage.

    If those aircraft carry long range hypersonic or stealthy missiles then the problem is multiplied, and with extended range the need for the aircraft to expose itself to enemy fire diminishes to the point where it is not worth exposing your aircraft to enemy air defences to launch attacks.

    Obviously when the enemy are ISIS an at that state are not getting air protection from the democratic peace loving west then Iron bombs can do the job cheaply and effectively, but if the expected problem might include US fighters or Turkish fighter offering air defence then sneaking in a few low flying cruise missiles makes sense instead to avoid confrontation and yet still take down those terrorist targets.

    When America is the problem, or a group of American ships then low flying stealthy and high flying hypersonic make a good attack combination if you can time it so the stealthy missiles arrive first and make the ships focus on the wrong direction and down low, then attacks from up high at very high speed become even more shocking and effective.... against any navy on the planet... no matter who is supporting or funding them.

    A subsonic bomber is cheaper because less energy is used to fly it around, so PAK DA will likely be cheaper to operate than the Tu-160 and the Tu-22M3, but should be stealthier than the Bears.

    Having said that their Bears and Backfires still have plenty of hours left and could be used in a range of roles with lots of potential... I mean if their PAK DA and Tu-160 are getting air to air missile capability imagine a Tu-22M3M version with its Mach 2 capacity but also an enormous nose mounted AESA radar and 24 tons of air to air missiles patrolling the far east and far north...
    Mir
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    Post  Mir Thu Jun 10, 2021 3:16 pm

    I' m speaking under correction here but I think the Russian MOD said that the PAK-DA would be able to hit any target on the globe from within the Russian borders, which is very useful indeed, but why would one then bother to develop an expensive "stealth" bomber?
    If it was up to me I would design something that would be able to fly just faster than the F-35 (won't take much!) and a radar beacon (with an off switch) that can be seen for miles. These things need to be "out there" for these psychos to see.
    Like surface ships, bombers should be seen to protect and project your interests. russia
    PapaDragon
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    Post  PapaDragon Thu Jun 10, 2021 3:54 pm

    Mir wrote:I' m speaking under correction here but I think the Russian MOD said that the PAK-DA would be able to hit any target on the globe from within the Russian borders, which is very useful indeed, but why would one then bother to develop an expensive "stealth" bomber?...

    That's the thing: it won't be expensive

    In it's original planned version (large stealth supersonic) it would have been crazy expensive but with Tu-160 back in the game requirements changed and now it's medium sized subsonic flying wing

    It also shares production facilities and even some structural components with Tu-160

    This means that only potentially expensive part is stealth materials and they already have some of those from Su-57 and S-70 programs​ plus flying wing setup is inherently less visible on radar unlike what old plan envisioned

    To say nothing of the fact that subsonic aircraft are cheaper to operate than supersonic ones, in the end cost per hour should be less than Tu-160

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    GarryB
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    Post  GarryB Fri Jun 11, 2021 7:06 am

    I' m speaking under correction here but I think the Russian MOD said that the PAK-DA would be able to hit any target on the globe from within the Russian borders, which is very useful indeed, but why would one then bother to develop an expensive "stealth" bomber?

    They have mentioned a missile called Gzur, which is a relatively small Mach 6 missile with a range of 1,500km that will be used to penetrate enemy defences to reach launch positions.

    It is supposed to be ready for service very soon to replace the Mach 5 Kh-15 Kickback short range attack missile.

    There is another follow on weapon that is about 10m long or double its length that is going to be very hypersonic (mach 9+) which has a projected range of 12,000km that is going to going into service in the early 2030s as a strategic weapon replacement and be called Gzur II, but also long range subsonic or perhaps transonic cruise missiles with similar flight ranges to replace existing models with half that range.

    The point is that for most of the time it is cheaper to make stealthy or hypersonic missiles in numbers than it is to make hypersonic or super stealthy bombers to fly to extreme range targets and attack them.
    Mir
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    Post  Mir Fri Jun 11, 2021 1:24 pm

    [/quote]The point is that for most of the time it is cheaper to make stealthy or hypersonic missiles in numbers than it is to make hypersonic or super stealthy bombers to fly to extreme range targets and attack them.[/quote]

    Exactly. If it was up to me I would even paint the plane signal red! Twisted Evil  Laughing

    It's just a delivery van but with super special cargo that can be delivered anywhere on the planet in a flash Wink
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    Post  hoom Sat Jul 24, 2021 1:46 am

    Apparently there is a new ejection seat being developed for this plane, via Bastion-Karpenko

    “We are making a chair for PAK DA for testing, while everything is going according to plan. I hope that in the next couple of years we will put the seat on the plane, ”Pozdnyakov said. The ejection seat, which is being created for the promising long-range aviation complex (PAK DA), will be equipped with an enlarged parachute. This was announced to TASS at the International Aviation and Space Salon (MAKS) by Sergei Pozdnyakov, Director General of NPP Zvezda. “Now a parachute with an increased area is being created, because when a pilot is parachuting and landing a large mass not at ocean level or zero, but at 1000-1500 meters, the fall speed is higher and the dome area is needed more,” Pozdnyakov noted.
    Источник: http://bastion-karpenko.ru/ ВТС «БАСТИОН» A.V.Karpenko
    Why would a bomber ejection seat need a bigger chute? Something seems to be lost in translation dunno

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    Atmosphere
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    Post  Atmosphere Sat Jul 24, 2021 10:22 am

    I can't wait until they rogll out the prototype and see the same old stories repeat, like with the Su-57 and 75. It has become a custom now

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    GarryB
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    Post  GarryB Sat Jul 24, 2021 2:39 pm

    Maybe because of the great flight range of the aircraft leading to the potential for these pilots to land very far from Russia that an enlarged survival kit is needed so they need a bigger chute for that survival kit.

    Have heard it includes a Tigr.... Smile

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    Post  Backman Mon Jul 26, 2021 5:05 am

    Im glad they saved the Pak Da for Maks 2023. But it will be like the su 57. Very secretive. Probably moreso than the su 57

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    Post  mnztr Mon Aug 02, 2021 7:15 am

    hoom wrote:Apparently there is a new ejection seat being developed for this plane, via Bastion-Karpenko

    “We are making a chair for PAK DA for testing, while everything is going according to plan. I hope that in the next couple of years we will put the seat on the plane, ”Pozdnyakov said. The ejection seat, which is being created for the promising long-range aviation complex (PAK DA), will be equipped with an enlarged parachute. This was announced to TASS at the International Aviation and Space Salon (MAKS) by Sergei Pozdnyakov, Director General of NPP Zvezda. “Now a parachute with an increased area is being created, because when a pilot is parachuting and landing a large mass not at ocean level or zero, but at 1000-1500 meters, the fall speed is higher and the dome area is needed more,” Pozdnyakov noted.
    Источник: http://bastion-karpenko.ru/ ВТС «БАСТИОН» A.V.Karpenko
    Why would a bomber ejection seat need a bigger chute? Something seems to be lost in translation dunno

    Its pretty clear in the quote. To enhance ejection perfromance at higher altitude. i.e if you have zero/zero capability, but are operating at a higher atltitude airport, you need a larger chute.
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    Post  LMFS Mon Aug 02, 2021 12:18 pm

    Source: PAK DA demo will be ready by 2023

    A prototype is currently being manufactured.

    MOSCOW, August 2. / TASS /. A demonstration model of a promising long-range aviation complex (PAK DA) is expected to be assembled by 2023. This was reported to TASS by a source in the aircraft industry.

    "At present, a prototype is being manufactured. It is assumed that the demonstration model will be ready by 2023," the source said.

    TASS has no official confirmation of this information.

    https://tass.ru/armiya-i-opk/12037515

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    Post  LMFS Sun Nov 28, 2021 8:13 pm

    Some slides apparently from UEC related to the NK-32M, the engine for the PAK-DA. I don't know how reliable this is, just posting it here for your consideration

    PAK-DΑ: News #2 - Page 13 Nk-32m10
    PAK-DΑ: News #2 - Page 13 Nk-32m12
    PAK-DΑ: News #2 - Page 13 Nk-32m11
    PAK-DΑ: News #2 - Page 13 Nk-32m13

    Thanks to user Seerndv

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