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    Russian Nuclear Submarine Force: Discussion

    Scorpius
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    Post  Scorpius Thu Nov 03, 2022 12:25 am

    Mir wrote:
    Podlodka77 wrote:I take all the credit for waking up this section...  Laughing
    It's nice that people get away from the special military operation.
    And let me add that Russia announced in May that it tested the K-561 Kazan at the maximum depth of application, and that depth is 600 meters. That's twice as much as diesel-electric submarines.

    https://tass.ru/armiya-i-opk/14672145

    The working depth for project 885/885M and 949A submarines is 520 meters. For project 971 submarines, it varies from variant to variant and ranges from 480 to 520 meters.

    You can not trust these figures at all. As an example the K-278 Komsomolets (Mike)with an inner titanium hull was designed to reach depths of 1200+ meters. Some sources (besides Wikipedia) gives some interesting figures regarding the Lira/Alfa class saying it could reach depths just short of that at 1160 meters, but the test depth in Wikipedia is given at something like 400 meters! What a Face
    I know for sure that the designs of Soviet submarines were tested for extreme operating conditions corresponding to a diving depth of over 2 kilometers.
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    Post  AMCXXL Thu Nov 03, 2022 1:41 am

    Scorpius wrote:
    I know for sure that the designs of Soviet submarines were tested for extreme operating conditions corresponding to a diving depth of over 2 kilometers.

    I doubt it, I think you are confusing 2000 meters with 2000 feet (about 600 meters)

    On Aug. 4, 1984, the Soviet nuclear-powered submarine K-278 Komsomolets (Mike class) reached a record submergence depth of 1,027 meters in the Norwegian Sea. At a depth of 800 meters the submarine made a torpedo salvo. Nobody had done anything like this before, or since after. Even present-day submarines cannot go deeper than 600 meters.

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    Scorpius
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    Post  Scorpius Thu Nov 03, 2022 4:00 am

    AMCXXL wrote:
    Scorpius wrote:
    I know for sure that the designs of Soviet submarines were tested for extreme operating conditions corresponding to a diving depth of over 2 kilometers.

    I doubt it, I think you are confusing 2000 meters with 2000 feet (about 600 meters)

    On Aug. 4, 1984, the Soviet nuclear-powered submarine K-278 Komsomolets (Mike class) reached a record submergence depth of 1,027 meters in the Norwegian Sea. At a depth of 800 meters the submarine made a torpedo salvo. Nobody had done anything like this before, or since after. Even present-day submarines cannot go deeper than 600 meters.
    I'm not confusing anything. My parents worked at the enterprises that built these submarines and took part in these tests. I repeat once again: these were tests of individual structures, and they are quite explicable by the military approach to the reliability of structures, when the margin of safety should be at least 100% of the nominal operational loads.
    I hope you don't think that K-278 would have collapsed if it had plunged not to 1078, but to 1080 meters? In reality, it could withstand a dive of up to 1800 meters before it would fail.

    I should also remind you that the AC-12 has about 1/4 displacement (about 2,000 tons) from the K-278 (about 8,500 tons) almost submerged, but the AC-12 has confirmed dives to a depth of more than 3,500 meters. You don't think that Russia got these technologies from aliens, do you? This is the result of a long and hard work that has been going on for many decades.

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    Big_Gazza
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    Post  Big_Gazza Thu Nov 03, 2022 4:46 pm

    Big difference between max operating depth and crush depth. The former can be guaranteed by engneering design so that commanders can operate at max depth with total confidence. Crush depth can only be estimated, and no commander anywhere would even think about skirting that limit.

    Having said that, I think that in combat situations a Russian sub "rated" at 600m will be able to achieve a significantly greater depths. I'd expect that this sort of info is a very closely guarded state secret. I knew some ex-RN boomer guys from my offshore oil & gas days, and they would steadfastly refuse to talk about the true operating max of the boats on which they served.

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    Podlodka77
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    Post  Podlodka77 Thu Nov 03, 2022 5:27 pm

    Construction of warships of the main classes for the Russian Navy as of 01.11.2022

    Submarines, nuclear;
    4 strategic submarines of project 955A + 2 more in the plan.
    5 multipurpose nuclear submarines of project 885M (the Navykorabel.ru still classifies the Ulyanovsk submarine as project 09853) + 2 more 885M in the plan
    1 special purpose submarine of the project 09851 Khabarovsk
    Submarines, diesel-electric;
    3 submarines of the project 677 + a construction contract has been signed for one more
    2 submarines of the project 636.3 + a construction contract was signed for another 4

    In total; 10 nuclear submarines under construction, 5 diesel-electric submarines under construction, 4 more nuclear submarines planned for construction and 5 more diesel-electric submarines planned for construction.

    Surface warships

    5 frigates of project 22350 are under construction, a contract on "Army-2020" for two more was signed, as well as a protocol on the possible construction of 2 frigates at the Amur Shipyard
    corvettes;
    1 project 20386 corvette under construction,
    4 project 20385 corvettes under construction + signed contract for the construction of 3 more,
    3 project 20380 corvettes under construction and a contract signed for 2 more.

    2 universal landing ships of project 23900 under construction,
    2 large landing ships of project 11711 under construction.

    These are submarines and ships launched on the water and in the testing phase and in some cases before being put into operational status;

    submarines;
    * K-XXX Generalissimus Suvorov (955A), final tests and before introduction into active status
    * K-571 Krasnoyarsk (885M); tests are underway and the submarine is about to be put into operational use, if not by the end of the year, then certainly in the first months of next.
    * B-586 Kronstadt; this submarine has already been tested several times and is waiting to be put into active status.
    * B-588 Ufa; final tests and before introduction into active status

    Surface warships;

    * Frigate Admiral Golovko (22350); i don't want to waste time..
    * Merkuriy; it is possible that the delivery date planned for this year will be moved to next year.
    * Rezkiy; final tests and before introduction into active status

    the construction of submarines is going much better..
    Thats all folks...

    Russian Nuclear Submarine Force: Discussion - Page 32 21704910

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    GarryB
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    Post  GarryB Thu Nov 03, 2022 8:15 pm

    While I do agree that Russias heavy ICBMs will make up for the lack of potency of thier ballistic missile submarines, I forsee that SLBMs will likely increase in potency with the dawn of a multipolar world order owing to thier ability to strike at pindostan from unexpected angles and with less warning than say the Sarmat. Hence when the treaties go out the window being able to rapidly increase the number of submarine carried warheads is important and the lightweight Bulava does not offer that capability.

    Unexpected direction attacks... Sarmat can be launched via the South Pole to attack the US, and Poseidon and Thunderbird can come from any direction too... in fact a fractional orbital bomb over the US knocking out all their radar will mean missiles coming from any direction will be a surprise.

    6 warheads of 150 kilotons falling into a circle with a radius of 3-5 kilometers will cause much more damage than detonating a 1 megaton warhead at one point.

    It is about energy distribution... a single super powerful bomb is not actually that effective against a wide area target because its energy is vastly concentrated in the centre... think of it as bomb... by splitting up a bomb into small cluster bombs and spreading them over a large area you create more casualties amongst a deployed enemy force than dropping a bigger bomb anywhere in the field the enemy soldiers are in.

    A 500kg bomb will turn men to paste, but even a 200 gramme explosion will kill a man and if you split that 500kg bomb into 200 gramme bomblets then you vastly increase the area of territory that you can kill people over... and you get the added bonus of reflected blast waves to intensify the damage too.

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    Tolstoy
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    Post  Tolstoy Sun Nov 06, 2022 2:53 am

    GarryB wrote:in fact a fractional orbital bomb over the US knocking out all their radar will mean missiles coming from any direction will be a surprise.
    The U.S can set up radar units and listening posts in South America to detect a FOB approaching from the South.
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    Post  GarryB Sun Nov 06, 2022 11:31 am

    The U.S can set up radar units and listening posts in South America to detect a FOB approaching from the South.

    They certainly can, but these are not radars you have on a ship... these are enormous very very expensive radar arrays that costs billions... and once they are set up facing south then set some more up facing east and west and also to protect Hawaii you will need more there... all very expensive and previously unnecessary... with manouvering hypersonic threats even if the US sees the missiles coming there is not much they can actually do about them except launch their own attack in response, and of course they could put a big bomb on a ship or drone and sail it into a US harbour....

    It is all about reminding the US that they are not safe... many in the west think Russia collapsed and disappeared and the west has gone from strength to strength, but reality is rather different and quite a pill for the US to swallow.

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    Podlodka77
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    Post  Podlodka77 Wed Nov 09, 2022 11:49 pm

    Sevmash vs Admiralty....nuclear submarines vs diesel-electric

    SEVMASH ; submarines built and in active service of the Russian Navy.

    1. K-535 Yury Dolgorukiy (955); in active service from 29 December 2012, Northern fleet (NF)
    2. K-550 Alexander Nevsky (955); in active service from 23 December 2013, Pacific fleet (PF)
    3. K-560 Severodvinsk (885); in active service from 30 December 2013, NF
    4. K-551 Vladimir Monomakh (955); in active service from December 2014; PF
    5. K-549 Knyaz Vladimir (955A); in active service from 12 June 2020, NF
    6. K-546 Kazan (885M) ; in active service from 5 May 2021, NF
    7. K-552 Knyaz Oleg (955A); in active service from 21 December 2021, PF
    8. K-573 Novosibirsk (955A); in active service from 21 December 2021, PF
    9. K-329 Belgorod (09852); in active service from 8 July 2022. PF


    ADMIRALITY; submarines built and in active service of the Russian Navy. All submarines belong to project 636.3

    1. B-261 Novorossiysk; active from 22 August 2014, Black sea fleet (BSF)
    2. B-237 Rostov-On-Don; active from 30 December 2014, BSF
    3. B-262 Stary Oskol; active from 25 June 2015, BSF
    4. B-265 Krasnodar; active from 5 November 2015, BSF
    5. B-268 Velikiy Novgorod; active from 25 October 2016, BSF
    6. B-271 Kolpino; active from 25 November 2016, BSF
    7. B-274 Petropavlovsk-Kamchatsky; active from 25 November 2019, PF
    8. B-603 Volkhov; active from 24 October 2020, PF
    9. B-602 Magadan; active from 12 October 2021. PF


    Built submarines in the final stages of testing and before being put into active status;


    Sevmash
    10. K-553 Generalissimus Suvorov (955A), completed all testing
    11. K-571 Krasnoyarsk (885M),

    Admirality;
    10. B-586 Kronshtadt (677)
    11. B-588 Ufa (636.3)


    In construction;

    Sevmash;

    12. Imperator Aleksandr III (955A),
    13. Knyaz Pozharskiy (955A)
    14. Knyaz Potemkin (955A)
    15. Dmitry Donskoy (955A)
    16. Khabarovsk (09851),
    17. K-564 Arkhangelsk (885M),
    18. Perm (885M),
    19. Ulyanovsk (885M),
    20. Voronezh (885M),
    21. Vladivostok (885M).

    Admirality;

    12. Mozhaysk (636.3),
    13. Yakutsk (636.3),
    14. B-587 Velikiye Luki (677),
    15. Vologda (677),
    16. Yaroslavl.

    In total ; SEVMASH (21); 9 built and active submarines, 2 before being introduced into the active state, 10 under construction
    ADMIRALITY (16); 9 built and active submarines, 2 before being introduced into the active state, 5 under construction

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    Podlodka77
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    Post  Podlodka77 Sat Nov 12, 2022 2:15 pm

    Although this is just my guess, I have a feeling that Russia will go for 4 divisions (at least that much) with Multipurpose Nuclear Submarines (MNS), as the Russians refer to Project 885 and 885M. One division has 6 submarines.
    The number of nuclear submarines that I have assumed for the future is 12 strategic, 24 multipurpose, 4+ special purposes. So no less than 40 nuclear submarines.
    9 have been put into active service, 2 are about to be put into active service and another 10 are under construction. Thats 21 ! So there are 19 left - at least that many. Even in the "darkest" forecasts, I am CONVINCED that the Russian fleet of nuclear submarines will be completely modernized by 2040 at the latest. The oldest submarine will be K-535 "Yuri Dolgorukiy" with 28 years of active service in 2040.

    And one interesting thing is the fact that if Russia hands over the submarines K-553 "Generalissimus Suvorov" and K-571 "Krasnoyarsk" to the Russian Navy in December, it will be 11 delivered nuclear submarines in 10 years. What is even more interesting is that there was no introduction into active service of nuclear submarines in the period from K-551 "Vladimir Monomakh" in 2014 to K-549 "Knyaz Vladimir" in 2020. The reason for this is that both projects have been radically improved, that is, the multi-purpose submarines 885M and the strategic 955A.

    So, Sevmash did not deliver any nuclear submarines for the WHOLE SIX YEARS (from December 2014 to December 2020), but again managed to deliver 9 submarines (5 submarines have been delivered since June 2020) and two are nearing completion.
    If the two mentioned submarines are handed over in December, it means that Sevmash has handed over 7 submarines to the Russian Navy since the beginning of this decade; K-549 Knyaz Vladimir, K-561 Kazan, K-552 Knyaz Oleg, K-573 Novosibirsk, K-329 Belgorod, K-553 Generalissimus Suvorov and K-571 Krasnoyarsk.

    Russia currently has in its fleet the following active submarines, submarines in reserve or undergoing modernization;
    * 885/885M; 3 submarines,
    * 949A; 7 submarines,
    * 971; 10 submarines
    * 945A; 2 submarines
    * 671RTM (K); 2 submarines
    Total; 24 submarines

    The fate of the next 3 submarines is not completely clear and they are two submarines of project 945; K-239 Karp and K-276 Krab. The same applies to the project 971I "S71 Chakra" submarine.
    Submarines K-119 Voronezh (949A) and apparently K-391 Bratsk (971) were withdrawn from service.


    - SSBN; Project Borei is nearing completion, unless the Russians decide to build more than 12 submarines. Except for the 9th submarine "Knyaz Potemkin" and the 10th submarine "Dmitry Donskoy", all others are near the end of construction. It remains to lay the keels for two more project 955A submarines.

    - SPNS (special purpose nuclear submarine); K-329 Belgorod (09852), K-XXX Khabarovsk and the question is whether two, three or additional submarines of project 09851/09853.

    - MNS; 9 submarines of the project 885/885M have been built or are under construction and 15 more remain to be built. It is a very easy task for Sevmash and I guess that the only thing Sevmash still needs to do is the modernization of "Peter the Great".

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    lancelot
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    Post  lancelot Sat Nov 12, 2022 10:01 pm

    I doubt they will build 24 Project 885/885M submarines. I think they will build at most a dozen of them. Maybe the eleven currently planned. Or even just the nine currently either built or under construction. They will likely switch to the Laika after that.

    Now that Sevmash's facilities have been upgraded the sooner they switch to the Laika the better. Newer designs are expected to be faster to build since they will use large block construction techniques which take advantage of the new facilities.
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    Post  Hole Sun Nov 13, 2022 1:00 am

    I would use the free space after the Boreis are finished to built Laika and keep the 885M running until all testing of the Laika is completed and all problems of the serial production are solved and only then switch completely to Laika.

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    Isos
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    Post  Isos Sun Nov 13, 2022 1:09 am

    They have all the akula, sierea and victor to replace. The Yasen replaced nothing. They just bring back a respectable amount of nuclear subs in service. Before the introduction of Yasen they used to have less than 10 SSN in service since some are always into repair or modernization.

    IMO Yasen is too much to replace old SSN. They need something cheaper and smaller.

    The modernization on Akula, Victor and Sierra allows to keep them few years more until a new sub is designed. Starting 2025 they will have to buy more Yasen or introduce the Laika.
    Podlodka77
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    Post  Podlodka77 Sun Nov 13, 2022 2:33 am

    lancelot wrote:I doubt they will build 24 Project 885/885M submarines. I think they will build at most a dozen of them. Maybe the eleven currently planned. Or even just the nine currently either built or under construction. They will likely switch to the Laika after that.

    Now that Sevmash's facilities have been upgraded the sooner they switch to the Laika the better. Newer designs are expected to be faster to build since they will use large block construction techniques which take advantage of the new facilities.


    I agree. The bottom line is that I wrote that the Russians probably have a plan to have (at least) 4 divisions with 6 multipurpose nuclear submarines each. Those four divisions will be made up of 885M submarines and probably some new project to come.
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    Post  Podlodka77 Fri Nov 18, 2022 3:38 pm

    November 18, 01:42

    The source said that the nuclear submarine "Daniel Moskovskiy / Saint Daniel of Moscow" was sent for recycling

    The work will be carried out by one of the ship repair enterprises in the north of Russia

    MOSCOW, 18 November. /TASS/. Nuclear submarine (NPS) "Saint Daniel of Moscow" of project 671RTMK of the Northern Fleet was sent for recycling to one of the enterprises in the north of Russia. This was reported to TASS by a source in the shipbuilding industry.

    "The nuclear submarine" St. Daniel of Moscow "made its last trip to the sea a week earlier - it was transferred to one of the ship repair enterprises in the north of the country for further disposal," he said.
    According to the interlocutor of the agency, work on the dismantling of nuclear submarines has not yet begun.

    TASS does not have official confirmation of this information.


    One more thing;
    Let me just add that this is not a surprise and that it was decided back in April 2013 that the submarine would not undergo modernization, and that it would be withdrawn from active service by 2015 - since then it has not been active. The submarine belongs to project 671RTM(K) and this suffix "K" means that it can launch S-10 "Granat" cruise missiles.
    Only two Project 671 RTM(K) Schchuka submarines remain in service; B-138 Obninsk and B-448 Tambov. Both submarines have been modernized and should soon return to active service.

    https://tass.ru/armiya-i-opk/16363147

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    Post  lancelot Fri Nov 18, 2022 6:44 pm

    The Victor III and the Delta III/IV need to go. Their use of the VM-4 reactor means they use wildly different propulsion from all other ships. And Victor III is way behind technologically. As Yasen-M comes online the Victor III gets retired.

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    Post  Isos Fri Nov 18, 2022 7:24 pm

    lancelot wrote:The Victor III and the Delta III/IV need to go. Their use of the VM-4 reactor means they use wildly different propulsion from all other ships. And Victor III is way behind technologically. As Yasen-M comes online the Victor III gets retired.

    Yasen is made to replace existing subs. They are made to increase numbers and they are SSGN not SSN.

    Victor III need to be replaced by a real SSN that should be smaller than Yasen.

    Last Delta still have the potential to remain in service for a long time. Switch their ICBM for cruise missiles VLS. At least 3 such SSGN would give a nice power up to their fleet.

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    Post  Podlodka77 Sat Nov 19, 2022 2:27 pm

    lancelot wrote:The Victor III and the Delta III/IV need to go. Their use of the VM-4 reactor means they use wildly different propulsion from all other ships. And Victor III is way behind technologically. As Yasen-M comes online the Victor III gets retired.

    I suspect that two to three 667 BDRM submarines will be decommissioned in the next few years.

    1. K-51 "Verkhoturye" completed the last overhaul and partial modernization in December 2012 (detailed modernization in the period from 1993 to 1999) and is approaching the end of its operational life.
    In active service since December 29, 1984. (38 years)

    2. K-84 "Ekaterinburg"; it was thoroughly modernized in the period from 1996 to 2003 and on December 8, 2011 it was placed in a floating dock to extend its operational life by 3.5 years. On December 29, a fire broke out on the submarine and the submarine was returned to service only in 2014 after repairs and overhaul. In 2021, it was still active, and then it was announced that it would be withdrawn from service by the end of 2022. Ekaterinburg is probably in reserve.
    In active service since December 30, 1985. (37 years)

    3. BS-64 "Podmoskovye"; this submarine was the strategic submarine of project 667 BDRM until 1999. During 2002, the missile silos were removed from the submarine. In February 2008, work began on the submarine and its conversion into a special purpose submarine of project 09787. The overhaul and modernization of project 09787 was completed on December 26, 2016, and since then the submarine has been active again. This submarine will certainly remain active until the end of this decade and probably much longer than that.
    In active service since December 23, 1986. (36 years)

    4. K-114 "Tula"; this submarine was last overhauled from December 15, 2014 to January 9, 2018. The submarine is active and its operational life will not expire until at least 2028.
    In active service since October 30, 1987. (35 years)

    5. K-117 "Bryansk"; Detailed modernization was carried out from 2002 to 2008. In September 2018, the overhaul of this submarine began and it is still located in Zvezdochka. It is planned that after the overhaul the submarine will serve another "3.5 years", but it can be 5 years without any problems.
    In active service since September 30, 1988. (34 years)

    6. K-18 "Karelia"; This submarine underwent detailed repair and modernization from 2006 to 2010. The operational life has been extended to 10 years and it has been active since January 22, 2010. This submarine needs a new overhaul and will be sent to it after the overhaul of the submarine "Bryansk".
    In active service since October 10, 1989. (33 years)

    7. K-407 "Novomoskovsk"; from 2008 to 2012, a detailed repair and modernization of the submarine was carried out. After the modernization, the operational life was extended by 10 years, which means that it should go for overhaul soon.
    In active service since December 1st, 1990. (32 years).



    It is possible that the Russians will not carry out the overhaul of either the K-18 "Karelia" submarine or the K-407 "Novomoskovsk" because the project 955A "Borei-A" submarines are rapidly leaving the Sevmash shipyard. It is certain that the K-114 "Tula" still has a few more years ahead of it, while the "Bryansk" will just come back from overhaul.
    On the other hand, "Verkhoturye" and "Ekaterinburg" are certainly counting their last days in the 31st submarine division of the Northern Fleet.
    However, I think that at least two to three 667 BDRM submarines will wait for the next decade, that is, until the construction of the 11th and 12th "Borei" submarines (8th and 9th 955A "Borei-A") is completed.
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    Post  lancelot Sat Nov 19, 2022 3:28 pm

    Since K-553 "Generalissimo Suvorov" will be going into the Pacific Fleet it will likely replace K-44 "Ryazan". The last Delta III SSBN.
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    Post  Podlodka77 Sat Nov 19, 2022 3:45 pm

    lancelot wrote:Since K-553 "Generalissimo Suvorov" will be going into the Pacific Fleet it will likely replace K-44 "Ryazan". The last Delta III SSBN.

    I think so too, that is, the K-553 will replace the K-44.
    K-44 "Ryazan" was under overhaul from June 1, 2013 to February 15, 2017, when it was returned to active service. The overhaul was extensive and it is not impossible that the submarine still has some resources left.
    On November 24, 1982, K-44 was included in the Northern Fleet 13th submarine division based in Olenya Bay. 5 more days and the submarine will complete 40 years of active service.
    From August to September 2008, the submarine was on its way to its last duty station - the Pacific Fleet and 25th submarine division.
    Although it is still officially in the 25th submarine division with K-550 "Alexander Nevsky" (955 Borei), K-551 "Vladimir Monomakh" (955) and K-552 "Knyaz Oleg" (955A Borei-A), this submarine has 40 years of active service and will probably be retired from active service next year or in 2024.
    The Navykorabel.ru blog states that in 2020, the K-44 was reclassified from a strategic submarine to an attack submarine, although the submarine is part of the 25th division, which only includes strategic submarines.

    Lancelot, there is one more 667 BDR "Kalmar" (squid) or NATO designation; Delta III and that is a submarine BS-136 "Orenburg"...  Very Happy
    I know you know that yourself because this submarine was converted into a project 09786 submarine.
    The modernization into that project was completed in 2002. Last year, "Orenburg" was in the dock for overhaul and there was even talk of its modernization, although many doubted it due to the submarine's age. There is no official information on whether the overhaul has been completed, whether it is in progress or whether it has been abandoned.
    This submarine has been active since April 15, 1981 and is the oldest operational submarine of the Russian Navy. Next in age is the submarine TK-208 "Dmitry Donskoy" (project 09412 or 941UM for short) which has been active since December 29, 1981.


    Russian Nuclear Submarine Force: Discussion - Page 32 Dvusto10

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    Post  AMCXXL Sun Nov 20, 2022 8:27 am

    Podlodka77 wrote:
    lancelot wrote:Since K-553 "Generalissimo Suvorov" will be going into the Pacific Fleet it will likely replace K-44 "Ryazan". The last Delta III SSBN.

    I think so too, that is, the K-553 will replace the K-44.
    K-44 "Ryazan" was under overhaul from June 1, 2013 to February 15, 2017, when it was returned to active service. The overhaul was extensive and it is not impossible that the submarine still has some resources left.
    On November 24, 1982, K-44 was included in the Northern Fleet 13th submarine division based in Olenya Bay. 5 more days and the submarine will complete 40 years of active service.
    From August to September 2008, the submarine was on its way to its last duty station - the Pacific Fleet and 25th submarine division.
    Although it is still officially in the 25th submarine division with K-550 "Alexander Nevsky" (955 Borei), K-551 "Vladimir Monomakh" (955) and K-552 "Knyaz Oleg" (955A Borei-A), this submarine has 40 years of active service and will probably be retired from active service next year or in 2024.
    The Navykorabel.ru blog states that in 2020, the K-44 was reclassified from a strategic submarine to an attack submarine, although the submarine is part of the 25th division, which only includes strategic submarines.

    Lancelot, there is one more 667 BDR "Kalmar" (squid) or NATO designation; Delta III and that is a submarine BS-136 "Orenburg"...  Very Happy
    I know you know that yourself because this submarine was converted into a project 09786 submarine.
    The modernization into that project was completed in 2002. Last year, "Orenburg" was in the dock for overhaul and there was even talk of its modernization, although many doubted it due to the submarine's age. There is no official information on whether the overhaul has been completed, whether it is in progress or whether it has been abandoned.
    This submarine has been active since April 15, 1981 and is the oldest operational submarine of the Russian Navy. Next in age is the submarine TK-208 "Dmitry Donskoy" (project 09412 or 941UM for short) which has been active since December 29, 1981.


    No, the K-553 does not replace the K-44
    The K-553 has had its own crew since the beginning of the year, the crew of the K-44 is a different one

    When the K-44 is to be replaced, it will be withdrawn a year earlier and its crew will go to sea trials of the new submarine.
    Since the K-44 is included in the 10th Submarine Division, it is most likely that its crew will be assigned to a new Yasen Class or it will be assigned to one of the 949AM that are in the shipyard

    About BS-136, is out of service since 2015, moored in Severovdonsk, the necessary repair will not be carried out since in a few years more submarines carrying "Poseidon" will enter service


    Podlodka77 wrote:
    lancelot wrote:The Victor III and the Delta III/IV need to go. Their use of the VM-4 reactor means they use wildly different propulsion from all other ships. And Victor III is way behind technologically. As Yasen-M comes online the Victor III gets retired.

    I suspect that two to three 667 BDRM submarines will be decommissioned in the next few years.


    It is possible that the Russians will not carry out the overhaul of either the K-18 "Karelia" submarine or the K-407 "Novomoskovsk" because the project 955A "Borei-A" submarines are rapidly leaving the Sevmash shipyard. It is certain that the K-114 "Tula" still has a few more years ahead of it, while the "Bryansk" will just come back from overhaul.
    On the other hand, "Verkhoturye" and "Ekaterinburg" are certainly counting their last days in the 31st submarine division of the Northern Fleet.
    However, I think that at least two to three 667 BDRM submarines will wait for the next decade, that is, until the construction of the 11th and 12th "Borei" submarines (8th and 9th 955A "Borei-A") is completed.

    Ekaterinburg is out
    Bryansk is in shipyard, probably not will enter service again since in 2024 the 8th 955A submarine will arrive to North fleet
    By 2030 the 12 Boreys should be in service and the Delta IV out of service

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    Post  Podlodka77 Sun Nov 20, 2022 3:30 pm

    1. In July, the Orenburg city authorities visited the Orenburg submarine.
    Sergey Salmin congratulated the crew of the Orenburg nuclear submarine
    News feed July 31, 13:55

    At present, the delegation of Orenburg headed by Sergey Salmin is in the Murmansk region, where the sponsored nuclear submarine "Orenburg" is based among the nuclear submarines of the Northern Fleet. Today the delegation is taking part in the celebrations dedicated to the Day of the Navy.

    Congratulating the sailors on their professional holiday, Sergey Salmin noted that Orenburg and the Northern Sea Fleet have a long history of cooperation. Among the residents of our city and region there are many who once served in the Navy and those who today continue to carry out combat watch, including on the Orenburg nuclear submarine.

    “We are proud that the navy has a submarine bearing the name of our city. For any Orenburg citizen to serve on it is prestigious and honorable. Young guys go through a real school of life here, temper their character and willpower, gain a unique experience. We highly appreciate the friendship that has been binding us for many years and we hope that these relations will only grow stronger and develop,” Sergey Salmin emphasized.

    On behalf of all residents of Orenburg, the Head of the city thanked the commander and all the personnel for conscientious service, loyalty to duty, professionalism and wished him good health, well-being and success in fulfilling the assigned tasks.




    The submarine was delivered for overhaul, video from the Russian state television for the city of Orenburg...


    https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=2ahUKEwjawtO1mLz7AhUtM-wKHakeDy8QFnoECBEQAQ&url=https%3A%2F%2Fvestirama.ru%2Fvesti-orenburzhya%2Fsyuzhetyi%2Fpodvodnuyu-lodku-orenburg-dostavili-na-remont-v-severodvinsk.html&usg=AOvVaw2fc0GnrPhrvK5BB02IhOEb

    The submarine "Orenburg" was delivered to Severodvinsk for overhaul

    Repair of the submarine was not planned. The nuclear-powered vessel was urgently relocated in tow due to a malfunction in the steam turbine installation at the Zvyozdochka shipbuilding plant in Severodvinsk.
    Recall that the Orenburg nuclear submarine is part of the Russian Navy as a special-purpose nuclear submarine as part of the 29th separate brigade of submarines of the Northern Fleet. It is based in the Murmansk region. "Orenburg" is the carrier of the nuclear deep-sea station of the Losharik project, one of the most secret submarines of the Russian fleet. On September 8, 1998, the submarine received the name Orenburg. In 1999, the government of the Orenburg region took over the patronage of the submarine.

    https://www.google.com/url?sa=i&url=https%3A%2F%2Fvestirama.ru%2Fnovosti%2Fpodvodnuyu-lodku-orenburg-dostavili-na-remont-010715.html&psig=AOvVaw1iaB4twBvNddFd2NdFJOZL&ust=1669014747899000&source=images&cd=vfe&ved=0CBEQjhxqFwoTCPjNtM2avPsCFQAAAAAdAAAAABAE

    The K-44 Ryazan has been part of the 25th Division of Strategic Submarines since 2008, and nothing has changed in that regard.
    http://www.deepstorm.ru/DeepStorm.files/45-92/nbrs/667BDR/K-44/K-44.htm

    The fact that the crew from a decommissioned submarine goes to training for another (new) submarine has nothing to do with the fact that the K-553 will replace the K-44, because the K-44 no longer serves its original purpose. The K-44 was allegedly reclassified in 2020 as a PLAT (nuclear submarine armed with torpedoes or in Russian подводная лодка атомная торпедная.  
    I know there is more detailed information about it, but I can't find it now. In any case, the K-44 is no longer classified as a strategic submarine or RPKSN in Russian but as a PLAK, but it is part of the 25th submarine division.

    Russian Nuclear Submarine Force: Discussion - Page 32 21763210



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    Post  AMCXXL Sun Nov 20, 2022 8:49 pm

    Podlodka77 wrote:1. In July, the Orenburg city authorities visited the Orenburg submarine.
    Sergey Salmin congratulated the crew of the Orenburg nuclear submarine
    News feed July 31, 13:55

    At present, the delegation of Orenburg headed by Sergey Salmin is in the Murmansk region, where the sponsored nuclear submarine "Orenburg" is based among the nuclear submarines of the Northern Fleet. Today the delegation is taking part in the celebrations dedicated to the Day of the Navy.

    Congratulating the sailors on their professional holiday, Sergey Salmin noted that Orenburg and the Northern Sea Fleet have a long history of cooperation. Among the residents of our city and region there are many who once served in the Navy and those who today continue to carry out combat watch, including on the Orenburg nuclear submarine.

    “We are proud that the navy has a submarine bearing the name of our city. For any Orenburg citizen to serve on it is prestigious and honorable. Young guys go through a real school of life here, temper their character and willpower, gain a unique experience. We highly appreciate the friendship that has been binding us for many years and we hope that these relations will only grow stronger and develop,” Sergey Salmin emphasized.

    On behalf of all residents of Orenburg, the Head of the city thanked the commander and all the personnel for conscientious service, loyalty to duty, professionalism and wished him good health, well-being and success in fulfilling the assigned tasks.




    The submarine was delivered for overhaul, video from the Russian state television for the city of Orenburg...


    https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=2ahUKEwjawtO1mLz7AhUtM-wKHakeDy8QFnoECBEQAQ&url=https%3A%2F%2Fvestirama.ru%2Fvesti-orenburzhya%2Fsyuzhetyi%2Fpodvodnuyu-lodku-orenburg-dostavili-na-remont-v-severodvinsk.html&usg=AOvVaw2fc0GnrPhrvK5BB02IhOEb

    The submarine "Orenburg" was delivered to Severodvinsk for overhaul

    Repair of the submarine was not planned. The nuclear-powered vessel was urgently relocated in tow due to a malfunction in the steam turbine installation at the Zvyozdochka shipbuilding plant in Severodvinsk.
    Recall that the Orenburg nuclear submarine is part of the Russian Navy as a special-purpose nuclear submarine as part of the 29th separate brigade of submarines of the Northern Fleet. It is based in the Murmansk region. "Orenburg" is the carrier of the nuclear deep-sea station of the Losharik project, one of the most secret submarines of the Russian fleet. On September 8, 1998, the submarine received the name Orenburg. In 1999, the government of the Orenburg region took over the patronage of the submarine.

    https://www.google.com/url?sa=i&url=https%3A%2F%2Fvestirama.ru%2Fnovosti%2Fpodvodnuyu-lodku-orenburg-dostavili-na-remont-010715.html&psig=AOvVaw1iaB4twBvNddFd2NdFJOZL&ust=1669014747899000&source=images&cd=vfe&ved=0CBEQjhxqFwoTCPjNtM2avPsCFQAAAAAdAAAAABAE

    The K-44 Ryazan has been part of the 25th Division of Strategic Submarines since 2008, and nothing has changed in that regard.
    http://www.deepstorm.ru/DeepStorm.files/45-92/nbrs/667BDR/K-44/K-44.htm

    The fact that the crew from a decommissioned submarine goes to training for another (new) submarine has nothing to do with the fact that the K-553 will replace the K-44, because the K-44 no longer serves its original purpose. The K-44 was allegedly reclassified in 2020 as a PLAT (nuclear submarine armed with torpedoes or in Russian подводная лодка атомная торпедная.  
    I know there is more detailed information about it, but I can't find it now. In any case, the K-44 is no longer classified as a strategic submarine or RPKSN in Russian but as a PLAK, but it is part of the 25th submarine division.


    The Orenburg has not sailed for years, and the fact that it has moved to Severovdinsk was due to the supposed fire of a Losharik that cost the lives of several sailors and also affected the ship.
    The possibility of sew repairing is almost zero, the news is more or less propaganda to misinform the enemy, the truth is that the ship exhausted its operational period from 2004 to 2015 and in any case needed an intermediate repair that has not been carried out.

    The crew of the submarine cruiser is itself a military unit (BS-136 = military unit 04544, similar to a regiment) and continues to exist regardless of whether the submarine ship is out of service/damaged/in repairs, or in reserve.

    About K-44, Navy Korabel says was reclasificated and transferred to 10 Division, in the post 3 january 2022, however the link to the page redstar.ru is locked in my country
    https://navy-korabel.livejournal.com/257457.html
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    Post  Podlodka77 Sun Nov 20, 2022 9:03 pm

    At the beginning of January of this year, Russia had a ship under construction with a full displacement of 315,000 tons.
    Already almost more than 10% of that list can be taken away because the K-329 "Belgorod" submarine was handed over to the Russian Navy. If both the K-553 "Generalissimus Suvorov" and the "K-571 Krasnoyarsk" are delivered to the Navy, that's at least another 24,000 tons for the Borei and less than 13,800 tons for the Yasen, since the Yasen-M supposedly has a smaller full displacement. So almost 20% of the full displacement is "taken off" by these three submarines.

    Russian Nuclear Submarine Force: Discussion - Page 32 18258211

    The list does not include icebreaking patrol ships of project 23350, small missile ships of projects 21631 and 22800, as well as patrol ships of project 22160, minesweepers of project 12700
    Why are there no smaller ships ? Honestly, I don't know, because it's possible that he didn't include ships of less than 2000 tons displacement, which again raises the question why icebreaking patrol ships are not on the list because they have 8500 tons of full displacement per ship.
    Anyway, according to this indicator, Russia is the third in the world after the USA (389,000) tons and the Chinese with 338,000 tons.
    Almost half of the full displacement of the American number belongs to the construction of one "Gerald Ford" class aircraft carrier and the construction of one "America" ​​class amphibious assault ship.



    Under construction on 01/01/2022:
    5 SSBNs project 955A,
    3 SSBNs with Poseidon of projects 09852, 09851 and 09853; the mistake is that the submarine "Ulyanovsk" is classified here. The other two are "Belgorod" (active) and Khabarovsk.
    5 SSGNs project 885M,
    2 submarines project 677.1,
    3 submarines project 636.3,
    2 FR projects 22350 mod. I,
    4 FR project 22350 mod. II,
    1 KRV project 20386,
    2 KRV project 20385,
    5 KRV project 20380 mod. III,
    2 UDC pr. 23900,
    2 TDK pr. 11711 mod. II.


    In 2021, laid down: 2 SSBN 955A, 2 PL 636.3, 1 KRV 20385, 2 KRV 20380 (III);
    in 2020 laid down; - 2 SSGN 885M, 2 FR 22350 (II), 2 UDC 23900.
    What worries me a bit is that the keels for only 4 units have been laid for construction this year; two project 677 submarines and two project 20385 corvettes. Well, there's time. Next year must be busy, although I wouldn't be surprised if there are new things by the end of this year.
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    Post  Podlodka77 Fri Nov 25, 2022 12:47 pm

    Sevmash vs Admiralty....nuclear submarines vs diesel-electric
    Right now it's 10:9 for Admiralty, but I expect Sevmash to lead by the end of the year with 10:11 or it will be 11:11 if the Admiralty manages to hand over the B-586 Kronshtadt to the Navy as well..
    I am adding in the text in BLACK letters what is new since November 9, when I wrote the first text.


    SEVMASH ; submarines built and in active service of the Russian Navy.

    From 2012 to 2019; 4 submarines;
    1. K-535 Yury Dolgorukiy (955); in active service from 29 December 2012, Northern fleet (NF)
    2. K-550 Alexander Nevsky (955); in active service from 23 December 2013, Pacific fleet (PF)
    3. K-560 Severodvinsk (885); in active service from 30 December 2013, NF
    4. K-551 Vladimir Monomakh (955); in active service from December 2014; PF

    From 2020 to 2022; 7 submarines;
    5. K-549 Knyaz Vladimir (955A); in active service from 12 June 2020, NF
    6. K-546 Kazan (885M) ; in active service from 5 May 2021, NF
    7. K-552 Knyaz Oleg (955A); in active service from 21 December 2021, PF
    8. K-573 Novosibirsk (955A); in active service from 21 December 2021, PF
    9. K-329 Belgorod (09852); in active service from 8 July 2022. PF
    10. K-553 Generalissimus Suvorov (955A); Announced to be active until the end of December 2022. PF
    11. K-571 Krasnoyarsk (885M); Announced to be active until the end of December 2022. PF


    ADMIRALITY; submarines built and in active service of the Russian Navy. All submarines belong to project 636.3

    From 2014 to 2019; 7 submarines
    1. B-261 Novorossiysk; active from 22 August 2014, Black sea fleet (BSF)
    2. B-237 Rostov-On-Don; active from 30 December 2014, BSF
    3. B-262 Stary Oskol; active from 25 June 2015, BSF
    4. B-265 Krasnodar; active from 5 November 2015, BSF
    5. B-268 Velikiy Novgorod; active from 25 October 2016, BSF
    6. B-271 Kolpino; active from 25 November 2016, BSF
    7. B-274 Petropavlovsk-Kamchatsky; active from 25 November 2019, PF

    From 2020 to 2022; 3 submarines
    8. B-603 Volkhov; active from 24 October 2020, PF
    9. B-602 Magadan; active from 12 October 2021. PF
    10. B-588 Ufa; active from November 16, 2022. PF


    Built submarines in the final stages of testing and before being put into active status;

    Sevmash
    10. K-553 Generalissimus Suvorov (955A), Announced to be active until the end of December 2022
    11. K-571 Krasnoyarsk (885M), Announced to be active until the end of December 2022

    Admirality;
    10. B-586 Kronshtadt (677)
    11. B-588 Ufa (636.3) - active


    In construction;

    Sevmash;

    12. Imperator Aleksandr III (955A),
    13. Knyaz Pozharskiy (955A)
    14. Knyaz Potemkin (955A)
    15. Dmitry Donskoy (955A)
    16. Khabarovsk (09851),
    17. K-564 Arkhangelsk (885M),
    18. Perm (885M),
    19. Ulyanovsk (885M),
    20. Voronezh (885M),
    21. Vladivostok (885M).

    Admirality;

    12. Mozhaysk (636.3),
    13. Yakutsk (636.3),
    14. B-587 Velikiye Luki (677),
    15. Vologda (677),
    16. Yaroslavl.

    SEVMASH (21); 11 built and 9 active submarines, 10 under construction
    ADMIRALITY (16); 11 built and 10 active submarines, 5 under construction
    In total (37); 22 built and 19 active submarines, 15 under construction.


    What I am most interested in is the date when K-564 Arkhangelsk (885M) and K-XXX "Imperator Aleksandr III" belonging to the 955A project will be launched. I expect also the third nuclear submarine on the water soon, that is K-XXX "Khabarovsk" (09851).

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