Add that to the 34 Algerian birds, and that is where I got 50 from.
There were two additional Su-27SM3 modernized recently, but aside from that AFAIK the program is over.
TR1 wrote:The only current MiG-29SMT orders are the 16 airframes ordered until the MiG-35 is ready.
Add that to the 34 Algerian birds, and that is where I got 50 from.
There were two additional Su-27SM3 modernized recently, but aside from that AFAIK the program is over.
George1 wrote:TR1 wrote:The only current MiG-29SMT orders are the 16 airframes ordered until the MiG-35 is ready.
Add that to the 34 Algerian birds, and that is where I got 50 from.
There were two additional Su-27SM3 modernized recently, but aside from that AFAIK the program is over.
maybe we have another order of 16 MiG-29SMT, until MiG-35
TR1 wrote:The only current MiG-29SMT orders are the 16 airframes ordered until the MiG-35 is ready.
Add that to the 34 Algerian birds, and that is where I got 50 from.
There were two additional Su-27SM3 modernized recently, but aside from that AFAIK the program is over.
96 aircraft is a pathetic number.
The number of T-50's proposed, 250, is a pathetic number too, when Soviet Union was able to produce 500 MiG-31's and far more MiG-29's, Su-27's and fielding previous gen aircrafts at same time. Russia put all the others in reserve, graveyard, while operating a pathetic fleet of MiG-29's, Su-27's and Su-24's with a few modern jets here and there. So Russia is in no position to even defend itself conventionally. Su-35's to replace all Su-27's and MiG-35 to replace all MiG-29's plus upgrade all current MiG-29's and replacing Su-24's 1 to 1 with Su-34's is where they need to go, or they will be heavily under protected and heavily outgunned real quick.
Is there anymore orders for further MiG-29SMT? There is quite a few MiG-29's in service so upgrading them shouldn't be that costly, no?
TR1 wrote:Plan is for 96 through 2020, though they mentioned the 2nd batch might be increased in size modestly.
T-50 won't be built at 12 per year from 2016, you can count on that.
There have been 20 Su-30M2 ordered, and likely no more.
60 Su-30SM for VVS, and VMF has ordered a small amount with a floated interest in 50 birds. Past that we can only guess.
TR1 wrote:MiG-29SMT - 50
MiG-29K - 24
MiG-35 - ~30
Su-34 - ~170
Su-35 - 112
Su-30SM - 110-140
Su-30M2 - 20
Su-27SM/SM3 - 14
Tentative Total : ~530-560
My Tentative list for "new" (post-Soviet) airframes that will be around by 2020.
I fail to see how this is a bad number.
nemrod wrote:Russians strategists don't think like that, they are infinietly more cleaver than we could imagine. Russia is in war against west, espiaclally US. To build more SU-35, and Mig-35 implies to spend more ressources in military industrial complex, Russia cannot afford it. It is in fact the trap tended by US. China has at least 400 SU-27 derived, India has several hundreds SU-27, and Mig-29. China became the world economy, it has more ressources to spend. India, has growing economy too, these countries has huge ressources. Moreover, there are other countries in the world that are interresting by SU-35, and Mig-35, there are all challenges for US.
The first batch of 24 SU-34 will arrive at China in 2016. Beijin is planning to build several hundreds, if not thousands of SU-27 derived products, with huge amounts of benefits for Russia, without straining its economy. China has nearly several trillions of dollars availlable, and all this amount will pressure US without spending one rouble for Russia. India, Vietnam, North Korea are planning to build, or buy more SU-27, and SU-50. The declining western economies could not sustain this race, and Russia will be the ultimate winner.
SU-35, and Mig-35 are a very usefull cards between russian strategists not only in military areas.
I should be clearer, I meant serial T-50s. I would bet my savings those announcements regarding 2016 production are baloney. But that is just me.
Su-25SM fleet already numbers 84 birds, so I see Su-25 numbers staying at well over 100 past 2020.
MiG-31BM of course will be around, probably a fleet or ~100 well past 2020.
Russia is the largest country in the world and sparcly populated in various regions, there is a lot of terriroty poorly covered. 500-600 fighters are not enough, even Turkey would field more aircrafts than that.
Eventually, a 1-3 conversion of Su-27P or S series being replaced by 1 Su-35 or Su-30 series, or maybe MiG-29M would be very beneficial to their protection.
Americans strategists are all, but not stupids.sepheronx wrote:
96 aircraft is a pathetic number. Russia has a huge aging fleet of aircrafts and there is constant threat from US now at her borders, and cannot find money + pilots for it?
Russia with its actual fleet it is largely enough to deter any attack, by any agressors. You could not waste, as said TR1, and Garry, all your precious ressources to build figher-bombers, and recruiting soldiers. Russia has many challenge, at first to continue to develop siberia, by implementing more High-speed railway lines, research centers, modernizing its servers, microprocessors, super-calculators, agriculture, new russian operating systems, phone industry etc...US by pursuing their imperialist behaviour are in the roads of abysmsepheronx wrote:
The number of T-50's proposed, 250, is a pathetic number too, when Soviet Union was able to produce 500 MiG-31's and far more MiG-29's, Su-27's and fielding previous gen aircrafts at same time. Russia put all the others in reserve, graveyard, while operating a pathetic fleet of MiG-29's, Su-27's and Su-24's with a few modern jets here and there. So Russia is in no position to even defend itself conventionally.
It is very good news, if Russia could sell for example 100 SU-35 to Iran, and 100 SU-35, 100 Mig-35 to Algeria, with 100 SU-35 to Venezuela, it could completly change US perceptions. This kind of news will infuriate US, because it will become more and more difficult to agress, or terror a country.TR1 wrote:
The only current MiG-29SMT orders are the 16 airframes ordered until the MiG-35 is ready.
Add that to the 34 Algerian birds, and that is where I got 50 from.
They've already ordered 24 SU-35, and has options for others, not only buying, but China could produce its own SU-35, with their new thrust vector engine WS-10G, waiting for their WS-15. US won't be able to attack China.Kimppis wrote:
Yeah, I agree that China is a major issue for the US. However, I don't think they'll get Su-35s. We've been hearing that for something like 10 years now. It's just not going to happen. Su-35 is an excellent aircraft, no doubt about that, but the Chinese just don't need it anymore. And if they are going to get them, the numbers are going to be low.
Very interresting.Kimppis wrote:
China is going to have around 1000 4th and 5th gen fighters by 2020 (or 2021) and that is going to increase close to 1500 by 2025. They already have around 700. And that doesn't even include 200+ JH-7s. Also the European context is important: France and UK each have only something like 200+ fighters. And we must not forget the Russian IADS.
TR1 wrote:1.) I should be clearer, I meant serial T-50s. I would bet my savings those announcements regarding 2016 production are baloney. But that is just me.
nemrod wrote:
They've already ordered 24 SU-35, and has options for others, not only buying, but China could produce its own SU-35, with their new thrust vector engine WS-10G, waiting for their WS-15. US won't be able to attack China.
Kimppis wrote:
China is going to have around 1000 4th and 5th gen fighters by 2020 (or 2021) and that is going to increase close to 1500 by 2025. They already have around 700. And that doesn't even include 200+ JH-7s. Also the European context is important: France and UK each have only something like 200+ fighters. And we must not forget the Russian IADS.
nemrod wrote:Very interresting.
Could you please give us your sources.
Firebird wrote:http://rt.com/news/242097-pak-ta-russian-army/
OK to this does look a bit like fan art. But I'm sure it CAN be done.
The question is whether Russia and its partners will want to.
Either way, its a seriously impressive piece of kit.
I suppose you could do civilian variants too.
Maybe this is Russia's way of telling America to start growing up?
EDIT:
They say the devil is in the detail.
The initial plan is a 900kph aircraft, then there is talk of a 2000kph, then "probably hypersonic".
It would be intreresting to see the planned timeframes for all 3.
magnumcromagnon wrote:Firebird wrote:http://rt.com/news/242097-pak-ta-russian-army/
OK to this does look a bit like fan art. But I'm sure it CAN be done.
The question is whether Russia and its partners will want to.
Either way, its a seriously impressive piece of kit.
I suppose you could do civilian variants too.
Maybe this is Russia's way of telling America to start growing up?
EDIT:
They say the devil is in the detail.
The initial plan is a 900kph aircraft, then there is talk of a 2000kph, then "probably hypersonic".
It would be intreresting to see the planned timeframes for all 3.
Yes I reported on the PAK TA project some 6 months ago but their wasn't any specifics. My thoughts are that the project seems too optimistic, 200 ton payload capability is possible, so is supersonic speed, but both 200 ton payload and supersonic speed? I think it isn't impossible, but is it probable? It can possibly be done, however what if it turns out to be extremely expensive? Like $1 or 2 billion a piece? Surely that wouldn't be worth the cost? 200 ton payload at 'sub-sonic' speed seems like it's a more cost-effective a viable target/option, but here's a case where I would love nothing more than to be proven wrong, but I have to see it before I can believe it...as in it leaves the drawing board stage, and with actual flying prototypes that meet the advertised requirements.
Cyberspec wrote:They're building an airstrip on Franz Jozef land.
http://www.aviaport.ru/digest/2015/03/18/331497.html
Apparently, 2 x Il-78's + 4 x Su-34's will be based there, as well as 150 maintenance and security personell.
Not far from the North Pole....
George1 wrote:Su-34 for Naval Strike??
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