VVS Russian Air Force: News #1

I agree, I think a lot of roles will be taken over by UAVs, and I also think a few new aircraft will be revealed over the next few years... the A-100 has been mentioned as the replacement for the A-50, though the A-50 has been given a modest upgrade too.

A lot of aircraft will simply be worn out because they have endured a long period without proper maintainence and upgrades.
I would expect there are a few Mi8s and Mi24s that are practically falling apart, but quite a few aircraft were put in storage... and though lots of parts might have been taken for keeping in service aircraft going, or simply been pinched, that doesn't really matter as most of their components would be completely replaced in an upgrade anyway.
It is the hours on the airframe that is what counts and lack of fuel and aircraft in storage should have led to a few airframes that would be ideal for upgrades and being returned to service as a cheaper alternative to simply being stored further or expanding capacity for new aircraft.

The problem with expanding capacity for new planes is that once the Russian AF has enough what are you going to do with that expanded production capacity?

Production capacity has to increase from what it is now, but it is important to get it right or you might end up with too much production capacity and nothing to make.

I am not suggesting everything gets a complete and expensive upgrade, but for example if you look at the Mi-35M export version of the Hind that incorporates a lot of technology and equipment from the Mi-28N it makes the older aircraft more capable, increases the production numbers for new components which should reduce their cost and ease maintainence problems. An upgraded Hind is cheaper to pay for than a brand new Mi-28N.

A lot of the changes can be done during routine maintainence and overhauls.

Obviously any airframes to old to bother maintaining will not be upgraded and can be replaced first by new airframes, but numbers I have seen talk about up to 100 Su-35s and 30 odd Mig-35s, thanks to the Algerian Migs they have Mig-29SMTs in service and they are probably electronically their most capable fighter aircraft. Spending a little more money they could apply that upgrade to another 150 Migs and change a force from mediocre to OK without spending much more than they should already be spending on maintainence.

Remember the SMT upgrade reduces maintainence costs and flight costs of the Mig-29 by about 40% so after 2-3 years they will have saved more money than it cost them.

A similar upgrade for the Flankers could see 150-200 Flankers get an SM upgrade which would at least leave most of the fleet able to fire R-77 and other post cold war new weapons.

Regarding the Mig-31... I would have thought the Russian AF would not have all that large a number of Mig-31s... I would have thought they would have gone to the PVO and now Space and Air Defence units... and I think they would make the Mig-31 upgrade a priority.

Corrosion wrote:

These are about 1100 in number. It will be a very difficult job to upgrade most of these or replace these 1 for 1. I am sure we will see more quality than quantity in VVS in future.

It is less than 1000 now and over half of them are unavailable. VVS is on the level of something like France in operational numbers... without the technology. If China was to come crossing that border now, we would be in hella trouble. We need 1000 new fighters yesterday.

GarryB

I agree about 100 Su35 will give a lot of teeth to VVS. And when you add PAK-FA into equation, whose number will eventually go to 200+, Add upgraded Su-27SM and Mig29SMT and that is 400-500 air dominance fighters. A very capable air force. Only thing is that PAK-FA must succeed. I personally think they should stop making any more Flanker versions and concentrate on Su-34, Su-35, Pakfa and upgrading older ones, not sure about Mig-35, instead Mig can work on 5th gen small fighter or even a UCAV.

I personally think when Indian AF Mig29UPG deal was signed Russia could have offered or India could have asked as well, some of Russian Mig29 for IAF, which were in similar condition to IAF Mig29(airframe usage wise). They could have signed a deal to acquire second hand Russian Mig29 cheaply and paid in full for the upgrade, exact same amount that IAF is paying per airframe for bringing Indian Mig29 to UPG standard. I don't think Russia is going to find much use for many of its Mig29 airframes .

It would have been a win win situation for each side. Russia would have got more extra funds to apply upgrades to its own Mig29 planes and India could have raised is squadron strength which is a real worry we have in my country. 60 planes would have got IAF 3 squadrons with infrastructure, tactics, maintainable and pilots which is already there. The only problem I think which stopped Indian side from acquiring more Mig29 is bad rep Mig(not sukhoi) has in India in general. After all Mig29UPG can do almost any thing an Mirage2000 upgrade can do and India is paying about 40 milion plus per airframe for upgrade only for its mirages and it doesn't exceed the level of 29UPG.

Corrosion wrote:GarryB

instead Mig can work on 5th gen small fighter or even a UCAV.

www.ntv.ru/novosti/115567/video/

That Mig UCAV was made 5 years ago. Must be refined by now.

It would be neat if that UCAV could take off with a Tupolev TU-95...then TU-95 releases refueling hose from rear, UCAV hooks up to it and gets towed to where it's needed. Gets released when near target airspace..spy...then come back and hook up for the tow home. It's light, simple fuel hose could tow it. Only modification to TU-95 is reel with hose in tail. Could have guy in tail of a TU-95 with a funnel and fuel can to pour down hose to save development costs.

Or is this what they've been doing all along?

I agree about 100 Su35 will give a lot of teeth to VVS. And when you add PAK-FA into equation, whose number will eventually go to 200+, Add upgraded Su-27SM and Mig29SMT and that is 400-500 air dominance fighters. A very capable air force. Only thing is that PAK-FA must succeed. I personally think they should stop making any more Flanker versions and concentrate on Su-34, Su-35, Pakfa and upgrading older ones, not sure about Mig-35, instead Mig can work on 5th gen small fighter or even a UCAV.

Practise building Mig-35s will be good for the production aspect of MIG, this aircraft incorporates new 5th gen stuff they are likely also working on for their 5th gen fighter.
More importantly they have production capacity whereas the makers of Flankers are also the makers of T-50s and will be very busy over the next few years sorting out both aircraft.

There is likely a few finishing touches needed for the Mig-35 too and it offers a potential cheaper alternative for countries operating Mig-29s than a T-50 till a light 5th gen can be designed and built.

AFAIK the SKAT was shown because development was terminated and that is the only reason it was revealed... to get external support and funding. I believe Mig and Sukhoi are now working within the structure of the UAC that they are both part of to develop a new UCAV.

Now that the prototypes of the T-50 are flying and that program is going ahead well it seems, they might start looking at a light 5th gen fighter as a numbers fighter for Russia and as a primary fighter for smaller countries.

I personally think when Indian AF Mig29UPG deal was signed Russia could have offered or India could have asked as well, some of Russian Mig29 for IAF, which were in similar condition to IAF Mig29(airframe usage wise). They could have signed a deal to acquire second hand Russian Mig29 cheaply and paid in full for the upgrade, exact same amount that IAF is paying per airframe for bringing Indian Mig29 to UPG standard. I don't think Russia is going to find much use for many of its Mig29 airframes .

I think the problem so far is that Sukhoi has too much political power. The SMT upgrade in its basic form is a modest upgrade that greatly reduces the operational costs of owning and using Mig-29s. It doesn't surprise me that European countries within NATO weren't interested because their bias means they wanted to get F-16s as soon as possible anyway as a political gesture, but for the Russians and Indians I think they looked at the upgrade and thought it looked nice but there was no point in making the Mig-29 a multirole fighter able to use air to ground guided weapons when they operate in interceptor units that will never use half the new capabilities.
The problem is that the upgrade includes all sorts of self testing and equipment monitoring systems and the new equipment is easier to service and support it becomes much cheaper to fly and operate than a standard Mig.
The Mig-29SMT aircraft Algeria rejected are currently the most sophisticated and capable fighters in the Russian AF inventory. One of the cheapest SMT upgrades doesn't even replace the radar, it simply modifies it to allow new weapons to be used.

Russia is never going to be able to afford more than 200 odd PAK FAs, so a lighter 5th gen fighter is needed. Mig would be ideal to make that fighter as long as it remains a viable company. If it has no orders and no work it will not remain a viable company.
Besides their production capacity would be useful to add to the capacity of all the Sukhoi factories... some of which are busy with the Superjet civilian aircraft.

The only problem I think which stopped Indian side from acquiring more Mig29 is bad rep Mig(not sukhoi) has in India in general.

I think MIG need to work on their customer service, but when there are no domestic orders for 20 years it is not easy to keep customers happy. Half their problem was that they were trying to sell Mig-29s during a period when air forces were getting rid of extra aircraft.
I can understand Mig not offering the best customer service when India goes to Eastern Europe to buy cheap parts and support equipment for their Migs. Problem is when these parts turn out to be fake.
Several sales of Migs to customers from Air Forces getting rid of airframes seemed to save money but when it came time to buy spare parts the air forces in question wanted to sell airframes, they didn't want to sell their supply of spare parts which they were keeping for their remaining aircraft or simply didn't have in the first place and that is why they were selling the air frames.
Mig suddenly becomes the bad guy when it refuses to sell parts for planes it didn't supply?

There is probably more money to be made in spares and support than selling the aircraft in the first place. Spares and support rarely includes offsets etc so it is more profitable.

That Mig UCAV was made 5 years ago. Must be refined by now.

As far as I know the SKAT is a dead program. It was a Mig program while Sukhoi had its own UCAV program. It seems they compared notes or both ideas were tested and Sukhois product was deemed better. The Skat was revealed to see if there was any international interest or funding... which apparently there wasn't, so Mig dropped the program and joined Sukhois program to develop their UCAV.

There is a stealthy UCAV program, but it is something we haven't seen yet and with both companies working on it it should be quite good.

From memory the SKAT was to have a flight speed of 800km/h and a flight radius of 2,000km and a 3 ton payload.

The idea of towing UCAVs behind strategic bombers is interesting, they could be sent ahead to deal with any still active air defences... but I think in smaller conflicts it should already have the range capacity to reach most targets, where its stealth design should allow it to operate at medium and high altitude where it can fly faster and further than would be possible at low level.

A promising new Russian LLS has won the gold medal in Geneva back in May this year. Although a civilian system it does obviously have a potential military application...

Kurumoch Airport has been awarded a Gold Medal at the
39th International Exhibition of Inventions in Geneva for its Glissada-M laser landing system
http://uwww.aero/en/news/26.05.2011/2863/

A prototype glidepath laser landing system called Glissada-M was introduced at the 39th International Exhibition of Inventions in Geneva that took place from 6th to 10th April 2011, by the Innovative-Investment Fund of the Samara Region. This system developed by Kurumoch Airport in partnership with ZAO Glissada and ZAO Kantegir (Saratov) has been awarded a Gold Medal and Diploma at this prestigious event.

The representatives of 45 countries from all continents participated at the exhibition in Geneva this April with more than one thousand innovations. But only some of them won Gold Medals, one of the highest accolades of this event. Among them was Kurumoch International Airport.

Note:

Glissada-M is a brand new unique system that, in addition to the existing modern airfield lighting systems, helps approaching aircraft complete a safe landing with zero-zero visibility, meeting Meteorological Minimum Category II and III conditions. Flight safety being the most important criterion here.

By now, the Glissada-M laser landing system has been successfully tested in visual and adverse weather conditions on aerodromes in Samara and Saratov but also in the Russian airbase Novolazarevskaya in Antarctica.

Certification of Glissada-M is now the final required step to introducing the system in Russia on aerodromes and at airports that are not equipped with lights that help indicate the approach.

there's more info from a Russian article (fragments translated)

- At the Samara airport tested an innovative system of landing aircraft. Accuracy of landing - 50 centimeters

...

- The system has been tested in Antarctica during the polar night, where a IL-76 has successfully carried out a precision night landing.

The LLS has been tested in Antarctica at the station "Novolazarevskaya". The continent does not contain any fixed airfield. For a few months during the polar night, Antarctica remains without an air service. Test pilot Ruben Yesayan became the first in the world, who landed a heavy IL-76 in the Antarctic night.

"Visibility has deteriorated to less than 2000 meters. But we clearly saw the rays and landed on them. At this airport there are no special systems, we came in to land only by those rays, "- said the test pilot of the State Institute of Civil Aviation Ruben Yesayan.

...

- Three laser beams in 'T' shape guide the aircraft to the runway. The rays are visible at night and in bad weather (mist and torrential rain and blizzards)




Airports from Denmark, France, Austria, Czech Republic have shown interest in the system. However, at least 3 years of tests are expected before it's certified as commercial product.

Source: http://www.nanonewsnet.ru/articles/2011/v-samare-sazhayut-samolety-s-pomoshchyu-lazerov

The Soviets had a fully automatic landing system for their Kiev class carriers for the Yak-38 and Yak-38M.
Don't think it used lasers though, but was described by western observers as being "rock solid".


Saw a technology update on RT the other day and it showed a laser system for use at airports that detects wind speed and direction.

The system itself looked like a 152mm artillery shell but with the top cut flat with an optics window in the top and it fires a laser up into the clouds and measures the effect wind has on the lasers. It replaces a 20-30m tall tower that is covered in wind speed and direction sensors and seems to be very accurate.

The future for airports seems to be lots of lasers...

Ministry of Defense of Russia will acquire 6 An-140 aircraft in 2012


Aviacor enterprise (Samara) will deliver six An-140 and two Tu-154 aircraft to the Russian Ministry of Defense in 2012. According to Lenta.ru, it has been reported by CEO of Aviacor, Alexey Gusev. He said that there are no problems with financing of these aircraft’s manufacturing, "the advancing is taking place according to schedule".

The contract on delivery of An-140s to the Ministry of Defense has been signed in 2011. According to the agreement, Ministry of Defense shall acquire ten such vehicles. Probably, the rest four aircraft will be delivered in 2013. The acquisition of the vehicles is taking place in the network of State program in the area of arms for 2011-2020.

Meanwhile, Aviacor has a large number of orders for different versions of An-140. In particular, the enterprise must deliver 60-70 aircraft to Rosoboronexport in the next few years and six more An-140s to the St. Petersburg-based Radar MMS company. Due to increase of order backlog, Aviacor intends to expand its staff by 250 employees.

An-140 mixed cargo aircraft has a maximum flight speed of 540 km/h and its practical range is about 3000 km. The aircraft is intended for carrying 52 passengers. The military transport version - An-140T may transport cargo, weighing up to 6 tons.

http://www.ruaviation.com/news/2012/1/20/741/

Any reason why Russian cockpit use blue green colour ?

http://русская-сила.рф/guide/air/s/su34-21.jpg

Compare that to Indian Navy Mig-29K which uses pale grey colour

http://farm4.staticflickr.com/3186/2555955534_80125abe0c_b.jpg

I see even the latest Su-35 and PAK-FA cockpit with blue green colour

If the background colour was black it would absorb light and make the cockpit appear darker than it actually was.

For the same reason most textbooks have white pages with black text.

There is no physical reason why they couldn't make the pages black and the text white, but by making the page white it increases the amount of light reflected from the page which makes it brighter and clearer.

They tested a lot of colours and found the Blue Green colour to be light enough to reflect a lot of light to make the instruments easier to read, while not reflecting so much light as to create glare and make the instruments hard to look at.

Russia to Modernize All Military Airfields by 2020

All of Russia’s military airfields will be upgraded and modernized by 2020, Defense Ministry spokesman Col Vladimir Drik said on Thursday.

That includes airbases, flight test and training centers, army aviation sites, and other facilities, he said.

This year construction of new runways and command and control structures will begin at military airports in the Krasnodar territory, and the Saratov, Astrakhan, and Kaliningrad regions.

Gen Nikolai Makarov, chief of the General Staff of the Russian Armed Forces, said in November the Defense Ministry had a total of 356 aerodromes.

http://www.en.ria.ru/mlitary_news/20120126/170964645.html

Excellent news... there is no point in spending enormous amounts of money on new kit and not giving the bases they operate from a good upgrade.

Russia Revives Production of Flarecraft



Russia’s Federal Border Guard Service is planning to build a center for the production of flarecraft to improve protection of the country’s maritime borders.

Russian media cited a government source on Friday saying that the center will be built at the former Avangard shipyard in the northern city of Petrozavodsk.

Flarecraft, also referred to as wing-in-ground effect (WIGE) vehicles or by the Russian term ekranoplan, are vehicles that fly near the surface of the Earth due to the ground effect created by the aerodynamic interaction of the wings and the surface.

At present, the Orion-20 flarecraft is being built in Petrozavodsk. It will serve as a testing platform for engines, navigation equipment and control and safety systems of the future vehicles.

The Central Hydrofoil Design Bureau (CHDB) was the center of flarecraft development in the Soviet Union.

The Soviet ekranoplan program produced a variety of military and civilian flarecraft, including the 125-ton A-90 Orlyonok.

The Orlyonok ekranoplans were originally developed as high-speed military transports, and were usually based on the shores of the Caspian Sea and Black Sea.

A few Orlyonoks served with the Soviet Navy from 1979 to 1992. In 1987, a 400-ton Lun class ekranoplan was built as a missile launcher.Since the dissolution of the Soviet Union, small-size ekranoplans have been produced by the Volga Shipyard in Nizhniy Novgorod but mass production has been folded due to a shortage of funds and lack of demand.

The Russian Defense Ministry has not shown interest in military flarecraft and the financing of their production has not been included in the state armament procurement program until 2020.

However, Border Guard Service officials believe that ekranoplans may prove effective in the protection of shipping routes in the Arctic and Russian borders along major rivers, such as the Amur and Danube.

http://www.en.ria.ru/mlitary_news/20120127/170987800.html

When I first saw this post my initial thought was that they have introduced an aircraft specifically designed to release flares at night for night operations...

It is good that the Ekranoplans are going to be used... they are certainly an interesting idea, though they are not likely to replace all ships and aircraft.

What is the unit cost of Su-35S and Su-34 that Russian Air Force is procuring for it self ? I am sure it must be lower then export model price but by how much ?

Hard to say, if we look at money given by gov to Sukhoi to create programs and production lines, but at least sometime ago saw Su-34 unit cost was somewhere around 34 million USD for the RuAF.

Hard to say what Su-35 price was, but the deal signed @ MAKS 2009 was 2.5 billion USD for 48 Su-35, plus the Su-27s and Su-30s.

How many Su-27SM and Su-30 were ordered , we will atleast have some rough figures for unit cost in terms of average

48 Su-35C, 12 Su-27SM3, and the four Su-30M2.

Pretty cheap if we even it out. I wonder how much credit the gov gave to Sukhoi though, the project is of national importance. That doesn't figure into unit cost.

Yeah comes to $40 million per aircraft , quite cost effective price for fly away coast.

Although i think they do not include R&D cost and other cost involved for production technology etc.

A reliable person told me that indian MMRCA Rafale cost is $18 billion for 126 Aircraft comes to ~ $142 million per aircraft.


I have read that there will be re-order of equal amount of Su-35 once this order is complete.

18 billion for 126?!?! That is lot worse than I honestly expected. I though it would include potential add on orders, and the initial deal was for 11 billion. Hopefully India is getting a lot of extras in this deal, as it should not be footing any of the development and research. Of course, kickbacks and indigenous production set up are a big part of the deal, hopefully the money recycles into India.

Indeed a second follow on of 48 Su-35C is expect after the 1st batch is complete. Will be interesting how much that deal is for. Also how much the Su-30SM will be from Irkut.

Well there is the cost involved in some Transfer of Technology and setting up production to build most of Rafale in India , a new factory will be build ..... then take into account machines need to be imported , training manpower etc

I will be surprised if they can get all that at $11 billion considering Western aircraft be it Rafale or Typhoon are darn expensive bird.

And if you see the cost of 500 Mica we purchased for Mirage upgrade it costed us $1.2 billion.

French equipment are quite reliable but they are quite costly.

Now that is some very good news, -if it will be realized-. Air power is very important to me. And Mother Russia, unlike the US is perfectly capable of producing some excellent off-the-shelf fighter aircraft. Don't you just instantly fall in love with the Su-35BM? Equipmentwise, the Russian Air Force would be more then perfectly served with this bird. Sukhoi is soooo number one.

Personally I have gone through a bit of a roller coaster regarding the looks of Russian and Soviet fighters...

I loved the WWII models... especially the La-5FN and La-11, but also the Mig-3 and Yak-9.

With their post war models there was a tendency for winged tubes like the Mig-21 and Su-9 and Su-11 and Su-17 and at the time I got a little bored with the shapes, though I loved the Mig-25 shape, the other tube places seemed a little boring.

Then in the Mig-23 and then Mig-29 and Su-27 were revealed and it was so exciting because they were so different.

Even today I love the lines of the newer aircraft, but have started to appreciate the older tube planes too, plus of course the odd fighters like the Su-15 and the Tu-128...

I am beginning to warm to their drive for high technology everywhere and hope it expands into a national thing where technology spreads beyond the boundaries of Moscow and into the small villages. I am talking about green technology like solar power and wind power generation.

I'm not really in to ancient tech. I'm in love with Su-35Sexy. Dear Santa.....

I think part of my interest in old tech is to appreciate how far we have come in such a short time.

I mean really... if you think about it... the first fixed wing aircraft to fly in 1900 or so, and then leaving the earths atmosphere less than one human lifetime later to stand on the moon...