Russia Defence Forum

Would you like to react to this message? Create an account in a few clicks or log in to continue.

Military Forum for Russian and Global Defence Issues


+75
Isos
Hole
limb
Mir
ALAMO
lyle6
thegopnik
Tolstoy
Gomig-21
Dr.Snufflebug
T-47
marcellogo
Kiko
Scorpius
Belisarius
sepheronx
ludovicense
diabetus
Azi
caveat emptor
Backman
Podlodka77
Krepost
pukovnik7
AlfaT8
Lennox
Broski
Arrow
Russian_Patriot_
galicije83
TMA1
Atmosphere
lancelot
Tingsay
PhSt
The_Observer
mnztr
LMFS
RTN
kvs
kopyo-21
Sujoy
Big_Gazza
AJ-47
Austin
Mindstorm
ahmedfire
hoom
nero
medo
ultimatewarrior
calripson
magnumcromagnon
DerWolf
Cyrus the great
Cyberspec
ult
0nillie0
Nibiru
flamming_python
william.boutros
Walther von Oldenburg
JohninMK
higurashihougi
miketheterrible
xeno
franco
George1
KomissarBojanchev
The-thing-next-door
Interlinked
GarryB
KoTeMoRe
Werewolf
PapaDragon
79 posters

    T-90 Main Battle Tank #2

    avatar
    ALAMO


    Posts : 6314
    Points : 6406
    Join date : 2014-11-25

    T-90 Main Battle Tank #2 - Page 37 Empty Re: T-90 Main Battle Tank #2

    Post  ALAMO Wed Jan 31, 2024 12:08 pm

    Just in case for nonRussian speaking team.
    Those K1 bricks are being made all Russia vide by volunteers, that are using standardized molds for them.
    About 67 THOUSAND pcs were already provided to the front. It takes about 300 bricks to fully cover a tank.

    GarryB, franco, LMFS, Hole, lyle6 and lancelot like this post

    lyle6
    lyle6


    Posts : 2098
    Points : 2092
    Join date : 2020-09-14
    Location : Philippines

    T-90 Main Battle Tank #2 - Page 37 Empty Re: T-90 Main Battle Tank #2

    Post  lyle6 Thu Feb 01, 2024 4:17 am

    Hole wrote:
    T-90 Main Battle Tank #2 - Page 37 39960210
    Whoever designed this cage really knows what they are doing.

    First of all the cage is set at a height that clears both the gunners and the commanders multichannel sights while more importantly not allowing for an FPV to shimmy through. I've seen clever FPV pilots that slowly hover their way in the space between for earlier cages so its good that they've addressed this.

    The hatches also look to be perfectly functional behind that light wire mesh screen though of course it doesn't have the ERA protection against more direct hits. Still, better to have that option when you need it than maybe improve protection against the literal hole in one chance of an FPV hitting a hatch.

    They also only used a single layer of 4S20 reactive element this time which saved a lot of weight rather than using a whole block. This is key because the oblique diving trajectories of FPVs and top-attack ATGMs (both have to maintain LOS to the target so straight vertical drops just don't happen) means the second inclined tile packaged in the Kontakt-1 block is effectively useless - only the bottom flat tile effectively interacts with the cumulative jet in any meaningful way since relative to the projectile it is angled at more than 60 degrees.

    Combined with the base roof ERA that top armor is now effectively resistant against tandem top-attack ATGMs like Spike and Javelin. Pretty cool, huh? Twisted Evil

    GarryB, Big_Gazza, kvs, LMFS, Hole, lancelot and jon_deluxe like this post

    Hole
    Hole


    Posts : 10364
    Points : 10344
    Join date : 2018-03-24
    Age : 47
    Location : Scholzistan

    T-90 Main Battle Tank #2 - Page 37 Empty Re: T-90 Main Battle Tank #2

    Post  Hole Thu Feb 01, 2024 12:05 pm

    Bolton: The Russians stole it from us!

    GarryB, Big_Gazza and kvs like this post

    AlfaT8
    AlfaT8


    Posts : 2439
    Points : 2430
    Join date : 2013-02-02

    T-90 Main Battle Tank #2 - Page 37 Empty Re: T-90 Main Battle Tank #2

    Post  AlfaT8 Thu Feb 15, 2024 11:38 pm

    Hole
    Hole


    Posts : 10364
    Points : 10344
    Join date : 2018-03-24
    Age : 47
    Location : Scholzistan

    T-90 Main Battle Tank #2 - Page 37 Empty Re: T-90 Main Battle Tank #2

    Post  Hole Fri Feb 16, 2024 2:49 pm

    T-90 Main Battle Tank #2 - Page 37 42645310
    T-90 Main Battle Tank #2 - Page 37 60006110
    T-90 Main Battle Tank #2 - Page 37 78858110
    Western MSM: Russia is running out of tanks.
    Russia: Hold my beer!

    GarryB, franco, ahmedfire, George1, Big_Gazza, kvs, ALAMO and like this post

    Hole
    Hole


    Posts : 10364
    Points : 10344
    Join date : 2018-03-24
    Age : 47
    Location : Scholzistan

    T-90 Main Battle Tank #2 - Page 37 Empty Re: T-90 Main Battle Tank #2

    Post  Hole Fri Feb 16, 2024 2:50 pm

    T-90 Main Battle Tank #2 - Page 37 Zaxqbz10
    New ERA packs for the front?

    GarryB, ahmedfire, Big_Gazza, ALAMO, lyle6, lancelot and Belisarius like this post

    avatar
    ALAMO


    Posts : 6314
    Points : 6406
    Join date : 2014-11-25

    T-90 Main Battle Tank #2 - Page 37 Empty Re: T-90 Main Battle Tank #2

    Post  ALAMO Fri Feb 16, 2024 2:53 pm

    They are modifying it so fast that it is hard to catch up.

    What caught my attention on the lats Putins visit : the workforce age is shockingly young.
    The guy who asked VVP a question was 33 and looked at the oldest guy in the group.
    Lots of young women working there straight on the production.

    GarryB, franco, ahmedfire, Big_Gazza, kvs, PapaDragon, Hole and like this post

    franco
    franco


    Posts : 6661
    Points : 6687
    Join date : 2010-08-18

    T-90 Main Battle Tank #2 - Page 37 Empty Re: T-90 Main Battle Tank #2

    Post  franco Fri Feb 16, 2024 2:57 pm

    What was it a 20-25% increase in workers last year? A lot of young people including females learning high paying trades... win win!

    GarryB, Big_Gazza, kvs, PapaDragon, Hole and lyle6 like this post

    avatar
    ALAMO


    Posts : 6314
    Points : 6406
    Join date : 2014-11-25

    T-90 Main Battle Tank #2 - Page 37 Empty Re: T-90 Main Battle Tank #2

    Post  ALAMO Fri Feb 16, 2024 3:00 pm

    Yeah, they all admit that Nizhny Novgorod is a fine place to live, and the working and paying conditions are fine.

    GarryB, Big_Gazza, kvs and PapaDragon like this post

    GarryB
    GarryB


    Posts : 38519
    Points : 39019
    Join date : 2010-03-30
    Location : New Zealand

    T-90 Main Battle Tank #2 - Page 37 Empty Re: T-90 Main Battle Tank #2

    Post  GarryB Sat Feb 17, 2024 4:24 am

    Ironic the enemy soldier gets older and they are adding the other gender, while the worker supporting the military machine that is wiping them out gets younger and includes both genders.

    ahmedfire, Big_Gazza, kvs and Hole like this post

    sepheronx
    sepheronx


    Posts : 8449
    Points : 8711
    Join date : 2009-08-06
    Age : 34
    Location : Canada

    T-90 Main Battle Tank #2 - Page 37 Empty Re: T-90 Main Battle Tank #2

    Post  sepheronx Sat Feb 17, 2024 12:09 pm



    Kinda skip to around 8mins in. Putin goes into that they will increase funding for the technical schools to grow number of students for skilled workforce in the this field.

    GarryB, Cyberspec, Big_Gazza, kvs, ALAMO, Hole, lyle6 and lancelot like this post

    lyle6
    lyle6


    Posts : 2098
    Points : 2092
    Join date : 2020-09-14
    Location : Philippines

    T-90 Main Battle Tank #2 - Page 37 Empty Re: T-90 Main Battle Tank #2

    Post  lyle6 Tue Feb 20, 2024 2:42 pm

    They will have their work cut out for them. The Russian military is going to recapitalize everything Soviet over the next 10-20 years. Tens of thousands of pieces of equipment will have to be mass manufactured in order to keep the edge over every conceivable opponent especially now that we know that the USSR's militarism was not for naught after all.

    As a nice bonus this would free up the still massive stocks of Soviet weaponry to arm up every motherfucker with an ax to grind against the west. One could imagine a rerun of the decades spanning massive worldwide anti-colonialist insurrections fueled by Soviet arms surplus, only this time the west is no shape to contest a further weakening grip on the planet.

    GarryB, kvs, Hole and lancelot like this post

    galicije83
    galicije83


    Posts : 172
    Points : 174
    Join date : 2015-04-30
    Age : 44
    Location : Serbia

    T-90 Main Battle Tank #2 - Page 37 Empty Re: T-90 Main Battle Tank #2

    Post  galicije83 Tue Feb 20, 2024 6:47 pm

    Hole wrote:T-90 Main Battle Tank #2 - Page 37 19787010
    T-90 Main Battle Tank #2 - Page 37 39960210
    T-90 Main Battle Tank #2 - Page 37 76695910
    More roof armor

    This steel plate under the ERA K1 is to thin. If you wanna to ERA work properly you need at least 35-40mm thick steel plate....
    avatar
    ALAMO


    Posts : 6314
    Points : 6406
    Join date : 2014-11-25

    T-90 Main Battle Tank #2 - Page 37 Empty Re: T-90 Main Battle Tank #2

    Post  ALAMO Tue Feb 20, 2024 7:50 pm

    I will tell you a secret.
    Maybe that is why this is a reduced-size brick, around 1/3rd of the usual K1 thickness.
    Just suggesting.

    GarryB and psg like this post

    GarryB
    GarryB


    Posts : 38519
    Points : 39019
    Join date : 2010-03-30
    Location : New Zealand

    T-90 Main Battle Tank #2 - Page 37 Empty Re: T-90 Main Battle Tank #2

    Post  GarryB Wed Feb 21, 2024 2:57 am

    This steel plate under the ERA K1 is to thin. If you wanna to ERA work properly you need at least 35-40mm thick steel plate....

    What do you mean?

    This ERA does not need to stop the threat... this ERA is to set the threat off at a distance from the actual ERA and actual armour...

    and BTW if ERA does not work if it is not covering 35-40mm of armour plate then ERA on tank tops has been a waste of time all this time because most tanks would be lucky to have 20mm of steel protection there... Leopards even less.

    It stops drones dropping hand grenades or small munitions into the hatches of the tank turret... it creates a spaced layer above the tank turret that will be cold and not show up on thermal imagers like in Javelin missiles... so when you are in front of or beside a tank and you launch your missile you are looking at the tank and you see the heat from it but when your missile climbs up it sees the cage which is not hot and it can't find the tank target any more and misses.

    I suspect soldiers in combat will realise they can't see up through it so they might as well put bedding and bulky kit on top for storage and added layers of protection.

    Things that make it look less like a tank.

    ahmedfire, kvs and Hole like this post

    avatar
    ALAMO


    Posts : 6314
    Points : 6406
    Join date : 2014-11-25

    T-90 Main Battle Tank #2 - Page 37 Empty Re: T-90 Main Battle Tank #2

    Post  ALAMO Wed Feb 21, 2024 8:29 am

    GarryB wrote:
    What do you mean?

    If you are asking me, he is trying to convince us how little to share he has, no matter the nice avatar.

    "35-40 mm steel plate" is just one more example of our "Galizien" friend being ... you name it.
    That would make all of BMP around the world a no-go for additional ERA panels Laughing
    Because I will reveal one more secret!
    For some of them, the thickness of a steel plates of the spaced armor on the sides can be as astonishing as 6 (six) mm.
    Of course, an ERA package on a 6mm thick side plate is possible only because we are dealing with Wunderwaffle M2 Bradley, and Uebermanschliche technology that only the land of free and brave, Murica, has.
    Laughing Laughing Laughing Laughing

    GarryB and Hole like this post

    lyle6
    lyle6


    Posts : 2098
    Points : 2092
    Join date : 2020-09-14
    Location : Philippines

    T-90 Main Battle Tank #2 - Page 37 Empty Re: T-90 Main Battle Tank #2

    Post  lyle6 Wed Feb 21, 2024 9:31 am

    galicije83 wrote:
    This steel plate under the ERA K1 is to thin. If you wanna to ERA work properly you need at least 35-40mm thick steel plate....
    You're confusing the back plate of the container with the flyer plate for the reactive element tile. That container merely holds the reactive elements at the optimum strike angle for cumulative warheads coming in from the top. It doesn't need to be any thicker to do this (The face plate could be, but that is mainly against HMG fires and as far as I can tell they haven't managed a flying HMG - yet).

    GarryB, kvs and Hole like this post

    Hole
    Hole


    Posts : 10364
    Points : 10344
    Join date : 2018-03-24
    Age : 47
    Location : Scholzistan

    T-90 Main Battle Tank #2 - Page 37 Empty Re: T-90 Main Battle Tank #2

    Post  Hole Wed Feb 21, 2024 11:25 am

    For some of them, the thickness of a steel plates of the spaced armor on the sides can be as astonishing as 6 (six) mm.
    Didn´t the dudes from Combat Approved test ERA packs with Mini-Vans or SUVs?

    GarryB, kvs, ALAMO and jon_deluxe like this post

    avatar
    ALAMO


    Posts : 6314
    Points : 6406
    Join date : 2014-11-25

    T-90 Main Battle Tank #2 - Page 37 Empty Re: T-90 Main Battle Tank #2

    Post  ALAMO Wed Feb 21, 2024 11:52 am

    He was using UAZ Patriot for the task.
    It is a hell of a solid car, yet the steel used for it is some 1mm Laughing
    A full size Kontakt-1 bricks were spaced with a rack.

    Can I tell you another secret?

    T-90 Main Battle Tank #2 - Page 37 Main-q14

    This is a general armor scheme of early T-64 turret.

    T-72 has a very similar layout, with 45mm steel angeled at 78 - 80 deg, depending on the location.
    And double that - 90 mm sloped at 80 deg above the gun breech.

    Who wants to bet, if t-90M has same or better? Twisted Evil

    Secret revealed! Laughing Laughing

    GarryB, kvs, Hole, lyle6 and jon_deluxe like this post

    marcellogo
    marcellogo


    Posts : 615
    Points : 621
    Join date : 2012-08-02
    Age : 55
    Location : Italy

    T-90 Main Battle Tank #2 - Page 37 Empty Re: T-90 Main Battle Tank #2

    Post  marcellogo Wed Feb 21, 2024 1:23 pm

    It actually exist TWO types of containers for ERA: one is light and blow up when the ERA elements blows up, others are quite heavy and does not tears when hit but only slip out a little on the front part to allow the overpressure of the explosion to exit out.
    K-1 is of the first type, alls the other Russia used of the second one.
    So, they alternatively put the K-1 on the roof for weight reason or developed a sturdier casing.

    GarryB, kvs and lyle6 like this post

    GarryB
    GarryB


    Posts : 38519
    Points : 39019
    Join date : 2010-03-30
    Location : New Zealand

    T-90 Main Battle Tank #2 - Page 37 Empty Re: T-90 Main Battle Tank #2

    Post  GarryB Thu Feb 22, 2024 2:37 am

    ERA on cage armour is spaced armour that has an effect in addition to actual ERA on the tank and of course the tank armour underneath the ERA itself.

    Putting these ERA blocks on the cage armour is like putting ERA blocks on any cage armour... it is to set off HEAT rounds prematurely away from the main armour with the hope of deflecting or decreasing its effect.

    This is not side on armour that might take KORNET or METIS hits directly, this is roof armour that is basically up against hand grenades and light top attack submunitions and Javelin missiles.

    Hand grenades are effectively nullified by this armour because to be effective it has to hit optics or go into open hatches which this roof armour prevents.

    As I mentioned this stuff will be cold compared with the heated engine deck so a Javelin would have trouble getting a lock in combat.

    And because the US ran out of conventional ammo and had to send submunition warheads (which is a war crime in fact) then this armour is actually very useful because most top attack submunition rounds that are little HEAT rounds like the PTAB series of soviet munitions only penetrate 100-200mm so ERA half a metre away from the actual armour and then more ERA and the actual roof armour is most likely going to stop such munitions from doing a lot of damage.

    The cost is probably a few hundred dollars and a few hours putting it together and a minor increase in weight for the result... a safer tank.

    Money and time well spent.

    lyle6 likes this post

    GarryB
    GarryB


    Posts : 38519
    Points : 39019
    Join date : 2010-03-30
    Location : New Zealand

    T-90 Main Battle Tank #2 - Page 37 Empty Re: T-90 Main Battle Tank #2

    Post  GarryB Thu Feb 22, 2024 2:40 am

    If you are asking me, he is trying to convince us how little to share he has, no matter the nice avatar.

    There is no need to be rude.

    Whether you agree or disagree should not matter, there is no need to get personal.

    He is not rude to others and does not claim to always be right about anything or everything... just dial it down and cut him some slack please.

    lyle6 and jon_deluxe like this post

    caveat emptor
    caveat emptor


    Posts : 1776
    Points : 1776
    Join date : 2022-02-02
    Location : Murrica

    T-90 Main Battle Tank #2 - Page 37 Empty Re: T-90 Main Battle Tank #2

    Post  caveat emptor Sat Feb 24, 2024 9:58 pm

    @galicije83

    Ja se divim tvojoj upornosti da ulazis u raspravu sa debilima, koji te vredjaju na licnoj osnovi ako imas drugacije misljenje. Moja ti je preporuka da batalis da gubis vreme ovde i lepo odes na nas forum na mycity military sekciju, gde ljudi ne vredjaju jedni druge druge zbog razlika u misljenjima.
    avatar
    ALAMO


    Posts : 6314
    Points : 6406
    Join date : 2014-11-25

    T-90 Main Battle Tank #2 - Page 37 Empty Re: T-90 Main Battle Tank #2

    Post  ALAMO Sat Feb 24, 2024 10:01 pm

    caveat emptor wrote:  @galicije83

    Ja se divim tvojoj upornosti da ulazis u raspravu sa debilima, koji te vredjaju na licnoj osnovi ako imas drugacije misljenje. Moja ti je preporuka da batalis da gubis vreme ovde i lepo odes na nas forum na mycity military sekciju, gde ljudi ne vredjaju jedni druge druge zbog razlika u  misljenjima.

    Tak ty sam debil Laughing

    And yes, take your lazy arses to the other forums indeed Laughing Laughing Laughing
    You will decline the size of the carousel slot even if known projectiles bigger than your opinion fit there for four decades Laughing Laughing Laughing

    Sole idea if you will use your endemic Slav language to offend the other members and fly under the radar is hilarious, knowing that we have multiple Slav community here. Some of them are quite skilled in languages Laughing Laughing Laughing

    GarryB wrote:
    There is no need to be rude.

    You know best that I am hardly ever rude.
    Sick and tired sometimes, hearing the scale of shit all around. Might be.
    Let the one among you who is without sin be the first to throw a stone at me.
    John 8.7, modified.

    You have a hurt ego example right up, using Serbian to offend the community after getting some whipes o his ass.

    Belisarius likes this post

    GarryB
    GarryB


    Posts : 38519
    Points : 39019
    Join date : 2010-03-30
    Location : New Zealand

    T-90 Main Battle Tank #2 - Page 37 Empty Re: T-90 Main Battle Tank #2

    Post  GarryB Sun Feb 25, 2024 7:07 am

    Wow.... lots to unpack...

    First of all @caveat emptor, as you well know this is an English language forum so the use of English or an English summary is compulsary... this is rule number 11.

    11] This is an English language forum so do not post in any language without an English translation or summary, that includes Russian.

    Second, rule number 5,
    5] Do not advertise other forums or Blogs or Vlogs (that includes linking to them)

    The fact that you posted in Croatian to avoid being understood means you knew you were breaking the rules and also insulting others,  I am not going to ignore this when compounded with your recruiting for another forum.

    If you or anyone else wants to leave you are free to do so, I will not beg anyone to stay, but while you post here you obey the rules.

    If you have forgotten them or want a refresh:

    https://www.russiadefence.net/t67-read-rdf-rules-and-regulations

    Giving you a two week ban,  caveat emptor for breaking two rules, but the English language rule is for communication, but you were trying to bypass moderation so you get an extra week for that.

    For other members not fluent in Croatian:

    He said:
    I admire your persistence in arguing with idiots who insult you on a personal basis if you have a different opinion. My advice to you is to waste your time here and go to our forum on mycity military section, where people do not insult each other because of differences of opinion.

    Sole idea if you will use your endemic Slav language to offend the other members and fly under the radar is hilarious, knowing that we have multiple Slav community here. Some of them are quite skilled in languages

    Not to mention ignorant AngloSaxons mods who can use Yandex translate pages.


    You know best that I am hardly ever rude.

    Which is why I picked it up...

    Sick and tired sometimes, hearing the scale of shit all around. Might be.

    I understand, but I think galicije83 got more than he deserved in this case... it is easy enough taking a lot of shit from different directions and then biting the head off the next guy who bothers you, but he was not totally wrong... you can't just put ERA blocks on body armour and think that you are now safe from 30mm and up cannon fire.

    You have a hurt ego example right up, using Serbian to offend the community after getting some whipes o his ass.

    Actually Yandex describes it as Croatian...


    Last edited by GarryB on Mon Feb 26, 2024 1:42 am; edited 1 time in total

    Sponsored content


    T-90 Main Battle Tank #2 - Page 37 Empty Re: T-90 Main Battle Tank #2

    Post  Sponsored content


      Current date/time is Wed Feb 28, 2024 8:11 am