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    T-90 Main Battle Tank #2

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    ALAMO


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    T-90 Main Battle Tank #2 - Page 38 Empty Re: T-90 Main Battle Tank #2

    Post  ALAMO Sun Feb 25, 2024 9:28 am

    Serbian and Croatian are almost the same language.
    The same applies to Bosnian. I can't mark the difference, honestly.
    Slovenian is different.

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    galicije83
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    Post  galicije83 Sun Feb 25, 2024 10:19 am

    Well i know what i am talking about, because we test our KAO 99 ERA and i see what happened to armor if he is thin. Russians put rubber inserts between ERA on roof of tanks, because it will absorbe explosion of era panel, and want activated all panels on the roof. Also this kind of protection will not protect at all tank against of heat charges, because as i said you need more base armor to ERA properly works.

    Because of that you do not have K1 light armor, but he isnt at all light on BMPs or BTRs, because they do not have enough base armor for it...they made new type of ERA for this vehicles, they do not use K1 at all.

    PS. I am Serbian not Croatian....when i write on my Serbian language i use cyrilic alphabet not latin one...


    Last edited by galicije83 on Sun Feb 25, 2024 11:17 am; edited 1 time in total
    Rodion_Romanovic
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    Post  Rodion_Romanovic Sun Feb 25, 2024 10:46 am

    Off topic start:
    ALAMO wrote:Serbian and Croatian are almost the same language.
    The same applies to Bosnian. I can't mark the difference, honestly.
    Slovenian is different.

    Yeah the main difference is that Serbian uses the Cyrillic alphabet, Croatian uses the Latin alphabet.

    So probably Google recognised it as Croatian since it was written with Latin alphabet.

    Furthermore I was told that the Croatian government practically "banned" or better removed from the official language many words which were mainly used in Serbia.
    So if to describe something before there were several synonyms, now the choice has been reduced.

    Off topic ends.

    But anyway,
    Probably the topic is clear for most other users in this thread, but how much unification is present in the latest modification of T-90, T-72 and T-80?
    Do they all use different main guns, turrets, armor and electronics?

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    ALAMO


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    T-90 Main Battle Tank #2 - Page 38 Empty Re: T-90 Main Battle Tank #2

    Post  ALAMO Sun Feb 25, 2024 11:38 am

    What the heck are you even talking about? scratch dunno

    "Rubber" is there not because of isolating/absorbing ERA detonation, but it is a part of anti-radiation protection that was added in the early 80s to all WarPac tanks to let them operate in neutron weapon battlefield.

    This is what it looks like :

    T-90 Main Battle Tank #2 - Page 38 B1ca04b8ec5eea32aa55d2a9689bf918

    You can just take a look at Combat Approval episode, when they placed Kontakt-1 bricks on Uaz Patriot, made of 1mm thick steel sheets. No harm was done to it after detonation.

    If your localized tests proved otherwise, it is a matter of ERA being wrongly constructed. scratch

    In Poland, ERAWA bricks are made with two different thicknesses of the plate, with the upper one being half as thick as the lower one. It is because the detonation travels in a way it finds "easier" - up front.

    T-90 Main Battle Tank #2 - Page 38 Pancerz4-1

    ERAWA-2 has a different construction because it is layered.

    T-90 Main Battle Tank #2 - Page 38 Img005

    The upper steel layer is not even called "plate" in patent documents, but a "lid". Under it, there is a ceramic plate, followed by a thin steel plate of 3-10mm thickness (preferably 5mm), the first layer of hexogen, one more thin steel plate, and one more layer of hexogen.

    It does not require any type of additional provisions, only spacing of 40-50 mm from the main armor - applies to both ERAWA and ERAWA-2.

    Both are constructed as coverage for tanks, BMP/APCs, and field strongholds - which is clearly stated in patents.

    Those are both old patents, from 1988 and 1994, respectively.

    What you see there on the top of the T-90M cage, is a separated 4S20 element being a part of Kontakt-1 ERA package. Every single K1 brick consists of two of those, with air gap in between.

    T-90 Main Battle Tank #2 - Page 38 K-1%2Bangled

    The problem with this layout is the relatively big thickness of a whole brick and a big effectiveness difference when confronted from different angles of attack. But a single 4S20 element is there not to deal with big top attack warheads, but improvised drones with a light load.

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    Post  galicije83 Sun Feb 25, 2024 1:11 pm

    This is Rubber inserts under the ERA bricks I mentioned in my comment not rubber for radiation... And yes i know what i am talking about EA because i see how its work in real life on real vehicle...Combat approved are you joking me. this show is one big joke and nothing more...

    T-90 Main Battle Tank #2 - Page 38 T-90m_11
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    Post  GarryB Mon Feb 26, 2024 1:04 am

    Well i know what i am talking about, because we test our KAO 99 ERA and i see what happened to armor if he is thin.

    The purpose of this roof armour is as standoff armour, where it does not need to stop heavy ATGM HEAT warheads.

    Most of the time the threats will be 30mm APFSDS rounds from an A-10s gatling gun, a 30mm DP round from an AH-64 Apache, a hand grenade or hand grenade sized bomb released from a drone or flown into the vehicle by a drone, a Javelin ATGM, which will likely fail to guide because from above there is no heat signature to get a lock on in the first place and the small HEAT warheads of top attack submunitions from US artillery shells.

    Of those threats this armour defeats by default the hand grenades that have to actually enter the crew hatches to do damage, and also the Javelin missiles which will fail to lock on target because the cage will be cold.

    The other potential threats to the vehicle will have their performance dramatically reduced by this cage mounted protection by setting off HE and HEAT rounds away from the roof armour and roof ERA adding an air gap of half a metre to the defensive layer.

    To make the ERA cage armour stop penetrations completely you would need a rather thick and rather large sheet of armour underneath it which would be incredibly useless... having that sort of weight above your turret would be dangerous and the number of supporting struts needed to hold it in place would be ridiculous.

    It would add too much weight to the turret and likely reduce the rotation rate of the turret and likely lead to other serious problems with the vehicle.

    The problem was hand grenades and RPG rockets on drones and the solution shown addresses that threat efficiently and effectively.

    Also this kind of protection will not protect at all tank against of heat charges, because as i said you need more base armor to ERA properly works.

    Most HEAT charges that would be delivered in this direction are rather weak... especially from submunitions and cannon shells... in such a case this cage armour is just to set the round off rather than stop it completely.

    The text Caveat posted was described as Croatian, but Rodion has explained that sufficiently.

    Combat approved are you joking me. this show is one big joke and nothing more...

    It has a sense of humour, but I don't think they are lying or faking anything.

    This is Rubber inserts under the ERA bricks I mentioned in my comment not rubber for radiation...

    That rubber is external, that vehicle has ERA plates under that rubber material.

    I suspect that is something like Nakidka that is intended to reduce the radar and IR signature of the vehicle.

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    Post  Hole Wed Mar 06, 2024 9:59 am

    T-90 Main Battle Tank #2 - Page 38 91274910

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    Post  Hole Sat Mar 16, 2024 9:13 am

    T-90 Main Battle Tank #2 - Page 38 Yho_y010

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    Post  GarryB Sun Mar 17, 2024 1:32 am

    That image in post 932 makes me think of a palace that has had an extension and a few changes added to make it more grand...

    Funny how over the years the west has laughed at Soviet and Russian innovation... they laughed at the BMP and the smoothbore main tank gun and ERA blocks and cage armour and now roof cage armour.... yet you look at modifications to their vehicles in combat and they copy all these ideas with no mention that they were once mocked.

    I guess it is the enemy propaganda machine that responds to new things before consulting experts and understanding why they do the things they do.

    Even a silly example is the AK-47 with the magazine curved forwards... most graphics and art designers think they should be curved the other way, and in some situations it makes it though to the final cut like the movie "the fifth element".

    T-90 Main Battle Tank #2 - Page 38 Zorg-z10

    T-90 Main Battle Tank #2 - Page 38 D6bqtm10

    For those that don't understand the bullets the AK uses are not straight sided, they get narrower to the front and thicker to the rear so when you stack them they naturally curve. Try to jam them in a straight mag and that is what they will do... jam.

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    Post  lyle6 Thu Mar 21, 2024 12:15 am


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    Post  lyle6 Thu Mar 21, 2024 3:35 am

    Hole wrote:T-90 Main Battle Tank #2 - Page 38 Yho_y010
    This is a new skirt design. See how the ERA modules aren't perfectly flush together? That's because they are attached to the fixed side plate with a chain. If the tank sideswipes something the modules can be pushed and give way instead of being ripped apart.

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    Post  Hole Mon Mar 25, 2024 9:17 pm

    T-90 Main Battle Tank #2 - Page 38 R-rb-o11

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    Post  higurashihougi Thu Apr 11, 2024 11:58 am

    https://www.facebook.com/K01Archive/posts/pfbid06H8H9RBXJiYDSY6dXDhqUYE9SruZaXCQtsUnKhZbtrZREfiDbPTXaSGYoSCStBbel

    T-90's turret assembled at the UVZ factory. Notably, the hatch for extraction of spent cartridge cases here is covered by ERA. Which mean that location has been struck by FPV ammunition in the battlefield.

    T-90 Main Battle Tank #2 - Page 38 43573610

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    Post  lyle6 Thu Apr 11, 2024 1:14 pm


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    Post  GarryB Fri Apr 12, 2024 12:21 am

    T-90's turret assembled at the UVZ factory. Notably, the hatch for extraction of spent cartridge cases here is covered by ERA. Which mean that location has been struck by FPV ammunition in the battlefield.

    That is a bit of an assumption... why would they not put ERA on the spent cartridge ejection hatch?

    They usually put cage armour around the engine exhaust because the heat makes the explosives in ERA sweat and become volatile, but they seem to put the stuff everywhere else because it is effective... why would they not put it on a hatch that opens automatically?
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    Post  Hole Fri Apr 12, 2024 8:57 am

    They put ERA on anything now.
    As soon as they invented transparent ERA blocks they will put them in front of the optics.  Wink Very Happy

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    Post  Atmosphere Tue Apr 16, 2024 9:31 pm

    T-90 Main Battle Tank #2 - Page 38 Scale_10
    contrary to popular belief, Vacuum-1 could fit in the autoloader with very minimal changes

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    Post  higurashihougi Sat Apr 20, 2024 4:59 pm

    Hole wrote:They put ERA on anything now.

    I think probably you are correct...

    T-90 Main Battle Tank #2 - Page 38 437099333_959321305897381_1385429523703330205_n.jpg?_nc_cat=100&ccb=1-7&_nc_sid=5f2048&_nc_ohc=Jy467WTqjZcAb67rLKc&_nc_ht=scontent.fsgn5-5

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    Post  ALAMO Sat Apr 20, 2024 5:14 pm

    Atmosphere wrote:
    contrary to popular belief, Vacuum-1 could fit in the autoloader with very minimal changes

    Yes, but it won't change the dimensional.
    Armor penetration is more or less equal to the length of the penetrator, considering we don't change the speed and the composition.
    Those things can float left or right, considering the armor and the penetrator structure, but those are some minor % only.
    Side hull armor there is 80mm, so by making this relatively small change -we can increase the penetration up for +/-80 mm.
    Which makes +15%.
    Add some changes to the cartridge computer and electric steering in the middle - and you can end up with +20%.
    It's ain't bad at all.

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