Military Forum for Russian and Global Defence Issues


    Talking bollocks thread #2

    flamming_python
    flamming_python

    Posts : 3869
    Points : 3955
    Join date : 2012-01-30

    Talking bollocks thread #2 - Page 38 Empty Re: Talking bollocks thread #2

    Post  flamming_python on Fri May 01, 2020 12:18 am

    Anyway it's offtopic but it doesn't really matter how many cases Russia has, or whether its publishing the death figures according to the same methodology used in Europe and the States

    Because the whole world's fucked and everyone's shipbuilding and military priorities will be drawn down accordingly

    China won't escape. They've done a good job containing the crisis but it doesn't matter. Because China is the world's factory. What happens though when the world stops providing orders for it?

    China went from a projected 6.5% growth in Q1 to a contraction of 6.5%
    That's effectively more than 13% lost in total, probably closer to 14-15% as a 6.5% growth is quite a bit larger than a 6.5% contraction.

    If that happened to China; which ordered very strict quarantines but localized ones, then one can only imagine the coming figures for the US and EU. It will be an absolute disaster.

    Russia will hardly escape either. It has had a less stringent lock-down (outside Moscow anyway), and I can see that some shops are still open and a lot of the restaraunts/coffee stands/etc... are as well, they've just put their sitting space off-limits and operate according to takeaways only.
    But the pandemic is still developing, and even walking down the street today from the job I was just laid-off from which I visited to hand over my work computer and sign termination documents, I could already see the familiar shop I passed by stripped, closed and with a 'for rent' sign. Wonder on which takers they're counting on.

    The people I know that worked in bars, coffee shops, etc... all out of work. A lot of the migrants and seasonal workers - out of work. Walking around the neighbourhood in general I see a lot more seedy types than I did before. Nothing has happened yet that I've seen but I already sense that discomfort, of criminality in the air; where before there was simply none and it felt entirely safe. These warning-sign instincts have evolved in us over hundreds of thousands of years, and they don't fire up for no reason. I try to leave my phone at home when I go out for a walk now. I don't care about getting into a fight, but I do like my phone and there's a lot of stuff on it - it would kill me to see it broken or nipped off in the tussle.
    A couple weeks ago I was walking around the centre with a girl I know. Not too many people on the streets, and the ones that were were either immigrants, bums or people coming up to me and asking for cigarettes. Don't see the police much anywhere, wonder what they're up to.

    The coming months will be the real shock, in Russia and the rest of the world. The repurcusions need time to be felt, but when they will it will be the insurance firms in trouble, then the banks, people rushing to withdraw savings or transfer them into different currencies. Businesses that have so far kept afloat and operating will find that their costs are outweighing their profits and will close down too. A new wave in criminality. The construction sector will seize up, as demand drops like a stone for new living and office space, everyone hedges their bets and avoids investing their savings. Businesses and even larger corporations will face higher rates for loans, will get in trouble because of that. The biggest companies will survive, but will be continiously introducing reductions-in-force and laying off personnel.

    The service sector is completely screwed. They will be the worst-hit, but they're also just the first ones hit - other sectors will follow even if not quite as severely. Production will survive for some time, but ultimately it won't escape the economic downturn and the reduction in orders that will induce over the next half a year, and will be laying off staff just the same. And with the drawing down of the production sector comes the turn of the extraction sector. Coal, metals, raw materials of all kinds - demand will plummet and they'll also fire personnel. We've seen a taste of that with the oil industry; but the rest of them are merely waiting their inevitable turn.

    It's hard to know when the reckoning will be during this year. But it's most likely coming, the march of events has taken on a life of its own and is beyond statesmen's or central banks' capacity to bring under control. A world government might have been able to handle that, but we don't have one and instead all countries economic polices are going to follow their own interests exclusively at the expense of the wider situation.
    And that reckoning is the bursting of the US financial bubble and the dollar's dominance. When this happens every country's economy, China's included, will face yet another massive hit as world trade, finance, stocks, investments are all upturned.

    And the scenario I have described is pretty much how it would happen, even if the coronavirus went away tommorow and everyone exited lockdown the day after that. If it continues to gain ground and overload medical systems, forcing countries to extend lockdowns, the world will end even worse.
    kvs
    kvs

    Posts : 6196
    Points : 6331
    Join date : 2014-09-11
    Location : Canuckistan

    Talking bollocks thread #2 - Page 38 Empty Re: Talking bollocks thread #2

    Post  kvs on Fri May 01, 2020 1:29 am

    The important factor is economic resilience. In the USA there are millions of people actually losing their jobs and not going on
    unpaid vacation. By contrast, in Russia here is a vastly smaller scale of such job loss. So even if the GDP contracts for a few
    months, that is not a fundamental contraction but a Covid-19 shock transient. Just like the late 2014 early 2015 inflation spike
    in Russia disappeared by the end of March 2015. Totally.

    It can be expected that the recovery in Russia will be rapid. In the USA it is hard to tell because it appears a lot of business
    will need to rebuild capital and rehire a workforce. As demonstrated by the 2008 recession, it is probably that the joblessness
    in the USA will not go down for many years. This sort of catabolic downsizing is excessive in the USA and rather tame in
    Russia.

    avatar
    Azi

    Posts : 412
    Points : 408
    Join date : 2016-04-05

    Talking bollocks thread #2 - Page 38 Empty Re: Talking bollocks thread #2

    Post  Azi on Fri May 01, 2020 3:13 am

    kvs wrote:The important factor is economic resilience.   In the USA there are millions of people actually losing their jobs and not going on
    unpaid vacation.   By contrast, in Russia here is a vastly smaller scale of such job loss.   So even if the GDP contracts for a few
    months, that is not a fundamental contraction but a Covid-19 shock transient.   Just like the late 2014 early 2015 inflation spike
    in Russia disappeared by the end of March 2015.   Totally.    

    It can be expected that the recovery in Russia will be rapid.   In the USA it is hard to tell because it appears a lot of business
    will need to rebuild capital and rehire a workforce.   As demonstrated by the 2008 recession, it is probably that the joblessness
    in the USA will not go down for many years.    This sort of catabolic downsizing is excessive in the USA and rather tame in
    Russia.

    Yes! Complete correct! Structures in Russia will not change, people will stay in job and if some companies will struggle the administration can help them. And Russia benefits from a strong domestic market, they don't have to open borders and can restart with production fully. The funds of Russia can help to stimulate the economy. Corona is a blessing for russian oil industry, because murican fracking industry is dead and russian companies can take their market share in the next few years.

    Second best position is...EU. Doesn't look like, because the nations of EU have many dead people from Corona, but most jobs are saved, due to high social security standards. Negative point are the high debts that will overrun the EU zone. Another negative point is the hysteric bullshit from tranatlantic fanbois swapping over EU..."Russia is using the help for countries as a kind of hybrid weapon", "China will pay for Corona"...bla bla. This is the cry of cold warriors from USA that can be heard clear and loud in Europe.

    Losers are China and USA. Why China? Because their market is dead, they can't export now to their customers as before...they have a high debt... After Corona many western companies will relocate the production back to their home countries. China is definitely not a winner of Corona. And USA is completely shattered, the fracking industry is dead for many years....USA can't escape the debt anymore. USA is not complete dead now, but the neoliberal idea of domination is over. Of course USA will recover and it's a strong and rich country, but I think a lot of Americans are pissed off by their system too...spending billions for weapons to fight wars far away from USA and letting own people live in poverty. This can lead to a better change or to a fightback of the neoliberal system, that would be dangerous.

    Okay enough off topic from me now! What a Face
    ultimatewarrior
    ultimatewarrior

    Posts : 966
    Points : 974
    Join date : 2016-09-19
    Location : Waterloo, Ontario, Canada

    Talking bollocks thread #2 - Page 38 Empty Re: Talking bollocks thread #2

    Post  ultimatewarrior on Fri May 01, 2020 4:20 am

    flamming_python wrote:Anyway it's offtopic but it doesn't really matter how many cases Russia has, or whether its publishing the death figures according to the same methodology used in Europe and the States

    Because the whole world's fucked and everyone's shipbuilding and military priorities will be drawn down accordingly

    China won't escape. They've done a good job containing the crisis but it doesn't matter. Because China is the world's factory. What happens though when the world stops providing orders for it?

    China went from a projected 6.5% growth in Q1 to a contraction of 6.5%
    That's effectively more than 13% lost in total, probably closer to 14-15% as a 6.5% growth is quite a bit larger than a 6.5% contraction.

    If that happened to China; which ordered very strict quarantines but localized ones, then one can only imagine the coming figures for the US and EU. It will be an absolute disaster.

    Russia will hardly escape either. It has had a less stringent lock-down (outside Moscow anyway), and I can see that some shops are still open and a lot of the restaraunts/coffee stands/etc... are as well, they've just put their sitting space off-limits and operate according to takeaways only.
    But the pandemic is still developing, and even walking down the street today from the job I was just laid-off from which I visited to hand over my work computer and sign termination documents, I could already see the familiar shop I passed by stripped, closed and with a 'for rent' sign. Wonder on which takers they're counting on.

    The people I know that worked in bars, coffee shops, etc... all out of work. A lot of the migrants and seasonal workers - out of work. Walking around the neighbourhood in general I see a lot more seedy types than I did before. Nothing has happened yet that I've seen but I already sense that discomfort, of criminality in the air; where before there was simply none and it felt entirely safe. These warning-sign instincts have evolved in us over hundreds of thousands of years, and they don't fire up for no reason. I try to leave my phone at home when I go out for a walk now. I don't care about getting into a fight, but I do like my phone and there's a lot of stuff on it - it would kill me to see it broken or nipped off in the tussle.
    A couple weeks ago I was walking around the centre with a girl I know. Not too many people on the streets, and the ones that were were either immigrants, bums or people coming up to me and asking for cigarettes. Don't see the police much anywhere, wonder what they're up to.

    The coming months will be the real shock, in Russia and the rest of the world. The repurcusions need time to be felt, but when they will it will be the insurance firms in trouble, then the banks, people rushing to withdraw savings or transfer them into different currencies. Businesses that have so far kept afloat and operating will find that their costs are outweighing their profits and will close down too. A new wave in criminality. The construction sector will seize up, as demand drops like a stone for new living and office space, everyone hedges their bets and avoids investing their savings. Businesses and even larger corporations will face higher rates for loans, will get in trouble because of that. The biggest companies will survive, but will be continiously introducing reductions-in-force and laying off personnel.

    The service sector is completely screwed. They will be the worst-hit, but they're also just the first ones hit - other sectors will follow even if not quite as severely. Production will survive for some time, but ultimately it won't escape the economic downturn and the reduction in orders that will induce over the next half a year, and will be laying off staff just the same. And with the drawing down of the production sector comes the turn of the extraction sector. Coal, metals, raw materials of all kinds - demand will plummet and they'll also fire personnel. We've seen a taste of that with the oil industry; but the rest of them are merely waiting their inevitable turn.

    It's hard to know when the reckoning will be during this year. But it's most likely coming, the march of events has taken on a life of its own and is beyond statesmen's or central banks' capacity to bring under control. A world government might have been able to handle that, but we don't have one and instead all countries economic polices are going to follow their own interests exclusively at the expense of the wider situation.
    And that reckoning is the bursting of the US financial bubble and the dollar's dominance. When this happens every country's economy, China's included, will face yet another massive hit as world trade, finance, stocks, investments are all upturned.

    And the scenario I have described is pretty much how it would happen, even if the coronavirus went away tommorow and everyone exited lockdown the day after that. If it continues to gain ground and overload medical systems, forcing countries to extend lockdowns, the world will end even worse.

    Chinese don't give a damn about a stupid virus. There are virus every day for as long as humanity has been around. Who the fuck cares? Chinese just launched second Type 075 light aircraft carrier, seventh Type 055 heavy destroyer. No one builds anything now except Chinese. No one will build anything for years to come. Only Chinese will build ship after ship after ship, a new ship every few months. This is China. I'm Chinese. YOU do not understand CHINA. There's a reason it's called the Middle Kingdom.
    ultimatewarrior
    ultimatewarrior

    Posts : 966
    Points : 974
    Join date : 2016-09-19
    Location : Waterloo, Ontario, Canada

    Talking bollocks thread #2 - Page 38 Empty Re: Talking bollocks thread #2

    Post  ultimatewarrior on Fri May 01, 2020 3:32 pm

    SeigSoloyvov wrote:Type 075's are LHD's, they will not carry planes so you can hardly call them light carriers. About 30 Choppers and unless you are hunting for submarines, Helios in the blue water are useless.

    Type 075 carries VTOL drones like these https://www.flightglobal.com/civil-uavs/textron-demonstrates-vtol-aerosonde-as-it-snags-us-army-shadow-contract/120471.article

    Carrying 30 planes like these makes it a light carrier or even a medium carrier.
    SeigSoloyvov
    SeigSoloyvov

    Posts : 1731
    Points : 1721
    Join date : 2016-04-08

    Talking bollocks thread #2 - Page 38 Empty Re: Talking bollocks thread #2

    Post  SeigSoloyvov on Fri May 01, 2020 5:50 pm

    ultimatewarrior wrote:
    SeigSoloyvov wrote:Type 075's are LHD's, they will not carry planes so you can hardly call them light carriers. About 30 Choppers and unless you are hunting for submarines, Helios in the blue water are useless.

    Type 075 carries VTOL drones like these https://www.flightglobal.com/civil-uavs/textron-demonstrates-vtol-aerosonde-as-it-snags-us-army-shadow-contract/120471.article

    Carrying 30 planes like these makes it a light carrier or even a medium carrier.

    The PLAN doesn't have any VTOLS nor does to have any VTOL Drones. Nor does it have a large fighter like drone or VTOL drones of the same type.

    You are spreading misinformation don't do that.

    Perhaps in the future, China will develop some but that time isn't now.

    ultimatewarrior
    ultimatewarrior

    Posts : 966
    Points : 974
    Join date : 2016-09-19
    Location : Waterloo, Ontario, Canada

    Talking bollocks thread #2 - Page 38 Empty Re: Talking bollocks thread #2

    Post  ultimatewarrior on Fri May 01, 2020 5:52 pm

    SeigSoloyvov wrote:
    ultimatewarrior wrote:
    SeigSoloyvov wrote:Type 075's are LHD's, they will not carry planes so you can hardly call them light carriers. About 30 Choppers and unless you are hunting for submarines, Helios in the blue water are useless.

    Type 075 carries VTOL drones like these https://www.flightglobal.com/civil-uavs/textron-demonstrates-vtol-aerosonde-as-it-snags-us-army-shadow-contract/120471.article

    Carrying 30 planes like these makes it a light carrier or even a medium carrier.

    The PLAN doesn't have any VTOLS nor does to have any VTOL Drones. Nor does it have a large fighter like drone or VTOL drones of the same type.

    You are spreading misinformation don't do that.

    Perhaps in the future, China will develop some but that time isn't now.


    China is the world leader in drones. It's pretty easy to make VTOL drones. They require less service on the decks due to no jet heat burning the decks. Also, future war is all about counter terror. There is no more direct war between super powers. Drones are best suited for counter terror.
    ultimatewarrior
    ultimatewarrior

    Posts : 966
    Points : 974
    Join date : 2016-09-19
    Location : Waterloo, Ontario, Canada

    Talking bollocks thread #2 - Page 38 Empty Re: Talking bollocks thread #2

    Post  ultimatewarrior on Sat May 02, 2020 12:15 am

    owais.usmani wrote:https://flotprom.ru/2020/%D0%92%D0%BC%D1%8435/

    Quarantine measures caused by the spread of coronavirus infection forced the Russian Navy to postpone the laying of four ships and two submarines from the end of April for an indefinite period. About this Mil.Press FlotProm told a high-ranking source in the industry.

    According to him, another possible bookmark term, May 9, is being worked out. The opening ceremony for shipbuilders, military sailors, guests of honor and journalists depends on the situation with the coronavirus. “Technically, both the fleet and the shipyards are ready for laying, however, most likely, it will be postponed for a more epidemiological time,” the source said.
    On April 28, they planned to lay down six new units for the fleet at once: two frigates of project 22350 at the Severnaya Verf shipyard in St. Petersburg, two multipurpose nuclear submarines of project 855M at Sevmash in Severodvinsk, and two universal landing ships at the Zaliv plant in Crimea.

    The official representative of the Russian Navy, Captain I Rank Igor Dygalo, found it difficult to answer the question of Mil.Press FlotProm about the timing of the laying of ships and submarines.

    At the Severnaya Verf shipyard, the publication was informed that it could not comment on this information.

    Not gonna happen. Russia is shut down. Russia is not like China. Zuk zuk zuk. Another carrier. China to launch third heavy aircraft carrier in October.
    GarryB
    GarryB

    Posts : 24459
    Points : 25001
    Join date : 2010-03-30
    Location : New Zealand

    Talking bollocks thread #2 - Page 38 Empty Re: Talking bollocks thread #2

    Post  GarryB on Sat May 02, 2020 4:39 am

    I doubt they will recklessly threaten the lives of their workers to keep to your time table...

    If you have any evidence that Chinese ship building has not been effected by this Pandemic would be interested in reading about how they achieved a lockdown and work as normal at the same time... that would be quite a trick... but I don't want to read that here as it is off topic here.

    If you find it put it on a Chinese thread.
    SeigSoloyvov
    SeigSoloyvov

    Posts : 1731
    Points : 1721
    Join date : 2016-04-08

    Talking bollocks thread #2 - Page 38 Empty Re: Talking bollocks thread #2

    Post  SeigSoloyvov on Sat May 02, 2020 8:11 am

    ultimatewarrior wrote:
    SeigSoloyvov wrote:
    ultimatewarrior wrote:
    SeigSoloyvov wrote:Type 075's are LHD's, they will not carry planes so you can hardly call them light carriers. About 30 Choppers and unless you are hunting for submarines, Helios in the blue water are useless.

    Type 075 carries VTOL drones like these https://www.flightglobal.com/civil-uavs/textron-demonstrates-vtol-aerosonde-as-it-snags-us-army-shadow-contract/120471.article

    Carrying 30 planes like these makes it a light carrier or even a medium carrier.

    The PLAN doesn't have any VTOLS nor does to have any VTOL Drones. Nor does it have a large fighter like drone or VTOL drones of the same type.

    You are spreading misinformation don't do that.

    Perhaps in the future, China will develop some but that time isn't now.


    China is the world leader in drones. It's pretty easy to make VTOL drones. They require less service on the decks due to no jet heat burning the decks. Also, future war is all about counter terror. There is no more direct war between super powers. Drones are best suited for counter terror.

    No the US makes the best drones currently. China isn't even in the top five.
    SeigSoloyvov
    SeigSoloyvov

    Posts : 1731
    Points : 1721
    Join date : 2016-04-08

    Talking bollocks thread #2 - Page 38 Empty Re: Talking bollocks thread #2

    Post  SeigSoloyvov on Sat May 02, 2020 8:17 am

    China has launched one homemade carrier the Shandong, the first carrier was bought from Ukraine mostly complete so you can't say they made it, sure they finished it.

    China is building two more CV but those aren't slated to be done until 2023 and mid 20's and then they need to be outfitted and go through the steps for commission.

    Example Shandong was launched in 2017 but only commissioned in 2019, so it will be 2025 at least before china commissions another carrier.

    You love posting BS information, don't you.
    ultimatewarrior
    ultimatewarrior

    Posts : 966
    Points : 974
    Join date : 2016-09-19
    Location : Waterloo, Ontario, Canada

    Talking bollocks thread #2 - Page 38 Empty Re: Talking bollocks thread #2

    Post  ultimatewarrior on Sat May 02, 2020 4:49 pm

    SeigSoloyvov wrote:
    ultimatewarrior wrote:
    SeigSoloyvov wrote:
    ultimatewarrior wrote:
    SeigSoloyvov wrote:Type 075's are LHD's, they will not carry planes so you can hardly call them light carriers. About 30 Choppers and unless you are hunting for submarines, Helios in the blue water are useless.

    Type 075 carries VTOL drones like these https://www.flightglobal.com/civil-uavs/textron-demonstrates-vtol-aerosonde-as-it-snags-us-army-shadow-contract/120471.article

    Carrying 30 planes like these makes it a light carrier or even a medium carrier.

    The PLAN doesn't have any VTOLS nor does to have any VTOL Drones. Nor does it have a large fighter like drone or VTOL drones of the same type.

    You are spreading misinformation don't do that.

    Perhaps in the future, China will develop some but that time isn't now.


    China is the world leader in drones. It's pretty easy to make VTOL drones. They require less service on the decks due to no jet heat burning the decks. Also, future war is all about counter terror. There is no more direct war between super powers. Drones are best suited for counter terror.

    No the US makes the best drones currently. China isn't even in the top five.

    China makes more drones than any other country. Hell, more than 95 percent of the drones in the world are made in China. China has VTOL drones like these

    Talking bollocks thread #2 - Page 38 49825804598_dba1f889a9_k

    Talking bollocks thread #2 - Page 38 49826337506_df8a921f99_k

    Not only that, Chinese drones are controlled by head movement. I don't see any other country has that.


    ultimatewarrior
    ultimatewarrior

    Posts : 966
    Points : 974
    Join date : 2016-09-19
    Location : Waterloo, Ontario, Canada

    Talking bollocks thread #2 - Page 38 Empty Re: Talking bollocks thread #2

    Post  ultimatewarrior on Sat May 02, 2020 4:51 pm

    SeigSoloyvov wrote:China has launched one homemade carrier the Shandong, the first carrier was bought from Ukraine mostly complete so you can't say they made it, sure they finished it.

    China is building two more CV but those aren't slated to be done until 2023 and mid 20's and then they need to be outfitted and go through the steps for commission.

    Example Shandong was launched in 2017 but only commissioned in 2019, so it will be 2025 at least before china commissions another carrier.

    You love posting BS information, don't you.

    Meantime the US is reducing its heavy carriers from 11 to 9. By the mid 2020s the US will only have twice as many carriers as China has.
    Tsavo Lion
    Tsavo Lion

    Posts : 3909
    Points : 3905
    Join date : 2016-08-15
    Location : AZ, USA

    Talking bollocks thread #2 - Page 38 Empty Re: Talking bollocks thread #2

    Post  Tsavo Lion on Sat May 02, 2020 5:56 pm

    The US Congress may not allow this reduction, so it's not a done deal.
    Even if 2 CVNs r decommissioned, they could be recommissioned later if need be. 1-2 more could also be forward deployed in Hawaii, Guam or Australia, increasing their utility as each is worth 2-3 CVNs based in the US.
    PapaDragon
    PapaDragon

    Posts : 9000
    Points : 9082
    Join date : 2015-04-26
    Location : Fort Evil, Serbia

    Talking bollocks thread #2 - Page 38 Empty Re: Talking bollocks thread #2

    Post  PapaDragon on Sat May 02, 2020 6:28 pm


    Can mods delete off-topic trash?

    None of this has anything to do with Russian LHDs


    ultimatewarrior
    ultimatewarrior

    Posts : 966
    Points : 974
    Join date : 2016-09-19
    Location : Waterloo, Ontario, Canada

    Talking bollocks thread #2 - Page 38 Empty temporary talking bollocks thread2

    Post  ultimatewarrior on Sat May 02, 2020 7:19 pm

    Tsavo Lion wrote:The US Congress may not allow this reduction, so it's not a done deal.
    Even if 2 CVNs r decommissioned, they could be recommissioned later if need be. 1-2 more could also be forward deployed in Hawaii, Guam  or Australia, increasing their utility as each is worth 2-3 CVNs based in the US.

    They have no choice. The US economy is weakening and lack of funds will shuttle some ships. Especially when Democrats inevitably take back the White House.
    Tsavo Lion
    Tsavo Lion

    Posts : 3909
    Points : 3905
    Join date : 2016-08-15
    Location : AZ, USA

    Talking bollocks thread #2 - Page 38 Empty Re: Talking bollocks thread #2

    Post  Tsavo Lion on Sat May 02, 2020 9:36 pm

    True, but China will be prevented from getting any foothold in Greenland & the US will have unrestricted access to resources & use of the island to monitor the Arctic.
    They may even put BMD sites there like in Alaska.
    miketheterrible
    miketheterrible

    Posts : 4411
    Points : 4389
    Join date : 2016-11-06

    Talking bollocks thread #2 - Page 38 Empty Re: Talking bollocks thread #2

    Post  miketheterrible on Sun May 03, 2020 12:06 am

    You mean ABM? Cause they already do with thaad. Regardless if it's shit.
    GarryB
    GarryB

    Posts : 24459
    Points : 25001
    Join date : 2010-03-30
    Location : New Zealand

    Talking bollocks thread #2 - Page 38 Empty Re: Talking bollocks thread #2

    Post  GarryB on Sun May 03, 2020 6:43 am

    After a few years of having lots of Americans there I am sure Chinese investment in Greenland will seem rather more attractive... I mean the Chinese are not angels and they don't do it for charity, but they wont strip mine the place like the Americans would... they will build schools and hospitals and nice roads and ports...
    jhelb
    jhelb

    Posts : 866
    Points : 975
    Join date : 2015-04-04
    Location : Previously: Belarus Currently: A Small Island No One Cares About

    Talking bollocks thread #2 - Page 38 Empty Re: Talking bollocks thread #2

    Post  jhelb on Sun May 03, 2020 8:15 pm

    GarryB wrote:they will build schools and hospitals and nice roads and ports...

    You sound like a Chinese troll.

    China encourages dependency using opaque contracts, predatory loan practices, and corrupt deals that mire nations in debt and undercut their sovereignty, denying them their long-term, self-sustaining growth. China offers cheap infrastructure loans, with the sting of default coming if smaller economies can’t generate enough free cash to pay their interest down.

    Kenya, Tajikistan, Sri Lanka, Tanzania and several African, Asian countries have had their strategic assets, such as their resources, mineral deposits, port access rights, and the like, targeted by Chinese creditors as collateral in many of these predatory deals.
    kvs
    kvs

    Posts : 6196
    Points : 6331
    Join date : 2014-09-11
    Location : Canuckistan

    Talking bollocks thread #2 - Page 38 Empty Re: Talking bollocks thread #2

    Post  kvs on Sun May 03, 2020 8:36 pm

    jhelb wrote:
    GarryB wrote:they will build schools and hospitals and nice roads and ports...

    You sound like a Chinese troll.

    China encourages dependency using opaque contracts, predatory loan practices, and corrupt deals that mire nations in debt and undercut their sovereignty, denying them their long-term, self-sustaining growth. China offers cheap infrastructure loans, with the sting of default coming if smaller economies can’t generate enough free cash to pay their interest down.

    Kenya, Tajikistan, Sri Lanka, Tanzania and several African, Asian countries have had their strategic assets, such as their resources, mineral deposits, port access rights, and the like, targeted by Chinese creditors as collateral in many of these predatory deals.

    I would take Chinese "corruption" over Anglo-European imperialist rape any day. It is self-evident to anyone who does not have
    an agenda that Chinese make much more fair arrangements in Africa than western hypocrites. That Chinese actually want profits
    from their ventures is not a crime.

    Tsavo Lion
    Tsavo Lion

    Posts : 3909
    Points : 3905
    Join date : 2016-08-15
    Location : AZ, USA

    Talking bollocks thread #2 - Page 38 Empty Re: Talking bollocks thread #2

    Post  Tsavo Lion on Sun May 03, 2020 9:51 pm

    they will build schools and hospitals and nice roads and ports...
    by the same token, the Brits, French & Japanese also built them in India, Vietnam & Korea; yet, all those colonizers were forced to leave.
    To be fought/taken over is the lot of all resource rich &/ strategically placed islands- Malta, Crete, Cyprus, Sicily, Sakhalin, Kuriles, Japan, Taiwan, the Philippines, Hawaii, Diego Garcia, Puerto Rico, Guam, Iceland & the Falklands r prime examples.
    I just hope that the Greenlanders won't be shortchanged by the Americans like native Guamise & Hawaiians were.
    kvs
    kvs

    Posts : 6196
    Points : 6331
    Join date : 2014-09-11
    Location : Canuckistan

    Talking bollocks thread #2 - Page 38 Empty Re: Talking bollocks thread #2

    Post  kvs on Sun May 03, 2020 9:59 pm

    Tsavo Lion wrote:
    they will build schools and hospitals and nice roads and ports...
    by the same token, the Brits, French & Japanese also built them in India, Vietnam & Korea; yet, all those colonizers were forced to leave.
    To be fought/taken over is the lot of all resource rich &/ strategically placed islands- Malta, Crete, Cyprus, Sicily, Sakhalin, Kuriles, Japan, Taiwan, the Philippines, Hawaii, Diego Garcia, Puerto Rico, Guam, Iceland & the Falklands r prime examples.
    I just hope that the Greenlanders won't be shortchanged by the Americans like native Guamise & Hawaiians were.

    Keep the faith, evidence-free belief is all you have.
    Tsavo Lion
    Tsavo Lion

    Posts : 3909
    Points : 3905
    Join date : 2016-08-15
    Location : AZ, USA

    Talking bollocks thread #2 - Page 38 Empty Re: Talking bollocks thread #2

    Post  Tsavo Lion on Sun May 03, 2020 10:06 pm

    "Hope" isn't "faith", & I don't need u telling me what I have.
    DON'T BOTHER TO REPLY.
    Big_Gazza
    Big_Gazza

    Posts : 1916
    Points : 1918
    Join date : 2014-08-25
    Location : Melbourne, Australia

    Talking bollocks thread #2 - Page 38 Empty Re: Talking bollocks thread #2

    Post  Big_Gazza on Mon May 04, 2020 6:22 am

    jhelb wrote:China encourages dependency using opaque contracts, predatory loan practices, and corrupt deals that mire nations in debt and undercut their sovereignty, denying them their long-term, self-sustaining growth. China offers cheap infrastructure loans, with the sting of default coming if smaller economies can’t generate enough free cash to pay their interest down.

    Kenya, Tajikistan, Sri Lanka, Tanzania and several African, Asian countries have had their strategic assets, such as their resources, mineral deposits, port access rights, and the like, targeted by Chinese creditors as collateral in many of these predatory deals.

    BULLSHIT.   angry

    You are talking out of your arse buddy, simply repeating the LIES told by Western media and financial industry lobbyists, all of them nothing but sock puppets handsomely compensated by the banking cartels who reward their monkeys well.

    The mandarins of the Western financial empire believe the world belongs to them, and them alone, and they are angry that the Chinese dare to undercut their dirty game of global usury and suppression of poor and developing nations.  The Chinese are making inroads over the likes of the cartels constituent private banks and the globalist heavyweights of the IMF and World Bank, and they are doing this because the leadership of the poor and developing nations recognise that the ChiComs are treating them fairly.

    You think it unreasonable for nations to offer up assets as collateral?  Heck, that just straightforward loan security, without which NO-ONE will give you a loan (no-one gives money without some form of  securitisation).  If the West agrees to give a loan, they add a raft of non-financial strings attached (which China never does).  Privatization of public assets, relaxation of capital movement restrictions/fees, reduction of taxes, enshrinement of globalist principles in law and general de-regulation, all designed to allow the penetration of elite foreign private money to take over the borrowers economy.  The Chinese don't do that, and in contrast, they actually provide debt relief when agreements go south and the basis of the original undertaking are shown to be unrealistic.  The Chinese take a degree of responsibility for their investment decisions, its part of their Confucianism principles - if initial assumptions are shown to be in error, then as part of the error they are prepared to take their lumps and take a haircut.  Western lenders just don't give a fuck - debt is held to be sacrosanct, and if a lender has allowed a customer to borrow too much then the borrower is left holding the bag by himself and has to manage the consequences.  The bankers just smirk like greedy cunts and stick it to the little guy. No empathy. No sympathy. they are simply pleased that they have hooked another debt slave.

    You need to get with the real world pal. The planet NEEDS the Chinese to hold our despicable banker cartels to account and to provide an alternative model that poor and developing nations can shop around with to get a better deal.  Fuck the western financial cheats and scoundrels. Fuck them to Hell and back, and when they are dead I will gleefully piss on their rotting corpses.

    Sponsored content

    Talking bollocks thread #2 - Page 38 Empty Re: Talking bollocks thread #2

    Post  Sponsored content


      Current date/time is Sun May 31, 2020 10:53 pm