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    Talking bollocks thread #2

    SeigSoloyvov
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    Post  SeigSoloyvov on Sat May 02, 2020 6:11 am

    ultimatewarrior wrote:
    SeigSoloyvov wrote:
    ultimatewarrior wrote:
    SeigSoloyvov wrote:Type 075's are LHD's, they will not carry planes so you can hardly call them light carriers. About 30 Choppers and unless you are hunting for submarines, Helios in the blue water are useless.

    Type 075 carries VTOL drones like these https://www.flightglobal.com/civil-uavs/textron-demonstrates-vtol-aerosonde-as-it-snags-us-army-shadow-contract/120471.article

    Carrying 30 planes like these makes it a light carrier or even a medium carrier.

    The PLAN doesn't have any VTOLS nor does to have any VTOL Drones. Nor does it have a large fighter like drone or VTOL drones of the same type.

    You are spreading misinformation don't do that.

    Perhaps in the future, China will develop some but that time isn't now.


    China is the world leader in drones. It's pretty easy to make VTOL drones. They require less service on the decks due to no jet heat burning the decks. Also, future war is all about counter terror. There is no more direct war between super powers. Drones are best suited for counter terror.

    No the US makes the best drones currently. China isn't even in the top five.
    SeigSoloyvov
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    Post  SeigSoloyvov on Sat May 02, 2020 6:17 am

    China has launched one homemade carrier the Shandong, the first carrier was bought from Ukraine mostly complete so you can't say they made it, sure they finished it.

    China is building two more CV but those aren't slated to be done until 2023 and mid 20's and then they need to be outfitted and go through the steps for commission.

    Example Shandong was launched in 2017 but only commissioned in 2019, so it will be 2025 at least before china commissions another carrier.

    You love posting BS information, don't you.
    ultimatewarrior
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    Post  ultimatewarrior on Sat May 02, 2020 2:49 pm

    SeigSoloyvov wrote:
    ultimatewarrior wrote:
    SeigSoloyvov wrote:
    ultimatewarrior wrote:
    SeigSoloyvov wrote:Type 075's are LHD's, they will not carry planes so you can hardly call them light carriers. About 30 Choppers and unless you are hunting for submarines, Helios in the blue water are useless.

    Type 075 carries VTOL drones like these https://www.flightglobal.com/civil-uavs/textron-demonstrates-vtol-aerosonde-as-it-snags-us-army-shadow-contract/120471.article

    Carrying 30 planes like these makes it a light carrier or even a medium carrier.

    The PLAN doesn't have any VTOLS nor does to have any VTOL Drones. Nor does it have a large fighter like drone or VTOL drones of the same type.

    You are spreading misinformation don't do that.

    Perhaps in the future, China will develop some but that time isn't now.


    China is the world leader in drones. It's pretty easy to make VTOL drones. They require less service on the decks due to no jet heat burning the decks. Also, future war is all about counter terror. There is no more direct war between super powers. Drones are best suited for counter terror.

    No the US makes the best drones currently. China isn't even in the top five.

    China makes more drones than any other country. Hell, more than 95 percent of the drones in the world are made in China. China has VTOL drones like these

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    Not only that, Chinese drones are controlled by head movement. I don't see any other country has that.


    ultimatewarrior
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    Post  ultimatewarrior on Sat May 02, 2020 2:51 pm

    SeigSoloyvov wrote:China has launched one homemade carrier the Shandong, the first carrier was bought from Ukraine mostly complete so you can't say they made it, sure they finished it.

    China is building two more CV but those aren't slated to be done until 2023 and mid 20's and then they need to be outfitted and go through the steps for commission.

    Example Shandong was launched in 2017 but only commissioned in 2019, so it will be 2025 at least before china commissions another carrier.

    You love posting BS information, don't you.

    Meantime the US is reducing its heavy carriers from 11 to 9. By the mid 2020s the US will only have twice as many carriers as China has.
    Tsavo Lion
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    Post  Tsavo Lion on Sat May 02, 2020 3:56 pm

    The US Congress may not allow this reduction, so it's not a done deal.
    Even if 2 CVNs r decommissioned, they could be recommissioned later if need be. 1-2 more could also be forward deployed in Hawaii, Guam or Australia, increasing their utility as each is worth 2-3 CVNs based in the US.
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    Post  PapaDragon on Sat May 02, 2020 4:28 pm


    Can mods delete off-topic trash?

    None of this has anything to do with Russian LHDs


    ultimatewarrior
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    Post  ultimatewarrior on Sat May 02, 2020 5:19 pm

    Tsavo Lion wrote:The US Congress may not allow this reduction, so it's not a done deal.
    Even if 2 CVNs r decommissioned, they could be recommissioned later if need be. 1-2 more could also be forward deployed in Hawaii, Guam  or Australia, increasing their utility as each is worth 2-3 CVNs based in the US.

    They have no choice. The US economy is weakening and lack of funds will shuttle some ships. Especially when Democrats inevitably take back the White House.
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    Post  Tsavo Lion on Sat May 02, 2020 7:36 pm

    True, but China will be prevented from getting any foothold in Greenland & the US will have unrestricted access to resources & use of the island to monitor the Arctic.
    They may even put BMD sites there like in Alaska.
    miketheterrible
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    Post  miketheterrible on Sat May 02, 2020 10:06 pm

    You mean ABM? Cause they already do with thaad. Regardless if it's shit.
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    Post  GarryB on Sun May 03, 2020 4:43 am

    After a few years of having lots of Americans there I am sure Chinese investment in Greenland will seem rather more attractive... I mean the Chinese are not angels and they don't do it for charity, but they wont strip mine the place like the Americans would... they will build schools and hospitals and nice roads and ports...
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    Post  jhelb on Sun May 03, 2020 6:15 pm

    GarryB wrote:they will build schools and hospitals and nice roads and ports...

    You sound like a Chinese troll.

    China encourages dependency using opaque contracts, predatory loan practices, and corrupt deals that mire nations in debt and undercut their sovereignty, denying them their long-term, self-sustaining growth. China offers cheap infrastructure loans, with the sting of default coming if smaller economies can’t generate enough free cash to pay their interest down.

    Kenya, Tajikistan, Sri Lanka, Tanzania and several African, Asian countries have had their strategic assets, such as their resources, mineral deposits, port access rights, and the like, targeted by Chinese creditors as collateral in many of these predatory deals.
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    Post  kvs on Sun May 03, 2020 6:36 pm

    jhelb wrote:
    GarryB wrote:they will build schools and hospitals and nice roads and ports...

    You sound like a Chinese troll.

    China encourages dependency using opaque contracts, predatory loan practices, and corrupt deals that mire nations in debt and undercut their sovereignty, denying them their long-term, self-sustaining growth. China offers cheap infrastructure loans, with the sting of default coming if smaller economies can’t generate enough free cash to pay their interest down.

    Kenya, Tajikistan, Sri Lanka, Tanzania and several African, Asian countries have had their strategic assets, such as their resources, mineral deposits, port access rights, and the like, targeted by Chinese creditors as collateral in many of these predatory deals.

    I would take Chinese "corruption" over Anglo-European imperialist rape any day. It is self-evident to anyone who does not have
    an agenda that Chinese make much more fair arrangements in Africa than western hypocrites. That Chinese actually want profits
    from their ventures is not a crime.

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    Post  Tsavo Lion on Sun May 03, 2020 7:51 pm

    they will build schools and hospitals and nice roads and ports...
    by the same token, the Brits, French & Japanese also built them in India, Vietnam & Korea; yet, all those colonizers were forced to leave.
    To be fought/taken over is the lot of all resource rich &/ strategically placed islands- Malta, Crete, Cyprus, Sicily, Sakhalin, Kuriles, Japan, Taiwan, the Philippines, Hawaii, Diego Garcia, Puerto Rico, Guam, Iceland & the Falklands r prime examples.
    I just hope that the Greenlanders won't be shortchanged by the Americans like native Guamise & Hawaiians were.
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    Post  kvs on Sun May 03, 2020 7:59 pm

    Tsavo Lion wrote:
    they will build schools and hospitals and nice roads and ports...
    by the same token, the Brits, French & Japanese also built them in India, Vietnam & Korea; yet, all those colonizers were forced to leave.
    To be fought/taken over is the lot of all resource rich &/ strategically placed islands- Malta, Crete, Cyprus, Sicily, Sakhalin, Kuriles, Japan, Taiwan, the Philippines, Hawaii, Diego Garcia, Puerto Rico, Guam, Iceland & the Falklands r prime examples.
    I just hope that the Greenlanders won't be shortchanged by the Americans like native Guamise & Hawaiians were.

    Keep the faith, evidence-free belief is all you have.
    Tsavo Lion
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    Post  Tsavo Lion on Sun May 03, 2020 8:06 pm

    "Hope" isn't "faith", & I don't need u telling me what I have.
    DON'T BOTHER TO REPLY.
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    Post  Big_Gazza on Mon May 04, 2020 4:22 am

    jhelb wrote:China encourages dependency using opaque contracts, predatory loan practices, and corrupt deals that mire nations in debt and undercut their sovereignty, denying them their long-term, self-sustaining growth. China offers cheap infrastructure loans, with the sting of default coming if smaller economies can’t generate enough free cash to pay their interest down.

    Kenya, Tajikistan, Sri Lanka, Tanzania and several African, Asian countries have had their strategic assets, such as their resources, mineral deposits, port access rights, and the like, targeted by Chinese creditors as collateral in many of these predatory deals.

    BULLSHIT.   angry

    You are talking out of your arse buddy, simply repeating the LIES told by Western media and financial industry lobbyists, all of them nothing but sock puppets handsomely compensated by the banking cartels who reward their monkeys well.

    The mandarins of the Western financial empire believe the world belongs to them, and them alone, and they are angry that the Chinese dare to undercut their dirty game of global usury and suppression of poor and developing nations.  The Chinese are making inroads over the likes of the cartels constituent private banks and the globalist heavyweights of the IMF and World Bank, and they are doing this because the leadership of the poor and developing nations recognise that the ChiComs are treating them fairly.

    You think it unreasonable for nations to offer up assets as collateral?  Heck, that just straightforward loan security, without which NO-ONE will give you a loan (no-one gives money without some form of  securitisation).  If the West agrees to give a loan, they add a raft of non-financial strings attached (which China never does).  Privatization of public assets, relaxation of capital movement restrictions/fees, reduction of taxes, enshrinement of globalist principles in law and general de-regulation, all designed to allow the penetration of elite foreign private money to take over the borrowers economy.  The Chinese don't do that, and in contrast, they actually provide debt relief when agreements go south and the basis of the original undertaking are shown to be unrealistic.  The Chinese take a degree of responsibility for their investment decisions, its part of their Confucianism principles - if initial assumptions are shown to be in error, then as part of the error they are prepared to take their lumps and take a haircut.  Western lenders just don't give a fuck - debt is held to be sacrosanct, and if a lender has allowed a customer to borrow too much then the borrower is left holding the bag by himself and has to manage the consequences.  The bankers just smirk like greedy cunts and stick it to the little guy. No empathy. No sympathy. they are simply pleased that they have hooked another debt slave.

    You need to get with the real world pal. The planet NEEDS the Chinese to hold our despicable banker cartels to account and to provide an alternative model that poor and developing nations can shop around with to get a better deal.  Fuck the western financial cheats and scoundrels. Fuck them to Hell and back, and when they are dead I will gleefully piss on their rotting corpses.
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    Post  Tsavo Lion on Mon May 04, 2020 4:48 am

    In ur opinion, would Australia be better off as a Chinese province?
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    Post  GarryB on Mon May 04, 2020 8:20 am

    You sound like a Chinese troll.

    It might be something a chinese person might say, but I am saying it because it is also what people in these third world countries are saying, and even people from the first world.

    Watch Top Gear when they go to Africa for their various road trips and look at the excellent roads they travel on... they mention they are built by the Chinese and not America or Britain or France... or any western country.

    The west is a closed box... we get told that this or that place is like this but most of the time it is BS.... if Venezuela was the shit hole the western media claimed it was you would think the people of Venezuela would jump at the chance America offered to impose a new leader that would steal everything from them and sell out to the west. It seems the Venezuelan people know better than we do and they protected themselves from the evil of the US... in Africa it is the same regarding the west vs China and Russia.

    Do you think it is an accident that your description of how China will screw Africa for its resources so closely mirrors western interactions with Africa and China for the last 400 years? Do you not think it is actually a case of the west blaming china for stuff the west has been doing to try to make them look like the bad guys?

    Because you can bet your ass when Russia starts signing contracts in Africa they will say the exact same about Russia too because they are afraid of competition from countries that actually offer to deliver the stuff they have been promising for centuries but never delivered...

    Kenya, Tajikistan, Sri Lanka, Tanzania and several African, Asian countries have had their strategic assets, such as their resources, mineral deposits, port access rights, and the like, targeted by Chinese creditors as collateral in many of these predatory deals.

    The west has already done that, so they will be well prepared to look after themselves.

    Of course there are nasty two faced chinese criminals out to exploit anyone they can... just as there are Russians and French and English and American people who are the same. The difference is that the French and English and Americans and other white people have been doing this for a century... not only africa and asia and central and south america but also to China and Russia too... it is time to stop the cycle of raising yourself up while holding everyone else down like America and the west does on a daily basis.

    I would take Chinese "corruption" over Anglo-European imperialist rape any day. It is self-evident to anyone who does not have
    an agenda that Chinese make much more fair arrangements in Africa than western hypocrites. That Chinese actually want profits
    from their ventures is not a crime.

    X2... it is like America jumping up and down saying their MIGHT be spyware in Huawei hardware so don't anyone use it... we know for a fact that internationally used communications equipment is compromised by the US for the purposes of spying... so Huawei stuff actually sounds better than anything else at the moment.

    There might be back doors... the chinese government might be able to access all my communications... I am less afraid of that than handing over access to the US government which has a clear track record of abusing and misusing information its gets hold of... the US government is much more frightening than the Chinese government...

    by the same token, the Brits, French & Japanese also built them in India, Vietnam & Korea; yet, all those colonizers were forced to leave.

    But that is the difference... China is not there to take over, to command the local government do as they say... they are there to sell stuff and to buy stuff and building hospitals and schools means a stronger smarter local workforce if they get jobs with their companies locally.

    The Brits and French and Japs were there to rape and pillage resources... China is there to do business and make the place better so that business can be more productive.

    To be fought/taken over is the lot of all resource rich &/ strategically placed islands- Malta, Crete, Cyprus, Sicily, Sakhalin, Kuriles, Japan, Taiwan, the Philippines, Hawaii, Diego Garcia, Puerto Rico, Guam, Iceland & the Falklands r prime examples.

    China... as well as Russia are not in a position or the mindset to invade and conquer and steal land from other countries. They might support a freedom fighter group to kick out an oppressor, but they are not going to seize territory like Guam or Iceland... that is something America and Britain and France did.

    I just hope that the Greenlanders won't be shortchanged by the Americans like native Guamise & Hawaiians were.

    Is there any chance they will change and actually be nice? They care about Greenlanders like they care about ordinary Iranians under and oppressive Iranian regime... sanctions and let them all die...

    @Big Gazza... You need to calm down... and take some deep breaths... what you are saying is not wrong, but you need to express yourself better.

    In ur opinion, would Australia be better off as a Chinese province?

    That is the core of your error. China doesn't want to occupy and take over... they want to trade with the locals and when they try to get a local work force to run the farms they build and they find out most can't even read and write in their native language and most are sick and weak and that they can't deliver food from these farms to the local ports because the dirt roads are not passable 3 months of the year then they start to invest in schools and hospitals and build decent roads.

    They might have to train the locals to build roads... they might teach them to make good quality roads for themselves... the point is that they have not sent in troops and bombed the capital like the west does and then install a government that is subservient to them that they can then bleed money from and make sure no workers rights legislation goes through and that minimum wage is unknown by the locals.

    The west does that, and you know... suggesting China or Russia or any other non western non colonial country will be as heartless and despicable as the west has been over the last few centuries is shameful... but also shamelessly promoted by western media like CNN and the BBC so they can claim to be the good guys.

    Pathetic.
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    Post  jhelb on Mon May 04, 2020 9:35 am

    Big_Gazza wrote:You are talking out of your arse
    Did you inherit such grace or were you born with it?


    Big_Gazza wrote: repeating the LIES told by Western media and financial industry lobbyists, all of them nothing but sock puppets handsomely compensated by the banking cartels who reward their monkeys well.
    Quarter literates will obviously suggest that just like them, everyone is hooked to Western media, from where they get their daily dose of kool aid.

    African, Asian media is not Western. And they have time and again highlighted how China has copied the Western strategy of forcing 3rd world countries to go into debt so that their land can be forcefully taken over.
    miketheterrible
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    Post  miketheterrible on Mon May 04, 2020 10:28 am

    I always figure GarryB was a Chinese asset living in New Zealand. He will one day take it over in a coup.

    I'm onto you Garry. I will call your PM right now
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    Post  Big_Gazza on Mon May 04, 2020 12:21 pm

    GarryB wrote:
    @Big Gazza... You need to calm down... and take some deep breaths... what you are saying is not wrong, but you need to express yourself better.
    Yup, I probably do, but when I read nonsense like this I feel the red haze start to descend... The behavior of the Chinese and Western financial industries could not be more different, but some people just can't see the inherent bias in our (or other) media, choose to drink the koolaid, and indulge in the officially mandated 2 minutes of hate. People should be wiser than this, but rarely are, and that's DEEPLY disappointing.
    Big_Gazza
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    Post  Big_Gazza on Mon May 04, 2020 12:27 pm

    Tsavo Lion wrote:In ur opinion, would Australia be better off as a Chinese province?

    We'd be better off if we would simply trade fairly with the Chinese (who unlike most nations on the planet, have a sincere desire to buy the commodities we grow, or cut off a sheep, or dig out of a hole), and withhold our arrogant, smug, cultural self-superiority and cease badgering them with endless repetitions of Washington-approved lies and misrepresentations.

    The Chinese don't want to take us over - they simply want to be treated fairly and according to their merits without prejudice. In return, they are happy to support our economy and continue to be our major trading partner without strings attached or expecting regular displays of geopolitical obeisance as the US does.
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    Post  kvs on Mon May 04, 2020 3:18 pm

    Big_Gazza wrote:
    Tsavo Lion wrote:In ur opinion, would Australia be better off as a Chinese province?

    We'd be better off if we would simply trade fairly with the Chinese (who unlike most nations on the planet, have a sincere desire to buy the commodities we grow, or cut off a sheep, or dig out of a hole), and withhold our arrogant, smug, cultural self-superiority and cease badgering them with endless repetitions of Washington-approved lies and misrepresentations.

    The Chinese don't want to take us over - they simply want to be treated fairly and according to their merits without prejudice.  In return, they are happy to support our economy and continue to be our major trading partner without strings attached or expecting regular displays of geopolitical obeisance as the US does.

    You got trolled by Tsavo. The discussion is about Chinese business ventures around the world (e.g. Africa) and not Australia
    becoming a province of China. That is a total non sequitur and obvious bait. Russia has investments in Venezuela, but that
    does not make Venezuela a Russian province.
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    Post  Tsavo Lion on Mon May 04, 2020 4:32 pm

    I asked that question as he sounded like "nothing bad can come from Chinese economic activity". But even within China, some provinces suffer: in Tibet, Inner Mongolia & Sinkyang, even with all the new construction, etc., most of the workforce isn't native. The same in Chinese run businesses in Burma & Cambodia.
    Vietnam was under direct Chinese rule for~1K years; many things were adopted from the Chinese but still, "It is better to sniff the French Dung for a while than eat China's all our lives"- Ho Chi Minh allegedly said in 1946. He also said: "Vietnam has faced many conquerors over the centuries. The Mongols, the French, the Japanese, the Americans. They come and go. Unfortunately for us, the Chinese will always be there." NK was saved by China, but after the war all her advisors were sent home.
    The successful Chinese diaspora in Vietnam, Malaysia & Indonesia suffered from oppression &/ pogroms.
    There's no need to seize all of its territory to control any given country. Romania & Finland were to the USSR as Lesoto to S. Africa. The same for the Irish Republic vs. the UK. The US controlled the Panama Canal Zone & thus the whole country. The Australian PM was replaced by its Governor General- guess who controls him? Hint: its' not the QE2!
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1975_Australian_constitutional_crisis#Alleged_CIA_involvement

    The US is already controls the defence of Greenland but wants full economic & legal control as well.


    Last edited by Tsavo Lion on Mon May 04, 2020 6:46 pm; edited 1 time in total (Reason for editing : add text)
    GarryB
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    Post  GarryB on Tue May 05, 2020 6:17 am

    Did you inherit such grace or were you born with it?

    Quarter literates will obviously suggest that just like them, everyone is hooked to Western media, from where they get their daily dose of kool aid.

    You punish abuse and then you indulge in it yourself... much of a hypocrite?

    African, Asian media is not Western. And they have time and again highlighted how China has copied the Western strategy of forcing 3rd world countries to go into debt so that their land can be forcefully taken over.

    Media is either government controlled or controlled by the rich... the rich in Asia and Africa and indeed central and south america have become so because they play the game with the west... they benefit while their country suffers.

    If they are merely copying a western strategy then how can you justify claiming they are any worse than the west... surely if they are doing the same thing they are the same and as they have not been doing it as long with such poor results for their trade partners they should get less of the blame than the west rather than more.

    I always figure GarryB was a Chinese asset living in New Zealand. He will one day take it over in a coup.

    I'm onto you Garry. I will call your PM right now

    It is OK... when I say something nice about Putin and Russia I am a Russian agent and now that I refute the usual western propaganda against China I am a Chinese agent... that is fine... and I suspect this was said in jest... but you do realise such bullshit is part of the western strategy to keep the rest of the world fighting each other so they don't realise what censored the west are and unite against them.

    BTW I doubt Horse Face would be interested in something like that... you would have to kill 52 people with an ice pick before you got her attention... and then she would just ban all fire arms... because it makes us all safer...

    Yup, I probably do, but when I read nonsense like this I feel the red haze start to descend... The behavior of the Chinese and Western financial industries could not be more different, but some people just can't see the inherent bias in our (or other) media, choose to drink the koolaid, and indulge in the officially mandated 2 minutes of hate. People should be wiser than this, but rarely are, and that's DEEPLY disappointing.

    The funny thing is that you talk to them about something else and they seem rational and you mention the media and government can't be trusted and they will agree, but mention China or Russia or Iran or Iraq and they jump to the party line... they are not democracies... they support terrorism... they are not part of the solution... they are part of the problem... but I am an independent thinker and don't touch the kool aide... much.

    I understand... Smile

    Swearing and abusing other members will get you bans and I prefer to keep you and Mike around despite your tantrums... and you might not like it but I would prefer to keep Tsavo and Jhelb around too because it is important to hear a different opinion about things... you don't have to agree, and you don't have to change their view. Don't you think it is useful to have different voices from around the planet... just to hear a different perspective?

    Equally, you forget people can be pragmatic which is counter intuitive... if HATO had bombed my country 20 years ago I would not have forgiven them even now... the French murdered one man in New Zealand in the 1980s and I still don't forgive them... but some posters here will immediately support the US drive to throw Maduro out of power based on their usual regime change lies and bullshit... I rather suspect once they think Maduro is socialist then they think he must be bad for the country and is ready to believe any other bullshit about him they bring up... and they bring up all sorts of shit to prove that democracy means nothing when American interests go against the results. Despite Maduro being legally and legitimately voted into power the year before some members on this forum felt the Americans were right in imposing crippling sanctions on the country to remove him from power... like they should have any say at all in it.

    Maybe it is just me... the more they demonise Putin and Russia and China the more I realise they are on track and doing what is right for their countries. Anything the western media tells you is the opposite of what is true...  after all they tell us the Israelis are the victims and the Palestinians are the terrorists... but who is pushing who off land. Israel was created through terrorism, it is ironic those who resist are labelled terrorists... with terrorism the Israelis got a country... perhaps Palestinians want the same?

    We'd be better off if we would simply trade fairly with the Chinese (who unlike most nations on the planet, have a sincere desire to buy the commodities we grow, or cut off a sheep, or dig out of a hole), and withhold our arrogant, smug, cultural self-superiority and cease badgering them with endless repetitions of Washington-approved lies and misrepresentations.

    Imagine if the Chinese were as bad as the west... every political group that goes to the US visits black power and the KKK groups... every speech to the media while they are there talk about the human rights violations America commits... the kidnapping and torture... the human rights abuses in their secret prisons around the world... the terrible abuse and treatment of their native populations and Mexican neighbours... when they go to Australia their abuse of aboriginies and island nations nearby where they send immigrants to suffer in squalor for years on end... it will be funny when the Chinese and Russians realise they are being too nice and that the west does not respect them for it and that pretty soon a much harder line is needed for rich western countries...

    I asked that question as he sounded like "nothing bad can come from Chinese economic activity".

    I suspect his response was supposed to convey that the Chinese are not imperial conquerers like the west... or even Japanese and that while there might be some bad eggs on the whole they will be much better than western economic activity which has been horrendous and very damaging.

    The US is already controls the defence of Greenland but wants full economic & legal control as well.

    And has no rights to do any of those things.

    This is off topic... I will move some of this to another thread... most likely the western propaganda thread...

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