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    Talking bollocks thread #2

    GarryB
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    Post  GarryB on Sat Jan 19, 2019 8:58 pm

    What a strange reply...

    Some of the foreign influenced jihadists in Chechnia were sent to hell, but AFAIK none were sent to Siberia...
    Tsavo Lion
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    Post  Tsavo Lion on Sat Jan 19, 2019 9:21 pm

    I'm referring to what happened to them under Stalin.
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deportation_of_the_Chechens_and_Ingush

    Please stop the superficial & shallow understanding of my arguments.
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    Post  GarryB on Sun Jan 20, 2019 1:39 am

    Please stop the superficial & shallow understanding of my arguments.

    I am being superficial and shallow?

    You are suggesting that in the future the Ukraine would be split between Russia and Poland, and that any dissenters could be sent to a Siberian gulag where they can't cause any problems...

    ...so who is being weird... considering Stalin is dead and as far as I am aware Putin is not Stalin, and even if he was, pissed off foreign dissidents are the last thing Russia needs on its border with China... send those cocksuckers to the land of the free that promised them milk and honey.... give them green cards to the US.
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    Post  Tsavo Lion on Sun Jan 20, 2019 1:54 am

    Not to GULAG, but those potential troublemakers could be more useful East of the Urals, & the best agricultural lands in the FE r along the Chinese border. Give them jobs, land, a chance of peaceful life & they'll be content. After a few years, they'll appreciate how good they had it in Ukraine & regret being brainwashed by their nationalist ideology.
    Many refugees from Donbass were taken to Magadan & elsewhere to fill local acute labor shortages.
    Even many of the Russian oil engineers don't want to work in Siberia & they have to hire Filipinos & others from abroad.
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    Post  GarryB on Sun Jan 20, 2019 3:36 am

    Yeah... the best kept secret in the world... Siberia on the Chinese border is utopia... people would be flocking to get there if they only knew...

    Stalin did it as a form of punishment, but now they have free wifi...

    Better idea... Russia should offer to take all the wests worst offender prisoners.... people who would normally be executed for their crimes... but killing people is wrong... they just need hugs.... hugs for thugs... and build a huge prison right in the middle if Siberia.

    A tracking tag should be inserted somewhere where it can never be removed and put them in a prison... and mark off a perimeter for them... say 40 square kms where they are allowed to live.

    Anyone detected outside that perimeter for what ever reason can be shot on site.

    Sell contracts to chase down escapers to rich Americans who want to kill people legally... get a bounty hunters badge... hell you could be a real bastard about it and have different prisoner signals for jewish people, for arabs, for blacks and whites and asians etc etc so you could go get a contract to hunt down a minority of your choice and shoot them.

    Of course it would need serious management... otherwise you could get your mates to get your contract and instead of hunting you down and shooting you they could come and rescue you...

    Of course anyone who tries to run will likely be killed by the environment... especially those from tropical countries not used to the cold.

    It would be a great solution for Asian countries that are put under enormous western pressure when they arrest drug smugglers from a western country.

    It pisses me off when some Kiwi or Aussie gets caught in some asian country smuggling drugs and they seem to think our governments should get them off their prison time or death sentence... screw them.

    Anyway, this is off topic...
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    Post  Tsavo Lion on Sun Jan 20, 2019 1:45 pm

    Siberia on the Chinese border is utopia... people would be flocking to get there if they only knew...
    Not paradise & utopia, but since the 1600s, the ancestors of most non-natives & other Asians there were Cossacks, soldiers, convicts, exiles, railroaders, & sailors. The Jewish Autonomous Oblast was set up in 1928 & the settlers helped develop it. ..the area had been chosen for military and economic reasons. This area was often infiltrated by China, while Japan also wanted Russia to lose the provinces of the Soviet Far East. At the time, there were only about 30,000 inhabitants in the area, mostly descendants of Trans-Baikal Cossacks resettled there by tsarist authorities, Koreans, Kazakhs, and the Tungusic peoples. The Soviet government wanted to increase settlement in the remote Soviet Far East, especially along the vulnerable border with China. General Pavel Sudoplatov writes about the government's rationale behind picking the area in the Far East: ″The establishment of the Jewish Autonomous Oblast in Birobidzhan in 1928 was ordered by Stalin only as an effort to strengthen the Far Eastern border region with an outpost, not as a favour to the Jews. The area was constantly penetrated by Chinese and White Russian terrorist groups, and the idea was to shield the territory by establishing a settlement whose inhabitants would be hostile to White Russian émigrés, especially the Cossacks. The status of this region was defined shrewdly as an autonomous district, not an autonomous republic, which meant that no local legislature, high court, or government post of ministerial rank was permitted. It was an autonomous area, but a bare frontier, not a political center.″..
    The new territory was initially called the Birobidzhan Jewish National Raion.
    Birobidzhan had a harsh geography and climate: it was mountainous, covered with virgin forests of oak, pine and cedar, and also swamplands, and any new settlers would have to build their lives from scratch. To make colonization more enticing, the Soviet government allowed private land-ownership. This led to many non-Jews settling in the oblast to get a free farm.
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jewish_Autonomous_Oblast#Establishment_of_the_JAO
    The Jewish Autonomous Oblast is part of the Far Eastern Economic Region; it has well-developed industry and agriculture and a dense transportation network. Its status as a free economic zone increases the opportunities for economic development. The oblast's rich mineral and building and finishing material resources are in great demand on the Russian market. Nonferrous metallurgy, engineering, metalworking, and the building material, forest, woodworking, light, and food industries are the most highly developed industrial sectors.
    Agriculture is the Jewish Autonomous Oblast's main economic sector owing to fertile soils and a moist climate.
    The largest companies in the region include Kimkano - Sutarsky Mining and Processing Plant (with revenues of $116.56 million in 2017), Teploozersky Cement Plant ($29.14 million) and Brider Trading House ($24 million).

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jewish_Autonomous_Oblast#Economy

    Today, the Chinese operate large farms there.
    Big remote camps there r not economical- the net profit gained from what inmates can produce/extract won't cover the cost of feeding & guarding them. Instead of going West to earn $ & being treated as slaves in the EU, those Galicians & Volynians can go to sparsely populated East & earn a better living w/o leaving their Slavic Orthodox country/culture.
    I don't know about NZ, but Australia was also partly settled by convicts & others "at the end of the rope"! https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Convicts_in_Australia
    GarryB
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    Post  GarryB on Sun Jan 20, 2019 6:41 pm

    Initially New Zealand was governed by Australia...

    Regarding convicts going to Australia... it was a case of out of sight out of mind... most of the crimes were trivial, and while life was hard initially I bet their descendants are glad they were sent away from europe.

    There is a problem however... for the British authorities, they were sending people from civilised Britain to savage backward Australia as a punishment... and their treatment when they got to Australia was as prisoners... not settlers.

    There were plenty of settlers who went to Australia too, but their experiences were different because they were not in chains and were free to do as they pleased most of the time.

    The basic issue is that sending dissenters to the Russian far east is not an issue today and would actually be counter productive... I doubt pissed off Ukrainians sent to the Chinese border would lift a finger to save any Russian territory... they would more likely sell it off to the highest bidder in a heart beat.

    Putin wouldn't consider it... sounds like something Trump would do.
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    Post  Tsavo Lion on Sun Jan 20, 2019 6:57 pm

    Every year, there r still some British voluntarily going Down Under for good!
    Agribusiness in Central Russia needs many extra hands; there's a big labor shortage in general, not just in Siberia/FE, where it is more severe due to emigration from the region in the last 29 years.
    Kamchatka now welcomes many migrant laborers from C. Asia!
    Ukrainians there would be watched & not tasked defending the border, since China isn't interested in steering trouble that's not worth the intended result. They could be sent even farther to Sakhalin & Kuril Islands to shore them up.
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    Post  GarryB on Sat Jan 26, 2019 2:10 am

    Every year, there r still some British voluntarily going Down Under for good!

    Would love to see the faces of the ones that moved this year... temperatures in Oz have been up near the 50s... some places over 45 degrees for several days on end...

    Agribusiness in Central Russia needs many extra hands; there's a big labor shortage in general, not just in Siberia/FE, where it is more severe due to emigration from the region in the last 29 years.

    You don't solve that problem by sending people who need to be watched because the people watching aren't picking fruit and digging veges...

    They could be sent even farther to Sakhalin & Kuril Islands to shore them up.

    Send them to America or Canada... they will be happy and they will stay there and wont be a problem for Russia any more.

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    Post  Tsavo Lion on Sun Jan 27, 2019 1:54 pm

    You don't solve that problem by sending people who need to be watched because the people watching aren't picking fruit and digging veges...
    No additional security personnel is needed there: they'll be required to regularly check in with local police probation officers & be issued special IDs; passport/ID control will be done on all transport & by the traffic police roadblocks too, if those that try to leave those remote areas w/o a special permission will be arrested, fined & returned to their assigned areas, & if they try again, sent to local prison labor/army camps &/ across Russia, where there is no shortage of work.
    Yes, they can illegally cross on foot/boat into China, Japan or NK & will immediately stand out there; if they r not deported, good luck acclimating to totally new life while still remaining slaves to whomever hires them! Or they can try to hide in the taiga like the Old Believers did & scratch a living there among bears, lynxes, tigers, wolves & wolverines- UAVs, SAR helos, geologists, game wardens, & local hunters/trappers will find them eventually. A few decades ago, geologists in Altai spotted a potato field in the remote taiga from a helo; it was cultivated by a family that was cut off from civilization since 1936(!): https://www.thevintagenews.com/2016/10/31/a-russian-family-was-isolated-for-more-than-40-years-completely-unaware-of-ww2/

    The Slon will arrive later and could be something between An-124 and An-225...
    Just in time to replace some older An-124s; it will be more capable with its longer range & payload.
    Moscow's Central Aerohydrodynamic Institute (TsAGI) states that the aircraft would able to transport 150t of freight over a range of up to 3,780nm (7,000km), operating off a 3,000m (9,840ft) runway.
    But it would be able to handle a maximum commercial load of 180t – with which it could operate over a distance of 2,645nm.
    The institute says this performance means the aircraft could compete not only with the An-124 but also more modern freighters including the Boeing 747-8F.
    It states that the main geometric and weight parameters of the concept aircraft "have been determined" and that two variants are being considered, with differing deck widths. ..
    During the recent MAKS air show in Moscow, freight specialist Volga-Dnepr outlined its requirements for a replacement for the An-124 – of which it operates a dozen.
    It stated that a new freighter needs to be 35-40% more efficient, with a payload capability of up to 170t.
    TsAGI points out that a heavy transport needs to be compatible, in economic terms, with cargo versions of passenger aircraft models.

    http://airsoc.com/articles/view/id/59808c843d2d2e95728b4567/picture-institute-shows-off-concept-for-an-124-successor


    Last edited by Tsavo Lion on Sun Jan 27, 2019 5:50 pm; edited 2 times in total (Reason for editing : add a quote)
    GarryB
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    Post  GarryB on Sun Jan 27, 2019 9:45 pm

    The Il-106 should have been manly a replacement the An-22. Probably in the upgraded version, with more powerful engines than the originally planned NK-93 and similar cargo size as the An-124, it will be able to perform most of the missions that now only the Ruslan can do.

    The Slon will arrive later and could be something between An-124 and An-225...

    From the article it looks like it is supposed to be a modular design that can have different length and importantly width fuselages along with different numbers of engines and wing sizes to allow bigger and smaller aircraft to be based on the design.

    The Il-106 was certainly intended as an An-22 replacement but the An-22 was heavily used and popular as being able to carry things smaller aircraft couldn't carry and being more often needed than something bigger like the An-124.

    With the An-22 gone now if you need something bigger than a Il-76 then there is only the An-124... so if the payload is 65 tons then you need to go with the big heavy An-124 that could carry twice that...

    No additional security personnel is needed there: they'll be required to regularly check in with local police probation officers & be issued special IDs; passport/ID control will be done on all transport & by the traffic police roadblocks too, if those that try to leave those remote areas w/o a special permission will be arrested, fined & returned to their assigned areas, & if they try again, sent to local prison labor/army camps &/ across Russia, where there is no shortage of work.

    Quicker and easier to just execute them... lower management overheads. Less risk.

    Just having people there is not a solution to anything, and if they agitate and create problems for other people living there they could easily become a real liability... if they are criminals then put them in a real jail. If they are undesirables then make the west think they are political prisoners and offer then green cards and get all sorts of prizes from Nobel and get on the cover of Time magazine...

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    Post  Tsavo Lion on Sun Jan 27, 2019 10:07 pm

    The Il-106 was certainly intended as an An-22 replacement..
    Not only. There r only ~11 An-22s active in the AF & a few more Volga-Dnepr, designing & producing even 2-3 dozen Il-106s just to replace them & bring their former fleet #s back isn't worth it. More feasible would be restarting An-22 production under a different name with modern avionics & modernized engines.
    More Il-106s will be produced to eventually replace Il-76s with these more capable planes. Who said they won't come in 2-3 different variants?
    Quicker and easier to just execute them... lower management overheads. Less risk.
    Russia doesn't have the death penalty. Besides, if there r a lot of them, rehabilitating them is better. Special settlements could be created similar to those the Chechens & other exiles had in C. Asia, with minimal or no contact with others.
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    Post  PapaDragon on Sun Mar 10, 2019 8:50 am

    GunshipDemocracy wrote:.....
    Damn, and those same morons are designing/building Angara, Federtsya, Irtysh or testing Sarmat  

    Angara: late

    Irtysh: delayed

    Federation: delayed (considering that entire design team just ran off to private sector this one seem poised to join Clipper)

    Sarmat: ICBM not spacecraft


    But hey, space tourism!  lol1


    GunshipDemocracy wrote:.....as for sabotage, with US diplomats bringing bombs on Russian civilian airports everything is to me possible.

    Again, completely irrelevant (unless you consider mortar shell to be high-tech)



    GunshipDemocracy wrote:.....But ground sbotge, not idiot but deliberate ground job. Who  and why?

    We can't know that because there is no footage of assembly process. It's good old honor system among the good old boys.



    GunshipDemocracy wrote:.....No idiot, professional hired by by mangers dont like to be prosecuted for frauds and wnt to discredit Robozin.

    Well they are wasting money because Rogozin is doing that job all by himself and far above even most optimistic expectations.


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    Post  kvs on Sun Mar 10, 2019 9:16 am

    PD is a certifiable troll. All he does is piss on Russia and Russians. He uses Roscosmos as some sort of "horrible example" while
    avoiding any meaningful comparison to its analogs in other countries. He also claims that Russians are just using Soviet equipment
    like chimps and cannot actually build and design anything. This racist turd clearly has no concept of what it takes to manufacture
    a rocket. Even if old designs are used, it still requires competence and training to build them. And the cases of failure we have
    seen are clear examples of sabotage (e.g. the Proton rocket crash caused by a key sensor deliberately installed, by force, the wrong
    way). If this was not sabotage, then following the logic of this smelly hater all Russian rockets would fail. After, Russians
    are all incompetent. Seriously, if Russian workers are wont to hammer in sensors upside down, then not a single Russian rocket
    would be viable. Now compare this to the actual failure rates and put this PD moron in full context.

    Funny how clowns from countries without any space program pretend to be some sort of qualified evaluation committee. Even if
    this clown thinks he is an EU citizen, ESA has no manned rocket program. And ESA is a boutique operation considering the relative
    size of the EU and Russian economies. Also, ESA, for some reason decided to adopt that obsolete Soviet tech at Kourou.
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    Post  PapaDragon on Sun Mar 10, 2019 9:44 am

    kvs wrote:PD is a certifiable troll.   All he does is piss on Russia and Russians.   ...

    I don't' remember you complaining when I don't



    kvs wrote:...He uses Roscosmos as some sort of "horrible example" while avoiding any meaningful comparison to its analogs in other countries.   ...

    Here is comparison: how many times have USA/Japan/Europe blamed Russian saboteurs for their own fu*kups?

    One place Russia is in the lead definitely...



    kvs wrote:He also claims that Russians are just using Soviet equipment...

    And are you saying they don't?

    One non-Soviet piece of equipment they are trying to use has been *gasp* delayed... yet again...



    kvs wrote:And the cases of failure we have seen are clear examples of sabotage (e.g. the Proton rocket crash caused by a key sensor deliberately installed, by force, the wrong way)....

    So they finally identified the perpetrator? Good, looking forward to press release thumbsup

    (took them long enough though...)



    kvs wrote:Funny how clowns from countries without any space program ... 

    Let's take this opportunity to remember Canada's conquest of the galaxy

    That robot arm that flew to space all by itself is truly technological wonder



    kvs wrote: This racist turd

    this PD moron...

    Watch it there junior, people might interpret this as personal insult (not that mods care when narrative fits the dogma but who knows...)
    Tsavo Lion
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    Post  Tsavo Lion on Mon Mar 11, 2019 11:43 pm

    Even if he does, the Chavismo & national liberation idea will live on. Colombia had 50 years of insurgency even though its gov. was being aided by the US & their allies.
    S. America is made & ideal for a long guerrilla warfare. Stay tuned!
    The United States until the end of the week will withdraw from Caracas all remaining diplomats
    https://ria.ru/20190312/1551710485.html

    https://lenta.ru/news/2019/03/12/ges/

    http://avia.pro/news/venesuelskie-istrebiteli-perehvatili-amerikanskiy-samolyot-popytavshiysya-narushit-granicu?utm_referrer=https%3A%2F%2Fzen.yandex.com

    Pic. of a Soviet soldier with StG 44, so even back then they used them:
    https://zen.yandex.ru/media/id/5ae73a7879885e47d5eb1ae0/chtoby-nashe-nachalstvo-ne-moglo-posetit-nashi-ukrepleniia-na-rechnom-ostrovke-ia-specialno-strelial-v-storonu-nemeckih-okopov-5c7e75b2c3ef1c00af3cdc09


    Last edited by Tsavo Lion on Tue Mar 12, 2019 12:40 am; edited 2 times in total (Reason for editing : add links)
    verkhoturye51
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    Post  verkhoturye51 on Tue Mar 12, 2019 9:16 am

    Russia is almost a land locked country

    It's the only country in the world with ports in three oceans and their desire to trade is clear to me, but their ability to deter the US from interventing in the Third world is seriously limited by US having allies on their border. Bring Kuz to Venezuela, which is of relatively small interest to them, so they can have more US presence in Ukraine 500 km from Moscow? The long-term price they could pay and the risks are too high. They mitigated this lately with stepping up the defence with hypersonic missiles and eventually going to Syria, but that's about it. The US has too high leverage over Russia right now. Not fixing Ukraine problem will limit the likelihood of intervention in Venezuela.

    Where does Shchuka-B come in? As I said, SSKs are more needed than SSNs. They've been following this idea for some time now and it is as true now as it was in December. It will help them press on Kiev, Berlin and Tokyo, which is strategically a priority over losing Maduro.

    Offensive investing in CVNs and SSNs, this is the US doctrine. Hate it as much as you wish, but they can do it because they've taken care of domestic affairs first via Monroe doctrine. Russia is globally still on defensive positon, as it was in the entire Soviet era, no matter how they pretend do be free and trade with African countries. The only hope for world multipolarity is either their alliance with China or taking care of their neighbourhood issues, both of which is gradually taking place.
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    Post  GarryB on Tue Mar 12, 2019 5:55 pm

    Bring Kuz to Venezuela, which is of relatively small interest to them, so they can have more US presence in Ukraine 500 km from Moscow?

    But the US has a presence in the Ukraine anyway... whether Russia does anything or not... the US also has a presence in Georgia and the baltic states and Poland and soon Finland too... do you think this process is going to stop for no reason at all?

    US Jupiter missiles in Turkey didn't leave by themselves... it took Soviet missiles in Cuba to make them rethink their policy of putting nukes near Moscow... seems they need another gesture now too, but this isn't just about Venezuela... why would any country want to trade with Russia if there is a risk that the US might decide to impose sanctions and steal their resources... they are actually interested in all sorts of materials other than oil too you know...

    The long-term price they could pay and the risks are too high. They mitigated this lately with stepping up the defence with hypersonic missiles and eventually going to Syria, but that's about it. The US has too high leverage over Russia right now. Not fixing Ukraine problem will limit the likelihood of intervention in Venezuela.

    I would say the opposite... US leverage is getting less and less because when you use links to force others to do as you tell them those links get broken pretty quickly and the US has less and less leverage... they already used the EU as leverage too and there were rather more links between the EU and Russia, which are now in tatters... most of the broken connections have been solved with investment and development of Russian solutions or increased trade with China and other countries.

    The future of Russia will be separate from the future of the US... I am sure when Trump leaves office there is going to be a backlash at all the damage he has done internationally, but the fact that there are only two political parties in the US and they both love bashing Russia I don't think a new election and a change of government will make very much difference... Russia is not seen as a potential ally, it is a rival... and a serious rival that is literally a threat to US leadership of the world (in their eyes).

    Russia will need a strong navy because there is no way it can assume international justice in its favour ever again.

    If Russia wants a future, it needs trading partners and its old eastern european partners have all jumped in to bed with the EU and US and they don't approve of bed sharing... the Ukraine cannot be a friend to the west and to Russia at the same time... they never say why... you just can't.

    In such a situation Russia needs mobile and powerful surface naval groups that can operate world wide for extended periods and ensure open sea lines of communication... it is OK they don't have to be the worlds police... they don't have to keep every sea lane open, but they do need to protect their trade and the trade of their allies when needed... they can't do that with Corvettes and Frigates and a helicopter carrier no matter what combination of letters you use to describe it.

    Where does Shchuka-B come in? As I said, SSKs are more needed than SSNs. They've been following this idea for some time now and it is as true now as it was in December. It will help them press on Kiev, Berlin and Tokyo, which is strategically a priority over losing Maduro.

    I agree that right now Ladas are important, but they have already put in a big order... they will be delivered at the rate they come and no faster... SSNs are also valuable because they are actually SSGNs too... why not have both?

    Offensive investing in CVNs and SSNs, this is the US doctrine.

    No it isn't. A CVN is to protect other Russian ships and sub groupings... it is not the purpose of the grouping.

    Russia is globally still on defensive positon, as it was in the entire Soviet era, no matter how they pretend do be free and trade with African countries. The only hope for world multipolarity is either their alliance with China or taking care of their neighbourhood issues, both of which is gradually taking place.

    Their neighbourhood issues are never going to change... even if someone waves a magic wand and Kiev has real elections that all of the Ukraine participates in and they are free and fair and everyone accepts the results they are not suddenly going to become an ally of Russia... they are still going to be focussed on the west for future growth and development... hell the west might even purposely rig the election so the anti EU people win just so they don't have to pay the cost of rebuilding and restoring the Ukraine to something resembling a normal country... someone is going to have to spend hundreds of billions of dollars to fix them and you can bet your ass it wont be the US...

    I am not suggesting Russia needs 13 carrier groups with CVNs and needs to become the worlds policeman and fight the US and UK and France for control of the high seas, but what they do need is the ability to protect allies from the shit the US and the west is pulling on Venezuela right now and what they tried to pull on Syria and Libya and Kosovo and Georgia.

    Now Georgia proved that even if they had 13 carrier groups and all the power of the US... sometimes you can't do much except talk... sometimes the country involved is too far away from you and too close to the other guy for you to do anything about it... Kosovo is the same for Russia... a couple of carrier groups would not have helped there either...

    But then if a huge navy and an enormous budget and spying tools that would give the Stasi an enormous collective errection are not enough sometimes then nothing Russia could manage will make them omnipotent... but that is not the goal.

    For a country like Venezuela to choose Maduro, they need to be sure the US wont bowl in and change things... and currently the only things stopping that are Russia, China, Cuba, Turkey, and a few other countries that are not total bitches to the US...

    Russia developing a global naval reach means there can be an alternative to the unipolar American reality.
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    Post  GarryB on Tue Mar 12, 2019 9:38 pm

    Pic. of a Soviet soldier with StG 44, so even back then they used them:

    What is that supposed to prove? And what has it got to do with anything in this thread?

    The germans put Soviet 120mm mortars into production and started using them widely after coming under their fire against the Soviets... they also used any T-34 tank they managed to capture too.

    There are photos of American pilots flying MiG-15s is America going to start producing MiG-15s?

    Does that mean the MiG-15 is superior to all other US fighter planes?

    And the photo shows a Soviet soldier holding a rifle... not using it.... it could have been a staged propaganda photo for all we know... a lot of them were.... and the ones that weren't were censored or destroyed.

    Nobody. In case of Russia i think the biggest problem is, its lack of style, art and class. India is extremly filthy, same counts for China.

    Says the French librarian monkey in a grey knitted cardigan...

    But the city of Paris has a greater economic power than entire Russia.

    So it is OK to be a shithole if you are rich?


    Australia totally matched my Standard and i respect it.

    Is that ironic or what... most Aussies I know despise french people... and love Americans...

    Thes forest in Venezuela is not similar to brazil. Totally different ecosystem.

    Hilarious... a european who cares about the rainforest... what about the great forests in europe... where have they all gone and why is europe not punished for getting rid of them?

    As long as he keeps the support of the military Maduro will be as hard to shift from power as Saddam was... even Venezuelas neighbours have said they are not interested in assisting a US invasion.
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    Post  Tsavo Lion on Wed Mar 13, 2019 2:30 am

    And the photo shows a Soviet soldier holding a rifle... not using it..
    It's the proof that it was captured during the war. Not only they used it, as mentioned in the source I posted, but the AK-47 is it's direct descendant. The German engineers helped Kalashnikov to set up its production. I've seen both rifles up close & their similarity is striking.
    The Japanese swordsmiths copied Western muskets as soon as they got a hold of them & being ordered to do so.
    It shows that useful things can be adopted by anybody.
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    Post  GarryB on Wed Mar 13, 2019 6:16 am

    It's the proof that it was captured during the war.

    They captured all sorts of German equipment during the war and they also copied a lot of it... just like the Americans did.

    V2 rockets started being launched in testing all over the Soviet Union and the US...

    The US M60 machine gun is actually based on the MG-42 machine gun, yet they managed to make it totally inferior to the original.

    Not only they used it, as mentioned in the source I posted, but the AK-47 is it's direct descendant.

    Your ignorance is amusing. the worlds first assault rifle was the Federov Avtomat... it fired a 120 grain bullet at about 650m/s and had a 25 round curved magazine and it was gas operated. It entered Imperial Russian Army service in a testing batch in 1916... I suspect the Germans copied that.

    The Soviets certainly were influenced by it because they include the word Avtomat in the names of all their assault rifles... in the English language the word Hoover is used to describe the act of vaccuming carpet because Hoover produced a product to perform that duty. In some places the product used was called Electralux, and the act of cleaning the carpet is not called Hoovering... it is called Luxing...

    In Russia the name for an Assault rifle is Avtomat for the same reason.

    The Soviets fought just before WWII against the Fins and while they had already designed a SMG they had rejected the idea of putting it in widespread production and service... the short bloody conflict against the Finns made them realise the value of light automatic weapons so they updated the 1940 model SMG with the PPSH-41 and put them in mass production and deployed them as quickly as they could and then a little later with the PPS-43 which was easier and cheaper to make.

    In combat against the Germans both weapons were found to be rather effective, the older model a bit heavy, and a bit fussy about its mags, but they were both excellent weapons... after the war the Finns copied the PPS-43 directly... just like they copied the Mosin rifle and the AK... and during the war the germans developed assault rifles to try to outrange all these Soviet SMGs.

    The German engineers helped Kalashnikov to set up its production.

    German engineers did very little, otherwise it would have been much easier and quicker to set up what ended up being the third model AK production with stamped sheeting.

    The only real impact German engineers had on Soviet Small Arms design was in pistols, because it was not really considered very important.

    I've seen both rifles up close & their similarity is striking.

    Did you bother to open them up because internally their design is totally different.

    The only similarity is the basic layout... and with the gas system on top of the barrel, which plenty of Soviet rifles had before this german weapon even existed, suggests the similarities are superficial.

    The curved magazine is because both used ammo that did not have parallel sides so it would jam a straight mag... the Federov Avtomat has a curved magazine too... did the Germans copy that too?

    It shows that useful things can be adopted by anybody.

    The Germans introduced assault rifles to try to overcome the Soviet superiority in short range fire power with their submachine guns.

    The Soviets reacted by introducing their own assault rifles to counter that... the SKS rifle was introduced to field testing in 1944 during WWII.

    The assault rifle was very effective in open areas but in built up areas like city fighting often its extra reach was hard to take advantage of.

    In comparison the west demanded assault rifle performance with full power rifle cartridges in the immediate post WWII war period.... did they not fight the Germans at all?
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    Post  Walther von Oldenburg on Wed Mar 13, 2019 6:57 am

    Garry - what exactly makes M60 worse than MG42? Just bein' curious.
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    Post  flamming_python on Wed Mar 13, 2019 7:15 am

    PapaDragon wrote:
    hoom wrote:
    Yasens seem to be coming along nicely though; fast construction now with many laid down in parallel
    Lots in construction, still only 2 launched & only the first in service.
    3rd was laid down 4yrs after Kazan.
    I'd like to see more of them in the water before leasing out one of the few operational Akulas.

    Agreed, they have another big gap in SSN construction now

    They keep talking about Huskies for years but nothing is happening on that front which would absolutely be no problem at all if they kept building Yasens but still nothing

    They were talking about Gorshkovs a lot but when it was delayed they just ordered some more Admiral Grigoroviches. And on the back of Indian money for the development of the Talwar class too.

    They can just as easily do the same thing and order more Yasens if they need to.
    Shouldn't be any problems.. unless the Yasens also have Ukrainian engines.
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    Post  verkhoturye51 on Wed Mar 13, 2019 8:27 am

    do you think this process is going to stop for no reason at all?

    Definitely it takes some assertiveness to stop the US imperialism. The thing is that politics is like a game of chess. A move forward in the wrong time can worsen your position. They play as black and must figure a way to defend themselves. Ukraine is like a central square on the chessboard. They made a successful side intervention in Syria, they've eaten a white pawn and now they enjoy a better starting point for planning the tactics in Ukraine. It was exhausting to play on both sides of chessboard at the same time, defending in Ukraine and "attacking" in Syria. But it was successful because it was well planned, swift and not too wasteful on resources. But repeating Afghanistan in Venezuela could ultimately exhaust their defence budget and public opinion that much, that they couldn't play with the US in Ukraine anymore. Brief Poroshenko's offensive and it's all over. No trade with 3rd world countries and economical gains would offset this geostrategic deterioration. Eg. coastal Aegis in Mariupol and Odessa would require substituting all Kalibr and Onyx missiles in the BS fleet with Zircons, leaving less money for other projects.

    So yes, interventions like Syria are acceptable if they improve a positon, but that was more like a well-planned exception, a bypass for signalling the US that Russia is serious in Ukraine. But most of their energy should be directed directly at this problem. And no blue water navy is required there. The practice confirms this: first production of classes 636 and 677 now, delaying 971 modernization, as well as the production of Husky and 885. Russia getting involved in world conflicts and spend overly on military is exactly what US wants - a repeat of their mistakes. The process you talk about will stop if Russians play it smart and move forward only when neccessary. If giving up Maduro will win them Ukraine, it would be worth it.

    US leverage is getting less and less because when you use links to force others to do as you tell them those links get broken pretty quickly and the US has less and less leverage.

    It was beautiful to see Germany tell the US that they aren't going through Kerch strait in Munich. My point is that right now position isn't exactly rosy with permanent NATO forward presence. It's definitely improving, but it's a result of doing politics and business with Eastern Europe. As you said leverage is decreasing and the US isn't in position to tell countries not to go with bed with Russia when it comes to business like S-400. But abandoning relations with new NATO members for better relations with 3rd world countries would be a strategic mistake. I can easily see Macron's idea of European army taking place in a few years and the US could leave only a small contingent like in S. Korea. But a big contribution that Russia can do right now to make sure this takes place is to strategically sit back quietly and delay the blue water ships production.

    what they do need is the ability to protect allies from the shit the US and the west is pulling on Venezuela right now and what they tried to pull on Syria and Libya and Kosovo and Georgia.

    I see this more as a long-term idea. Firstly to prioritise 677 and 663 projects, than speed up 885 and 971 M and finally Husky, keeping military budget constant all the time. Otherwise it's clear that Venezuela and other partners are important, and if they don't protect them, they'll lose them.
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    Post  nomadski on Wed Mar 13, 2019 8:45 am

    I am now afraid to say anything with Garry around ! His knowledge  is equal to an army of men ! My views  are that equipment should have minimum number of parts . And parts should be large enough , not to be lost and easily handled . Everything else being equal .

    As lion said , some things are copied . I think by everyone . I have said in the past , do not copy , or do not copy blindly . For example ,  do we copy Stuxnet  and feed it fertilizers and break down power in America ?  So that  the American housewives fail to cook Thanksgiving  dinner , get upset and send their sons to war to kill our sons ? This is blindly copy .

    Or do we create a zombie stuxnet and give it a Canadian ( for example ) surname ,  and send it to wall street ? Where the millionaires  that planned  the cyber  attack against us , gamble with the national wealth  ? They will soon loose their gold plated toilets and have to sit in their pants ? Maybe then they will not go asking for more money to do cyber attacks in the world ?

    American and European millionaires , have many obscure banks in the Caribbean . Where they stash their ill gotten gains . They have property and mansions too . Closer to Venezuela !



    Last edited by nomadski on Thu Mar 14, 2019 2:02 pm; edited 1 time in total

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