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    Talking bollocks thread #2

    KiloGolf
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    Talking bollocks thread #2 - Page 10 Empty Re: Talking bollocks thread #2

    Post  KiloGolf Sun Apr 01, 2018 2:42 am

    GarryB wrote:In the new vehicle families there is no MBT... there are three tanks and likely one light gun platform.

    Well that vehicle family has a main battle tank, heavy or light or whatever.
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    Post  kvs Sun Apr 01, 2018 4:42 am



    Says a lot about how the T-14 can handle a 152 mm gun (bigger than the Ferdinand) and not suffer from the
    ridiculous engineering problems. The myths about German wunderwaffen are quite pervasive. Looks like
    even during WWII the procurement was utterly corrupt. This is also a nice counter-example to all the
    NATO hater bleaters who claim Russia is pathologically corrupt. You don't get T-14 designs in corrupt environments,
    you get rubbish like the Feridanand.
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    Post  The-thing-next-door Sun Apr 01, 2018 10:22 am

    KiloGolf wrote:Hungary was 1956 and that's pretty much the end of the non-L7 Centurion's golden era. Till 1953 in Korea the Centurion had a field day against T-34/85 (which till the 50s it was the core of Soviet/WP operational tank). Stabilization-wise, the Brits claim Mk3 got it since 1948. There's a chance both sides used a bit of propaganda on that.

    I have always wonder why British tanks of eraly could war are so over rated would anyone care to shed light on this subject?

    Well the centurion is over weight and under protcted just like all wester tanks and its 84mm 20 pdr gun is inferior to the 100mm D10T and the 84mm could not fire HEAT aswell as having less powerfull HE shells compared to the 100mm.

    Also the 105mm L7 was not all that impresseive and was not really that much better than the 100mm D10t and certainly cound not contend with the 125mm guns of the post T-64 Soviet tanks.
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    Post  KiloGolf Sun Apr 01, 2018 3:39 pm

    The-thing-next-door wrote:Well the centurion is over weight and under protcted just like all wester tanks and its 84mm 20 pdr gun is inferior to the 100mm D10T and the 84mm could not fire HEAT aswell as having less powerfull HE shells compared to the 100mm.

    Also the 105mm L7 was not all that impresseive and was not really that much better than the 100mm D10t and certainly cound not contend with the 125mm guns of the post T-64 Soviet tanks.

    T-54 entered service in 1955, by that time the Brits were already moving away from the 20pdr. In 1955 they were preparing to switch to Mk 5 with L7, which is a clear match to the D10T, if not a marginally better gun at the time. In 1956 they got their trophy T-54 thus they made sure all Centurions could essentially beat it.
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    Post  archangelski Sun Apr 01, 2018 4:02 pm

    KiloGolf wrote:
    The-thing-next-door wrote:Well the centurion is over weight and under protcted just like all wester tanks and its 84mm 20 pdr gun is inferior to the 100mm D10T and the 84mm could not fire HEAT aswell as having less powerfull HE shells compared to the 100mm.

    Also the 105mm L7 was not all that impresseive and was not really that much better than the 100mm D10t and certainly cound not contend with the 125mm guns of the post T-64 Soviet tanks.

    T-54 entered service in 1955, by that time the Brits were already moving away from the 20pdr. In 1955 they were preparing to switch to Mk 5 with L7, which is a clear match to the D10T, if not a marginally better gun at the time. In 1956 they got their trophy T-54 thus they made sure all Centurions could essentially beat it.

    1955 was the year of introduction of the T-54A with the D-10TG (gun stabilisation in vertical axis). T-54 (T-54-2/T-54 model 1949) became operationnally available in soviet inventory in 1949 (evaluation T-54-1/T-54 model 1946 appearing in 1946), being quantitatively ordered in 1947. Between 1949 and 1951, 2523 T-54-2 were produced in 3 factories. In 1952, T-54-3/T-54 model 1951 replaced the former model on the production lines till 1955, with 7009 tanks produded.

    PS : Can we go back to Armata please ?
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    Post  KiloGolf Sun Apr 01, 2018 4:55 pm

    archangelski wrote:1955 was the year of introduction of the T-54A with the D-10TG (gun stabilisation in vertical axis). T-54 (T-54-2/T-54 model 1949) became operationnally available in soviet inventory in 1949

    Yeah, we're talking about the D-10TG one.
    Those early, non -A T-54s don't count for anything in this little debate (gun stabilization and so on).
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    Post  The-thing-next-door Sun Apr 01, 2018 7:48 pm

    KiloGolf wrote:
    The-thing-next-door wrote:Well the centurion is over weight and under protcted just like all wester tanks and its 84mm 20 pdr gun is inferior to the 100mm D10T and the 84mm could not fire HEAT aswell as having less powerfull HE shells compared to the 100mm.

    Also the 105mm L7 was not all that impresseive and was not really that much better than the 100mm D10t and certainly cound not contend with the 125mm guns of the post T-64 Soviet tanks.

    T-54 entered service in 1955, by that time the Brits were already moving away from the 20pdr. In 1955 they were preparing to switch to Mk 5 with L7, which is a clear match to the D10T, if not a marginally better gun at the time. In 1956 they got their trophy T-54 thus they made sure all Centurions could essentially beat it.

    My original point was about how the IS-7 in the 1940s was not needed as the IS-3 and 4 were already more than enough to combat the Red Armys newer and less competent enemy.

    But then you just had to babble on about your delution of how British tanks were compltely invincibe wunderwaffe and give examples of tanks from the very late 1950s which is almost 15 years after the IS-3s introduction to service.

    The Centrion with the 105mm L7 would not have fought IS-3s but instead T10Ms and T-62s.
    The best tanks that the IS-3 would have faced would have been the M-46 and 84mm centurion niether of which could penetrate its frontal armor with the rounds available at the time.

    Oh and the T10M had a 2 plane stabilizer and night vsion equipment.

    Now could you finaly drop you Bristish power delutions and get on with the discution about the Armatas main gun.
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    Post  KiloGolf Mon Apr 02, 2018 12:26 am

    The-thing-next-door wrote:you just had to babble on about your delution of how British tanks were compltely invincibe wunderwaffe and give examples of tanks from the very late 1950s

    I said that the Centurion was the most capable tank out there since the late 40s. Made my points, so move on.
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    Post  Peŕrier Mon Apr 02, 2018 12:26 am

    The-thing-next-door wrote:
    KiloGolf wrote:
    The-thing-next-door wrote:In the late 40s the west bearly had anything with which to combat the IS-3 there was nothing that they had which would require an IS-7 to defeat it.

    Actually the West reigned supreme in the late 40s (through to late 50s). Educate yourself on the British Centurion since 1948 (MkIII). Full gun stabilization, high mobility and guns starting from 20pdr 84mm and going to 105mm L7. It could deal with IS-3 and T-34/85 armor easily. In fact it could run circles around such tanks then.

    No the 105mm L7 was only introduced in 1959.

    Oh and the ability to penetrate the armor of a T-34-85 in the late 1940 is not very impressive.

    The T-54 was the best medium tank of the late 1940s but it was only introduced in 1949 however that is still 10 years before the L7.

    First, the T-54 in its very first version was almost a failure, it took at least T-54A to get a reasonable efficient tank.

    Actually, it needed a whole array of improvements leading to T-55 to get the true design's potential.

    Centurion was a really advanced tank, with very good protection, very good acceleration and mean speed, very good sight unit, and already with 20 Pdrs. AKA 84,4 mm armed with a gun able to defeat any armor in service.

    As many tank's designers discovered between early 50ies and 60ies, high velocity guns from II WW armed with modern APDS rounds were already able to defeat most modern armor despite increased thicknesses at reasonable ranges.

    Newer guns became able to defeat any enemy's armor even at the maximum practical ranges.

    Even a IS-3 would have not easily survived a direct hit from a british APDS round, and it was amongst other, one possible reason because soviets opted to phase out all their heavy tanks and to rely on medium tanks only.

    In the timeframe spanning from late 40ies to early 60ies, there was no technological chance to design a tank able to actually withstand enemy's fire from almost any high velocity gun over 75 mm caliber.

    The only advantages a T-54, even in the A variant, could claim upon a Centurion were its range and its higher tactical mobility.

    But those were outweighted by an inferior gunner sight, poor ergonomics of the turret, old design antiarmor ammunitions and lack of a efficient gun's stabilization.

    Centurion was actually a very fine design, well balanced in most of its characteristics and very reliable even being a fairly complex and sophisticated design.
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    Post  The-thing-next-door Mon Apr 02, 2018 10:12 am

    Peŕrier wrote:Centurion was a really advanced tank, with very good protection, very good acceleration and mean speed, very good sight unit, and already with 20 Pdrs. AKA 84,4 mm armed with a gun able to defeat any armor in service.


    Would you care to define what make the primitive piece of crap "advanced" or are you just going to parrot generic western propaganda?

    And also its armor (for the uparmored version) was not all that impressive and was inferior to the T-54 while the earlier models had less armor than a Panther.

    Oh and would you care to mention exactly how the 84mm is impessive? It just in not.


    Peŕrier wrote:As many tank's designers discovered between early 50ies and 60ies, high velocity guns from II WW armed with modern APDS rounds were already able to defeat most modern armor despite increased thicknesses at reasonable ranges.

    Newer guns became able to defeat any enemy's armor even at the maximum practical ranges.


    Yes as we all know the British did not panic and rush the L7 into service when they first had the chance to inspect a T-54.

    would you care to explain why the British after thier first time examining a T-54 suddenly needed the L7 if thier 84mm guns were so effective aginst it?

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    Post  Peŕrier Mon Apr 02, 2018 6:27 pm

    No, you have to substantiate your statement about the Centurion being crap.

    It was no less protected than a T-55, had a better sight unit, way better ergonomics for the crew, very good suspensions, engine and transmission, a wonderful gun being it the QF20 or the L7.

    The QF20 by the way, coupled with the british APDS rounds, proved to be able to knock off a T-54 from over 2000 meters, while no D10T was able to engage successfully an enemy's MBT at long distances because lacking modern Armor Piercing rounds.

    The western engineers were in no way scared to see the T-54 armor, but estmated that future MBTs would have added armor and so they began the development of larger guns. The QF20 was so good that it took little more than enlarging the chamber and using a larger caliber barrel to get the L7.

    Until the first composit armors fielded with T-64 and T-72, reality was that there were no practical way to resist APDS rounds, and D10T main fault was not in the gun itself, but in the missed development of a APDS round.

    There was far more expectations from 50ies and 60ies armour than they deserved: the best they accomplished, both in the west and in the east, was to made hopelessly obsolete all infantry antitank guns and surplus second world war tanks.

    Confronted one on one, neither a modern western tank nor an equivalent soviet tank could survive a direct hit from the other.

    The only handicap was on the soviet side about ammunitions: BR-412B was an old school round that lost rapidly its speed becoming both inprecise and far less effective past 1500 meters range.
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    Post  The-thing-next-door Mon Apr 02, 2018 11:24 pm

    Peŕrier wrote:No,  you have to substantiate your statement about the Centurion being crap.

    It was no less protected than a T-55, had a better sight unit, way better ergonomics for the crew, very good suspensions, engine and transmission, a wonderful gun being it the QF20 or the L7.

    Wrong the centrion had 76mm RHA sloped at what looks like 50 degrees on the hull (later it was incresed but not by much) and I believe 180 to 200 mm
    flat CHA on the trurret front.

    While the early model T-54s has 120mm RHA sloped at 60 degrees on the hull giving it a LOS thicknes of 240mm
    (later varients had only 100mm with an LOS thickness of 200mm) while the turret only had 205mm CHA it was rounded and its effectiveness would increase substantially if an incoming round were to hit it high or too the side.

    Another thing worth mentioning is that the T-54 had 80mm of side armor thus giving it a much wider ark of protection.

    [quote="Peŕrier"]The QF20 by the way, coupled with the british APDS rounds, proved to be able to knock off a T-54 from over 2000 meters, while no D10T was able to engage successfully an enemy's MBT at long distances because lacking modern Armor Piercing rounds.

    The western engineers were in no way scared to see the T-54 armor, but estmated that future MBTs would have added armor and so they began the development of larger guns. The QF20 was so good that it took little more than enlarging the chamber and using a larger caliber barrel to get the L7.

    Peŕrier wrote:Until the first composit armors fielded with T-64 and T-72, reality was that there were no practical way to resist APDS rounds, and D10T main fault was not in the gun itself, but in the missed development of a APDS round.

    Would you care to post a link to a source that shows information on penetration at 2 km and date of introduction because you random asumtions dont hold water.

    And the D-10T did have APDS rounds although I can't find any data on them.

    And the L7 did not see the light of day until 1959 so why are you even bringing it up?

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    Post  Vann7 Tue Apr 03, 2018 7:16 am

    GarryB wrote:
    In Vannville people don't make mistakes, there are no accidents, and everyone lives forever... and Putin wipes Vanns ass.

    In the real world Putin kicks Vanns ass, because Vann is all about the pitchfork and the matches...

    LMV.... Lynch Mob Vann...

    No.. im not saying People don't make mistakes...  already stated that..
    Mistakes happen.. but only in third world nations you dont enforce security laws and allow
    Shopping centers to operate under major risk for civilian population....

    Can fires be prevented.. ? No..
    They can happen..

    Can you prevent people from taking big toll in civilian casualties? Absolutely..

    if you pay attention to the reports , the Fire emergency Doors were locked. So in hell that happened?
    And then you have security staff all of them survived but a handful of them , evacuated civilians..
    it shows clearly the mall security staff most of them ,was operating with ZERO TRAINING in security ,
    ZERO supervision , Zero quality controls since alarms were off.. and civilians were saying that NO ONE told
    them there was a fire.. So how can that be possible? That nobody warns civilians there is a far that need to leave?
    this is not accident.. this is CRIMINAL INCOMPETENCE.. if you can't understand the difference..then im wasting
    my time arguing with you.


    The problem is not "mistakes" But Mediocre System of security... that was running the mall...
    If they had competent people there ,focused in their jobs ,not in the World Cup happening in their country..
    then Childrens will not be locked in the CInema.. and they will have been evacuated as soon the smoke shows.
    There was only a handful of employees who evacuated children.. but Police ,neither fire department did a fucking shit.
    The mall was even allowed to operate without having security license ,and neither had staff trained to contain a fire..
    and or what to do in case of fire.. you are supposed to tell civilians to use the fire emergency door , that is supposed to lead DIRECTLY outside the building. but in Russia anything is possible.

    Go ahead and find me any accident in US and Europe in a shopping mall ,were many civilians died..
    i bet you can't find me a single one... in the civilized world ,people take security of civilians in shopping
    malls very seriously .  And business that violates the security protocols of the city are .automatically closed..
    Firefighters simply call police and they close the building and the manager could even be ARRESTED.. but when you have a nation with epidemic incompetence as their leaders ,anything is possible.

    So the problem is not that there was an accident . just get this Right for once..
    The problem is that in Russia its authorities Dont give a shit about the security of its citizens ,and the security protocols
    and the quality controls rarely followed..  Combat planes flying low hugging civilians roads. tanks driving in cities , military instalation in very poor conditions , Hundred of soldiers that die ,sleeping in their barracks ,consequence of the same issue of Criminal negligence, government not enforcing construction security protocols , Leadership incompetence ,poor quality controls.

    There is simply no enforcement of security laws.. and no proper follow up and supervision.
    can accidents be prevented? no. but can accidents be significantly minimized and casualties prevented? yes.
    If you have well trained security staff ,with Emergency exit doors working and alarm working and with tools to contain
    the fire.. but in that mall... most children were left to die , screaming and no body came to their rescue.. No
    so get for once this right. IS not ACCIDENT The problem.. IS INCOMPETENCE.



    So keep praising Russia government ,incompetence.. even Putin says it was CRIMINAL NEGLIGENCE.
    But yet you claim it  was an "accident".. not it was not an accident what killed so many people..it
    was criminal negligence. totally different thing. So get over it. If the security protocols were all followed
    and enforced at the same level they are in the west.. in shopping malls.. then very likely all the childrens
    in the cinema will have been saved.. because those Emergency Exit doors NEVER can't be locked or blocked..
    and staff inside the theater should be evacuating children as soon see the fire and smoke.. instead of running away
    like cowards and leaving children inside crying. Poor training and poor supervision ,poor quality controls of the fire alarm and poor preparation of the building to contain fire and mediocre managers. The entire mediocre system
    of security was what killed the children. that were left there alone in the fire..

    Thousands of people where the incident happened says it was criminal negligence.. Putin says it was criminal negligence . Only people ignorant on the topic in discussion will say it was an accident.  Accidents are things
    you have no control... Criminal Negligence are things you can control ,but that you choose to not do it.. is a totally
    different thing. the City Authorities and the Mall Managers took the decision to not Enforce the laws of security ,
    and for sure neither trained staff of security what to do ,in case of a fire.. Reason why most of the staff of security
    escaped to safety quickly while leaving children inside crying without help. .  So get over it.. you are wrong Garry
    this was not an accident.. it was CRIMINAL NEGLIGENCE , Government Incompetence.. no more and no less..
    People in power did not took seriously the security of civilians , don't took seriously their jobs and such thing can
    only happen when you have poor leadership in power ,that do not supervise the job of people under his authority.

    if the doors all worked.. if the alarms all worked and only died a few people... then you will have a point.. then it will have been an accident.. but when the entire system of security fails ,and nobody give a dam of lives of people,since nobody followed the protocols and allowed the mall to operate without permissions..then is not accident but criminal negligence and mediocre leadership.
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    Talking bollocks thread #2 - Page 10 Empty Talking Bollocks = Centurion... Super tank or not so great

    Post  GarryB Tue Apr 03, 2018 10:39 am

    Well that vehicle family has a main battle tank, heavy or light or whatever.

    No.

    A main battle tank by definition replaces light, medium, and heavy tanks... it is the main battle tank.

    With Armata and Kurganets and Boomerang and Typhoon they will have a heavy tank in the form of Armata, and two medium types... Kurganets tracked and Boomerang wheeled, and a light tank in the form of the wheeled Typhoon.

    T-54 entered service in 1955, by that time the Brits were already moving away from the 20pdr. In 1955 they were preparing to switch to Mk 5 with L7, which is a clear match to the D10T, if not a marginally better gun at the time. In 1956 they got their trophy T-54 thus they made sure all Centurions could essentially beat it.

    The Centurion wasn't a bad tank... it was very good for a British tank, but you are going to need more than the 4,500 odd they made to make it a great tank...

    Between 1949 and 1951, 2523 T-54-2 were produced in 3 factories. In 1952, T-54-3/T-54 model 1951 replaced the former model on the production lines till 1955, with 7009 tanks produded.

    Which is easily rather more than were ever produced of the Centurion.

    PS : Can we go back to Armata please ?

    Will move it.

    Yeah, we're talking about the D-10TG one.
    Those early, non -A T-54s don't count for anything in this little debate (gun stabilization and so on).

    So by the same token the pre L7 Centurions should not count... and that was the majority BTW.

    In the timeframe spanning from late 40ies to early 60ies, there was no technological chance to design a tank able to actually withstand enemy's fire from almost any high velocity gun over 75 mm caliber.

    So how could you possibly claim any tank was inferior because its armour could be penetrated after making that statement?

    It was no less protected than a T-55, had a better sight unit, way better ergonomics for the crew, very good suspensions, engine and transmission, a wonderful gun being it the QF20 or the L7.

    The T-54 never had any problems with its engine or transmission.

    Until the first composit armors fielded with T-64 and T-72, reality was that there were no practical way to resist APDS rounds, and D10T main fault was not in the gun itself, but in the missed development of a APDS round.

    A westerners view.... for a very long while the T-34 was armed with a 76.2mm gun and then it was upgraded to an 85mm gun... if they wanted armour penetration then there was a perfectly good 57mm gun they could have used that could have penetrated tigers and panthers at max range.... but the vast majority of targets were not tanks... so a better HE round was actually rather more valuable... considering how few Centurions were made I don't think they were wrong.

    And the D-10T did have APDS rounds although I can't find any data on them.

    And the L7 did not see the light of day until 1959 so why are you even bringing it up?

    I seem to remember the APDS round for the 100mm gun was based on the APDS round for the 115mm T-62 and by the time it came out they had already started putting the T-64 into service...

    And now I am going to move all this crap out of this section.
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    Post  KiloGolf Tue Apr 03, 2018 11:23 am

    GarryB wrote:
    And now I am going to move all this crap out of this section.

    Get over it mate.
    You're free to go with un-stabilized T-34 or vertical-stabilized early T-54 for all I care.

    The fact remains, the Centurion is hands down the best tank between the late 40s and mid-to-late 50s.
    Among its many features, the advanced 2-plane stabilizer, in service since 1948 wins this.

    /thread
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    Post  Vann7 Wed Apr 04, 2018 8:34 pm

    and new FIRE in a new MALL , ..

    live


    spanish RT



    This look like a lower level arson terror attack , someone perhaps got the idea
    from the previous mall fire incident. What is interesting this time..
    is how little casualties happened.. apparently at the moment ,just 1 person killed and few wounded by smoke.
    This is a HUGE difference to what happened before.. So many people lives can be saved in mall Fire , if you have
    a quick security working ,and alarms working.. and this building was very tall ,which was more complex to evacuate.

    With Good water system ,and well trained security staff ,and anti fire equipment deployed in every store and room ,and floor you can even do better..and prevent casualties most times and contain the fire to only the room ,that it began.
    But any way is still much better than last week mall fire. almost no casualties or injured people.. Good job.
    and this one looks like it was Terrorism... which means even more security will need to be implemented across
    all Shopping malls and major buildings in Russia. and civilians work together to contain  fires from spreading.
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    Post  GarryB Thu Apr 05, 2018 3:28 am

    Get over it mate.
    You're free to go with un-stabilized T-34 or vertical-stabilized early T-54 for all I care.

    The fact remains, the Centurion is hands down the best tank between the late 40s and mid-to-late 50s.
    Among its many features, the advanced 2-plane stabilizer, in service since 1948 wins this.

    OF course... the centurion was a super tank and if WWIII had started in 1949 those 4,500 Centurions would have been in Moscow by tea time tomorrow... just the same as many German tanks were very sophisticated and on paper very superior vehicles, but that didn't seem to really matter either... by the time they got them into service it was past the high tide water mark for Germany and they were retreating away from Moscow, not moving towards it... despite those T-34s not having stabilised guns... imagine that?

    Of course 4,500 Centurions would have made those 84,000 T-34s shiver in their tracks, not to mention the 100,000 plus T-54/55 tanks built would also fear the might British menace...
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    Post  The-thing-next-door Thu Apr 05, 2018 2:09 pm

    GarryB wrote:Of course 4,500 Centurions would have made those 84,000 T-34s shiver in their tracks, not to mention the 100,000 plus T-54/55 tanks built would also fear the might British menace...

    Untill an IS-3 or IS-4 shows up and with no regard for the centurion little 84mm gun and brings its 122mm to bear on the lightly armored British medium tanks.

    Also you do realise that the lack of a stabilzer does not mean that you cannot fire acurately but just that you cannot fire acuratly while moving thus tanks without stabilizers would stop to fire and when standing still they would have better acuracy than tanks with early stabilizers.

    Another thing to mention is that the centurion had only 76mm frontal hull armor and it was rather poorly sloped at around 50 degrees and is therefoe inferior to the panther in terms of protection.
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    Post  Walther von Oldenburg Thu Apr 05, 2018 2:40 pm

    T-54/55 was the best tank in the world hands down, nothing was even comparable until M60 and Chieftain showed up and by then T-64 was already in production

    The IS series was also decent even in mid 70s.

    Soviet tank quality > the rest of the world tank quality
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    Post  GarryB Fri Apr 06, 2018 1:44 am

    But surely it is much fairer to compare a 52 ton Centurion with a 32 ton T-34 and a T-54 36 ton tank and not the 46 ton IS-3.

    After all western propaganda tells us that the Centurion was the first main battle tank... except you could probably argue that the T-34 and T-54 fit that description just as well...

    Just like western propaganda states that the FN MAG was the first GPMG when the MG42 could be better described as a portable weapon and a fixed position weapon...

    Amusing they don't consider the PKM to be a GPMG either...

    Of course the IFV and the smoothbore tank gun and the assault rifle were silly ideas until adopted in the west...
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    Post  Vann7 Fri Apr 06, 2018 4:09 am

    Why so many accidents in Russia /Russia buildings fires ,Is One of the most Important Topics to discuss
    about Russia.  and for Pure Politics reasons ,is being censored somehow the discussions and my Topics
    moved to this hidden place in Russia forums.. and also censored in Russia media too.. very little coverage
    is given...

    For the people not aware of this ,

    Russia is officially under a nation wide terror attacks  
    Just months before the FIFA 2018 and more fires happening in Russia malls and buildings
    in one week than in all 2017.

    April 5 2017
    Russia: Huge Fire Tears Through Tyumen Toy Store


    From the video comments..



    Hurvey Lykems
    8 hours ago
    Why is everything on fire in russia.  


    This is what ? the 10th fire in two weeks?  No

    People can mark my words...
    This will going to get ALOT WORSE ,and the worse thing of all ,
    That Russia is not prepared to deal with  No   . for its very abysmal low
    security ,government supervision and quality controls and terrible managing and leadership.

    With FIFA 2018 , i have been saying since last year ,how Catastrophic Mistake
    Putin was doing in hosting a wold wide sports event in 12 cities ,when Russia
    is in the Brink of a world war 3, and the Brilliant Putin ,allows entry of anyone to Russia
    without a passport ,just with a fan sports ID they build on internet..

    What can go wrong?  Rolling Eyes
    Putin trying to promote their nation image through Olympics , and their
    very power enemies in NATO trying to humiliate Russia and sabotage the Tourism ?

    The enormous Colossus economic cost in Security , that will be protecting 12 cities and receiving 350,000 visitors
    to the stadiums and up to 2-3 millions internal visitors ,that will be attending the restaurants and sports
    bars around it.. will outpace the benefits of this.. This does not include the fist fights that will happen.. and Riots
    everywhere..  of CIA/Mi6/MOSAD/SOROS/Ukraine/ Poland/Baltics/Middle east and african terrorist
    that could be hired to cause BIG BIG TROUBLES in Russia. Thousands of nazi Ukranians Ultra nationalist on payrol
    by CIA alone will be a very huge problem for security of Russia.

    So you heard it ,here first...'

    The entire world cup ,security will be a disaster..

    Sochi olympics alone required 55,000 police officers security.. imagine now 12 cities ,
    instead of one ?  Shocked and in Sochi it was possible to seal the city ,for its location.. but Russia
    will not be able to do that in 12 cities.

    So what could go wrong?
    This is the kind of attacks Russia will need to deal..

    Targets to attack.
    1)Shopping malls
    2)Gasoline stations
    3)Schools ,ISIS infiltrations
    4) Tourist places
    5) Museums.. very important target.
    6) Biological attacks
    7)chemical attacks
    8)Riots
    9)Car ramming.. like DICE.. Cars used as weapons to
    kill hundreds of civilians in tourist zones..
    10)thousands of ISIS cells can infiltrate in Russian cities ,thanks to Putin idiotic obsession
    to Sports.. in suicide missions..
    11)Plane "accidents" significantly increased
    12)Restaurants fast foods ,poisoned
    13)terrorist drone attacks ,(infiltrating drones inside Russia with explosives)
    14)private planes used as missiles (just like WTC 911 inside job attacks)
    15) IED bombs in public places

    They also can use the traditions in Russia , to even target civilians..
    like touching statues noses , for "good luck" , what if a biological agent
    is infiltrated and spray on this zones ,to create a mass biological terror attack?


    Probably in the end if Putin image destroyed and he exposed as the mediocre leader he is
    and demanded to resign for incompetence will not be a bad thing..

    Russians needs Leaders ,that can be 3-4 steps ahead of their enemies..
    and not 3-4 steps behind. waiting "Accidents" to happen ,or people to die
    to do something about it. Hopeful ,im wrong..and Putin will stop being Putin ,and will change
    and take very seriously the security of Russia ,and more than anything to STOP pretending
    that the west is not at war with Russia. and NOT underestimate their enemies..
    but im skeptic he will change.

    FIFA 2018 have not started , and already Russia in many fire incidents across all Russia
    as if was a warzone..  and the sad part .. that this was all seen coming for me and can't
    do anything about it ,to fix incompetence of the Russian Government that is responsible for Security of Russia..  
    and to make things worse , People defend Russia Government ,and any fires are declared
    "Accidents" , ohh this happens everywhere.. look at this statistics..the usual people will say.   No

    FIFA 2018 will be a huge Trojan Horse for the west to attack Russia..
    Is insanity to host this event ,when the west and east is close to a world war 3.
    Only in Putin Fantasy world ,he can dream of "convincing its enemies" to stop their war
    against Russia ,just because Russia host a sport event.

    I will have never ever hosted any more Olympics after Sochi ,to try to "improve relations" with the west.
    If my Country was already on the brink of a world war 3 with the west..[u] This FIFA 2018 ,will be a BIG invitation
    for all those NATO Globalist elites that loves to hates Russia to hire troublemakers and terrorist ,to hit Russia ,destroy
    the nation and its image as a safe place and its tourism and humiliate Putin..

    But hopefully im wrong but nothing happens.. but my logic tells me.. this is a major blunder Putin is taking with this Olympics.. If Putin was not an idiot ,he will Better take those $12 billions that will cost the 12 stadiums and invest it instead in Russia space program. Something that can really influence ,on a permanent way..  not a temporary event of two weeks.

    My proposition is a Thread in [Russia] discussion forum..
    with all the fires /terror attacks of Russia ,day by day.. a well documented
    terrorist attack/"Accidents"/criminal negligence list by day ..so that the skeptics
    see with their own eyes.. there is really something very wrong with Russia Government
    leadership ,managing ,supervision ,security ,prevention of accidents policies and quality controls.
    immo the monumental job in security will be need during this FIFA event ,the economic cost vs the
    gains will not be worth of it.
    .
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    Post  GarryB Sat Apr 07, 2018 9:05 am

    Sorry Vann, stopped actually reading your posts quite some time ago... if you don't understand why look up the story of the boy who cried wolf...

    Fires happen... there is nothing at all you can do to prevent that... there are plenty of things you can do to minimise the risk and reduce the cost of those fires but fires happen and calling it terrorism doesn't change anything... you sound like a western media outlet trying to drum up interest in a story where there is no actual story...
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    Talking bollocks thread #2 - Page 10 Empty Re: Talking bollocks thread #2

    Post  kvs Sat Apr 07, 2018 4:32 pm

    This is what happens when a discussion where numbers of incidences and comparative statistics are central are not
    included. Instead we have pure speculation blather. Much like talking about a budget without every bringing up a
    single number (I actually recall Canadian news media putting out such crap pieces of "news").
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    Talking bollocks thread #2 - Page 10 Empty Re: Talking bollocks thread #2

    Post  Vann7 Mon Apr 09, 2018 6:38 pm

    Even though i consider Putin policies in Syria , the most correct ones he could take..
    Very few people understand what is the root of the problem in this Syria,Ukraine,Georgia ,Sanctions war
    from US and Europe.. This problems Russia face are directly consequence of the WRONG short sight policies of Putin
    since he came to power in 2000.  

    Since Putin came to power.. All he have been doing is to turn Russia into a Saudi Arabia of Asia while modernizing
    its army and in promoting agriculture ,victory parades and sports.. this is Putin major focus.. and thats it..and try to use their energy business to create a monopoly and influence Europe with cheap gas discounts..
    In other words ,Putin goals have been focused ,in an economy , that is more comparable to third world nations...
    that focus in commodities ,mining ,agriculture and sports.  And then leaving Americans to totally dominate the world
    uncontested , by dominating in the most popular modern technology Business ,more interesting space program ,and allowing Americans to recruit the developed world (Europe,Japan,south korea,taiwan) into their orbit.

    So Putin never understood how to counter Americans.. and probably still not completely clear..
    Americans with jews help created their System ..ie.. NATO,UNited Nations,Central Bank,Internet,the PC world,the Entertainment lead..Facebook,Youtube.. hollywood.. that is innovative business ,all those things were created not by coincidence.. this means that the Americans were far far away more organized.. and they all had a clear goal to develop and world empire.. That is US government in alliance with the Billionaire elite and their private business.. they all worked together to make United States the most influential country in the world...

    So people understand what is the space race... but if i speak about a race for Influence.. it will be better that term..
    because it will reveal exactly what they doing.. a race for influence of the world. and not just a space race.but much more.. this is what American have been doing.  So Putin should have realized ,that in that American Global order ,will be no place for Russia.. as a sovereign nation... this should have been more than clear ,after NATO expansion towards the east. after Yugoeslavia wars.. after Chechen wars ,that Putin himself is on record saying American embassy was aiding the terrorist.. Georgia war..in 2006.. etc etc etc.  So what putin did? to solve the increasing threat of Americans towards Russia and attempt to bypass their interest? modernize their army ,develop hypersonic weapons and victory parades..  Rolling Eyes    

    So instead of Putin making an alliance with private business to coordinate in which direction develop Russia...
    to counter American influence in the world. He just somehow though that the west will allow him ,to make a lot of money with europe in peace ,threatening their own system. Laughing  So Americans creates a System.. a world order. Russia totally refuse to compete.. and just focus in their own stuff.. So now Russia is facing in Ukraine,Syria... the consequences for ignoring Americans race for world domination..and the worse part of all ,is that it doesn't look that there will be a way out of this mess ,short sight policies of Putin.. other than a world war 3.

    Because it was Putin decision to depend on energy business ,the most important reason for Americans invasion on Ukraine and Syria. to block Russia (Gasprom) energy business with Europe. anyone see this? a pipeline war ,this is what Syria is,but also a road to IRAN.. and why IRAN is important ? again energy.. and because taking control of iran will allow NATO to close the encirclement of Russia.

    But what will have happened if Russia had business that could influence A LOT ukrainians young generations?
    Will the Euromaidan have happened if Russia was landing in the moon with humans already? and had a very good
    entertainment industry ,that Ukraine young people loved?  NO.. Everyone in Ukraine will be protesting for Joining
    Russia and NOT for joining the EU.. anyone see this?

    Talking bollocks thread #2 - Page 10 W1siZiIsInVwbG9hZHMvcGxhY2VfaW1hZ2VzLzU5MDg4YTViZTI0MWY5ZGYyZV9JTUdfNjEzMy5KUEciXSxbInAiLCJ0aHVtYiIsIngzOTA-Il0sWyJwIiwiY29udmVydCIsIi1xdWFsaXR5IDgxIC1hdXRvLW9yaWVudCJdXQ

    Darth Vader statue replaces Lenin monument in Ukraine - video
    https://www.theguardian.com/film/video/2015/oct/23/darth-vader-statue-lenin-monument-ukraine-video

    Americans fully understand how to influence young generations.. in the west.. Putin have no clue.
    Putin promotes outdated culture of the past.. for "patriotism" , the traditional music of their ancestors..
    instead of reinventing Russia into a modern culture.. Russia live in the past glories.. Americans live in the present..
    they reinvent their culture with their own modern innovative business. So American culture (hollywood,gaming industry,comic ) influence Europe and Russians.. but Russian culture DOES NOT influence Americans or Europe..

    check how Americans influence Russia.. comic con ..
    This is American culture event.. IN RUSSIA..


    What Russia have to influence americans ?..


    Talking bollocks thread #2 - Page 10 Picard-facepalm

    So what is the message Putin sends the world and specially Europe..
    Yes Russians are modern.. look..Russians can have fun.. (with american music) Laughing
    Don't follow American system..pleaaaase we bed you, (weakness) dont do it.. (even when we do it).
    Americans says their culture and influence (leadership) is the best..
    Putin says.. yes American influence (leadership) the best.. but please don't be unfair to us.   No  


    RUSSIA Government BIGGEST issue. is Leadership/influence issues..
    Begging the west to be nice.. is abysmally wrong..
    worship of the past glories so much ,and past culture.. wrong.

    So Russia government don't compete.. with the western influence.. don't organize (as american do)
    with all their private business. The west have (mainstream media,entertainment industry, technology industry)
    all coordinated to promote American Empire and leadership.. havent you seen how all American movies,
    shows them saving the world? and saving it? lol1

    So what could go wrong? WHen Americans influence everyone with its culture and modern innovative business
    and Russia influence NO ONE..with its culture in the west?
    perhaps.. Russia isolation from the world most developed countries anyone? No

    Russia promotes the glorious past..the traditions ,while americans promotes a modern evolving developing culture..
    So americans Music ,entertainment ,video games ,movies,will always win..vs old traditions..



    So this Problem in Syria, and even Russia problems with Terrorism.. is all about  problem of Influence.
    Evil will always exist in the world.. you can't change that... but even evil people can be influenced..
    This does not means Russia needs to promote gay marriage.. lol but that Russia could  compete too in other ways.
    So Russia have a major influence problem.. this is the root of Putin and Russia problem..
    it can't influence its enemies to become closer to Russia.. so whats the result? WAR.. proxy wars.. Direct wars,,
    revolutions,civil wars,, euromaidans,, sanctions etc..

    So this is why is so sad ,and painful  to see how Americans Government is so well organized with + business alliance (with media industry, with Hollywood with video game industry + music industry) designed to promote an American empire, fully understand how to influence Russians and Europeans..with their modern innovative culture ,that is 100% based on their modern innovative business. but Russia government Putin.. does not know how to influence the west.
    Why is important to influence Europe? To disband NATO... Whether anyone likes Europe or not ,what they doing.
    Russia needs to influence Europe.. So to remove american military bases from there that threatens Russia own existence. and those military bases is also another form of intimidation. and control. nothing can be more influential
    (albeit in a negative way,...fear) than having tanks patrolling european cities.. sending a message if you dont
    follow our empire ,we will overthrow your government.. this is Mafia influence.. which also works.. but is a major
    mistake americans does.. and the only reason Russia have been able to influence Europe.. because Europe knows
    Americans are dangerous for their own nations existences.. . while Russians are more respectful with them.

    So for Putin it should have been clear ,that what he is doing ,his policies ,will not achieve anything constructive..
    that is IF all he does in modernize his military and nukes..and gas discounts and that eventually Americans influence will only grow and grow and more NATO will grow at its borders..and will make it very difficult for Russia to continue its development in the world. and that americans way of Fighting Russia will be by Proxy and with sanctions. creating conflicts to force Russia to invade.. ie.. Syria.. and Serbia/Moldova/Iran/Venezuela will be next..

    is so Fucking Obvious for me... so clear ..so in your face.. that if Russia did have a modern Leader ,NOT PUTIN..
    that was Patriotic..and Understood.. how Ridiculous Incredibly Important... is for Russia to compete with Americans
    in a race for influence.. that if Russia was Very very influential nation in the west.. it will have been IMPOSSIBLE
    for Americans to sanction Russia.   Idea

    1)If Russia was influential.. the Ukraine color revolution will have not been possible..
    2)if Russia did not depended on Oil and gas its economy , the Syrian war will not have been happened.. and only
    Israel will be alone in that..
    3)if Russia was landing in the moon with humans , Then Russia will gain a tremendous influence with American Government.. it will be impossible to NOT cooperate with Russia in that..
    4)If Russia was developing innovative technology that the entire world wants. and nobody else have an alternative
    to it... then it will make Russia so influential.. that Europe will realize.. they don't need to follow anymore the American system. and move towards the Russian orbit..


    This means that Russia needs to Privatize its energy business , sell the Government part to Europe. France,Germany,Austria ,ITaly ,and  focus instead in Business that are Sanctions proof..for the simple reason that the west also needs and like.. like a space ambitions program.. that americans love so much.. and developing a safe secure knew internet.. wouldnt that be amazing? and a real alternative to America IT industry and Software and PC Industry. alternative to American entertainment industry.. The government don't need to make business at all .all it needs to do is to PROMOTE this kind of nation development in the private industry and with promises the Government will support it economically by becoming their client. Russia needs to influence the west.. specially Europe.. but also
    US too.. to convince them that they will be much better with Russia as ally than fighting it... but if not.. to break US domination and influence in the world. Russia could even create an alternative to Oil and Gas.. to break Middle east terrorist sponsor nations and break US dollar.. A Solar energy revolution why not? and other forms of safe clean energy.. but Putin is so clueless of what he is doing... Allowing Americans to dominate in world influence without contest.. No  Is not victory parades or sports how Russia will impress Americans.. but with modern innovative business. and a real ambitions space race.

    The cold war /hot war.. is nothing more than a war of Influence..
    American Cold war use innovative business leadership to influence the world to not follow Russia.,
    Hot war use military force ,proxy wars to impose its will. And this is the only way Putin influence Americans with force.. but forgets about the soft influence.

    And Russia doing everything to NOT COMPETE with US influence of their innovative business.
    and Americans in desperation for not controlling the world at the speed they want..
    doing everything to destroy all their gained  influenced with their open support of terrorism and endless wars.

    So is the choice between USA ,a very modern innovative culture and business nation ,that is very corrupt and evil
    versus a very obsolete business economy and very obsolete culture and leader but that promote family and christians values..   No

    But unfortunately Putin strategy will not work.  And China sinking the dollar ,is not clear that will work.. either..
    because does neither do much to counter american huge influence in the world of their culture and business.. China needs a democracy with freedom of expression and not make the mistakes of Russia of obsession with the past and sports and focus in a modern innovative culture. that live always in the present.  ncourage Russian business to invest
    in entertainment industry heavily and develop and innovative and modern culture.

    Russia under Putin will never disband NATO ,unless he wins a world war 3...
    he simply don't understand ,how to influence the west.  if he knew.. he will not be praising the soviet past.. or victory parades or Olympics ,praising their weapons.. that are need..yes but only to counter their mediocre nation influence with the west.. and focus all its energies in a very ambitious dual purpose space program for military and civilian use for outer space explorations.. but also in an innovative business economy.

    Influence and leadership are very close words.. in their meaning..  Russia have an influence problem in the world..
    a leadership problem.. and this is the reason why Americans wants to destroy Russia.. if Americans loved Russian development.. they will be seeking an alliance and not to isolate it and destroy it.. Putin promoting Christianity is not the way he will convince the west.. is Leadership (in the things that matters for the west) what Russia needs. Russia
    nuclear weapons are only needed because Russia failure to influence the west.


    Last edited by Vann7 on Mon Apr 09, 2018 9:05 pm; edited 2 times in total
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    Talking bollocks thread #2 - Page 10 Empty Re: Talking bollocks thread #2

    Post  Arctic_Fox Mon Apr 09, 2018 9:57 pm

    Vann7 wrote:Even though i consider Putin policies in Syria , the most correct ones he could take..
    Very few people understand what is the root of the problem in this Syria,Ukraine,Georgia ,Sanctions war
    from US and Europe.. This problems Russia face are directly consequence of the WRONG short sight policies of Putin
    since he came to power in 2000.  

    Since Putin came to power.. All he have been doing is to turn Russia into a Saudi Arabia of Asia while modernizing
    its army and in promoting agriculture ,victory parades and sports.. this is Putin major focus.. and thats it..and try to use their energy business to create a monopoly and influence Europe with cheap gas discounts..
    In other words ,Putin goals have been focused ,in an economy , that is more comparable to third world nations...
    that focus in commodities ,mining ,agriculture and sports.  And then leaving Americans to totally dominate the world
    uncontested , by dominating in the most popular modern technology Business ,more interesting space program ,and allowing Americans to recruit the developed world (Europe,Japan,south korea,taiwan) into their orbit.

    So Putin never understood how to counter Americans.. and probably still not completely clear..
    Americans with jews help created their System ..ie.. NATO,UNited Nations,Central Bank,Internet,the PC world,the Entertainment lead..Facebook,Youtube.. hollywood.. that is innovative business ,all those things were created not by coincidence.. this means that the Americans were far far away more organized.. and they all had a clear goal to develop and world empire.. That is US government in alliance with the Billionaire elite and their private business.. they all worked together to make United States the most influential country in the world...

    So people understand what is the space race... but if i speak about a race for Influence.. it will be better that term..
    because it will reveal exactly what they doing.. a race for influence of the world. and not just a space race.but much more.. this is what American have been doing.  So Putin should have realized ,that in that American Global order ,will be no place for Russia.. as a sovereign nation... this should have been more than clear ,after NATO expansion towards the east. after Yugoeslavia wars.. after Chechen wars ,that Putin himself is on record saying American embassy was aiding the terrorist.. Georgia war..in 2006.. etc etc etc.  So what putin did? to solve the increasing threat of Americans towards Russia and attempt to bypass their interest? modernize their army ,develop hypersonic weapons and victory parades..  Rolling Eyes    

    So instead of Putin making an alliance with private business to coordinate in which direction develop Russia...
    to counter American influence in the world. He just somehow though that the west will allow him ,to make a lot of money with europe in peace ,threatening their own system. Laughing  So Americans creates a System.. a world order. Russia totally refuse to compete.. and just focus in their own stuff.. So now Russia is facing in Ukraine,Syria... the consequences for ignoring Americans race for world domination..and the worse part of all ,is that it doesn't look that there will be a way out of this mess ,short sight policies of Putin.. other than a world war 3.

    Because it was Putin decision to depend on energy business ,the most important reason for Americans invasion on Ukraine and Syria. to block Russia (Gasprom) energy business with Europe. anyone see this? a pipeline war ,this is what Syria is,but also a road to IRAN.. and why IRAN is important ? again energy.. and because taking control of iran will allow NATO to close the encirclement of Russia.

    But what will have happened if Russia had business that could influence A LOT ukrainians young generations?
    Will the Euromaidan have happened if Russia was landing in the moon with humans already? and had a very good
    entertainment industry ,that Ukraine young people loved?  NO.. Everyone in Ukraine will be protesting for Joining
    Russia and NOT for joining the EU.. anyone see this?

    Talking bollocks thread #2 - Page 10 W1siZiIsInVwbG9hZHMvcGxhY2VfaW1hZ2VzLzU5MDg4YTViZTI0MWY5ZGYyZV9JTUdfNjEzMy5KUEciXSxbInAiLCJ0aHVtYiIsIngzOTA-Il0sWyJwIiwiY29udmVydCIsIi1xdWFsaXR5IDgxIC1hdXRvLW9yaWVudCJdXQ

    Darth Vader statue replaces Lenin monument in Ukraine - video
    https://www.theguardian.com/film/video/2015/oct/23/darth-vader-statue-lenin-monument-ukraine-video

    Americans fully understand how to influence young generations.. in the west.. Putin have no clue.
    Putin promotes outdated culture of the past.. for "patriotism" , the traditional music of their ancestors..
    instead of reinventing Russia into a modern culture.. Russia live in the past glories.. Americans live in the present..
    they reinvent their culture with their own modern innovative business. So American culture (hollywood,gaming industry,comic ) influence Europe and Russians.. but Russian culture DOES NOT influence Americans or Europe..

    check how Americans influence Russia.. comic con ..
    This is American culture event.. IN RUSSIA..


    What Russia have to influence americans ?..


    Talking bollocks thread #2 - Page 10 Picard-facepalm

    So what is the message Putin sends the world and specially Europe..
    Yes Russians are modern.. look..Russians can have fun.. (with american music)  Laughing
    Don't follow American system..pleaaaase we bed you, (weakness)  dont do it.. (even when we do it).
    Americans says their culture and influence (leadership) is the best..
    Putin says.. yes American influence (leadership) the best.. but please don't be unfair to us.   No  


    RUSSIA Government BIGGEST issue. is Leadership/influence issues..
    Begging the west to be nice.. is abysmally wrong..
    worship of the past glories so much ,and past culture.. wrong.

    So Russia government don't compete.. with the western influence.. don't organize (as american do)
    with all their private business. The west have (mainstream media,entertainment industry, technology industry)
    all coordinated to promote American Empire and leadership.. havent you seen how all American movies,
    shows them saving the world? and saving it?  lol1

    So what could go wrong? WHen Americans influence everyone with its culture and modern innovative business
    and Russia influence NO ONE..with its culture in the west?
    perhaps.. Russia isolation from the world most developed countries anyone? No

    Russia promotes the glorious past..the traditions ,while americans promotes a modern evolving developing culture..
    So americans Music ,entertainment ,video games ,movies,will always win..vs old traditions..



    So this Problem in Syria, and even Russia problems with Terrorism.. is all about  problem of Influence.
    Evil will always exist in the world.. you can't change that... but even evil people can be influenced..
    This does not means Russia needs to promote gay marriage.. lol but that Russia could  compete too in other ways.
    So Russia have a major influence problem.. this is the root of Putin and Russia problem..
    it can't influence its enemies to become closer to Russia.. so whats the result? WAR.. proxy wars.. Direct wars,,
    revolutions,civil wars,, euromaidans,, sanctions etc..

    So this is why is so sad ,and painful  to see how Americans Government is so well organized with + business alliance (with media industry, with Hollywood with video game industry + music industry) designed to promote an American empire, fully understand how to influence Russians and Europeans..with their modern innovative culture ,that is 100% based on their modern innovative business. but Russia government Putin.. does not know how to influence the west.
    Why is important to influence Europe? To disband NATO... Whether anyone likes Europe or not ,what they doing.
    Russia needs to influence Europe.. So to remove american military bases from there that threatens Russia own existence. and those military bases is also another form of intimidation. and control. nothing can be more influential
    (albeit in a negative way,...fear) than having tanks patrolling european cities.. sending a message if you dont
    follow our empire ,we will overthrow your government.. this is Mafia influence.. which also works.. but is a major
    mistake americans does.. and the only reason Russia have been able to influence Europe.. because Europe knows
    Americans are dangerous for their own nations existences.. . while Russians are more respectful with them.

    So for Putin it should have been clear ,that what he is doing ,his policies ,will not achieve anything constructive..
    that is IF all he does in modernize his military and nukes..and gas discounts and that eventually Americans influence will only grow and grow and more NATO will grow at its borders..and will make it very difficult for Russia to continue its development in the world. and that americans way of Fighting Russia will be by Proxy and with sanctions. creating conflicts to force Russia to invade.. ie.. Syria.. and Serbia/Moldova/Iran/Venezuela will be next..

    is so Fucking Obvious for me... so clear ..so in your face.. that if Russia did have a modern Leader ,NOT PUTIN..
    that was Patriotic..and Understood.. how Ridiculous Incredibly Important... is for Russia to compete with Americans
    in a race for influence.. that if Russia was Very very influential nation in the west.. it will have been IMPOSSIBLE
    for Americans to sanction Russia.   Idea

    1)If Russia was influential.. the Ukraine color revolution will have not been possible..
    2)if Russia did not depended on Oil and gas its economy , the Syrian war will not have been happened.. and only
    Israel will be alone in that..
    3)if Russia was landing in the moon with humans , Then Russia will gain a tremendous influence with American Government.. it will be impossible to NOT cooperate with Russia in that..
    4)If Russia was developing innovative technology that the entire world wants. and nobody else have an alternative
    to it... then it will make Russia so influential.. that Europe will realize.. they don't need to follow anymore the American system. and move towards the Russian orbit..


    This means that Russia needs to Privatize its energy business , sell the Government part to Europe. France,Germany,Austria ,ITaly ,and  focus instead in Business that are Sanctions proof..for the simple reason that the west also needs and like.. like a space ambitions program.. that americans love so much.. and developing a safe secure knew internet.. wouldnt that be amazing? and a real alternative to America IT industry and Software and PC Industry. alternative to American entertainment industry.. The government don't need to make business at all .all it needs to do is to PROMOTE this kind of nation development in the private industry and with promises the Government will support it economically by becoming their client. Russia needs to influence the west.. specially Europe.. but also
    US too.. to convince them that they will be much better with Russia as ally than fighting it... but if not.. to break US domination and influence in the world. Russia could even create an alternative to Oil and Gas.. to break Middle east terrorist sponsor nations and break US dollar.. A Solar energy revolution why not? and other forms of safe clean energy.. but Putin is so clueless of what he is doing... Allowing Americans to dominate in world influence without contest.. No  Is not victory parades or sports how Russia will impress Americans.. but with modern innovative business. and a real ambitions space race.

    The cold war /hot war.. is nothing more than a war of Influence..
    American Cold war use innovative business leadership to influence the world to not follow Russia.,
    Hot war use military force ,proxy wars to impose its will. And this is the only way Putin influence Americans with force.. but forgets about the soft influence.

    And Russia doing everything to NOT COMPETE with US influence of their innovative business.
    and Americans in desperation for not controlling the world at the speed they want..
    doing everything to destroy all their gained  influenced with their open support of terrorism and endless wars.

    So is the choice between USA ,a very modern innovative culture and business nation ,that is very corrupt and evil
    versus a very obsolete business economy and very obsolete culture and leader but that promote family and christians values..   No

    But unfortunately Putin strategy will not work.  And China sinking the dollar ,is not clear that will work.. either..
    because does neither do much to counter american huge influence in the world of their culture and business.. China needs a democracy with freedom of expression and not make the mistakes of Russia of obsession with the past and sports and focus in a modern innovative culture. that live always in the present.  ncourage Russian business to invest
    in entertainment industry heavily and develop and innovative and modern culture.

    Russia under Putin will never disband NATO ,unless he wins a world war 3...
    he simply don't understand ,how to influence the west.  if he knew.. he will not be praising the soviet past.. or victory parades or Olympics ,praising their weapons.. that are need..yes but only to counter their mediocre nation influence with the west.. and focus all its energies in a very ambitious dual purpose space program for military and civilian use for outer space explorations.. but also in an innovative business economy.

    Influence and leadership are very close words.. in their meaning..  Russia have an influence problem in the world..
    a leadership problem.. and this is the reason why Americans wants to destroy Russia.. if Americans loved Russian development.. they will be seeking an alliance and not to isolate it and destroy it.. Putin promoting Christianity is not the way he will convince the west.. is Leadership (in the things that matters for the west) what Russia needs. Russia
    nuclear weapons are only needed because Russia failure to influence the west.

    You know culture it's something beyond that toxic crap that US make.

    The US it's a very young country, and all it's culture is based on modern stuff, so what's so good about it anyway?

    a bunch of super hero satured comics?
    Loud cars that can't even turn properly at the risk of flipping over?
    Junk food that make it's own population obese?
    A cinema industry that disseminates lies and propaganda in it's awful superficial movies?
    Gaming industry it's pretty scattered around the world, sony and nintendo are japanese, only microsoft is american, but if you're talking about shitty first person shooters about US killing russians,arabs, chineses, aliens and zombies... so yeah, they have a lot of that crap.
    Nerdy stuff?
    And that music industry putting shit on young people's heads.

    I rather see Russia develop it's own modern culture through tradition than try to copy all that superficial crap that US spreads around the world.


    Last edited by Arctic_Fox on Mon Apr 09, 2018 11:46 pm; edited 1 time in total

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