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    Russian Navy: Status & News #4

    GunshipDemocracy
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    Post  GunshipDemocracy Thu Apr 25, 2019 1:16 am

    SeigSoloyvov wrote: The Subs, I can see a few of the Akula's sure, heck I can even see the logic for the Oscar's but the Sierra's no, even the guys who operate those subs said there is no point. I don't see why people on here argue about keeping them in service.


    the first reaction for refurbishing/modernization news as far as I member was: whaat? why to put money to old designs not to build new ones?  Looks like folks dont like changes lol1 lol1 lol1



    Gazputin wrote:Kirov cruisers will be replaced by SSGNs … submersible guided missile "cruisers" as the Russians call them …
    … as usual with Russians … total pragmatists

    meh, Liders. They look like cruisers, displace like cruisers and carry more missiles then Kirovs but make no mistake: why are destroyers lol1 lol1 lol1


    Last edited by GunshipDemocracy on Thu Apr 25, 2019 1:21 am; edited 1 time in total
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    Post  GunshipDemocracy Thu Apr 25, 2019 1:18 am

    PapaDragon wrote:
    Tsavo Lion wrote:Then why keep 2 of them still? They could mothball/sell them & build 2-3 more SSGNs instead! U need to have the right tool for the job!

    Because those 2 are in decent condition and scraping them would be wasteful


    you need to have some capital ships until bunch of Liders pops up. Modernization of each Kirov would be like cost on Lider, only then you get old ship with smaller capabilities.
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    Post  Guest Thu Apr 25, 2019 1:27 am

    Tsavo Lion wrote:Then why keep 2 of them still? They could mothball/sell them & build 2-3 more SSGNs instead! U need to have the right tool for the job!

    Because then they would have no capital ships in surface fleet at all almost. They would join naval powers like Peru and Mexico lol1 And they are scrapping other Kirovs coz they have issues that are too expencive to overcome for modernisation to be logical. Lazarev is nuclear disaster waiting to happen apparently.
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    Post  Guest Thu Apr 25, 2019 1:29 am

    PapaDragon wrote:
    Tsavo Lion wrote:Then why keep 2 of them still? They could mothball/sell them & build 2-3 more SSGNs instead! U need to have the right tool for the job!

    Because those 2 are in decent condition and scraping them would be wasteful

    Other 2 are in disastrous condition and spending time and money on them would be wasteful


    It's always about same two things: time and money



    And who the hell could they sell them to?


    Noone in the right mind would pay for 2 huge rust buckets with leaky reactors tbh. I would pay maybe actually, to gift them to Croatian navy...
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    Post  Big_Gazza Thu Apr 25, 2019 3:04 am

    Militarov wrote:Lazarev is nuclear disaster waiting to happen apparently.

    Adm Ushakov has a damaged reactor, not Lazarev.
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    Post  Truck Thu Apr 25, 2019 4:03 am

    B-138 Obninsk Victor III class submarine navigating in 2017 (according to George1 in the previous page implicitly decommisssioned, according to George1 in this page after learning but not enough, implicitly in the reserve since years):
    Russian Navy: Status & News #4 - Page 37 225954
    Officially reported by the Russian Navy on 23 June 2017 like performing training and combat tasks.
    pwnd pwnd pwnd
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    Post  SeigSoloyvov Thu Apr 25, 2019 8:42 am

    Big_Gazza wrote:
    Militarov wrote:Lazarev is nuclear disaster waiting to happen apparently.

    Adm Ushakov has a damaged reactor, not Lazarev.

    This is correct, Lazarev hull is just in a way to bad shape, they went inside of the ship to evaluate if it could be done or was worth it in the end they found the hull was just to far gone for them to bother with it.

    They have then since written it off.
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    Post  GarryB Thu Apr 25, 2019 11:09 am

    Well I think the news of two Kirovs being scrapped is good, because it clearly means the other two will almost certainly get minor upgrades and continue in service until there are replacements.

    Sure, people will whine about how they wont have the fire power of a brand new ship that is actually smaller and lighter, but that is not actually the point.

    The two remaining Kirovs have the fire power to make any opponent think twice and with the 20 Granits replaced with 80 missile tubes for a range of land attack and subsonic, supersonic, and hypersonic anti ship missiles then it will be even more formidable... if they can upgrade the SAM missile battery to newer more modern weapons that would be good, but even the original SAM defences were formidable anyway...

    The best thing is that it shows they are committed to a blue water navy, that they are clearly going to start building bigger ships to eventually replace the scrapped Kirovs, but they are not going to throw money away when it doesn't make sense for them to... that last factor means they are head and shoulders in a better place than the US Navy.
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    Post  Isos Thu Apr 25, 2019 10:28 pm

    Kuznetsov and Sovs are small players compare to this one hahaha

    Smetlivy is making clouds hahaha lol1

    https://mobile.twitter.com/Capt_Navy/status/1121473338117885952

    Russian Navy: Status & News #4 - Page 37 D5bgca10
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    Post  Guest Thu Apr 25, 2019 11:11 pm

    Big_Gazza wrote:
    Militarov wrote:Lazarev is nuclear disaster waiting to happen apparently.

    Adm Ushakov has a damaged reactor, not Lazarev.

    My bad you are right on that one.
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    Post  dino00 Thu Apr 25, 2019 11:17 pm

    "Gadfly" for pride: the Navy modernizes small rocket ships
    IRA project 12341 Soviet-built remain in the ranks


    Aleksey Ramm Bogdan Stepovoy


    The Navy adopted a program for the return to service of small rocket ships (MRK) Ovod , told Izvestia at the Main Command of the Navy. In the course of work at the ISCs, they will replace engines, radio electronics and install modern weapons . Formally, the ISCs are ships of the coastal zone, but earlier they even went successfully to the Mediterranean and South China Seas. Updated and re-armed "Gadfly" will be able to deliver rocket attacks on a potential enemy no worse than destroyers or frigates .

    Repair to complete
    Modernization of the project 12341 "Gadfly" will affect almost all the key systems of the ship , explained in the Main Command of the Navy. RTOs will install modern fire control systems, radar stations, communication systems, more efficient weaponry, as well as more economical and powerful diesel engines .

    The “gadflies” that have undergone modernization will be reequipped with Kh-35 missiles - these are subsonic low-altitude munitions with active homing , equipped with high-explosive fragmentation warhead, a source in the Defense Ministry told Izvestia. These missiles are capable of hitting targets at a distance of up to 260 km .

    HELP "IZVESTIA"
    Now the Navy includes 12 small rocket ships of the project 12341 "Gadfly". At the Baltic Fleet, they are consolidated into the 36th brigade of missile boats, which include the Zyb, Geyser, Passat and Downpour. In the 41st brigade of the Black Sea Fleet - "Mirage" and "Shtil". In the Northern Fleet in the 7th Brigade of the Protection of the Water Area (OVR) bear the service "Iceberg" and "Rassvet". In the Pacific Fleet, the "Gadflies" are consolidated into the 114th IAD. There are collected "Smerch", "Frost", "Frost" and "Spill." The existing ships became part of the fleet from 1986 to 1992, with the exception of “Calm” and “Iceberg”, built earlier - in the late 1970s.

    Work on the modernization of "Gadfly" has already begun . In April of this year, Kingisepp Machine-Building Plant completed the repair of the main engine compartment of the Rassvet MRK. At the end of 2018, Iceberg and Geyser engines were put in order there. In Kamchatka, Smerch MRK is currently under repair. The Zyb IRC of the Baltic Fleet, which has long been unmanaged, is waiting for a major overhaul of the main engine at the 33rd ship repair yard.


    ...
    In the hull of the ship with a displacement of about 700 tons, it was possible to place a full-fledged set of weapons. “Gadflies” with a length of 57 m and a width of 12 m received two launchers for six Malachite anti-ship missiles, the Titanit target radar system, electronic warfare equipment, the Osa-M anti-aircraft missile system and one AK-176 caliber artillery unit 76 mm, or two AK-725 caliber 57 mm.

    ...
    “For the Algerian Navy, three such RTOs were modernized at Russian shipyards,” Dmitry Boltenkov told Izvestia. - They received updated electronics and engines, and were also re-equipped with X-35 anti-ship missiles. This experience is useful in the future. After upgrading, domestic Vodov can get four launchers, each of which is capable of simultaneously launching four missiles. This increased the ship's volley from six to 16 rounds of ammunition

    In theory, Onyx anti-ship missiles can be installed on the ISCs. In 1982, one “Gadfly” of project 1234.7 was developed and built for testing these missiles

    https://iz.ru/872211/aleksei-ramm-bogdan-stepovoi/ovod-dlia-gordosti-vmf-moderniziruet-malye-raketnye-korabli

    Navy is going for numbers, kh-35 is good, but Onix will be great.
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    Post  Isos Fri Apr 26, 2019 12:10 am

    Kh-35 is for saturating adverse air defence. 16 per ship is a huge amount.

    And as they will support bigger ships equiped with uksk, they will fire first so that enemy use most of its long range missiles against them and supersonic missiles will come in a second wave to destroy what is left and face only short range missiles which have no chance to hit them.

    Pretty good and cheap move to increase anti ship weaponery. Better than Bal-E anyway.


    I wonder if they will go for Tor as a replacement of outdated Osa.
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    Post  PapaDragon Sat Apr 27, 2019 3:02 am


    New naval base in Novorosiysk will be completed by the end of the year but it looks like it's already up and running.

    Bykov patrol ships and Kilo subs have recently been stationed there. This is their home base. Buyans will probably be operating from there as well.

    More photos in link:

    https://sdelanounas.ru/blogs/119487/

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    Post  verkhoturye51 Sat Apr 27, 2019 10:52 am

    New naval base in Novorosiysk will be completed by the end of the year but it looks like it's already up and running.

    Wow, I was aware of modernization of Kaspian sea base, but not this one. Do you have any extra info?

    It looks like Novorossiysk is a secondary base in Black sea, after Sevastopol. In case main base gets a hit or is cut off, they have an alternative. Plus protection of Russian mainland in the Krasnodar region and patrolling base for eastern Black sea.
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    Post  Hole Sat Apr 27, 2019 11:03 am

    Russian Navy: Status & News #4 - Page 37 000140
    Russian Navy: Status & News #4 - Page 37 000517
    Russian Navy: Status & News #4 - Page 37 002411
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    Post  Hole Sat Apr 27, 2019 11:04 am

    Russian Navy: Status & News #4 - Page 37 002610
    Russian Navy: Status & News #4 - Page 37 002710
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    Post  hoom Sat Apr 27, 2019 2:45 pm

    It looks like Novorossiysk is a secondary base in Black sea, after Sevastopol.
    It has been being developed since 2003 as a new primary BSF base since Ukraine had indicated they wouldn't renew the Sevastopol lease which was due to expire in 2017.
    But then they did renew it in 2010 for another 25yrs so it went on backburner.

    Then the coup, secession of Crimea and accession to Russia -> awkward situation of having 2 major bases on a small enclosed sea.
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    Post  Isos Sat Apr 27, 2019 3:17 pm

    hoom wrote:
    It looks like Novorossiysk is a secondary base in Black sea, after Sevastopol.
    It has been being developed since 2003 as a new primary BSF base since Ukraine had indicated they wouldn't renew the Sevastopol lease which was due to expire in 2017.
    But then they did renew it in 2010 for another 25yrs so it went on backburner.

    Then the coup, secession of Crimea and accession to Russia -> awkward situation of having 2 major bases on a small enclosed sea.

    Use it as a civilian port.
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    Post  kvs Sat Apr 27, 2019 4:33 pm

    Isos wrote:Kuznetsov and Sovs are small players compare to this one hahaha

    Smetlivy is making clouds hahaha lol1

    https://mobile.twitter.com/Capt_Navy/status/1121473338117885952

    https://i.servimg.com/u/f71/19/35/56/92/d5bgca10.jpg

    Pathetic photoshop. Four emission plumes starting at deck level. What rubbish.
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    Post  PapaDragon Sat Apr 27, 2019 5:11 pm

    Isos wrote:
    hoom wrote:
    It looks like Novorossiysk is a secondary base in Black sea, after Sevastopol.
    It has been being developed since 2003 as a new primary BSF base since Ukraine had indicated they wouldn't renew the Sevastopol lease which was due to expire in 2017.
    But then they did renew it in 2010 for another 25yrs so it went on backburner.

    Then the coup, secession of Crimea and accession to Russia -> awkward situation of having 2 major bases on a small enclosed sea.

    Use it as a civilian port.


    Why the hell would they use purpose built military base as civilian port?

    Is there some massive downsizing of fleet that they haven't announced yet? I assumed they were trying to rebuild the fleet?
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    Post  Hole Sat Apr 27, 2019 5:32 pm

    Two bases are better then one. Wink

    There is already a large civilian port in Novorossijsk.
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    Post  Isos Sat Apr 27, 2019 5:44 pm



    Because they planed only one.

    Black sea fleet can fit in one port. Even more when smetlivy is removed from service and scrapped.

    Military port are expensive to maintain.


    Last edited by Isos on Sat Apr 27, 2019 10:59 pm; edited 1 time in total
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    Post  PapaDragon Sat Apr 27, 2019 6:55 pm

    Isos wrote:
    PapaDragon wrote:
    Isos wrote:
    hoom wrote:
    It looks like Novorossiysk is a secondary base in Black sea, after Sevastopol.
    It has been being developed since 2003 as a new primary BSF base since Ukraine had indicated they wouldn't renew the Sevastopol lease which was due to expire in 2017.
    But then they did renew it in 2010 for another 25yrs so it went on backburner.

    Then the coup, secession of Crimea and accession to Russia -> awkward situation of having 2 major bases on a small enclosed sea.

    Use it as a civilian port.


    Why the hell would they use purpose built military base as civilian port?

    Is there some massive downsizing of fleet that they haven't announced yet? I assumed they were trying to rebuild the fleet?

    Because they planed only one.

    Black sea fleet can fit in one port. Even more when smetlivy is removed from service and scrapped.

    Military port are expensive to maintain.


    Ports are not expensive to maintain, fleet is

    Russia has dumb habbit of putting all eggs in one basket, this is welcome change
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    Post  Admin Sat Apr 27, 2019 10:40 pm

    Clean up your quote boxes and only quote to what you are responding to. Both of you have been here long enough to know better.
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    Post  Isos Sat Apr 27, 2019 10:58 pm

    Sorry. But isn't the "quote reply" automatically quoting only the part that the person we quote says and taking offwhat he quoted in its original message ?

    Sometime, rarely actualy, it does that. Maybe its a bug but it would be a nice idea to do so.

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