Russian media too jubilant lately with all the propaganda, as if they've won something themselves....
Russia better be careful in falling to the trap of extending a lifeline to a cancer patient. Propping up another oligarch in medvedchuk and whispering about a gas deal below market price as some big tantalizing gift - it's like, after all these years - the strategy is still the same. Trying the same thing and expecting different results.
If I'm an anglo strategist right now, I just sit back and laugh. Nothing would please Washington more than to recoup and re-scheme on Russia's dime as long as I get to keep most of my assets within the host. After two color revolutions with different faces under Russia's own noses you would think Putin's camp would understands the game. But then what you see is more of the same. Elections mean nothing.
The Americans are willing to use hard power and play dirty - and have shown so twice - twice their minions have sized power, and have kept a key strategic region for Russia in eternal limbo - not to mention placing major setbacks in Russia's grand strategic plans. Anglo's achieve what they want, Russia doesn't get what it needs and wants. As long as the cancer is not excised and Russia is not willing to do what it takes to excise it, not even with internal help, they're playing a losing game.
Then again, the masters (or fools) of strategic patience in Moscow know best.
Last edited by ATLASCUB on Fri Jul 26, 2019 2:35 am; edited 5 times in total
I'd wager that Russian Navy is currently browsing the catalogue of ships owned by the Ukraine looking for nicest and most expensive one or one with fanciest cargo (or both)
ATLASCUB wrote:Russian media too jubilant lately with all the propaganda, as if they've won something themselves....
Russia better be careful in falling to the trap of extending a lifeline to a cancer patient. Propping up another oligarch in medvedchuk and whispering about a gas deal below market price as some big tantalizing gift - it's like, after all these years - the strategy is still the same. Trying the same thing and expecting different results.
If I'm an anglo strategist right now, I just sit back and laugh. Nothing would please Washington more than to recoup and re-scheme on Russia's dime as long as I get to keep most of my assets within the host. After two color revolutions with different faces under Russia's own noses you would think Putin's camp would understands the game. But then what you see is more of the same. Elections mean nothing.
The Americans are willing to use hard power and play dirty - and have shown so twice - twice their minions have sized power, and have kept a key strategic region for Russia in eternal limbo - not to mention placing major setbacks in Russia's grand strategic plans. Anglo's achieve what they want, Russia doesn't get what it needs and wants. As long as the cancer is not excised and Russia is not willing to do what it takes to excise it, not even with internal help, they're playing a losing game.
Then again, the masters (or fools) of strategic patience in Moscow know best.
Where are you getting your news? My news sources indicate that Russia is about to flush Banderastan down the toilet. There is no gas deal for the period after December 2019 and there is no indication of one being negotiated. That is why Washington is pulling out all the stops to torpedo Nord Stream II. They operate on the assumption that Russia will be forced to make deal with Banderastan. It is Washington that is hoping Russia falls into some trap. But wishing is not the same as getting.
Whatever the revelations, the whole MH17 case is being forced into a BS narrative. There was no crime no matter who did it and how. MH17 was directed by Kiev ATC over an anti-aircraft missile free fire zone. This zone was in a state of full war. This is not the situation of peacetime and any shootdown is not a specific criminal act. No war crimes tribunal ever tried anyone for every civilian death. No attempt to make the MH17 incident into a war crime is not going to fly. It is just a case of collateral damage. Much clearly so than any of the Obama's drone attacks that killed 84 civilians to every 16 militants that were targeted. If Obama was not even censured in the media, then GTFO with all the hysteria and fake tears over MH17. Obama killed thousands of civilians in zones which were not at war. Then we have the brazen case of the Iran Air flight 655.
If there was a criminal act it was the Kiev ATC routing civilian airline traffic over a SAM active war zone. BTW, note all the video footage of the alleged Russian Buk being driven around in Donetsk. There is not a single image with the TAR unit. Only the TELAR unit. The latter cannot distinguish civilian aircraft and the former is required for full combat effectiveness. This proves that it was the TELAR unit obtained from the Ukrainian Army by the rebels and not some Russian system deployed just to shoot down MH17 and then move back to Russia. But even if Russia shipped fully equipped Buk units to the rebels, so f*cking what. It is a war and NATO was arming the Kiev regime by the trainload. Civilian aircraft have no business being in a war zone. And the war zone in eastern Ukraine was small enough for them to fully avoid it.
ATLASCUB wrote:Russian media too jubilant lately with all the propaganda, as if they've won something themselves....
Russia better be careful in falling to the trap of extending a lifeline to a cancer patient. Propping up another oligarch in medvedchuk and whispering about a gas deal below market price as some big tantalizing gift - it's like, after all these years - the strategy is still the same. Trying the same thing and expecting different results.
If I'm an anglo strategist right now, I just sit back and laugh. Nothing would please Washington more than to recoup and re-scheme on Russia's dime as long as I get to keep most of my assets within the host. After two color revolutions with different faces under Russia's own noses you would think Putin's camp would understands the game. But then what you see is more of the same. Elections mean nothing.
The Americans are willing to use hard power and play dirty - and have shown so twice - twice their minions have sized power, and have kept a key strategic region for Russia in eternal limbo - not to mention placing major setbacks in Russia's grand strategic plans. Anglo's achieve what they want, Russia doesn't get what it needs and wants. As long as the cancer is not excised and Russia is not willing to do what it takes to excise it, not even with internal help, they're playing a losing game.
Then again, the masters (or fools) of strategic patience in Moscow know best.
Where are you getting your news? My news sources indicate that Russia is about to flush Banderastan down the toilet. There is no gas deal for the period after December 2019 and there is no indication of one being negotiated. That is why Washington is pulling out all the stops to torpedo Nord Stream II. They operate on the assumption that Russia will be forced to make deal with Banderastan. It is Washington that is hoping Russia falls into some trap. But wishing is not the same as getting.
Maybe you have not been paying attention or paying attention to the wrong news sources, as this has been cooking for quite a while... doesn't get more clear than this however...very recent. And no, this has nothing to do with bringing Ukraine to its former self as a gas transit country. It's about the danger of stabilizing the economic situation and chaos from the previous clan without excising the cancer itself. The orange revolution was such an example - which planted the maidan seeds, as is current Georgia today. "but but but... we give them so much and they treat us like this" "Russian haters" bla bla. The anglos continue to run laps around Russians - making strategic retreats when needed. Simple as that. The destabilization of Russia's borders to contain as much as possible Russian economic growth and economic integration with its neighbors has in part succeeded. Anyone that argues otherwise is drinking too much koolaid.
Last edited by ATLASCUB on Fri Jul 26, 2019 8:53 pm; edited 1 time in total
Russia is simply maintaining their contacts and friends in Ukraine. They aren't giving any lifeline at all but simply cooperating with whatever little they have left in the country. But for all intense and purposes, Ukraine is being left out to dry, not just by Russia either.
miketheterrible wrote:Russia is simply maintaining their contacts and friends in Ukraine. They aren't giving any lifeline at all but simply cooperating with whatever little they have left in the country. But for all intense and purposes, Ukraine is being left out to dry, not just by Russia either.
Considering that Russia is still Ukraine's largest trading partner that is already a lifeline in itself that many have argued should have been cut a longggggg time ago. What is being discussed, is more cherry on top. You're sugarcoating it to put it mildly.
If by others you mean the EU, Germany and France mainly.... These two are opportunist, who happily excuse their strategic moves behind the big bully "the Americans", when it suits them ("we're forced", "we're dragged" "reluctant but must"). It's a double game that doesn't fool anyone unless you want to naively believe them. These two are smart enough to understand that they must protect and maintain their engine (Germany) running smoothly (russian gas). Thus it's in their interest to push Russia once in a while, but not push them out too far out. Keep Russia engaged, while distanced.
The EAEU is a threat to the EU. They threw a wrench at Ukraine to stop it early in its tracks - they've been successful at that, along with the U.S. They would happily do it twice if given the chance. Just weaken Belarus just enough and watch what happens. When they meet resistance they're smart enough to retreat, and let the Americans burden the load.
miketheterrible wrote:Dunno if you are being dumb or not bud medvechuk doesn't hold any power. So whatever the two negotiate has little to do with outcomes.
Actually he does have that now. There is a reason he's allowed in Ukraine. He's useful, despite being a threat. It's a well calculated game.
miketheterrible wrote:Dunno if you are being dumb or not bud medvechuk doesn't hold any power. So whatever the two negotiate has little to do with outcomes.
Actually he does have that now. There is a reason he's allowed in Ukraine. He's useful, despite being a threat.
His party has no seats or at least minor to none. He was simply the Minsk 2.0 official from Ukraine.
It's all Zelensky and his handlers in control now.
Well, unless the oligarchies just prevent him from working.
miketheterrible wrote:Dunno if you are being dumb or not bud medvechuk doesn't hold any power. So whatever the two negotiate has little to do with outcomes.
Actually he does have that now. There is a reason he's allowed in Ukraine. He's useful, despite being a threat.
His party has no seats or at least minor to none. He was simply the Minsk 2.0 official from Ukraine.
It's all Zelensky and his handlers in control now.
Well, unless the oligarchies just prevent him from working.
I think you should inform yourself a bit more on current Ukranian politics and how the Rada now works.
miketheterrible wrote:Dunno if you are being dumb or not bud medvechuk doesn't hold any power. So whatever the two negotiate has little to do with outcomes.
Actually he does have that now. There is a reason he's allowed in Ukraine. He's useful, despite being a threat.
His party has no seats or at least minor to none. He was simply the Minsk 2.0 official from Ukraine.
It's all Zelensky and his handlers in control now.
Well, unless the oligarchies just prevent him from working.
I think you should inform yourself a bit more on current Ukranian politics and how the Rada now works.
Son, I guarantee you I know more about it than you.
I suggest you should see who now has majority in Rada. It isnt Medvechuk.
miketheterrible wrote:Dunno if you are being dumb or not bud medvechuk doesn't hold any power. So whatever the two negotiate has little to do with outcomes.
Actually he does have that now. There is a reason he's allowed in Ukraine. He's useful, despite being a threat.
His party has no seats or at least minor to none. He was simply the Minsk 2.0 official from Ukraine.
It's all Zelensky and his handlers in control now.
Well, unless the oligarchies just prevent him from working.
I think you should inform yourself a bit more on current Ukranian politics and how the Rada now works.
Son, I guarantee you I know more about it than you.
I suggest you should see who now has majority in Rada. It isnt Medvechuk.
That's not saying much. Who are Zelenky's potential coalition partners for any positive Russia reproachment? Gas deals? law changes? Which party is the second strongest with the most seats capable of delivering that and being that conduit. Why are they even allowed to exist? Of course if you had any cursory knowledge of this you would know what I was referring to the second I said so earlier
When you hop on your high horse you usually make poor judgement.. that's putting it amicably.
Last edited by ATLASCUB on Fri Jul 26, 2019 9:33 pm; edited 1 time in total
miketheterrible wrote:Dunno if you are being dumb or not bud medvechuk doesn't hold any power. So whatever the two negotiate has little to do with outcomes.
Actually he does have that now. There is a reason he's allowed in Ukraine. He's useful, despite being a threat.
His party has no seats or at least minor to none. He was simply the Minsk 2.0 official from Ukraine.
It's all Zelensky and his handlers in control now.
Well, unless the oligarchies just prevent him from working.
I think you should inform yourself a bit more on current Ukranian politics and how the Rada now works.
Son, I guarantee you I know more about it than you.
I suggest you should see who now has majority in Rada. It isnt Medvechuk.
That's not saying much. Who are Zelenky's coalition partners for any positive Russia reproachment? Which party is the second strongest with the most seats capable of delivering that and being that conduit. Why are they even allowed to exist? Of course if you had any cursory knowledge of this you would know what I was referring to the second I said so.
When you hop on your high horse you usually make poor judgement.. amicably saying.
And they don't make decision for being second popular especially when Zelensky won what, 70% of the seats? Why they can exist is like why liberal Apple party in Russia exists. Because EU would prevent handouts if they decided not to allow others to exist.
miketheterrible wrote:Dunno if you are being dumb or not bud medvechuk doesn't hold any power. So whatever the two negotiate has little to do with outcomes.
Actually he does have that now. There is a reason he's allowed in Ukraine. He's useful, despite being a threat.
His party has no seats or at least minor to none. He was simply the Minsk 2.0 official from Ukraine.
It's all Zelensky and his handlers in control now.
Well, unless the oligarchies just prevent him from working.
I think you should inform yourself a bit more on current Ukranian politics and how the Rada now works.
Son, I guarantee you I know more about it than you.
I suggest you should see who now has majority in Rada. It isnt Medvechuk.
That's not saying much. Who are Zelenky's coalition partners for any positive Russia reproachment? Which party is the second strongest with the most seats capable of delivering that and being that conduit. Why are they even allowed to exist? Of course if you had any cursory knowledge of this you would know what I was referring to the second I said so.
When you hop on your high horse you usually make poor judgement.. amicably saying.
And they don't make decision for being second popular especially when Zelensky won what, 70% of the seats? Why they can exist is like why liberal Apple party in Russia exists. Because EU would prevent handouts if they decided not to allow others to exist.
I think when you start guessing numbers when you claimed, seriously that you knew more than me, the argument was done a long time ago. Like I said, inform yourself a bit more so that if you want to have an actual argument, it's worthy of both our times.
miketheterrible wrote:Dunno if you are being dumb or not bud medvechuk doesn't hold any power. So whatever the two negotiate has little to do with outcomes.
Actually he does have that now. There is a reasonably he's allowed in Ukraine. He's useful, despite being a threat.
His party has no seats or at least minor to none. He was simply the Minsk 2.0 official from Ukraine.
It's all Zelensky and his handlers in control now.
Well, unless the oligarchies just prevent him from working.
I think you should inform yourself a bit more on current Ukranian politics and how the Rada now works.
Son, I guarantee you I know more about it than you.
I suggest you should see who now has majority in Rada. It isnt Medvechuk.
That's not saying much. Who are Zelenky's coalition partners for any positive Russia reproachment? Which party is the second strongest with the most seats capable of delivering that and being that conduit. Why are they even allowed to exist? Of course if you had any cursory knowledge of this you would know what I was referring to the second I said so.
When you hop on your high horse you usually make poor judgement.. amicably saying.
And they don't make decision for being second popular especially when Zelensky won what, 70% of the seats? Why they can exist is like why liberal Apple party in Russia exists. Because EU would prevent handouts if they decided not to allow others to exist.
I think when you start guessing numbers when you claimed, seriously that you knew more than me, the argument was done a long time ago. Like I said, inform yourself a bit more so that if you want to have an actual argument, it's worthy of both our times.
Alright moron, so besides talking shit with guessing why Medvechuk exists, why not "educate" us then?
BTW, here are results https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.latimes.com/world-nation/story/2019-07-23/ukraine-election-results%3f_amp=true
Medvechuk doesn't ha e majority. So he is pointless now. Only negotiating is done via zelensky.
Unless you want to tell us otherwise of how the Rada works because I guess you know better than Russians and Ukrainians, eh?
Let me give you a hint - whatever Medvechuk doesn't agree with on Zelensky, he won't win the necessary votes against since Zelensky holds majority thus they can pass what they want trough Rada without worrying of the votes against, unless all opposition agrees with each other against Zelensky's party. Which we all know won't happen
miketheterrible wrote:Dunno if you are being dumb or not bud medvechuk doesn't hold any power. So whatever the two negotiate has little to do with outcomes.
Actually he does have that now. There is a reasonably he's allowed in Ukraine. He's useful, despite being a threat.
His party has no seats or at least minor to none. He was simply the Minsk 2.0 official from Ukraine.
It's all Zelensky and his handlers in control now.
Well, unless the oligarchies just prevent him from working.
I think you should inform yourself a bit more on current Ukranian politics and how the Rada now works.
Son, I guarantee you I know more about it than you.
I suggest you should see who now has majority in Rada. It isnt Medvechuk.
That's not saying much. Who are Zelenky's coalition partners for any positive Russia reproachment? Which party is the second strongest with the most seats capable of delivering that and being that conduit. Why are they even allowed to exist? Of course if you had any cursory knowledge of this you would know what I was referring to the second I said so.
When you hop on your high horse you usually make poor judgement.. amicably saying.
And they don't make decision for being second popular especially when Zelensky won what, 70% of the seats? Why they can exist is like why liberal Apple party in Russia exists. Because EU would prevent handouts if they decided not to allow others to exist.
I think when you start guessing numbers when you claimed, seriously that you knew more than me, the argument was done a long time ago. Like I said, inform yourself a bit more so that if you want to have an actual argument, it's worthy of both our times.
Alright moron, so besides talking shit with guessing why Medvechuk exists, why not "educate" us then?
BTW, here are results https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.latimes.com/world-nation/story/2019-07-23/ukraine-election-results%3f_amp=true
Medvechuk doesn't ha e majority. So he is pointless now. Only negotiating is done via zelensky.
Unless you want to tell us otherwise of how the Rada works because I guess you know better than Russians and Ukrainians, eh?
Let me give you a hint - whatever Medvechuk doesn't agree with on Zelensky, he won't win the necessary votes against since Zelensky holds majority thus they can pass what they want trough Rada without worrying of the votes against, unless all opposition agrees with each other against Zelensky's party. Which we all know won't happen
If you use your neurons a bit more critically as to why Medvechuck is allowed to exist in the Ukranian political arena, when Yanukovich and his clan was forced out.... maybe you'll understand then. I'll tell you this, it's definitely not because the EU is a democratic loving bunch who put strings attached to aid. The very same E.U that supported a coup d'eta on European soil? that turns a blind eye to Nazism in Ukraine, and all the crimes taking part in it? but but... it's they who on principles allow Medvechuck's party to exist out of some bureaucratic print?
I'm merely helping you get your head into thinking in the right direction - asking questions is a great way of doing that - usually. But it seems you feel emotionally vested in posing the contrarian point of view when caught talking out of your behind.
We've gone from you knowing everything there is, to quoting 70%, to then quoting 43%, to then inadvertently without realizing coming to grasps that Zelensky doesn't have an absolute majority, which in a parliamentary system depends on coalitions (other parties) to get shit done.
There is no evidence of any reconciliation between Russia and the Kiev regime. Zelensky is acting exactly like Poroshenko while pretending to be something better.
As usual any coverage of Russia is mostly hysterical BS. There is some discussion of a gas transit agreement with Banderastan, but this is purely short term for technical reasons. The Kiev regime is preparing a gas disaster this winter to blame on Russia. Russia needs to frustrate this agenda. Medvedchuk is irrelevant and this technical gas transit talk has nothing to do with him or any reconciliation.
I notice that NATO media and its liberast sycophants in Russia engage in rabid wishful thinking. They act as if by writing articles on any given topic that they can create reality. No amount of propaganda about some reconciliation with Banderastan will come true.
If there was a criminal act it was the Kiev ATC routing civilian airline traffic over a SAM active war zone. BTW, note all the video footage of the alleged Russian Buk being driven around in Donetsk. There is not a single image with the TAR unit. Only the TELAR unit. The latter cannot distinguish civilian aircraft and the former is required for full combat effectiveness. This proves that it was the TELAR unit obtained from the Ukrainian Army by the rebels
The problem here seems to be that you discount the obvious bullshit claim in the report that the missile fired was from a Russian Army BUK system driven in to the region the missile is claimed to have come from and then driven out again with no real evidence at all and ignoring all evidence provided from the Russian side, but you do accept their claims that the missile came from a sector held by the rebels... which according to the Malaysian prime minister seems to contradict their information and eye witness statements...
There were over 3 million Russians in the Austro-Hungarian Empire in 1884. Their language was Russian, not svidomite Ukrainian. Ukraine is a fake country.
If there was a criminal act it was the Kiev ATC routing civilian airline traffic over a SAM active war zone. BTW, note all the video footage of the alleged Russian Buk being driven around in Donetsk. There is not a single image with the TAR unit. Only the TELAR unit. The latter cannot distinguish civilian aircraft and the former is required for full combat effectiveness. This proves that it was the TELAR unit obtained from the Ukrainian Army by the rebels
The problem here seems to be that you discount the obvious bullshit claim in the report that the missile fired was from a Russian Army BUK system driven in to the region the missile is claimed to have come from and then driven out again with no real evidence at all and ignoring all evidence provided from the Russian side, but you do accept their claims that the missile came from a sector held by the rebels... which according to the Malaysian prime minister seems to contradict their information and eye witness statements...
Put the crack pipe down. You are putting words in my mouth left, right and center.
I am highlighting that
1) Russia had no reason to send a partially functional Buk unit to the rebels. None of the contextless video trotted out to "prove" it was a Russian Buk system actually makes any such proof and at best is video of rebels moving the one functional TELAR unit they seized from the Ukr air base that they captured.
2) The whole notion of Russia sending one unit to shoot MH17 and then take it back is retarded and causes brain damage when considered.
3) The above and the rest of the blood libel from NATO about MH17 is designed to turn what would be at worst collateral damage (assuming it was not the Kiev regime forces that shot MH17 down, which is vastly more likely) into a peace time criminal act or some sort of war crime. This incident fits neither category.
Having looked down this particular page again I see people are misusing the quote button.
It is OK to reply to someone by clicking on the quote button at the end of their post, but it is a forum rule that don't repeat someones entire post just to comment on something they said... otherwise things get repeated exponentially over and over and just take up enormous amounts of space for no purpose.
I will take post number 886 above as an example... if you have a look at it, it consists of multiple replies and comments, but with every response all the previous replies and comments are repeated with a new comment to be added at the end.
If I were to click the quote button at the bottom of the page I would get this:
miketheterrible wrote:
ATLASCUB wrote:
miketheterrible wrote:
ATLASCUB wrote:
miketheterrible wrote:
ATLASCUB wrote:
miketheterrible wrote:Dunno if you are being dumb or not bud medvechuk doesn't hold any power. So whatever the two negotiate has little to do with outcomes.
Actually he does have that now. There is a reason he's allowed in Ukraine. He's useful, despite being a threat.
His party has no seats or at least minor to none. He was simply the Minsk 2.0 official from Ukraine.
It's all Zelensky and his handlers in control now.
Well, unless the oligarchies just prevent him from working.
I think you should inform yourself a bit more on current Ukranian politics and how the Rada now works.
Son, I guarantee you I know more about it than you.
I suggest you should see who now has majority in Rada. It isnt Medvechuk.
That's not saying much. Who are Zelenky's coalition partners for any positive Russia reproachment? Which party is the second strongest with the most seats capable of delivering that and being that conduit. Why are they even allowed to exist? Of course if you had any cursory knowledge of this you would know what I was referring to the second I said so.
When you hop on your high horse you usually make poor judgement.. amicably saying.
And they don't make decision for being second popular especially when Zelensky won what, 70% of the seats? Why they can exist is like why liberal Apple party in Russia exists. Because EU would prevent handouts if they decided not to allow others to exist.
Which is a big mess that will be repeated again when the reply comes and it is totally unnecessary because it was already repeated previously.
If you want to reply to someone using the quote button at the bottom of their message then you need to delete all the crap that is not relevant to what you are replying to.
Failing that just look at the message number in the top corner of the message you are replying to and put that instead.
If you have to click on the quote button then start from the bottom of that text and move up until you find the second {/quote}... obviously with square brackets, and delete everything from that last bracket up to the persons name on the first line. If you don't understand then ask me to explain it in a relevant thread regarding technical issues with the forum.
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