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    US Economy Thread

    GarryB
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    Post  GarryB Tue Nov 26, 2019 11:51 pm

    Strange... I haven't seen any of this information on CNN or the BBC... they are too busy blaming Russian meddling for all the problems in the west...

    Could we assume that because CNN and MSNBC and Fox are all owned by people who fit more in the 1% than in the 90% mentioned could be why it is not mentioned... because they are OK with how things are going and think they deserve their positions of wealth and power and the good things in life...
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    Post  Tsavo Lion Wed Nov 27, 2019 6:07 am

    Democrat Bloomberg is now running for the White House- & he's not OK with the way MAGA is going! “I’m running for president to defeat Donald Trump and rebuild America,” Bloomberg wrote.
    “We cannot afford four more years of President Trump’s reckless and unethical actions,” he continued. “He represents an existential threat to our country and our values. If he wins another term in office, we may never recover from the damage.” ..Forbes ranked Bloomberg as the 11th-richest person in the world last year with a net worth of roughly $50 billion. Trump, by contrast, was ranked 259th with a net worth of just over $3 billion. His businesses — among them are financial data services and news services in various formats — employ more than 19,000 people in 69 countries. They are also certain to raise ethical questions about how his news-oriented businesses will cover the campaign and financial conflicts of interest for a possible presidency.
    Already, Bloomberg has vowed to spend at least $150 million of his fortune on various pieces of a 2020 campaign, including more than $100 million for internet ads attacking Trump, between $15 million and $20 million on a voter registration drive largely targeting minority voters, and more than $30 million on an initial round of television ads.
    He did not say how much he would be willing to spend overall on his presidential ambitions, but senior adviser Howard Wolfson did: “Whatever it takes to defeat Donald Trump.”

    https://apnews.com/583b5e7ecfc84b61b470b5e8e3c4bcab
    Hole
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    Post  Hole Wed Nov 27, 2019 10:26 am

    He tripled his "fortune" after becoming mayor of New York. As Republican!
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    Post  Tsavo Lion Wed Nov 27, 2019 4:52 pm

    He tripled his "fortune" after becoming mayor of New York.
    While being smarter about building up his fortune, leaving Trump in the dust, who btw refuses to disclose his income tax documents to hide the fact he got not $1M, but a lot more from his father.
    As Republican!
    The Clintons were also Republicans. If there was another strong party, they would go there, instead of running as independents or turncoats.
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    Post  Hole Wed Nov 27, 2019 6:56 pm

    Bloomberg used his powers as mayor to boost his fortune.

    Changing your political affiliations like your underwear shows what guys like him value the most: money.
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    Post  GarryB Wed Nov 27, 2019 10:08 pm

    Just realised.... the information in that chart that started this thread.... my mind played silly tricks on me... I am so used to hearing about the 1%... but look again... it is the 0.1 percent... own more than 90% of the population... the point is that is that it is getting worse because money makes money much faster than labour or effort... but you need to be an unfeeling bastard for the system to work... so not only are the richest getting richer, they are also becoming unfeeling censored who probably despise anyone with less than a billion dollars of their own money...

    How does this tie in with the American dream?
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    Post  kvs Wed Nov 27, 2019 11:11 pm

    The American dream is long dead and was never alive to begin with. I recommend people watch the movie Heaven's Gate. Not
    because it is a great movie, but because it is a glimpse into the reality of the USA for immigrants. Another, eye opener
    is Mattewan which shows us the feudal barbarity of the US coal mine belt. People think that the USA was always about freedom.
    BS. It was the same feudal, colonial, racist sh*t as anywhere else. I saw some 1950s cowboy movie that was practically foaming
    at the mouth with racist BS about US aboriginals. US aboriginals did not deserve to get ethnically cleansed. So the American
    dream was supposed to overlap assorted barbarity...

    Snake oil is what the USA has always peddled. It never, ever judges itself by the standard it claims to apply to others. But
    that standard is mostly lie and spin. Recall the bleating during Putin's 2011 election how "only" around 60% of the eligible
    voters turned out. This bleating coming from a country where some presidential elections see 40% turnouts. Although they
    have been higher more recently for some reason. Also note how the US dominated western media yaps about inequality in Russia.
    This takes the cake for hypocrisy. Income inequality in the USA is so bad, that even banana republics look good:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QPKKQnijnsM

    Americans hate socialism because they are brainwashed by their corporate oligarchy. Socialism (not authoritarianism) is in the
    interest of the majority. At every stage of the labour movement, corporate shills and whores would always cry that the sky is
    falling and that nothing short of sweatshop slavery is the only viable option to preserve the economy. Every freaking stage.
    But somehow by the 1960s the USA saw the best economy it had. Then started globalization and offshoring to solve the union
    "problem". Now the USA majority is relatively poorer even if they have more electronic junk. And MAGA is all about restoring
    the 1960s. But the US is in a deep hole that its oligarchy has dug.

    One of the great successes of brainwashing in the USA, is that "leftist progressive" thinking has been corrupted with fake identity
    politics. Nobody gives a f*ck about workers' rights and the standard of living including fair healthcare. They are obsessed with
    trannies and forced sex surgery on children.

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    GarryB
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    Post  GarryB Thu Nov 28, 2019 12:13 am

    That is something I find amusing too... they are so full of hate and anger... if you say something racist or homophobic they react as though you hit them... it seems the worst crime in their eyes is to not be as liberal thinking as they are, but obviously there are exceptions... I men you can't criticise or not approve of gay relationships, or because of some ones skin colour or religion... but it is fair game regarding anything Russian or Iranian or pro Assad Syrian or North Korean or Cuban or Venezuelan...

    It was when Trump was elected and the liberal democrats lost that there was actual riots in the street and talk of revolution... imagine if he wins again...

    But then who cares... the country is broken and he clearly has neither the will or capacity to fix it.
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    Post  kvs Mon Dec 23, 2019 2:35 pm



    The US has transitioned into printing dollars to cover both the long term and short term new debt that is created every year via the
    massive budget deficit. Actual demand for this new debt is not longer significant. The US is now in Pancho Villa fiscal policy mode.

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    Post  Hole Mon Dec 23, 2019 3:43 pm

    If they just had some bananas to sell! Laughing Laughing Laughing
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    US Economy Thread - Page 7 Empty The Magic of Funny Money

    Post  calripson Sun Dec 13, 2020 2:43 am

    The Anglo-American Empire is at its heart a financial system. A long evolution of the Venetian/Dutch/British Imperial monetary system. Here is an example of how divorced funny money is from real world economics: Prior to last week DoorDash and Airbnb had a net worth of $34 billion. Now keep in mind neither company has solved the world's energy crisis, cured cancer, or even developed any novel technology. One delivers food, the other rents out peoples flats to visitors. Airbnb had revenues of $4.7 billion in 2019 and DoorDash had revenues of about $2.6 billion. The $34 billion imputed value occurs over years with a series of small capital raise each priced higher than the prior. Not hard to pull off in Silicon Valley.

    Post IPO DoorDash and Airbnb have a combined market value of $170 billion. Thanks to the sales staff at Wall Street underwriters and a complicit $$$ friendly media. To put that in perspective, DoorDash and Airbnb are valued at about 25% of the entire 219 company Russian Micex stock market.

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    Post  kvs Sun Dec 13, 2020 3:06 am

    Stocks are speculative trash. No company can ever realize its stock "valuation" since if it tried to liquify them, the stock
    price would collapse. I cannot understand the level of idiocy of urnalists and various talking heads that act as if stock
    prices are intrinsic. They are vapour.

    It is obscene how pension funds ride this casino Ponzi scheme as if they are real investments. So we even have legislators
    who want to clean up the oil industry in the wake of the 2010 Gulf of Mexico blowout being brow beaten by urnalists
    in interviews because their regulatory efforts are a "threat" to the stock valuation of BP et al. in which pension funds
    are "invested". This is pure lunacy.

    You can also see from the fundamentally secular rise of the stock market (e.g. Dow Jones) that it is detached from reality.
    The US economy is not secularly increasing outside of its debt load.

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    Post  calripson Sun Dec 13, 2020 6:40 pm

    Stock simply represents equity interest. There is nothing inherently "trashy" about that. What is hocus pocus is the current insane valuations which are a function of global central bank monetary policy. Stocks valuations are showing you the real value of the dollar as a fiat currency the same way flats in Moscow in 1990s kept going up in value despite a horrendous economy. People didn't want to hold rubles and had limited choices besides parking their money in a real asset - an apartment. Stock prices in the US are reflecting the fact that smart people would rather own a real asset (part of a company) rather than hold cash or even worse debt. Stock prices very likely may be 10 times higher in 10 years...and a roll of toilet paper might cost $10 too.
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    Post  kvs Sun Dec 13, 2020 6:51 pm

    calripson wrote:Stock simply represents equity interest. There is nothing inherently "trashy" about that. What is hocus pocus is the current insane valuations which are a function of global central bank monetary policy. Stocks valuations are showing you the real value of the dollar as a fiat currency the same way flats in Moscow in 1990s kept going up in value despite a horrendous economy. People didn't want to hold rubles and had limited choices besides parking their money in a real asset - an apartment. Stock prices in the US are reflecting the fact that smart people would rather own a real asset (part of a company) rather than hold cash or even worse debt. Stock prices very likely may be 10 times higher in 10 years...and a roll of toilet paper might cost $10 too.

    That does not contradict what I wrote. Exxon is always touted as vastly bigger than Gazprom even though it has much less
    in reserves on a BTU basis and even price adjusted basis so oil vs. gas does not matter. Most of Exxon's "worth" is the hot
    air known as stock prices. Like I said, it can never realize this "value" in any other form. To convert to other forms it has
    to liquify its "high vlaued" stocks which would turn them to junk overnight. If it tried to sell them off a bit at a time, it would
    take decades to liquify.

    Stock markets are useful for raising capital, but we have entered cloud kookoo land in recent years where urnalists and talking
    heads claim that stock prices are just like real estate prices. No they are not.

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    Post  calripson Sun Dec 13, 2020 10:44 pm

    Companies, or the shareholders, realize their "value" all the time when they are bought by other companies or taken private. No one wants to buy Exxon because oil and gas is viewed as a declining asset. Tesla has a market cap almost equal to the entire S&P 500 Energy sector as crazy as that might be. No need to liquidate anything over time. You get cash or shares which you are free to trade the next day. You can turn around and buy real estate if you like which is not as you maintain much different in funny money land than stocks. Real estate prices in levered markets like the US are largely a function of easy credit. What do you think the price of an average home in the USA would be if every buyer had to pay cash? No 2% 30 year mortgages where you can roll your homeowners insurance and taxes into one amortized payment. No, given the current policies of global central banks, the last place you want to be is as a dollar denominated creditor. The second last place you want to be is in cash.
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    Post  calripson Sat Mar 13, 2021 11:30 pm

    According to the Federal Reserve, U.S. household wealth rose by 10% last year to $130.2 trillion. Of the $6.9 trillion gain in the last 3 months, $6.2 trillion came from gains in assets holdings - primarily stocks and real estate.

    Now, how is it that "wealth" increased by 10% during a year of pandemic and economic shutdown? What actual beneficial real world effects did the pandemic bring? Maybe some efficiencies in switching to online services and work, maybe the creation of some vaccines and medications, but hardly a world where U.S. wealth grew 10% to record levels.

    What did happen is the monetarist creation of record levels of "money" - 25% in the case of the U.S. dollar, coupled with fiscal government deficits of $4 trillion. None of this possible without an accommodative Federal Reserve keeping short term interest rates at 0% and purchasing $80 billion in U.S. treasuries and $40 billion in MBS every month to control the yield curve. The Fed even expanded to buying corporate debt. The Fed was joined in this global endeavor by other world central banks. None of that is possible without the U.S. dollar reigning supreme as the global reserve currency.

    Of course, this is all an illusion: I am reminded of the movie Wall Street where the character Gordon Gecko states that money is all an illusion, a sleight of hand, changing "perceptions" from one hand to another. The illusion becoming a reality.

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    Cowboy's daughter
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    Post  Cowboy's daughter Mon May 31, 2021 3:05 pm

    kvs wrote:The American dream is long dead and was never alive to begin with.   I recommend people watch the movie Heaven's Gate.  Not
    because it is a great movie, but because it is a glimpse into the reality of the USA for immigrants.  Another, eye opener
    is Mattewan which shows us the feudal barbarity of the US coal mine belt.  People think that the USA was always about freedom.
    BS.  It was the same feudal, colonial, racist sh*t as anywhere else.  I saw some 1950s cowboy movie that was practically foaming
    at the mouth with racist BS about US aboriginals.  US aboriginals did not deserve to get ethnically cleansed.  So the American
    dream was supposed to overlap assorted barbarity...

    Snake oil is what the USA has always peddled.  It never, ever judges itself by the standard it claims to apply to others.  But
    that standard is mostly lie and spin.  Recall the bleating during Putin's 2011 election how "only" around 60% of the eligible
    voters turned out.  This bleating coming from a country where some presidential elections see 40% turnouts.  Although they
    have been higher more recently for some reason.  Also note how the US dominated western media yaps about inequality in Russia.
    This takes the cake for hypocrisy.  Income inequality in the USA is so bad, that even banana republics look good:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QPKKQnijnsM

    Americans hate socialism because they are brainwashed by their corporate oligarchy.  Socialism (not authoritarianism) is in the
    interest of the majority.   At every stage of the labour movement, corporate shills and whores would always cry that the sky is
    falling and that nothing short of sweatshop slavery is the only viable option to preserve the economy.  Every freaking stage.
    But somehow by the 1960s the USA saw the best economy it had.  Then started globalization and offshoring to solve the union
    "problem".  Now the USA majority is relatively poorer even if they have more electronic junk.   And MAGA is all about restoring
    the 1960s.  But the US is in a deep hole that its oligarchy has dug.  

    One of the great successes of brainwashing in the USA, is that "leftist progressive" thinking has been corrupted with fake identity
    politics.  Nobody gives a f*ck about workers' rights and the standard of living including fair healthcare.  They are obsessed with
    trannies and forced sex surgery on children.  


    Heaven's Gate is a great movie, based on facts.

    But all ethnicities suffered at the hands of the Robber Barons, and still do.

    It's always been a class war.

    But nowadays, the Political parties are writing hot checks to throw money at persons to keep them pacified.

    I think persons in Southern States hate Government-run Socialism by the United States Government, partly because of the Civil War.
    Persons in Southern States will never trust the United States Government.

    That's why they don't want "Socialized Medicine", although we have the VA, and Medicare, and Medicaid.
    & that's why persons in Southern States want the right to own and bear guns. They don't want the United States government to have total control.

    We are definitely a nation of contrasts. Some of the most patriotic members of the armed forces are the Indigenous of America.

    Most of the persons are not into "leftist progressive" thinking, but that is all that is in the media.

    & the elites of the Democratic Party are.

    Most persons aren't racist, and don't hate each other, but that's all that is in the media, and all that is spewed by the Democrats.

    Divide and conquer .

    & not everyone who "bears arms", is "white",


    Hundreds participate in Armed Second Amendment March


    https://ktul.com/news/local/armed-second-amendment-march


    Reconstruction in Texas after the Civil War,

    the Union army of occupation, and the State Police

    The Reconstruction Administration of Governor E. J. Davis Congressional Reconstruction brought on the governorship of E. J. Davis, the first Republican governor in the history of the state and the last for over a century to come. His actions as governor from 1870 through 1873 and those of the Twelfth Legislature would make this period highly unpopular among the majority of Texans. Each of the following actions played a part. 1. State Militia The Twelfth Legislature, in which Republican members were a leading force, empowered the creation of a state militia system under the control of Governor Davis. The governor was empowered to use the militia to maintain law and order when local officials failed or refused to do so. 2. State Police The State Police were a permanent force, as opposed to the state militia, which had the authority to operate anywhere in the state, overruling local law enforcement officials. The State Police were a relatively efficient group but they were hated at the time because blacks made up a sizable portion of the force and it was used to put down unruly and violent groups opposing Reconstruction. 3. The Enabling Act This legislation allowed Governor Davis to fill some 8,500 jobs in government at every level in Texas that had been made vacant by enforcement of the iron clad oath. Such appointive power in the hands of the governor was unprecedented in Texas where Jacksonian Democracy had always kept governors weak. 4. Martial Law Governor Davis declared martial law in Limestone, Freestone, Hill, and Walker Counties when law enforcement machinery broke down. He thus sent in the State Police to quell disorder. Historians today maintain the necessity of these actions but they were exceedingly unpopular at the time. 5. The Radical Legislative Program Reconstruction legislatures across the South have been charged with incredible corruption and lavish spending. There is some truth to these charges, but the same can be said for northern state legislatures and the federal government at the same time. There can be no question, however, that the Reconstruction legislature in Texas pursued a much more active and expensive program than Texas had ever seen before. Public funds were used to create a public school system, to subsidize the construction of railroads in the state, and to construct a road system. The Davis administration and Congressional Reconstruction were exceedingly unpopular among the majority of Texans for multiple reasons. They were accomplished by outside force through an army of occupation and centralized governmental power where Texans had always preferred decentralization. They pursued active government where Texans had always preferred small, inactive, and cheaper government. Large numbers of Texans were disfranchised by the iron clad oath while blacks were enfranchised. The coercive force of the state militia, state police, and martial law enraged the majority as did the fact that Reconstruction placed state government in the hands of Republicans. Given the tremendous unpopularity and abnormality of Congressional Reconstruction, it is understandable that Texans moved to undo everything associated with Reconstruction as soon as the state was readmitted to the Union and the iron clad oath and military occupation came to an end. The process of undoing Reconstruction began in October, 1871 when Texans removed the state's four U. S. Representatives in a special election and replaced them with four unreconstructed Democrats. Democrats regained control of the Texas legislature in late 1872 as a result of elections in which Texans vented their wrath on the Republicans. Almost immediately the Thirteenth Legislature repealed most of the "radical" legislative program enacted by the previous body and removed some of the governor's most significant powers. In December, 1873, Texans removed Governor Davis from office in favor of an unreconstructed Democrat, Richard Coke. In 1875 Texans held a constitutional convention to replace the Constitution of 1869 which had been forced on the state and which the majority of Texans regarded as anathema. In 1876 Texans adopted our present constitution which was designed to prevent a recurrence of active government forevermore. With the adoption of the Constitution of 1876 by Texas voters, the undoing of Reconstruction was complete. wrote:

    https://www.austincc.edu/jlw/reconstr.html


    While the dismantling of Reconstruction was complete in Texas by 1876, the impact of this experience lasted far beyond that date. The Republican party was discredited in the Lone Star state for almost one hundred years, in large part because of its association with this unpopular period. Similarly discredited was active, interventionary government. Texans had seen such a government during Reconstruction. The majority were convinced it had done things to them not done things for them. They were determined to prevent any recurrence. Government would be kept as small and as weak as at all possible in the aftermath. Reconstruction also produced the exceedingly restrictive Constitution of 1876, under which the state of Texas still attempts to function today. Finally, the Reconstruction experience created a bitterness against black Texans that would delay the attainment of equal rights for a full century.

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    Post  kvs Mon May 31, 2021 3:57 pm

    The US health care system is an example of a type of schizophrenia. It is not a real market system where medical companies compete nationwide.
    Every state forms a local market. The cost per capita in the USA for healthcare is higher much higher than in Canada because of private corporate
    bureaucratic overhead. Due to the lack of any real competitive pressure in the US quasi-private health care system, the prices are insanely high.
    Tourists who need urgent treatment are totally screwed if they do not have travel health insurance that is good enough. The Canadian
    system has its own serious issues so a better comparison is the French system. Michael Moore (not matter if he is PC) did a documentary on this
    and nobody can debunk it. The German system is quite good too even if it is not all that cheap. In the US, you either are lucky and have
    health insurance, or you are SOL.

    The "socialism" that most Americans perceive is a puffed up distortion. Keeping a leash on the corporate oligarchy is the job of an elected
    government. But in the USA this is considered heresy and people think that being at the tender mercies of oligarchs is better. Free healthcare
    and post secondary education (university/college) is not entitlement rot through welfare. Nobody is taking away from personal responsibility and
    initiative. In spite of the high priced US educational system, the identity politics and associated critical "race" theory rot is widespread. I think
    the US system undermined itself.

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