Upgraded Kirov class: Project 11442 [Admiral Nakhimov]

zg18 wrote:"Admiral Nakhimov" modernization

George1 wrote:
..and artillery weapons

GarryB wrote:Actually we have not seen a new improved modernised 130mm gun mount so far... most have centred around 100mm guns and 76.2mm guns and 57mm guns in new stealthy turrets...

GarryB wrote:Well duh!!!  

You are quite right.

they are cascading the calibres... where previously a light gun boat might have a 57mm gun and a corvette will have a 76.2mm gun and a frigate will have a 100mm gun and a destroyer or cruiser will have a 130mm gun a light patrol boat will have a 57mm gun, a corvette will have a 100mm gun the weight of a 76.2mm gun and the frigate will have a 130mm gun... the question is what will the destroyer and cruiser sized vessels have.

The interesting thing is that new guided shells for the 57mm gun will make it rather more effective in many roles... there is talk in the Army to replace the 30mm cannon in the IFV role and also in the air defence role because where the 57mm lacks in rate of fire it makes up in hitting power and accuracy especially against small targets.

For the Navy the arguments are similar... a very small target needs a direct hit with a 30mm cannon shell as they are generally too small for a proximity fuse. If you picture a 5m by 5m square of target cardboard at 2-3km range a 200 round 30mm cannon burst would randomly puncture the cardboard in several places but there is plenty of empty space left on that target for a cruise missile to sneak through. in comparison a guided 57mm shell with a proximity fuse is much more likely to get close enough to bring even a very small target down without having to fire hundreds of rounds.

the 57mm gun is much heavier than a 30mm gatling gun mount but if it only needs 500 rounds on the mount to do a good job compared with thousands of rounds of 30mm shells it can overall be lighter and more compact.

This means that a Corvette could give up its 30mm cannons for a 57mm dual purpose gun, but also has the potential to see Cruisers replacing their 30mm cannon mounts with 57mm guns too to be used together with 152mm gun mounts.

having said that any technology that can be fitted to the 57mm shells could just as easily be fitted to 76.2mm or 100mm or 130mm or even 152mm shells. Having a fully automatic twin barrel 152mm CIWS that can reach out a dozen kms would be very interesting...

hoom wrote:There are CAD drawings of a naval twin Koalition kicking around the place.

Being they are from back when they were still looking to make the land version twin & that changed to single barrel it's probably a no-go but would be pretty cool.

The equipment list http://bmpd.livejournal.com/1124199.html doesn't seem to include even the A-192 so it might just keep its existing mount (or have no gun?)

hoom wrote:In a piece of epic German Engineering they put a largely unmodified Pz-2000 turret on a ship.

To their great surprise but not to anyone with a clue, the marine environment caused corrosion issues  

The twin Koalition mount however is clearly a Navalised mount -> would expect it to be appropriately reworked for corrosion resistance (&/or not need it if the Koalition project was intended to be used for a naval mount from the start?)

George1 wrote:
In accordance with the plan of the factory makes replacement and upgrade the ship's life support systems, electronic weapons,
the ship's energy systems modernization plan also provides for the replacement of complex missile and artillery weapons "Admiral Nakhimov ", - said the source.

George1 wrote:
..................

We know that UKSK in severodvinsk was replaced and changed to some (seriously different launcher in Kazan submarine launche tubes).

gaurav wrote:
UKSK/Universal launcher or some other launchers.Kazan has given a well timed shock not to believe anything on here say.
We know that UKSK in severodvinsk was replaced and changed to some (seriously different launcher in Kazan submarine launche tubes).

I think they actually decided its not worth the trouble.

hoom wrote:

I think they actually decided its not worth the trouble.

They should have known from the start that it wouldn't work out due to corrosion issues on a mount designed for land only, it was a complete waste of time & money.

Back on topic: Charly015 has a take on what he thinks Nakhimov will be like when upgraded http://charly015.blogspot.co.nz/2017/01/sobre-la-modernizacion-del-nakimov.html

chicken wrote:
If I recall, Redut was not on the list of equipments.

If I recall, Redut was not on the list of equipments.

For instance laser beam riding 57mm shells could be guided independently of the gun so 10 or 20 EO systems on board the ship could each find a target and mark that target... the 57mm gun mount could fire 20 rounds in about 4 seconds (at 300rpm that is 5 shells a second) and then it can wait for the result... as targets are hit follow up shells could be fired or new targets engaged... and this is in addition to short range missiles like Pantsir or VERBA or Morfei or indeed Kinzhal (Naval TOR) at leakers.

If a single 30mmx165mm shell can destroy an F-15, it sill do the same to a harpoon, kongsberg, brimstone, JSOW or whatever. And I dont see NATO putting armor on their AShMs soon. They're too busy drooling over stealth. There is absolutely no point in increasing CIWS calibre, only increasing its shell velocity, electronics, and ROF.

If I recall, Redut was not on the list of equipments.

Isos wrote:

If I recall, Redut was not on the list of equipments.

Maybe not the lunchers but they could have upgraded radars to S-400 lvl and missiles will go in the big lunchers. And they can use the bigger missiles, which is not possible with the redut.

hoom wrote:I guess that's the big mystery: Logically having removed the Kinzhal presumably something is going there instead, Redut would be the obvious candidate.

A naval version of the Tor-M2U is being developed by Izhevsk Electromechanical Plant Kupol for integration on to the Russian Navy vessels.