Acheron wrote:Why is there so much displeasure at the venerable 7.62x54R cartridge in this thread? I hope everyone realizes that it is service weapons that are made according to the available cartridges and not vice versa. Hence, armies do not just introduce new cartridges because of the "new flavour of the day" that happens to come around, unless there is a readily apparent lack in capabilities in the current line up. Can someone tell me what are these glaring deficiencies in the 7.62x54R that seem to necessitate it's lengthy and very costly replacement (money that the military can spend to address more pressing matters)? Most unbiased arms enthusiasts seem to highly praise this cartridge, so I don't see why it couldn't persist as a designated marksman/general purpose MG cartridge for some time.
The displeasure with 8mm Russian, comes from the fact that the round's lineage comes from the Franco-Prussian war.It's and old ammunition that can't be technically evolved anymore. But, granted, it's a puncher, it's a straight shooter, has immense energy and makes horrible wounds.
While much of the "public" hate on the 8mmR comes from Americunt ninja malls who can't have triple negative sub moa groups, the guys being at the receiving ends of both the round and the systems being built to fire it, tell a diversely different story. Yet, the Soviets, Russians and even the Chinese have tried to make better rounds out of it. 6,5R (6,5x54R) initially used a 8mmR casing. Still unmatched in sportive shooting.
However, the problem of the round comes from the rim center-fire design which makes necessary contraptions for feeding and extraction on most weapons it is used in select fire. Those small things complicate Select fire weapons design both in operation and performance. Other than that, it's a fabulous dinosaur.
Also given how much the Soviets and Russians have tested the similar casings as the LapMag (Mauser Magnum, 8mm Mauser) I wouldn't say it is the "flavour of the day". It's rather the fact Americans have "invented"/started using the damn thing that suddenly it becomes this new hot round everyone must have. Same for the 6,5 Grendel. or the 6,8 SPC. Soviets Been there done that.
Personally seen how the Unified round was promising and extensively tested, a "new" weapon for it was the only thing needed. And as the Russian designers are making new weapons (Zid Tokar, Whole AK-12SN family, new sport rifles like the Saiga-MK/AK15, plus the bolt actions that need no complex proofing etc etc etc).
Maybe it was time to try and incorporate something new.
Also switching from M43, 7N family to .223 is the dumbest thing to do (especially with countries like Finland, done that and gone back to 7N family). The .223 is a dead end.