Midlife? So its going to retire by 2026, probably not.
Maybe it is so. The hull was not in a very good state when they took it. It was only ever intended so they could copy and test it to finally build their own.
They spent over 7 years getting the vessel back to top shape. Including miles of new cables. They only recently modified it with a new bridge. I would think that the Lianong is in much better shape the old Kuznetsov. The PLAN plan is to have 6 active carriers as soon as possible, the Lianong isnt going anywhere for some time.
Tsavo Lion wrote:The hull had a thin rust layer but otherwise good. with proper care, it could last longer than expected, esp. since it'll be in the tropical & moderate climates instead of the Barents Sea.
Did you say a thin rust layer???
When it is not cleaned and painted regularly the damage multiplies exponentially.
That's what Chinese inspectors found before its sale: it was acceptable. I wouldn't exclude the possibility that the original sheet metal was a few millimeters thicker than needed to allow for corrosion, wear & tear. In any case, the rust wouldn't be uniformly bad & therefore detrimental to the entire hull.
Tsavo Lion wrote:That's what Chinese inspectors found before its sale: it was acceptable. I wouldn't exclude the possibility that the original sheet metal was a few millimeters thicker than needed to allow for corrosion, wear & tear. In any case, the rust wouldn't be uniformly bad & therefore detrimental to the entire hull.
Chinese inspectors also cleared the Kiev, Minsk and Melbourne for purchase as well. After a long line of wasted money the Chinese carrier programme had to make a move and the Varyag was the last stop. When it was stuck in the Dardanelles a group of French landed on the deck by way of helicopter leaving graffiti and urinating on its deck. They sad the rust was so thick it crumbled under their feet.
Still, not bad for combat capable training ship they were not afraid of sending to the SC Sea, around Taiwan & into the W. Pacific. Now they r modernizing it; may install new things for testing for future CV/Ns.
Tsavo Lion wrote:That's what Chinese inspectors found before its sale: it was acceptable. I wouldn't exclude the possibility that the original sheet metal was a few millimeters thicker than needed to allow for corrosion, wear & tear. In any case, the rust wouldn't be uniformly bad & therefore detrimental to the entire hull.
Chinese inspectors also cleared the Kiev, Minsk and Melbourne for purchase as well. After a long line of wasted money the Chinese carrier programme had to make a move and the Varyag was the last stop. When it was stuck in the Dardanelles a group of French landed on the deck by way of helicopter leaving graffiti and urinating on its deck. They sad the rust was so thick it crumbled under their feet.
And today it is in better shape than kuznetsov. And rust wasn't a probleme to study the ship.
It was a big help for their carrier program for sure.
And today it is in better shape than kuznetsov. And rust wasn't a probleme to study the ship.
It was a big help for their carrier program for sure.
China spent more money refurbishing and repairing the hull than it would have cost to build a new one. They even admit they bought it for the purpose of training only. Of course reverse engineering was the biggest reason. What they wanted most of all was a CATOBAR carrier which is why they bought Melbourne and have the ultimate goal of imitating French and American carriers.
Catobar are made only by US after nearly 80 years of experience.
French one uses US tech.
Melbourne is old and not helpfull for designing modern carriers, let alone supercarriers of 100kt.
Varyag is the only one that allowed them to build copies of russian designs. Their own catobar just like indian's ones need to prove something. In my opinion they will fail just like they did with the j-15 but at least they will go ahead.
China spent more money refurbishing and repairing the hull than it would have cost to build a new one.
That was true with the Indian STOBAR Vikramaditia, not the CV-16. The hull was fine, didn't need big repairs; there was nothing to refurbish, as it was an empty shell except perhaps the boilers; all gear & weapons systems were new & had to be made anyway. They were building many other ships while taking their time working on it. OTH, if they tried to build a new CV from scratch, it would've been too risky. They've done similar things with subs, aircraft, guns, tanks, & missiles. No need to "invent the wheel".
That was true with the Indian STOBAR Vikramaditia, not the CV-16. The hull was fine, didn't need big repairs; there was nothing to refurbish, as it was an empty shell except perhaps the boilers; all gear & weapons systems were new & had to be made anyway. They were building many other ships while taking their time working on it. OTH, if they tried to build a new CV from scratch, it would've been too risky. They've done similar things with subs, aircraft, guns, tanks, & missiles. No need to "invent the wheel".
You saw how fast they built their clone, that is several times less man hours than they put into refurbishing the Varyag.
Isos wrote:Catobar are made only by US after nearly 80 years of experience.
French one uses US tech.
Melbourne is old and not helpfull for designing modern carriers, let alone supercarriers of 100kt.
....
I've been reading on HMAS Melbourne and that ship was involved in two ramming incidents with British and American destroyers in which total of 150 people died
Interesting part is that Melbourne's motto was "She Gathers Strength As She Goes"
Tsavo Lion wrote: OTH, if they tried to build a new CV from scratch, it would've been too risky. They've done similar things with subs, aircraft, guns, tanks, & missiles. No need to "invent the wheel".
You saw how fast they built their clone, that is several times less man hours than they put into refurbishing the Varyag.
They built other big ships before, & having something to clone from after it was completed with improvements insured that costly mistakes were avoided. It was a worthy investment & as a result, they now mastered how to repair & build them.
On April 8, 2019, the engineering company Qingdao Wuchuan Heavy Industry (part of the state-owned shipbuilding corporation China Shipbuilding Industry Corp-CSIC) demonstrated the world's first amphibious unmanned high-speed conveyor “Sea lizard” developed and produced at this enterprise.
Reportedly, the conveyor has the following technical characteristics: Length is 12 meters; Width is 4.14 meters; Maximum speed - up to 50 knots.
The Marine Lizard is equipped with an advanced navigation and fire control system that includes the Beidou navigation system receiver, a situational awareness system that combines images from high-quality cameras of visible and infrared light with readings from lidars and radars. All these data are either transmitted to a remote control center, which can be placed on a large surface ship of the PLA Navy.
Amphibious, unmanned, high-speed conveyor is designed for operations on disputed islands in the South China Sea, such as: high-speed water delivery, landing of an amphibious assault force on an unequipped coast, supply of military units deployed on artificial reefs controlled by the People’s Republic of China in the Spratly island and in the same vein. -Chinese Sea, protection and patrol of the coastal zone.
And another interesting "cloned" development from the PRC.
The Chinese company Shaanxi Baoji Special Vehicles Manufacturing Co., Ltd, a large manufacturer of light armored vehicles, presented an amphibious vehicle for the needs of the PLA army special forces as part of a public-private partnership.
The first detailed report of CCTV about the new Chinese basic patrol aircraft GX-6 (Y-8Q) was released.
Patrol / anti-submarine aircraft Y-8GX6 (Y-8Q), created on the basis of the average transport aircraft Y-8 / Y-9 and produced by Shaanxi Aircraft Corporation (SAC). The aircraft is equipped with four turboprop engines WJ-6C (six blades on each) and is designed to equip the coastal aviation of the Northern, then the Southern Fleet of the PLA. The Y-8Q is equipped with an onboard radar to search for sea targets, an optical-electronic station and a magnetometer for searching submarines (magnetic anomaly detector).
On the bmpd side, let's add that the Chinese Y-8GX6 aircraft (Gaoxin 6, sometimes the Y-8Q index is used) became the first modern base patrol aircraft in China. The aircraft was created on the basis of a deep modernization (the so-called "Platform III") of an average four-engine turboprop transport aircraft Y-8 - a modification of a licensed copy of the Soviet An-12 produced by the Chinese aircraft manufacturer Shaanxi Aircraft Corporation (SAC) in Hanzhong (Shaanxi province).
The first two prototypes built for the Y-8GX6 were first seen at the SAC factory airfield in November 2011. The mass production of the Y-8GX6 began, presumably in 2015. The creation of the search and sight system of the aircraft was allegedly carried out by the CAIC Electronics group in Chengdu.
GarryB wrote:It is a start though, and should be encouraged....
If WWIII starts I can't see the US limiting itself as to who it launches nuclear weapons towards...
All of these things are very expensive. The Chinese think money grows on trees and keeps pushing their debt pile bigger and bigger. It is much better for us to have a fiscally stable China with a smaller military than a bankrupt China that has a military rotting like ours did.
miketheterrible wrote:Money did grow on trees as it was made of paper. Now it grows in a facility processed by oil as its mostly plastic.
Lets not kid ourselves, current financial markets in China and US is pure bullshit and made of funny money.
The US created a property bubble and paid for it with the sub-prime mortgage crisis. China has done the same thing times 10 but has yet to suffer the effects of it going bust.
All of these things are very expensive. The Chinese think money grows on trees and keeps pushing their debt pile bigger and bigger. It is much better for us to have a fiscally stable China with a smaller military than a bankrupt China that has a military rotting like ours did.
China needs to secure its oil import first to be a real threat to anyone. As long as Russia or US can destroy their tankers their army will be a dragon only on paper.
Tabks, ships and planes won't go anywhere if their oil import is halted for a month.
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