The Situation in the Ukraine. #25

Karl Haushofer wrote:An old Russian city of Odessa continues to rename its public places: https://lenta.ru/news/2016/06/11/zhukov/

(...)

The junta in Kiev is determined to rid these traditional Russian cities from their Russian past.
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Khepesh wrote:I think people can see in other places that a lot happens again tonight. Of interest is the reports of heavy artillery and MLRS strikes in the area between Yasinovataya and western Makeevka. I presume that any response is not as it will cause WWIII? if so, then head for the bunkers if the current rumors are true, but rumors are rumors and nothing but vapor until something happens. But if any response is what many would call "adequate" is another matter....

auslander wrote:

Khepesh wrote:I think people can see in other places that a lot happens again tonight. Of interest is the reports of heavy artillery and MLRS strikes in the area between Yasinovataya and western Makeevka. I presume that any response is not as it will cause WWIII? if so, then head for the bunkers if the current rumors are true, but rumors are rumors and nothing but vapor until something happens. But if any response is what many would call "adequate" is another matter....

It was indeed a difficult night all along the lines. I do not know of, if any, counter battery fire from NAF against the orcs. However, it is patently obvious that the orcs now have very well trained arty spotters and observers to target and correct fire. They are doing the same thing as last year, methodically destroying all infrastructure they can plus terrorizing the citizens.

Just read the latest OSCE report. What a farce.

Boshoed wrote:According to TV ZVEZDA a Ukrainian BMP 2 was destroyed in Donetsk, by the Novorossyian's.

eehnie wrote:- Russia has not territorial apetite over territories without a clear local support.
- The most likely areas for new battles are inside the Donetsk and Luhansk Oblasts, and are in contact with the current frontline (Stanytsia Luhanska, Mariupol, Avdeevka and Dzerzhinsk-Torets). This would come first.
- Russia does not want a global war.

sepheronx wrote:It's so strong that it is falling apart? Ukraine cannot hold itself. Nor is capable of doing anything now economically. What it was in the past was gone over a thousand years ago. It is nothing, was nothing and will be nothing. It will end up as a two bit buffer country and nothing more. They can't take care of their own, constant protests, people being murdered left and right. And alienating a huge part of the population won't make it strong. Crimea is a huge chunk lost. Donetsk and Lugansk are another large and wealthier chunk gone too.

sepheronx wrote:I also think Russia's inaction has caused a blow back, and even Russians themselves are really pissed at Putin and Lavrov over it. But matter of fact is, Ukraine is a shithole lost to everyone. Funny thing too, there is quite a few Ukrainians that post on /pol/ who are sympathetic to Russia and dislike their own system. So not everyone is engraved into their idiotic system.

KiloGolf wrote:

eehnie wrote:- Russia has not territorial apetite over territories without a clear local support.
- The most likely areas for new battles are inside the Donetsk and Luhansk Oblasts, and are in contact with the current frontline (Stanytsia Luhanska, Mariupol, Avdeevka and Dzerzhinsk-Torets). This would come first.
- Russia does not want a global war.

Russia has/had no idea how to influence Ukrainians, if they did this mess wouldn't be as catastrophic as it is. The fact that Russia allowed basically an "anti-Russia" to grow and evolve right on its border, often encouraging it, shows how flawed their policies have been for the past three decades (or more).

Ukraine right now is geographically a mini-USSR under control of anti-Russia politics and tremendously strong ideology. Stronger than Putin's polls will ever be. The danger here is that Ukraine post-USSR and now post-Maidan is not just a country under a coup regime. It is a pseudo-nation under construction, huge landmass, big population with strong ideology to resist and erase anything Russian. Why did that happen? Combination of communism eroding national awareness, imposed language change, post-USSR history falsification, violence, coup, Russia's approval (on and off) and now war.

Kiev is the cultural birthplaces of all Russias, that is Belarus, Russia and Ukraine (not Lvov). If Russia (as in the Federation) lets one of the Russia's fall, they are next as they will have shown weakness. Crimea and barely half of Donetsk/Lugansk are peanuts to gain or hold compared to loosing places like Odessa, Kharkov, Kiev, Poltava, etc.

The same applies to a lesser extent with northern Kazakhstan, swathes of Russian lands were given away just because of the fake USSR borders. Now with them moving their capital right in the North that is also pretty much lost.

Sometimes inaction is enough to bring problems. Others just take advantage of things and who would blame them.
Russia may not want war, but they allowed it to brew and blow up on their faces.

"I appeal to the Ukrainian military-political leadership. We know about the presence of ATO units and artillery in the area of the Avdeevka coke plant. We strongly reccomend that you remove your weapons and equipment from the area or we will have to respond, and the responce will not wait long."

GarryB wrote:So the problem with Russia is that it does not know how to manipulate the Ukrainians and force them to be friends. Russia 'let' the Ukrainians become anti Russian?

GarryB wrote:At the end of the day there are plenty of Ukrainians who don't hate Russia... many of them live in separatist regions as we speak and are being attacked by their neighbours for their beliefs.

GarryB wrote:You can blame anyone you like but the ultimate responsibility lies with the Ukrainians themselves and they are going to have to live with the broken states that result from their action or inaction.

GarryB wrote:Any action Russia might have taken as an alternative to what it actually did would have been no better, yet could have been potentially much worse.

Russia tried everything they could to keep the Ukraine on side, including continuing to buy their military products when they could have just as easily invested in their own economy to develop their own domestic alternatives.