Russia Defence Forum

Would you like to react to this message? Create an account in a few clicks or log in to continue.

Military Forum for Russian and Global Defence Issues


+36
ALAMO
Kiko
Mindstorm
LMFS
Isos
d_taddei2
mnztr
Arrow
owais.usmani
Viktor
Tsavo Lion
flamming_python
kvs
PapaDragon
dino00
hoom
verkhoturye51
Hole
franco
Singular_Transform
victor1985
GunshipDemocracy
Werewolf
sepheronx
Big_Gazza
Backinblack
Rmf
GarryB
max steel
magnumcromagnon
zg18
JohninMK
artjomh
Morpheus Eberhardt
Stealthflanker
George1
40 posters

    Poseidon carrier Submarines

    Gibraltar
    Gibraltar


    Posts : 39
    Points : 41
    Join date : 2018-09-22

    Poseidon carrier Submarines - Page 8 Empty Re: Poseidon carrier Submarines

    Post  Gibraltar Fri Oct 01, 2021 6:45 pm

    Maybe that huges torpedo tubes lide are yet visible from this shot?

    Gibraltar
    Gibraltar


    Posts : 39
    Points : 41
    Join date : 2018-09-22

    Poseidon carrier Submarines - Page 8 Empty Re: Poseidon carrier Submarines

    Post  Gibraltar Fri Oct 01, 2021 6:46 pm

    https://thebarentsobserver.com/sites/default/files/styles/full_width/public/belgorod.jpeg

    Sorry some issue to insert the picture link

    GarryB likes this post

    George1
    George1


    Posts : 17647
    Points : 18154
    Join date : 2011-12-22
    Location : Greece

    Poseidon carrier Submarines - Page 8 Empty Re: Poseidon carrier Submarines

    Post  George1 Sat Dec 25, 2021 2:48 pm

    State tests of the special purpose submarine "Belgorod" will be completed in 2022

    https://tass.ru/armiya-i-opk/13299517

    GarryB, medo, dino00, Big_Gazza and Hole like this post

    Krepost
    Krepost


    Posts : 450
    Points : 450
    Join date : 2021-12-08

    Poseidon carrier Submarines - Page 8 Empty Re: Poseidon carrier Submarines

    Post  Krepost Wed Jan 12, 2022 4:30 pm

    BELGOROD
    Poseidon carrier Submarines - Page 8 30-94311

    GarryB, George1, dino00, Big_Gazza and LMFS like this post

    Podlodka77
    Podlodka77


    Posts : 564
    Points : 566
    Join date : 2022-01-06
    Location : Z

    Poseidon carrier Submarines - Page 8 Empty 09851 Khabarovsk class

    Post  Podlodka77 Thu Jan 13, 2022 4:51 pm

    There are no available data about 09851 Khabarovsk class submarine dimensions ; length, width, total displacement, crew, etc, but judging by this completely unreliable picture this could submarine below 150 meters in length.
    The mystery surrounding this Khabarovsk submarine is enormous or like in "good old" Soviet times.

    Poseidon carrier Submarines - Page 8 15923110

    GarryB, dino00, Big_Gazza and Krepost like this post

    Podlodka77
    Podlodka77


    Posts : 564
    Points : 566
    Join date : 2022-01-06
    Location : Z

    Poseidon carrier Submarines - Page 8 Empty "Sevmash" reported on the construction of the submarine "Belgorod"

    Post  Podlodka77 Thu Jan 20, 2022 3:43 pm

    "Sevmash" reported on the construction of the submarine "Belgorod"
    The head of "Sevmash" Budnichenko: the construction of the special purpose submarine "Belgorod" is being completed

    MOSCOW, January 20 - RIA Novosti. The construction of the Belgorod special-purpose nuclear submarine (NPS) is at the final stage, Mikhail Budnichenko, general director of the Sevmash plant (Severodvinsk), said.
    Earlier, a RIA Novosti source in the military-industrial complex said that tests of the Belgorod nuclear submarine, the carrier of the Poseidon marine drones, were to be completed at Sevmash last fall.
    The Belgorod multi-purpose nuclear submarine is an experimental development for Poseidon drones, launched in April 2019 at Sevmash. The boat originally belonged to project 949A "Antey" (similar to "Kursk"), which was redesigned into project 09852 specifically for the Poseidon system

    Nuclear submarine "Khabarovsk" - regular carrier "Poseidons". All characteristics of this submarine are classified.
    The development of Poseidon was first announced by President Vladimir Putin in a message to the Federal Assembly in 2018. According to him, such drones can be equipped with both conventional and nuclear weapons, which will allow them to hit a wide range of targets, including aircraft carrier groups, coastal fortifications and infrastructure.

    https://ria.ru/20220120/podlodka-1768657074.html



    dino00, PapaDragon, LMFS and Hole like this post

    Big_Gazza
    Big_Gazza


    Posts : 3407
    Points : 3405
    Join date : 2014-08-25
    Location : Melbourne, Australia

    Poseidon carrier Submarines - Page 8 Empty Re: Poseidon carrier Submarines

    Post  Big_Gazza Fri Jan 21, 2022 1:38 am

    Has anyone considered the idea that Belgorod is designed to launch and recover Poseidon drones?  The docking arrangement for connection of specialist deepwater subs like Losharik could conceivably include a moon-pool arrangement that could be used to recover the drones and stack them on racks internally?

    If this was the case, it would resolve why so many people think that the Belgorod design doesn't make sense - why equip a deep-sea sub tender with doomsday nukes? If the above is the case, she is a dedicated UUV tender that can double as a mothership for manned spy subs.

    It would also add weight to the idea that Posiedons aren't launched on Doomsday, but on routine patrols, maybe lasting months, and then recovered and returned to shore for inspection, refurbishment, repair, refulled if needed, and maybe download of detailed logfiles and data store.

    A lot of conjecture here...  but if it turns out to be true, and if it works reliably, it would be a truly massive paradigm change for Sea Power capabilities.  Eg a conventional armed version could track USN carriers and be available 24/7 for a kill on short notice...   Twisted Evil

    dino00, zardof, LMFS, Hole, lyle6, lancelot, Broski and Krepost like this post

    LMFS
    LMFS


    Posts : 4475
    Points : 4475
    Join date : 2018-03-03

    Poseidon carrier Submarines - Page 8 Empty Re: Poseidon carrier Submarines

    Post  LMFS Fri Jan 21, 2022 3:28 am

    Big_Gazza wrote:Has anyone considered the idea that Belgorod is designed to launch and recover Poseidon drones?  The docking arrangement for connection of specialist deepwater subs like Losharik could conceivably include a moon-pool arrangement that could be used to recover the drones and stack them on racks internally?

    If this was the case, it would resolve why so many people think that the Belgorod design doesn't make sense - why equip a deep-sea sub tender with doomsday nukes? If the above is the case, she is a dedicated UUV tender that can double as a mothership for manned spy subs.

    It would also add weight to the idea that Posiedons aren't launched on Doomsday, but on routine patrols, maybe lasting months, and then recovered and returned to shore for inspection, refurbishment, repair, refulled if needed, and maybe download of detailed logfiles and data store.

    A lot of conjecture here...  but if it turns out to be true, and if it works reliably, it would be a truly massive paradigm change for Sea Power capabilities. Eg a conventional armed version could track USN carriers and be available 24/7 for a kill on short notice...  Twisted Evil

    Good observation, such role for Poseidon has been indeed hinted, but their use as a conventional weapon that can be launched and recovered and used for sea control on a continuous way has been eclipsed by its possibilities as strategic one. We were discussing in other thread about the need to create unmanned subs to compensate the advantage in USN sub numbers, which are the most difficult to counter for Russia currently, and Poseidon would be ideal in that role indeed. It would be very difficult for a bigger sub to avoid being tracked by way smaller, silent and numerous ones, with essentially unlimited endurance and besides capable to operate at extreme depths or wait in the bottom for weeks for "prey" to pass by... I would not be surprised if such an operational concept is unveiled in the next few years, as I am sure the kind of capabilities tested in Vityaz where not purely civilian. It could even threaten the submarine part of the US (and British and French) nuclear forces and that would be extremely concerning for them, in particular for those two later countries it would essentially mean removing them from the club of nuclear powers altogether...

    dino00, Big_Gazza, lancelot and Broski like this post

    Big_Gazza
    Big_Gazza


    Posts : 3407
    Points : 3405
    Join date : 2014-08-25
    Location : Melbourne, Australia

    Poseidon carrier Submarines - Page 8 Empty Re: Poseidon carrier Submarines

    Post  Big_Gazza Fri Jan 21, 2022 4:10 am

    There is of course no reason why, if this is the case, that a Poseidon tender needs to be a submersible. I'm thinking that for Russian & Arctic waters at least, the tender could be a specialist surface ship with an underwater moon pool and deployable manipulators to assist launch and recovery. Enemy survelliance could track her as she patrols but they won't know for certain when and where she performs launch and recovery. Not as stealthy as a sub tender, but vastly cheaper to build and operate.
    Broski
    Broski


    Posts : 283
    Points : 285
    Join date : 2021-07-12

    Poseidon carrier Submarines - Page 8 Empty Re: Poseidon carrier Submarines

    Post  Broski Fri Jan 21, 2022 2:54 pm

    Big_Gazza wrote:There is of course no reason why, if this is the case, that a Poseidon tender needs to be a submersible.  I'm thinking that for Russian & Arctic waters at least, the tender could be a specialist surface ship with an underwater moon pool and deployable manipulators to assist launch and recovery.  Enemy survelliance could track her as she patrols but they won't know for certain when and where she performs launch and recovery. Not as stealthy as a sub tender, but vastly cheaper to build and operate.

    Why wouldn't Russia develop a submersible with dual use? As you said, a surface ship carrying poseidons can be tracked and would be a priority target in the event of a major conflict, while a submarine by its very nature is hard to track, especially one that can submerge to 600m. Russia would have a significant strategic advantage over НА́ТО if Belgorod can launch and recover UUV's.
    Hole
    Hole


    Posts : 6362
    Points : 6350
    Join date : 2018-03-24
    Age : 46
    Location : Scholzistan

    Poseidon carrier Submarines - Page 8 Empty Re: Poseidon carrier Submarines

    Post  Hole Fri Jan 21, 2022 8:33 pm

    The launch is not an IF. It´s a sure thing. But most of the time the Poseidon is called a "super-torpedo" which means launch, travel, impact. Bumm. In the case of Poseidon the travel phase could be weeks or even month. If the sub can also recover the UUV then it could be used for deterrence or even recon missions just like a sub.
    PapaDragon
    PapaDragon


    Posts : 12195
    Points : 12255
    Join date : 2015-04-26
    Location : Fort Evil, Serbia

    Poseidon carrier Submarines - Page 8 Empty Re: Poseidon carrier Submarines

    Post  PapaDragon Fri Jan 21, 2022 10:46 pm

    Big_Gazza wrote:Has anyone considered the idea that Belgorod is designed to launch and recover Poseidon drones?...

    It's not recovering anything, least of all nuclear WMD

    Poseidons are carried on Belgorod because that sub has surplus real estate in the front which would otherwise go completely unused in solely spy role so they decided to put it to use

    And if they wanted to develop nuclear sub drone they would develop proper one instead of basing one on such constrained platform
    GarryB
    GarryB


    Posts : 33185
    Points : 33699
    Join date : 2010-03-30
    Location : New Zealand

    Poseidon carrier Submarines - Page 8 Empty Re: Poseidon carrier Submarines

    Post  GarryB Sat Jan 22, 2022 3:55 am

    Leads to the issue of the west frantically trying to keep tabs on this sub which makes it priority number one, which would limit its ability to do other things.

    In contrast having a drone version of Poseidon with no nuke warhead might be useful in general peace time rather than tying the subs and weapons up like ICBMs are really only useful for one thing... well satellite launcher when they approach expiry date.

    A tricky thing.
    Krepost
    Krepost


    Posts : 450
    Points : 450
    Join date : 2021-12-08

    Poseidon carrier Submarines - Page 8 Empty Re: Poseidon carrier Submarines

    Post  Krepost Sun Jan 23, 2022 10:47 pm

    Fresh video (but event is from summer-time) of Belgorod:

    GarryB, George1 and Hole like this post

    Hole
    Hole


    Posts : 6362
    Points : 6350
    Join date : 2018-03-24
    Age : 46
    Location : Scholzistan

    Poseidon carrier Submarines - Page 8 Empty Re: Poseidon carrier Submarines

    Post  Hole Mon Jan 24, 2022 1:25 pm

    Poseidon carrier Submarines - Page 8 Scree110
    Are there some openings/doors under the tower?

    GarryB, George1 and Podlodka77 like this post

    GarryB
    GarryB


    Posts : 33185
    Points : 33699
    Join date : 2010-03-30
    Location : New Zealand

    Poseidon carrier Submarines - Page 8 Empty Re: Poseidon carrier Submarines

    Post  GarryB Tue Jan 25, 2022 5:50 am

    It makes sense to put doors at deck level for access because otherwise climbing up to the top of the sail and then back down the same height to get to the inner hull inside the submarine would require an external ladder and lots of climbing.
    Podlodka77
    Podlodka77


    Posts : 564
    Points : 566
    Join date : 2022-01-06
    Location : Z

    Poseidon carrier Submarines - Page 8 Empty Re: Poseidon carrier Submarines

    Post  Podlodka77 Tue Jan 25, 2022 8:46 am

    Hole wrote:Poseidon carrier Submarines - Page 8 Scree110
    Are there some openings/doors under the tower?

    Did you notice under the conning tower 4 "covers" in the hull itself ?
    Hole
    Hole


    Posts : 6362
    Points : 6350
    Join date : 2018-03-24
    Age : 46
    Location : Scholzistan

    Poseidon carrier Submarines - Page 8 Empty Re: Poseidon carrier Submarines

    Post  Hole Tue Jan 25, 2022 12:24 pm

    Bingo. That´s why I wrote "under the tower". Rolling Eyes

    Podlodka77
    Podlodka77


    Posts : 564
    Points : 566
    Join date : 2022-01-06
    Location : Z

    Poseidon carrier Submarines - Page 8 Empty Re: Poseidon carrier Submarines

    Post  Podlodka77 Wed Jan 26, 2022 8:12 pm

    The K-329 Belgorod submarine will be handed over to the Russian Navy this summer, most likely on the day of the Russian Navy - July 31.

    https://tass.ru/armiya-i-opk/13525603

    franco, George1 and dino00 like this post


    Sponsored content


    Poseidon carrier Submarines - Page 8 Empty Re: Poseidon carrier Submarines

    Post  Sponsored content


      Current date/time is Fri May 20, 2022 2:21 am