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    Poseidon carrier Submarines

    GunshipDemocracy
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    Post  GunshipDemocracy Sat Jul 09, 2022 1:14 am

    LMFS wrote:"The presence of these weapons will allow the Navy to solve a wide range of tasks in the far sea zone, in waters close to the enemy's territory," Vladimir Korolev, then commander - in - chief of the Russian Navy, said in 2018.

    I wouldn't exclude USN carrier groups or US navy "invasion groupings" . BTW when Ben Wallace will start talking about nuke strikes against Russia Zakharova shall just remind him: Ben, Poseidon. lol1 lol1 lol1

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    Post  LMFS Sat Jul 09, 2022 2:54 am

    GunshipDemocracy wrote:I wouldn't exclude USN carrier groups or US navy "invasion groupings"  .  BTW when Ben Wallace will start talking about nuke strikes against Russia Zakharova shall just remind him: Ben, Poseidon. lol1 lol1 lol1

    Sure! Dealing with surface fleets is rather easy with Tsirkon, at lest in the medium term. But subs are a substantial problem (think the numbers of SSGNs in USN or the SSBN controlled by rabid Russophobes in UK) and Poseidon is a great remedy against them pirat

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    Post  GunshipDemocracy Sat Jul 09, 2022 3:46 am

    LMFS wrote:
    GunshipDemocracy wrote:I wouldn't exclude USN carrier groups or US navy "invasion groupings"  .  BTW when Ben Wallace will start talking about nuke strikes against Russia Zakharova shall just remind him: Ben, Poseidon. lol1 lol1 lol1

    Sure! Dealing with surface fleets is rather easy with Tsirkon, at lest in the medium term. But subs are a substantial problem (think the numbers of SSGNs in USN or the SSBN controlled by rabid Russophobes in UK) and Poseidon is a great remedy against them pirat


    haha not only in UK but since London can be reached by small radioactive Tsunami...

    a s for surface fleets I respectfully disagree. Zircon carrier needs to com close - like 1000km and can be seen by AWACS. Poseidon carrier remains deep and can used to kill carrier form deep. With a nuke perhaps the whole groupings. But why not to combine? Zircon form above Poseidons below?
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    Post  GarryB Sat Jul 09, 2022 6:23 am

    a s for surface fleets I respectfully disagree. Zircon carrier needs to com close - like 1000km and can be seen by AWACS. Poseidon carrier remains deep and can used to kill carrier form deep. With a nuke perhaps the whole groupings. But why not to combine? Zircon form above Poseidons below?

    You mean like a Zircon carrier like Yasen? Zircon is primarily a replacement for Onyx/Yakhont and is a ship and sub launched missile... at 500km the AWACS might notice the missile being launched and climbing, but I doubt it.

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    Post  LMFS Sat Jul 09, 2022 10:29 am

    GarryB wrote:You mean like a Zircon carrier like Yasen? Zircon is primarily a replacement for Onyx/Yakhont and is a ship and sub launched missile... at 500km the AWACS might notice the missile being launched and climbing, but I doubt it.

    Exactly. Tsirkon has a range between 1000 km (supposedly sea targets) and 1500 km (land targets), that is more than enough for a sub to get in range of a CBG, fire a whole salvo and flee with impunity. At such ranges the AWACS may see the missiles coming (plasma sheath has some effects in that regard), but be useless to stop them, and the ASW grouping cannot operate effectively at such distances or over such areas, that is more than 3 million square km to search for an almost invisible, moving target... the only real problem Russia has still is that USN has a lot of SSNs they can dedicate to permanently track their own Tsirkon carriers, and that is one of the issues Poseidon may allow to handle in a radically different way. Of course PLAN numbers help here, but that is IMO also the reason why so many modernised SS(G)Ns are coming back to service between 2022 and 2024, not only 949AM able to carry Tsirkon themselves but also 971 that may be destined to provide cover. It is still too early to know if they can carry Tsirkon too, or some version of it, they have 650 mm torpedo tubes capable for the Kalibr-PL. Still good enough as USN sub hunters in any case.

    Martyanov wrote about the Poseidon yesterday BTW, he notices the choir of wailing Western voices calling for prohibition of such weapons altogether... **** off losers, you made your bed now sleep in it

    https://smoothiex12.blogspot.com/2022/07/belgorod-is-in.html

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    Post  sepheronx Sat Jul 09, 2022 11:39 am

    LMFS wrote:
    GarryB wrote:You mean like a Zircon carrier like Yasen? Zircon is primarily a replacement for Onyx/Yakhont and is a ship and sub launched missile... at 500km the AWACS might notice the missile being launched and climbing, but I doubt it.

    Exactly. Tsirkon has a range between 1000 km (supposedly sea targets) and 1500 km (land targets), that is more than enough for a sub to get in range of a CBG, fire a whole salvo and flee with impunity. At such ranges the AWACS may  see the missiles coming (plasma sheath has some effects in that regard), but be useless to stop them, and the ASW grouping cannot operate effectively at such distances or over such areas, that is more than 3 million square km to search for an almost invisible, moving target... the only real problem Russia has still is that USN has a lot of SSNs they can dedicate to permanently track their own Tsirkon carriers, and that is one of the issues Poseidon may allow to handle in a radically different way. Of course PLAN numbers help here, but that is IMO also the reason why so many modernised SS(G)Ns are coming back to service between 2022 and 2024, not only 949AM able to carry Tsirkon themselves but also 971 that may be destined to provide cover. It is still too early to know if they can carry Tsirkon too, or some version of it, they have 650 mm torpedo tubes capable for the Kalibr-PL. Still good enough as USN sub hunters in any case.

    Martyanov wrote about the Poseidon yesterday BTW, he notices the choir of wailing Western voices calling for prohibition of such weapons altogether... **** off losers, you made your bed now sleep in it

    https://smoothiex12.blogspot.com/2022/07/belgorod-is-in.html


    Zircon can and will be used on Kilo's as well since they can launch through the torpedo tube. Already works with Kalibr.

    At that point, it gives far more reach than the US would like, and then wears down their ability to try and track all the subs.
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    Post  LMFS Sat Jul 09, 2022 12:41 pm

    sepheronx wrote:Zircon can and will be used on Kilo's as well since they can launch through the torpedo tube.  Already works with Kalibr.

    At that point, it gives far more reach than the US would like, and then wears down their ability to try and track all the subs.

    Of course that would make a lot of sense, but by now it seems it is just for vertical launch, and the diameter of the missile seems too big for the the 533 mm tubes. But there was talk about a reduced size version if I am not wrong, and in principle I don't see why tube launch could not be feasible. So yes, USN has reasons to worry now and in the future.
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    Post  sepheronx Sat Jul 09, 2022 12:43 pm

    LMFS wrote:
    sepheronx wrote:Zircon can and will be used on Kilo's as well since they can launch through the torpedo tube.  Already works with Kalibr.

    At that point, it gives far more reach than the US would like, and then wears down their ability to try and track all the subs.

    Of course that would make a lot of sense, but by now it seems it is just for vertical launch, and the diameter of the missile seems too big for the the 533 mm tubes. But there was talk about a reduced size version if I am not wrong, and in principle I don't see why tube launch could not be feasible. So yes, USN has reasons to worry now and in the future.

    Reduced size will come soon enough, probably already being worked on as we speak as its also supposed to be used for the airforce (or airforce variant, not sure).

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    Post  GunshipDemocracy Sun Jul 10, 2022 7:13 am

    sepheronx wrote:
    Of course that would make a lot of sense, but by now it seems it is just for vertical launch, and the diameter of the missile seems too big for the the 533 mm tubes. But there was talk about a reduced size version if I am not wrong, and in principle I don't see why tube launch could not be feasible. So yes, USN has reasons to worry now and in the future.

    Reduced size will come soon enough, probably already being worked on as we speak as its also supposed to be used for the air force (or airforce variant, not sure).[/quote]

    when you look in diameter of Kh-15 (carried in Tu-22 bomb ay - ~52 cm) and requirement that GZUR missile shall fit there we can assume that 533mm GZUR for subs could be an option

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