The Situation in the Ukraine. #21

sepheronx wrote:Poroshenko: UN SC permanent membership transfer from the USSR to Russia 'questionable'

Dunno why Tass has a hard on for whatever poro says, but the guy is an idiot.  But if at any given time Russia should lose its position at the UN security counsel, Russia should just drop UN entirely and no longer recognize it as an international body.  

Poroshenko is legitimate leader of Russia's brother nation and western partner Ukraine. TASS has to quote everything Poroshenko says, even words like wanting to kill Russians.

Back to MH-17. Due to a computer glitch I missed this a couple of weeks ago. John Helmer is a pretty good journalist and this piece is a classic, building on his previous work. In case you don't want to read it all, it basically says don't think that all levels in bureaucracies in multi countries will function as you think they will. In that:

- if someone in Kiev decided to have an AAM fired at MH-17 they did not know that they had timed it on a day and at a time two hours before a pre-arranged and fully planned and documented Obama/Putin phone call

- Putin, having been informed just in time before the call, was able to brief Obama on what happened (air to air not ground to air) from ATC/radar intercepts, possibly before Obama's US sources could update him

- the US expected Russia to release full details but was stuck with either damming Ukraine or defending the Poro proposed Buk story out of Kiev

- the timing of these events is in the public domain

- in September, probably not realising its significance or that they wouldn't find more, the Dutch state prosecutor said that they had recovered 25 pieces of shrapnel, in effect far too few for it to be a Buk

- someone in the Australian Government forgot to tell the coroners in the State of Victoria that anything to do with the inquests of the Australian victims was to be treated as a State Secret, that only happened last week

- so last November/December they released reports confirming very little shrapnel were in the bodies the examined and that death in the main was decompression related.

Quite why Russia kept quiet at the time we will probably never know but the report, now due in just under three weeks, and the reactions to it are going to be very interesting. These are the first paragraphs

Presidents Vladimir Putin and Barack Obama have on file three pieces of evidence showing both of them knew what had caused the crash of Malaysian Airlines MH17, and of the deaths of all 298 souls on board. They knew it little more than two hours after the crash had occurred in eastern Ukraine. They also knew each other knew it, because they discussed what had happened in a telephone call which took place before 19:45 Moscow time, 11:45 Washington time, on Thursday, July 17. MH17 was downed that day at 16:20 Ukraine time, 17:20 Moscow time, 09:20 Washington time.

The first piece of evidence is the agenda paper for the telephone call. This had been negotiated and formalized by the Russian Foreign Ministry, the Russian Embassy in Washington, the State Department and the White House before July 17. The second piece of evidence is the tape of the Putin-Obama conversation, as recorded by the Kremlin. The third piece of evidence is the tape of the Obama-Putin conversation, as recorded by the White House.

This evidence establishes that Putin believed, and Obama believed Putin would announce, not that a ground-to-air missile had brought MH17 down, but that other weapons had done so. The story that a Russian-made Buk missile had caused the disaster began after Obama had spoken to Ukrainian President Petro Poroshenko at about 19:00 Kiev time, 20:00 Moscow time, 12 noon Washington time.

Take away that story, because Obama knew it to be false when he had spoken earlier to Putin, and what do you have? A war crime by two governments. How to prove innocence and guilt? The tapes at the Kremlin and the White House.

http://johnhelmer.net/?p=14153#more-14153

sepheronx wrote:Poroshenko: UN SC permanent membership transfer from the USSR to Russia 'questionable'

Dunno why Tass has a hard on for whatever poro says, but the guy is an idiot.  But if at any given time Russia should lose its position at the UN security counsel, Russia should just drop UN entirely and no longer recognize it as an international body.  

Open source comedy entertainment for your average Russian. Why pay for Comedy Central when you have Porkins for free?

"Экипировка «Воевода». Экипировка должна в ближайшее время встать на вооружение ВСН"

New outfit/uniform Voivode (i suppose thats how would look real translation into english), soon coming to service in ВСН.





Source: https://twitter.com/EgoRZemtsoV/status/648976847141752833

"Summary of Requirements

The Organization for Security and Co-operation in Europe (OSCE) is seeking offers for an unmanned aerial vehicle turnkey project for its Special Monitoring Mission to Ukraine. The scope of monitoring services by UAVs will include but not be limited to area patrolling along borders , point surveillance at specific border crossing points, protection of OSCE personnel, and other surveillance tasks as assigned within the scope of the mission’s mandate (e.g. gathering information on the security situation, detecting the presence of vehicles and military type equipment, monitoring the regime of cessation of the use of weapons, monitoring the prohibition on the installation or laying of mines, etc.)."

Source: http://www.osce.org/procurement/181536

Meanwhile they started using 4 S-100 Schiebel Camcopter during last months of 2014:

"The Organization for Security and Cooperation in Europe (OSCE) has begun using unmanned surveillance drones to monitor the conflict in eastern Ukraine, which has claimed nearly 4,000 lives, including some 1,000 Ukrainian servicemen. The observation drones and operations crew are being provided by the Austrian company Schiebel. The firm originally specialized in land mine detection and developed the Camcopter S-100 being used in eastern Ukraine as an aerial land mine detection tool.



The Camcopter S-100 is a 3.5 meter long unarmed mini-helicopter equipped with a camera and radar equipment. The standard model can stay in the air for up to six hours and is able to operate in snow-covered areas at temperatures as low as -40 Celcius, according to Schiebel public relations representative Andrea Blama."

Some reports say they actually lost 2 of them to hostile fire so this procurement is taking place.

Source: https://twitter.com/JosephHDempsey/status/647053706232508416

"The OSCE confirms that on 3 February the Ukrainian Special Monitoring Mission lost contact with the vehicle 16km (10 miles) north of Mariupol – 96km south of the Russian backed rebel-held Donetsk region – which it is still in the process of locating. In addition, on 2 February another Camcopter returned from a mission with a hole in the rotorblade, which the OSCE believes to be the result of small arms fire. It is currently in the process of being fixed, the organisation says."

Source: https://www.flightglobal.com/news/articles/camcopter-uav-lost-over-ukraine-408786/

Also very amusing information about JAMMING of their guidance signals over DNR:

"The SMM monitored the implementation of the “Package of measures for the implementation of the Minsk agreements”. Its monitoring was restricted by third parties and security considerations*; persistent jamming of SMM UAVs over “DPR”-controlled areas was during the reporting period a major hindrance to monitoring in those areas.  The SMM continued to observe ceasefire violations at and around the Donetsk airport. The situation was calm in and around Shyrokyne. The Luhansk region remained largely calm although the SMM noted indications of recent fighting.  "

Source: http://www.osce.org/ukraine-smm/171821

I guess... someone will find this interesting lol

http://lenta.ru/news/2015/09/30/poroshokgoaway/

Poroshenko at the Columbia State University:

«Не имеет значения, готова ли европейская нация принять Украину или нет. Я настаиваю, Европейский союз не может выжить без Украины. Демократическая Украина должна быть в ЕС», — сказал Порошенко, выразив уверенность в том, что рано или поздно это случится.

"It doesn't matter whether or not the European nation is ready to accept Ukraine. I insist, the European Union cannot survive without Ukraine. Democractic Ukraine must be included in the EU", - said Poroshenko, expressing confidence that, sooner or later it will happen.

This clown is finally losing his last drop of sanity. Good.

PapaDragon wrote:

Cowboy's daughter wrote:.......................................
I gave you a plus vote on that, because I think that's true.

I listened to V. Putin's U N speech, but couldn't listen to all of Pres. Obama's. He is so boring and such a phony.

It's hard to figure out, (for me) the "game" behind the words...

I still think, because of the interview on 60 minutes, that there is a FACTION, in the U.S. that wants to be done with Ukraine, but Pres. Obama has this arrogance and insecurity, and imho, he wants to "leave a good legacy", also he doesn't want to "appear weak", for what ever political reasons...
Or maybe he just took V. Putin out-smarting his Administration re Crimea, personally.

I don't know what the Obama Administration thinks to accomplish with Ukraine, except use it as a means to sanction Russia and wage war that way.

I listened to BO's speech unfortunately.... all those pauses for applause that never came...I almost felt sorry for him.

[b]From FDR and Ike to this guy. USA can and must do better.[/b]

I feel more sorry than ever that Schwarzenegger could not run for the president. That man is my farther figure.
 

"I'll be back."

God you said it re from FDR and IKE to this guy. God help us.

Neutrality wrote:http://lenta.ru/news/2015/09/30/poroshokgoaway/

Poroshenko at the Columbia State University:

«Не имеет значения, готова ли европейская нация принять Украину или нет. Я настаиваю, Европейский союз не может выжить без Украины. Демократическая Украина должна быть в ЕС», — сказал Порошенко, выразив уверенность в том, что рано или поздно это случится.

"It doesn't matter whether or not the European nation is ready to accept Ukraine. I insist, the European Union cannot survive without Ukraine. Democractic Ukraine must be included in the EU", - said Poroshenko, expressing confidence that, sooner or later it will happen.

This clown is finally losing his last drop of sanity. Good.

The stuff Poroshenko says is ridiculous.

If he believes it himself, or if he doesn't, either way, Ukraine is in trouble...

Cowboy's daughter wrote:

Neutrality wrote:http://lenta.ru/news/2015/09/30/poroshokgoaway/

Poroshenko at the Columbia State University:

«Не имеет значения, готова ли европейская нация принять Украину или нет. Я настаиваю, Европейский союз не может выжить без Украины. Демократическая Украина должна быть в ЕС», — сказал Порошенко, выразив уверенность в том, что рано или поздно это случится.

"It doesn't matter whether or not the European nation is ready to accept Ukraine. I insist, the European Union cannot survive without Ukraine. Democractic Ukraine must be included in the EU", - said Poroshenko, expressing confidence that, sooner or later it will happen.

This clown is finally losing his last drop of sanity. Good.

The stuff Poroshenko says is ridiculous.

If he believes it himself, or if he doesn't, either way, Ukraine is in trouble...

Why does the EU have to give handouts to Ukraine? More to the point, what does Ukraine give back to the EU to justify the handouts?

Erk wrote:

Cowboy's daughter wrote:

Neutrality wrote:http://lenta.ru/news/2015/09/30/poroshokgoaway/

Poroshenko at the Columbia State University:

«Не имеет значения, готова ли европейская нация принять Украину или нет. Я настаиваю, Европейский союз не может выжить без Украины. Демократическая Украина должна быть в ЕС», — сказал Порошенко, выразив уверенность в том, что рано или поздно это случится.

"It doesn't matter whether or not the European nation is ready to accept Ukraine. I insist, the European Union cannot survive without Ukraine. Democractic Ukraine must be included in the EU", - said Poroshenko, expressing confidence that, sooner or later it will happen.

This clown is finally losing his last drop of sanity. Good.

The stuff Poroshenko says is ridiculous.

If he believes it himself, or if he doesn't, either way, Ukraine is in trouble...

Why does the EU have to give handouts to Ukraine? More to the point, what does Ukraine give back to the EU to justify the handouts?

I thought this article from 2013 interesting.

Why Does Ukraine Matter to the EU?

http://carnegieeurope.eu/publications/?fa=51522#

1. The EU’s Interests in Ukraine—Driven by Member States


2. Politics and Security
Kyiv is an important actor in the “5+2” talks on the conflict between neighboring Moldova and the country’s breakaway region of Transnistria as well. For a long time, Ukraine aligned with the EU and proved to be an important partner for Brussels on this issue. However, Ukraine under Yanukovych is more vulnerable to external (that is, Russian) pressure and may eventually change its approach to Transnistria.

3. Economics and Trade
In 2011, Ukraine was the union’s 24th most important source of imports (accounting for 0.9 percent of imports from non-EU countries) and ranked nineteen on the list of countries receiving the most EU exports (accounting for 1.4 percent of EU exports). This compares with Russia, which is the EU’s second-largest import partner and fourth-largest export partner, and Turkey, which is seventh and fifth, respectively.

The potential for greater economic and trade links between the EU and Ukraine is significant. Ukraine offers a market of 45 million consumers, and 70 percent of its arable land is made up of some of the most fertile soil in Europe. But for this potential to be realized, and for EU businesses to be willing to invest in or trade with Ukraine, the country has to dramatically improve its poor business climate. It currently ranks 137 out of 185 countries in terms of the ease of doing business according to the World Bank’s Doing Business 2013 report and 73 out of 144 countries on the World Economic Forum’s Global Competitiveness Report 2012–2013.



4. Energy

Despite Russia’s attempts to redirect its gas supply to the EU through the Belarusian gas transit system and Nord Stream pipeline, Ukraine remains the most important transit country for Russian gas going to the EU. Today, twelve EU member states receive gas through the Ukrainian transit system,1 which is in relatively bad shape and needs to be significantly modernized.

Yet, the Ukrainian authorities have not asked the EU for the funds that were pledged by Brussels in 2009 to help modernize the system. The Ukrainian government is also reportedly holding negotiations with Moscow on the creation of a bilateral consortium to manage the Ukrainian gas transit system. While this may provide for the safe transit of gas to the EU in the short run, it does not guarantee modernization and hence security of transit for the EU in the medium term.

Ukraine also offers energy resources that the EU needs. It is one of the biggest producers of electricity in Europe. Its electricity systems are partially integrated with the European Network of Transmission System Operators for Electricity, and the country supplies electricity to four EU member states (Hungary, Slovakia, Poland, and Romania). In addition, Ukraine has significant natural gas and shale gas resources that it is starting to develop.

I think we're going in to the frozen conflict stage at this time. Can't say if it will last and there will always be low grade fighting from time to time but for whatever reason the orcs have been told to stand down for the moment. It remains to be seen how long this will last but with the current migrant crisis in EU (did Mutti have forewarning of this and did this crisis generate her summons of Poroshenko to Berlin?) combined with Mr. Putin's masterstroke of diplomacy at UN concerning Syria and the clear message that the current continuous regime changes will stop it looks to me like EU/US has more on their plate than they can handle so Orcland will be on the back burner for a while.

Last year when Mr. Putin first said Novorossiya will not fall his statement apparently fell on deaf ears. In the year since that statement he has proven he meant what he said and perhaps someone in Berlin and DC has finally listened and possibly now understand that when VVP says something he means what he says, pure and simple. Novorossiya has understood that there will be no Russian Cavalry coming to their rescue but they have been given all the wherewithal to defend themselves and build a country, which they have done.

Ukraine, on the other hand, is steadily deteriorating and has suffered massive population loss (as has Novorossiya but with a long term peace over a million citizens will return home, one way or the other) with no end in sight. The economy is slowly, not rapidly but slowly, falling. Many of those who have left Ukraine are the 'best and brightest', going to Russia or EU as in essence economic immigrants as there is little future for them in Ukraine. I do not see Ukraine falling apart, I don't think EU/US will allow that and the general populace is too passive and unarmed for the country to fall apart do to a spreading of the current civil war. If there is regime change it will simply be maidan 2 or maidan 8, who knows, but the only possible way for regime change is for one or more of the armed gangs to try to take power. This event will be just like maidan, a change in the ruling elite, nothing more, with business as usual after the fires are put out.

EU/US will, and are in process of, stop the flow of funds to Ukraine. They know well how much of that money is stolen and will not continue to pour money down a rat hole. Poroshenko and the lot of them can continue to make their pontifications to the world press but I think you all will see in a not to long time frame the disappearance of them from the west news. When that happens, and it already has to a great extent, well, out of sight out of mind.

This winter will be very difficult for Ukraine. I do not see mass starvation or bread riots but I think we will see more and more immigration to better economic climes. In spring when the snow melts we will all see the result.

It matters not if Novorossiya is internationally recognized, the de facto recognition is a fact and that recognition means the main trade partners of Novorossiya will continue to develop the trade and industry of the area. This will lead to a more prosperous populace which in and of itself leads to peace and tranquility in Novorossiya, said peace and tranquility never being a bad thing.

Erk wrote:

Cowboy's daughter wrote:

Neutrality wrote:http://lenta.ru/news/2015/09/30/poroshokgoaway/

Poroshenko at the Columbia State University:

«Не имеет значения, готова ли европейская нация принять Украину или нет. Я настаиваю, Европейский союз не может выжить без Украины. Демократическая Украина должна быть в ЕС», — сказал Порошенко, выразив уверенность в том, что рано или поздно это случится.

"It doesn't matter whether or not the European nation is ready to accept Ukraine. I insist, the European Union cannot survive without Ukraine. Democractic Ukraine must be included in the EU", - said Poroshenko, expressing confidence that, sooner or later it will happen.

This clown is finally losing his last drop of sanity. Good.

The stuff Poroshenko says is ridiculous.

If he believes it himself, or if he doesn't, either way, Ukraine is in trouble...

Why does the EU have to give handouts to Ukraine? More to the point, what does Ukraine give back to the EU to justify the handouts?

Less Ukrainian refugees/migrants in Europe and wage slav(e)s in Ukraine for Europe.

sepheronx wrote:Poroshenko: UN SC permanent membership transfer from the USSR to Russia 'questionable'

Dunno why Tass has a hard on for whatever poro says, but the guy is an idiot.  But if at any given time Russia should lose its position at the UN security counsel, Russia should just drop UN entirely and no longer recognize it as an international body.  

So by Fatchops reasoning, its time Ukrainian politicians started making the trip to Moscow.
Because the dissolution of the Soviet Union is "questionable".

By that dick sucker's reasoning, an independent "Ikcheria" (Chechnya) or Uzbekistan had the "right" to have nukes. The guy is an absolute toilet.

"High ticket prices of MAU airlines, owned by Igor Kolomoisky, forced the Ukrainian presidential delegation to travel to the session of the UN General Assembly via Moscow by Aeroflot, an anonymous source told "Politnavigator".



Currently, according to aviago.com.ua the cost of flight from Kiev to New York by Aeroflot with a connection in Moscow is 10,441 UAH, the cost of a direct MAU flight– 31,875 UAH.

According to the decision of the Security Council, the government of Ukraine adopted a decision to ban flights of Russian airlines, particularly Aeroflot and Transaero to Ukraine.

"Russian planes with Russian flags have no business being at the Ukrainian airports," - said Prime Minister Arseniy Yatsenyuk at the meeting of the cabinet on Friday, September 25."

Source: http://fortruss.blogspot.ca/2015/09/poroshenko-chooses-russian-over.html

Knock me down with a feather! I assume this is what generated Auslander's 'frozen conflict' comments above. I have put them in the time order they were released in.

Participants of the Contact Group on Ukraine signed on Tuesday an agreement on the withdrawal of tanks and weaponry with a caliber of under 100-mm from a separation line between Kiev-led forces and Donbass militia in eastern Ukraine.

MINSK (Sputnik) — A source close to the talks told RIA Novosti that the new arms pullout deal will be added to the package of Minsk peace accords, agreed on February 12 between Russian, Ukrainian, French and German leaders. "An agreement on the pullout of weaponry with caliber under 100-mm and tanks from the contact line in Donbass has been initialed."

The report was later confirmed by Donetsk envoy to Contact Group talks in Minsk Denis Pushilin.

Dariia Olifer, a spokeswoman for the Ukrainian government representative at the peace talks and ex-president Leonid Kuchma, posted to her Facebook page that the document was signed by Kuchma, OSCE Special Representative in Ukraine Martin Sajdik and Russian envoy to the talks Azamat Kulmukhametov. Olifer added that the agreement had not yet been signed by leaders of the self-proclaimed Donetsk and Lugansk people’s republics, who would sign them "through OSCE channels" by Thursday.

Read more: http://sputniknews.com/europe/20150929/1027746702/Donbass-Weapons-Pullout-Agreement.html#ixzz3nD60SyrX


MOSCOW (Sputnik) — Participants of the Contact Group on Ukraine initialed on Tuesday an agreement on the withdrawal of weaponry with caliber under 100-mm and tanks from a separation line between Kiev-led forces and Donbass militia in eastern Ukraine. "This is a much-anticipated news for people who live along the contact line," the Lugansk Information Center quoted Plotnitsky as saying. "I hope that this document, which we will sign tomorrow, will open the way for further implementation of the Minsk agreements."

Read more: http://sputniknews.com/europe/20150929/1027749545/plotnitsky-ready-to-sign--donbass-withdrawal-agreement-with-Kiev.html#ixzz3nD6nw7pN

VIENNA, September 30. /TASS/. OSCE hails the agreement between Kiev and self-proclaimed republics of Donbass on withdrawal of weapons as a path to peace, OSCE’s Chairperson-in-Office and Serbia’s Foreign Minister Ivica Dacic said commenting on the agreement on withdrawal from the front line of weapons of calibre under 100mm, which the parties signed on Tuesday. He said the agreements proved the parties are ready to continue the peaceful settlement process, which is the only way to achieve the goal of gaining peace. It is time to improve trust and to speed up implementation of the measures on political, economic and humanitarian settlement of the situation.

OSCE’s Special Monitoring Mission will follow up implementation of the agreement, he said, thus it would be most important the observers have access to all regions and their safety is provided accordingly.

Earlier on Tuesday, the Trilateral Contact Group initialled a document envisaging withdrawal of weapons under 100mm calibre to a distance of 15 kilometres for the line of engagement. The first stage would begin in two days, OSCE’s (Organization for Security and Cooperation in Europe) Special Representative in Ukraine Martin Sajdik said, adding that first tanks would be pulled back, then artillery and then mortars. The first stage of 15 days will be followed by a 24-day second stage.



The agreement on the withdrawal of arms is an important step in resolving the conflict in Ukraine’s Donbass Region, German Foreign Minister Frank-Walter Steinmeier said while attending the UN General Assembly in New York.

BERLIN (Sputnik) — Participants of the Contact Group on Ukraine signed Tuesday an agreement on the withdrawal of tanks and weaponry with a caliber of under 100-mm from a separation line between Kiev-led forces and Donbass militia in eastern Ukraine. "This is good news from Minsk. Withdrawal of weapons, which was finally agreed today, is an important step for the preservation of a ceasefire in the east of Ukraine, I highly welcome it," Steinmeier said, as cited by the foreign ministry’s website.

The new arms pullout deal is expected to be added to the package of Minsk peace accords, agreed on February 12 between the leaders of the Normandy Four, which includes Russia, Ukraine, France and Germany.

“For months, including at the last meeting of the Normandy Format foreign ministers, we constantly worked on the development of this matter,” Steinmeier said adding that other points of the Minsk deal require implementation as well. The leaders of the so-called Normandy Format are expected to hold a summit in Paris on Friday. According to Steinmeier, the upcoming summit is a rare opportunity to substantially move forward in the resolution of the Ukrainian conflict.

Read more: http://sputniknews.com/europe/20150930/1027757504/Arms-Withdrawal-in-Ukraine.html#ixzz3nD7oLJBO


Then, after all the 'elections in the East will kill Minsk' stuff we have this, no indication of which side of the ceasefire line (my highlight) he is talking about.

Ukraine wants to clarify the process for local elections in Donetsk and Lugansk regions in the country’s east during the upcoming Normandy Quartet talks, Ukraine Deputy Head of the Presidential Administration Konstantin Eliseev told Sputnik.

UNITED NATIONS (Sputnik) — On October 25, Ukraine is scheduled to hold parliamentary elections. The Donetsk and Lugansk breakaway republics have announced plans to hold local elections on October 18 and November 1 respectively.

"We would like to achieve some tangible results, first of all, with regard to the modality of the local elections in certain areas in Donetsk and Lugansk," Eliseev said on Tuesday.

On Friday, the so-called Normandy Quartet of Ukraine, France, Germany, and Russia will meet in Paris to continue talks and discuss additional measures to implement Minsk peace agreements reached in February.

Kiev has strongly objected to the plans for separate elections in the eastern republics.

Under the February Minsk protocol, Ukraine must undergo constitutional reforms, including decentralization, and allow for local elections in the Donetsk and Lugansk before the end of 2015.

Read more: http://sputniknews.com/europe/20150930/1027756730/Ukraine-Wants-Electionsin-East-Clarified.html#ixzz3nD79PQk4

Im looking forward to seeing how the russian governments dexision to use force in syria is going to go down in ukraine. I can see the nostrels flaring and the foam started to dribble out of their collective mouths.

According to sources this morning and also news reports, President Assad of Syria has formally asked Russia for military assistance in the Syrian struggle against the Islamist attackers of sovereign Syrian territory. I do not know when this request for assistance was made. Upper House of Russia Government has given President Putin permission to render military assistance to President Assad.

There are reports beginning to surface that Russia has told US/NATO to cease flying in Syria airspace. It was pointed out to US/NATO that only a UNSC resolution or a direct request from President Assad of Syria for assistance from US/NATO could authorize such actions as US/NATO have been prosecuting, neither of which event has occurred.

Reports are beginning to surface that US/NATO has refused the request to cease combat operations in Syrian airspace.

Are we now going to see the americans push back at russian involvement in syria by increasing the tension in ukraine?

If i were america/uk i would be delighted at them taking over in syria, though they must be gutted that they cant propapandise it as 'russian aggression' due to their own gagging for war in syria for the last four years.

Rodinazombie wrote:Are we now going to see the americans push back at russian involvement in syria by increasing the tension in ukraine?

If i were america/uk i would be delighted at them taking over in syria, though they must be gutted that they cant propapandise it as 'russian aggression' due to their own gagging for war in syria for the last four years.

I think The West has a bit more on their plate than they can chew. As I said earlier, the illegal migrant crisis alone is dragging EU down quite strongly, the monies this crisis will eat is astounding and to be blunt EU does not have the money needed for well over a million migrants who are guaranteed by EU law succor at the host country's expense. As you may have noticed many EU countries are suddenly promulgating 'temporary laws' to at least stem the tide of illegal migrants, that not being possible without using armed force and EU does not have the will to do so.

It is possible that Orcland will try to do something stupud but I think NAF can very well take care of themselves. I do expect some of the 'out of control' orc 'volunteer' battalions to start using heavy arty again but July and August was pretty hard on them when they did so, hence their willingness to accept a stand down. In other words they got slaughtered by NAF counter battery fire.

The next week or ten days will be interesting and for the world very dangerous. Neither side, RF or US/NATO, will blink unless they absolutely have to and I don't think VVP will blink.

auslander wrote:

Rodinazombie wrote:Are we now going to see the americans push back at russian involvement in syria by increasing the tension in ukraine?

If i were america/uk i would be delighted at them taking over in syria, though they must be gutted that they cant propapandise it as 'russian aggression' due to their own gagging for war in syria for the last four years.

I think The West has a bit more on their plate than they can chew. As I said earlier, the illegal migrant crisis alone is dragging EU down quite strongly, the monies this crisis will eat is astounding and to be blunt EU does not have the money needed for well over a million migrants who are guaranteed by EU law succor at the host country's expense. As you may have noticed many EU countries are suddenly promulgating 'temporary laws' to at least stem the tide of illegal migrants, that not being possible without using armed force and EU does not have the will to do so.

It is possible that Orcland will try to do something stupud but I think NAF can very well take care of themselves. I do expect some of the 'out of control' orc 'volunteer' battalions to start using heavy arty again but July and August was pretty hard on them when they did so, hence their willingness to accept a stand down. In other words they got slaughtered by NAF counter battery fire.

The next week or ten days will be interesting and for the world very dangerous. Neither side, RF or US/NATO, will blink unless they absolutely have to and I don't think VVP will blink.  

I agree. Also, as it is primarily the RuAF that is in action in Syria and Putin has ruled out the use of ground troops (that's the SAA and Iran's problem) , the RA will be champing at the bit to get some action somewhere too. Heaven help Ukraine if they do something stupid, all hell will be let loose.

auslander wrote:

Rodinazombie wrote:Are we now going to see the americans push back at russian involvement in syria by increasing the tension in ukraine?

If i were america/uk i would be delighted at them taking over in syria, though they must be gutted that they cant propapandise it as 'russian aggression' due to their own gagging for war in syria for the last four years.

I think The West has a bit more on their plate than they can chew. As I said earlier, the illegal migrant crisis alone is dragging EU down quite strongly, the monies this crisis will eat is astounding and to be blunt EU does not have the money needed for well over a million migrants who are guaranteed by EU law succor at the host country's expense. As you may have noticed many EU countries are suddenly promulgating 'temporary laws' to at least stem the tide of illegal migrants, that not being possible without using armed force and EU does not have the will to do so.

It is possible that Orcland will try to do something stupud but I think NAF can very well take care of themselves. I do expect some of the 'out of control' orc 'volunteer' battalions to start using heavy arty again but July and August was pretty hard on them when they did so, hence their willingness to accept a stand down. In other words they got slaughtered by NAF counter battery fire.

The next week or ten days will be interesting and for the world very dangerous. Neither side, RF or US/NATO, will blink unless they absolutely have to and I don't think VVP will blink.  

I think the USA will blink. The American people do not want war with Russia.

I went to the NYTs this morning, imho, the newspaper that's Pres. Obama's mouthpiece:

John Kerry Rushes In Where Obama Will Not Tread

By PETER BAKERSEPT. 29, 2015

http://www.nytimes.com/2015/09/30/world/middleeast/john-kerry-rushes-in-where-obama-will-not-tread.html?hp&action=click&pgtype=Homepage&module=first-column-region&region=top-news&WT.nav=top-news&_r=0

Also like you say, the US's plate is full

U.S. Strikes Taliban-Held Land Near Kunduz Airport as Afghan Crisis Deepens

http://www.nytimes.com/2015/10/01/world/asia/kunduz-afghanistan-taliban-fight.html?hp&action=click&pgtype=Homepage&module=first-column-region&region=top-news&WT.nav=top-news

There's a map on the article where the attacks are.

& here's a map of the region, as it's on the border of Turkmenistan...

https://www.google.com/maps/place/Turkmenistan/@51.0656633,41.8236926,3z/data=!4m2!3m1!1s0x3f65cb5574bc6ccb:0x7edd826b4169a491

Dunno if anyone has posted here, but...

http://sputniknews.com/politics/20150926/1027588389/poroshenko-sanctions-russia-donbass-elections.html

Poroshenko Vows to Expand Sanctions If Russia Backs Donbass Elections

Kiev should expand or extend sanctions against Russia should Moscow support the elections in the self-proclaimed Donetsk and Lugansk people’s republics, Ukrainian President Petro Poroshenko said on Saturday.

You don't need to read the rest

Reports are the first RAF strikes have been made.

I think we are seeing a tectonic shift in the world as we know it. For the first time in many decades US has been told to stop something they are doing by a country that has the might to back up their words and apparently is judged willing to use that might. Russia has made no threats whatsoever that I know of as to what she may or may not do if US/NATO does not listen to the friendly advice but being an avid pupil of Mr. Putin I would say Mr. Putin never bluffs and never does anything without being in a position of strength.

I don't know if this shift is good, bad or indifferent but something has to be done about the continuous wars of the last 65 years, most started or abetted by US/NATO/EU one way or another although SSSR had their full share of misadventures, make no mistake of that.

My Lady, I read the NY Times articles and I agree completely with you, NYT is Obama's mouthpiece completely. Of interest this morning, and my lass and I discussed it during our long trip to City this morning, is I think Mr. Putin was given his answer concerning Mr. Assad, this answer from the Saudis in that Mr. Assad must go although I have precisely zero doubts that the answer emanated from Foggy Bottom and simply passed through Saudi mouths.

higurashihougi wrote:Dunno if anyone has posted here, but...

http://sputniknews.com/politics/20150926/1027588389/poroshenko-sanctions-russia-donbass-elections.html

Poroshenko Vows to Expand Sanctions If Russia Backs Donbass Elections

Kiev should expand or extend sanctions against Russia should Moscow support the elections in the self-proclaimed Donetsk and Lugansk people’s republics, Ukrainian President Petro Poroshenko said on Saturday.

You don't need to read the rest

Yup and that was Saturday. Today, after a few days with the 'boss' in the US, we have this I posted earlier, so maybe not such a hard line after all.

Ukraine wants to clarify the process for local elections in Donetsk and Lugansk regions in the country’s east during the upcoming Normandy Quartet talks, Ukraine Deputy Head of the Presidential Administration Konstantin Eliseev told Sputnik.

UNITED NATIONS (Sputnik) — On October 25, Ukraine is scheduled to hold parliamentary elections. The Donetsk and Lugansk breakaway republics have announced plans to hold local elections on October 18 and November 1 respectively.

"We would like to achieve some tangible results, first of all, with regard to the modality of the local elections in certain areas in Donetsk and Lugansk," Eliseev said on Tuesday.

Read more: http://sputniknews.com/europe/20150930/1027756730/Ukraine-Wants-Electionsin-East-Clarified.html#ixzz3nEnaSpzB