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    The Situation in the Ukraine. #21

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    Post  Cowboy's daughter Thu Sep 10, 2015 10:58 pm

    Kiev Right Wing Violence: Time for Poroshenko to Look in the Mirror?


    http://www.huffingtonpost.com/nikolas-kozloff/kiev-right-wing-violence_b_8118714.html?utm_hp_ref=world&ir=WorldPost

    Amidst the emergence of politically-right-wing forces in Kiev, Ukrainian President Petro Poroshenko claims to be shocked and outraged by recent violence. Speaking in reference to an explosion which killed three members of the national guard outside parliament and left another officer in a coma, Poroshenko called the attack "an anti-Ukrainian action" and demanded that "all organizers, all representatives of political forces... must carry full responsibility." More than a whopping 140 were also wounded in the attack, which was apparently caused by a grenade. All three guardsmen were young, in their twenties.

    The incident occurred in the midst of a demonstration against a plan to provide more autonomy to separatist enclaves in the Ukrainian east where Russian-backed rebels hold sway. Authorities have blamed the explosion on a fighter in the so-called Sich volunteer battalion, which is linked in turn to far right-wing Svoboda or Freedom Party [in Ukraine, "Sich" refers to historic Cossack homelands. Though Cossack is a loaded term and carries unpleasant historic meaning for some, nationalists recently revived the word by referring to a protest area in Kiev which launched the 2013-14 EuroMaidan revolution as a "Cossack Sich." Svoboda meanwhile loves "Cossack rock" music]. Rather questionably, the government itself has ties to the Sich battalion which falls under the official control of the Ministry of the Interior.

    Svoboda's Role

    Svoboda was highly represented at the demonstration outside of parliament, and most protesters participating in subsequent violence and clashes with the police were Svoboda members. Later, the Minister of the Interior claimed that that party was "directly" responsible for clashes and the government has charged senior Svoboda members with rioting. Prime Minister Arseniy Yatsenyuk has declared that right wing-nationalists were "worse" than Russian-backed separatists in the east, because they were "trying to open another front" in Ukraine "under the guise of patriotism."

    Svoboda on the other hand denies any responsibility and claims the authorities are out on a witch hunt to deface the party. Whatever the case, it's a little odd that the authorities have only now woken up to the ominous threat of right wing groups. Indeed, the attack in front of the parliament building follows close on the heels of another incident in south-west Ukraine, in which members of Right Sektor battalion got into a shootout with local police. Perhaps, high-ups at the Ministry of Interior and elsewhere are finally paying the price for coddling the nationalist right and its backward political and social agenda.

    Waking Up to Far Right

    It's only now, when extremists pose a threat to the government itself, that the international media has woken up to the rise of the political right. For years now, however, the nationalist right has posed a risk to independent leftists on the ground. Denis Pilash, one such activist who I interviewed in Kiev, is no stranger to Svoboda. Even before the EuroMaidan revolution which toppled Viktor Yanukovych from power, Pilash observed Svoboda trying to stir up "anti-migrant hysteria" by holding hostile rallies. Eventually, however, Svoboda and the right may have realized that anti-immigrant messaging wasn't resonating so well, so they turned to opposing anarchists, feminists, and the LGBT community.

    As if such developments weren't concerning enough, Svoboda also has a peculiar habit of resuscitating dubious World War II icons. Svoboda leaders, in fact, admire "proto-Nazis" such as Ernst Jünger, and are "understanding" of Goebbels. They moreover talk about "purity of blood" and refer to Ukraine as "one race, one nation, one fatherland." Svoboda meanwhile idolizes the Ukrainian Insurgent Army or UPA, an outfit which fought against the Soviets in World War II but also collaborated with the Nazis at one point. During unrest at Maidan square, Svoboda brandished the traditional UPA flag. In addition, Svoboda has defended extremists' right to brandish this flag at local soccer matches.

    Problematic Police

    more @ link!!
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    Post  flamming_python Thu Sep 10, 2015 11:03 pm

    PapaDragon wrote:
    'Adolfik' Character Teaches Ukrainian Kids How to 'Properly' Hate Russia

    http://sputniknews.com/europe/20150910/1026832521.html#ixzz3lLXkEHDy

    School textbooks in Ukraine now teach children about little Alarmik and Adolfik, the two young supporters of Stepan Bandera who tell youngsters how to fight for the Ukrainian independence, TV Channel Zvezda reported..........

    lol!

    You just can't make this up can you.
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    Post  Cowboy's daughter Thu Sep 10, 2015 11:19 pm

    The Soviet Liberation of Kiev From the Nazis

    http://madefrom.com/history/world-war-two/soviet-liberation-kiev/

    video nsfw, graphic


    "The city of Kiev was captured by Nazi Germany in September 1941 and stayed under German control until it was liberated by the Red Army on 6 November 1943. The city suffered huge damage during its time under Nazi occupation and most of the historic buildings and monuments were destroyed either in the battles for control of the city or as part of the Nazi’s scorched earth strategy as they retreated.

    This video shows Soviet troops re-entering the city and removing all trace of its previous occupiers. Kiev citizens hug and kiss their liberators in a display of gratitude. The Soviet Union later awarded Kiev the status of ‘Hero City’ for its role in the war."
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    Post  Morpheus Eberhardt Thu Sep 10, 2015 11:42 pm

    Khepesh wrote:
    Just as there was never a country called "Ukraine", neither was a there a country called "Novorossiya", simply the name given to a geographic area of Russia.

    +1
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    Post  Cowboy's daughter Thu Sep 10, 2015 11:43 pm

    In Kharkov, a monument to Soviet soldiers was painted with swastikas.

    The Situation in the Ukraine. #21 - Page 20 COUKLTtWgAA6rDf

    The Situation in the Ukraine. #21 - Page 20 COUKLMwWIAAkpNb

    The Situation in the Ukraine. #21 - Page 20 COUKLPiWEAEVCiI
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    Post  flamming_python Fri Sep 11, 2015 12:02 am

    Cowboy's daughter wrote:In Kharkov, a monument to Soviet soldiers was painted with swastikas.

    The Situation in the Ukraine. #21 - Page 20 COUKLTtWgAA6rDf

    The Situation in the Ukraine. #21 - Page 20 COUKLMwWIAAkpNb

    The Situation in the Ukraine. #21 - Page 20 COUKLPiWEAEVCiI

    Kharkov's a-hole's gonna be pretty wide after this is all done and through.

    If it ever does get done and through that is. They might remain occupied by Nazi-land forever and for that they will have only themselves to blame.

    They don't seem to realize that if they are not even willing to take action against those that desecrate the memories of over a million of their ancestors that fought and died for the city, against the sons of those same Nazis that came to their ancestors cities with intent of murder and genocide, that if they can't even take a stand against them - that no-one will will want to come and fight and die for their freedom either.
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    Post  Cowboy's daughter Fri Sep 11, 2015 12:06 am

    http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=60e_1441454345

    The US Ambassador and the Ukrainian Fascists by Yasha Levine

    It’s not just the war, which is horrible enough and grinds on day after day. There’s also the horrific economic conditions faced by the country and the ongoing oligarchic looting — with, most recently, a “pro-Western” Ukrainian oligarch siphoning off $2 billion of IMF aim funds into his private bank accounts without anyone minding.

    There were the string of suspicious suicides of former government officials and a brazen daylight hit on a pro-Russian journalist. And then of course there’s the scary new legislation that has officially outlawed communist ideology and the display of Soviet symbols, “making something as trivial as selling a USSR souvenir, or singing the Soviet national hymn or the Internationale, punishable by up to five years in prison for an individual and up to 10 years in prison for members of an organization.” Yep, there’s so much to watch and be horrified by.

    But the latest thing that caught my eye was the online activity of Geoffry Pyatt, esteemed U.S. Ambassador to Ukraine. One of his tweets brought me back to a topic that’s been haunting me ever since I travelled to Ukraine last summer: the normalization of Holocaust denial, and
    America’s cynical support of fascist groups and ideologies in the former Soviet Union.

    Ambassador Pyatt leads a busy life on social media. He logs on daily to wage a relentless tweeting war against Russian propaganda. Recently Pyatt took to Twitter and did something I thought no modern American ambassador would ever be caught doing: he promoted Ukraine’s “OUN Battalion” — an ultra-nationalist paramilitary group that proudly takes its name from the Organization of Ukrainian Nationalists (OUN), an ultra-violent fascist group that was backed by Nazi Germany and carried out a brutal campaign of mass murder and mutilation against Poles and Jews in the early 1940s.

    How bad was the OUN? Well, its leaders wanted to create an ethnically pure Ukraine — free of Poles, Jews and Russians. And it took serious steps tomake it happen. OUN even had song with a refrain that went something like this: “We will butcher the Jews, strangle the Poles, and establish a Ukrainian state!” I’ll get to the ugly history of OUN in a bit.

    First, a bit about an article that Ambassador Pyatt liked so much that he couldn’t help but promote on Twitter.It appeared in one of the Koch-funded The Heritage Foundation’s newfangled magazines, The Daily Signal. Among attacks on Planned Parenthood, green energy subsidies and government jobs, the mag ran a dispatch by Nolan Peterson, a Daily Signal foreign correspondent and a “former USAF special ops pilot.” In it Peterson hangs out with the “OUN Battalion.” He describes how members of the battalion go about their combat duties on the frontline in eastern Ukraine and introduces his readers to “Ukraine’s Women Warriors,” pointing out how brave they are and how well they’re treated by their male comrades — even as they all risk their lives to free Ukraine from Russia’s totalitarian grip.....

    It was a grotesque racial eugenics theory — something that could’ve been churned out by a social darwinist or Goebbels’ propaganda ministry — but it fit quiet nicely if you wanted it to. It could explain everything from Russia’s communist past and current support for Vladimir Putin. It’s all about the Russian people’s inbred serf mentality, man!

    They’re incapable of being free!The way Andrei saw it, the current struggle against Russian influence more than just about economic integration with Europe, it was a fight to break away for a degraded, inferior culture and people — something that had been weighing down Ukraine since the Soviet days.

    I held my tongue at the time, but I was horrified by his casual eugenicism. The whole thing was very personal to me. I was born in Leningrad, a citizen of the Soviet Union. Half of my family came from modern day Belarus, half from Ukraine. My mom’s side came from a Jewish village — a
    shtetl — in central Ukraine. I thought to myself: Andrei’s heroes vowed to wipe out people like me — and almost succeeded.

    As a Soviet Jew, where did I fit into his naive eugenicist view of the world? As for Ambassador Pyatt and his tweets…America’s neocon establishment sees the rise of Ukrainian ultranationalism as a good thing, something that should be supported and nurtured, as it has succeeded in peeling Ukraine away from Russia’s sphere of influence. But at what cost? War, death, destruction, Ukrainian set against Ukrainian and a European country steeped in naive crypto-fascism?

    Yasha Levine http://yashalevine.com/ is an author and investigative journalist, currently with Pando Daily. He's reported from multiple continents, co-founded the Russian based The eXiled and the SHAME Project, and has written for numerous publications — Wired, The Nation, Slate,
    Penthouse, The New York Observer. Check out some of his older work at The eXiled and NSFWCORP... and buy his books.Currently working on stealth doc project about California's war wars and oligarch farmers. And writing a book: Surveillance Valley — how Silicon Valley turned the Internet into the greatest surveillance apparatus in the history of mankind.

    For complete article see https://theother14.wordpress.com/2015/09/05/the-us-ambassador-and-the-ukrainian-fascists-by-yasha-levine/

    Read more at http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=60e_1441454345#UETDW8bUR9hhMhRR.99
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    Post  kvs Fri Sep 11, 2015 12:15 am

    I say to these Banderatards, good riddance and may the door not hit you on the way out. You are nothing but rabid welfare bums
    who are bitter that Russia is not supporting your sloth. You think that the EU will wipe your bums for your. You are indeed retarded.
    The events in Ukraine over the last two years are actually a good thing for Russia. It now sees Ukrs for what they are and there
    can be no more talk of brotherly peoples. You are now fully on your own suckers. You failed getting your act together over the
    last 25 years in spite of $300 billion in Russian subsidies and the fact that Russia bought your products and it is now more clear
    than ever that you don't have the capacity to be productive. You are living on the rapidly decaying corpse of "Russified" Ukraine.
    Soon you will all be swarming hordes of refugees to the EU once the economic implosion is complete.
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    Post  Cowboy's daughter Fri Sep 11, 2015 12:27 am

    From RT

    Hasidic Jewish camp attacked in Ukraine ahead of pilgrimage

    http://www.rt.com/news/314879-jewish-camp-attack-ukraine/

    A Hasidic camp in a central Ukrainian city, which was preparing to welcome thousands of Orthodox Jews for an annual pilgrimage, was destroyed after an alleged “collective” decision by locals. Police stood idly by as about 30 men wrecked the camp.

    The group of “athletic-looking” young men equipped with hammers and other “carpenter tools” destroyed a fence surrounding the Hasidic Jews’ camp in Uman on Saturday, Ukrainian media reported. The attackers then knocked down lamp posts and damaged security cameras, threatening to return a few days later.

    READ MORE: Orthodox Jewish school teaches 3yo children ‘non-Jews are evil’

    The incident, described by the pilgrimage organizer as “a provocation against Ukraine,” happened at noon on Saturday, when the believers were “particularly vulnerable.” He placed the damage caused by the attack at $500,000.

    “On Shabbat, when they knew we wouldn’t be able to respond or activate the communication device, they simply knocked down the fence, pushed the light poles and security cameras, and caused damage estimated at half a million dollars,” Eliezer Kirshboim, chairman and director of the Jewish association in Uman, told the Israeli daily Yediot Acharonot.

    Meanwhile, the leader of the attackers, known as Voulya, told TSN.ua that the decision “to take down the fence was taken on a collegiate basis.” No one has been charged in the attack so far.

    This is not the first time the annual pilgrimage to the burial site of Rabbi Nachman of Breslov, which at times has attracted tens of thousands of Orthodox Jews, has caused frictions with the locals. In 2010, when some 30,000 Hasidic pilgrims came to Uman, local media reported that “aggressive behavior” by some Orthodox Jews had resulted in conflicts and brawls with residents, requiring riot police to intervene.

    The Times of Israel noted that many locals “resent the cordoning off by police” of a number of neighborhoods reserved for the pilgrims.

    However, things have apparently only got worse in the Ukrainian turmoil, with nationalist, and at times, openly neo-Nazi parties coming to power locally. According to Kirshboim, the current mayor of Uman was “appointed” by members of the far-right nationalist Svoboda party, which was recently implicated in deadly clashes in front of the Ukrainian parliament in Kiev.

    “There is crazy state of anarchy here,” Kirshboim told the Times, adding that right-wing “activists” have been harassing Jews to score political points among the local population.

    “Whoever harasses the Hasidim more has a better chance of winning the elections in October,” the Jewish leader claimed.

    In a wider context, this is only the latest case of anti-Semitic violence in Europe in the last two-three years. Jews have recently been leaving Ukraine by the thousand, according to Joel Rubinfeld, president of the Belgian league against Anti-Semitism.

    read more at link

    The Situation in the Ukraine. #21 - Page 20 COe8XCQWEAAFuqQ
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    Post  flamming_python Fri Sep 11, 2015 12:34 am

    kvs wrote:I say to these Banderatards, good riddance and may the door not hit you on the way out.   You are nothing but rabid welfare bums
    who are bitter that Russia is not supporting your sloth.   You think that the EU will wipe your bums for your.   You are indeed retarded.
    The events in Ukraine over the last two years are actually a good thing for Russia.  It now sees Ukrs for what they are and there
    can be no more talk of brotherly peoples.   You are now fully on your own suckers.   You failed getting your act together over the
    last 25 years in spite of $300 billion in Russian subsidies and the fact that Russia bought your products and it is now more clear
    than ever that you don't have the capacity to be productive.   You are living on the rapidly decaying corpse of "Russified" Ukraine.  
    Soon you will all be swarming hordes of refugees to the EU once the economic implosion is complete.

    Something we can agree on.

    25 years of Ukrainian government/oligarch-rule has not produced anything (other than nationalism and propaganda), they've been living off the Soviet tit, nothing new was built.
    And now Russia can cut ties for good and I hope it does. I once had high hopes for a Russo-Ukrainian united economic space, revival of Soviet-era industries in the Ukraine with Russian assistance, etc... I can now honestly say that I want or need nothing from the Ukraine.
    It's not an opportunity for Russia, it's a blight, a curse, and Russia must continue the course and stop all subsidies and assistance - we've done nothing but wasted dozens of billions of dollars there since the Soviet collapse, all for nothing, while the US came in with some cheap propaganda and smoke and mirrors and achieved its objectives for much less.

    Now the aim should be to make an economic trap out of it for the EU and US, a black hole where their money will fall into and never come out - instead of ours as like for the 25 years previous. Shouldn't be hard; the Ukrainian government seems to be on the course already w/o prompting.
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    Post  Cowboy's daughter Fri Sep 11, 2015 12:48 am

    Ivan Katchanovski
    Facebook.
    7 hrs ·


    Photos, map and links to videos from my APSA poster presentation of the "snipers' massacre" on the Maidan in Ukraine paper.

    http://www.researchgate.net/publication/281626968_Photos_and_Map_Maidan_Snipers_Massacre_APSA_presentation

    Ivan Katchanovski
    18 hrs ·

    I just uploaded an updated, revised, and expanded version of my Maidan snipers' massacre paper that I presented last week at the Annual Meeting of the American Political Science Association in San Francisco. The new version of the study includes analysis of killings of specific Maidan protesters and policemen and direct evidence, such as videos and photos of "snipers" and "spotters." I plan to incorporate this paper into my new book.

    https://www.academia.edu/8776021/The_Snipers_Massacre_on_the_Maidan_in_Ukraine
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    Post  Erk Fri Sep 11, 2015 6:47 am

    flamming_python wrote:

    Something we can agree on.

    25 years of Ukrainian government/oligarch-rule has not produced anything (other than nationalism and propaganda), they've been living off the Soviet tit, nothing new was built.
    And now Russia can cut ties for good and I hope it does. I once had high hopes for a Russo-Ukrainian united economic space, revival of Soviet-era industries in the Ukraine with Russian assistance, etc... I can now honestly say that I want or need nothing from the Ukraine.
    It's not an opportunity for Russia, it's a blight, a curse, and Russia must continue the course and stop all subsidies and assistance - we've done nothing but wasted dozens of billions of dollars there since the Soviet collapse, all for nothing, while the US came in with some cheap propaganda and smoke and mirrors and achieved its objectives for much less.

    Now the aim should be to make an economic trap out of it for the EU and US, a black hole where their money will fall into and never come out - instead of ours as like for the 25 years previous. Shouldn't be hard; the Ukrainian government seems to be on the course already w/o prompting.

    Ukraine has been milked by oligarchs, fix that and it can easily become a better country. You can't grow an economy with oligarchs calling the shots. Of course getting rid of the oligarchs is easier said than done!

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    Post  Guest Fri Sep 11, 2015 8:20 am

    Lol

    http://tvzvezda.ru/news/forces/content/201509110744-yd27.htm
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    Post  flamming_python Fri Sep 11, 2015 11:20 am

    Ivan the Colorado wrote:Lol

    http://tvzvezda.ru/news/forces/content/201509110744-yd27.htm

    This ship is a metaphor for the Ukraine today in general.

    Rusty, old, unfinished, unwanted, obsolete, with nothing done on it since the Soviet-era, and yet a constant drag on resources for its host.
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    Post  flamming_python Fri Sep 11, 2015 11:26 am

    Erk wrote:
    flamming_python wrote:

    Something we can agree on.

    25 years of Ukrainian government/oligarch-rule has not produced anything (other than nationalism and propaganda), they've been living off the Soviet tit, nothing new was built.
    And now Russia can cut ties for good and I hope it does. I once had high hopes for a Russo-Ukrainian united economic space, revival of Soviet-era industries in the Ukraine with Russian assistance, etc... I can now honestly say that I want or need nothing from the Ukraine.
    It's not an opportunity for Russia, it's a blight, a curse, and Russia must continue the course and stop all subsidies and assistance - we've done nothing but wasted dozens of billions of dollars there since the Soviet collapse, all for nothing, while the US came in with some cheap propaganda and smoke and mirrors and achieved its objectives for much less.

    Now the aim should be to make an economic trap out of it for the EU and US, a black hole where their money will fall into and never come out - instead of ours as like for the 25 years previous. Shouldn't be hard; the Ukrainian government seems to be on the course already w/o prompting.

    Ukraine has been milked by oligarchs, fix that and it can easily become a better country. You can't grow an economy with oligarchs calling the shots. Of course getting rid of the oligarchs is easier said than done!


    It's completely useless, the oligarchs can simply use anti-Russian nationalism to solidify their rule without spending a penny, and what goodwill gestures or investments, bond purchases, etc... Russia does at the cost of billions of dollars (and able to actually improve people's lives there), can be completely countered and reversed by the US/EU for 1/10th the price, in funding nationalist organizations and empty promises of a better future if they ditch Russia.
    It works like a treat every time.
    Even if Russia succeeds on coming to terms with a government there, the US/EU can use their grass-roots support to simply overthrow it. Happened twice already.

    This country is far too gullible, naive and Russophobic to bother with, worst of all it's enveloped in a primitive nationalism that causes its people not to take pride (or not) in their country as a result of achievements the country made (which the rulers have managed to get away with not having a single one of for the last 25 years), but to take pride in just being 'Ukrainian', or just in their flag, or just the fact that they speak the Ukrainian language (which isn't even native to most of the Ukraine). This is the worst aspect of all as it allows the elite to just continue pillaging the country and working for foreign interests without a single word of protest - so long as the politicians keep paying lip-service to 'great Ukraine and its heroes'.

    Such a country with such a mentality I'm fairly convinced is ultimately doomed; that's why I call it something of a curse - it sucks up Russian money, efforts and resources but gives nothing back. It's not a prize as some here believe. I say cut all ties and be done with it.
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    Post  JohninMK Fri Sep 11, 2015 11:35 am

    KIEV, September 11. /TASS/. Ukrainian President Petro Poroshenko said on Friday the Minsk agreements on peaceful settlement in Donbas cannot be extended for the next year. The implementation of the Minsk agreements should end in 2015 and cannot be extended," the Ukrainian leader said at the annual meeting of the Yalta European Strategy (YES). "Everyone should fulfill their commitments in 2015," he stressed.

    Under the February 12 Minsk agreements, all the points, namely the constitutional reform in Ukraine taking into consideration the specifics of certain areas of the Donetsk and Lugansk regions, are to be implemented by the year-end. Kiev’s negotiator and former President Leonid Kuchma said on Thursday the representatives of the Contact Group said the Minsk agreements needed to be extended for the next year if they are not implemented by late 2015.

    "I have asked Leonid Kuchma, my representative in the Contact Group, to call off the statement on the possibility to extend the Minsk process for 2016," Poroshenko said.

    The idea on extending the Minsk agreements for 2016, earlier proposed by European Parliament President Martin Schulz, has been backed by the representatives of the self-proclaimed Donetsk and Luhansk People’s Republics.
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    Post  kvs Fri Sep 11, 2015 2:55 pm

    The oligarchy looting Ukraine is like maggots devouring a corpse. The point is that there will nothing left for them
    to loot sooner rather than later. These oligarchs are as idiotic as the Banderatards at street level. They have no
    concept of productive work and constructive behaviour. They are corrupt to the bone and like all ghetto gangsters
    under the delusion that they are entitled to riches deprived by "the man" which in the case of Ukraine is Russia. So
    Ukraine is a delusion based catabolic society. You will note that its economy did not crash back in early 2014 due
    to separation of Crimea and the Kiev regime war on the coal producing region. It really crashed in the 4th quarter
    of 2014 and into this year in rump Ukraine. We are seeing the evapouration of companies that existed thanks to
    access to the Russian market. There is no EU market for them. Whether they realize it or not, the Ukrainian oligarchy
    lived it up thanks to Russia. They now have a rapidly diminishing left over that cannot sustain their ambitions.

    The conflict between the Kiev regime and its paramilitary dogs we have been seeing is due to the realization by
    the regime that they have to moderate their tone. I don't know whether Russia should milk this tension since it would
    require making commitments to Ukraine that are intolerable. Russia needs to send a clear signal that Ukraine is on its
    own and will not get any help. Russia should actually impose Draconian sanctions on Ukraine for its gross violation
    of human rights.
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    Post  KoTeMoRe Fri Sep 11, 2015 5:03 pm

    flamming_python wrote:
    Ivan the Colorado wrote:Lol

    http://tvzvezda.ru/news/forces/content/201509110744-yd27.htm

    This ship is a metaphor for the Ukraine today in general.

    Rusty, old, unfinished, unwanted, obsolete, with nothing done on it since the Soviet-era, and yet a constant drag on resources for its host.

    Yeah no kidding, that's like the worst of Ukraine's reality.
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    Post  PapaDragon Fri Sep 11, 2015 5:06 pm

    Off Topic Off Topic Off Topic

    There be some unusual Poles out there...  Suspect  scratch

    Refugee Influx May Force European Exodus to Siberia

    http://www.sputniknews.com/world/20150911/1026875329/europe-refugees-exodus-siberia.html


    Do we have a tread about Mid-East refugee exodus to EU?
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    Post  Guest Fri Sep 11, 2015 5:15 pm

    flamming_python wrote:
    Ivan the Colorado wrote:Lol

    http://tvzvezda.ru/news/forces/content/201509110744-yd27.htm

    This ship is a metaphor for the Ukraine today in general.

    Rusty, old, unfinished, unwanted, obsolete, with nothing done on it since the Soviet-era, and yet a constant drag on resources for its host.
    Yet there was serious talk that Ukraine would purchase new ships soon. They still think that the Black Sea is still theirs.
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    Post  JohninMK Fri Sep 11, 2015 5:25 pm

    Will Kiev ask for yet a better price? Same as Poland pays seems fair. No doubt it will be cash up front again.

    MOSCOW (Sputnik) — Russia is ready to give Ukraine a gas discount for two quarters, and the price will be comparable to that of gas deliveries to Poland, Russian Energy Minister Alexander Novak said Friday. "We believe we have managed to reach an agreement on a so-called winter package from October 1 to March 31," Novak told reporters following talks with EU energy chief Maros Sefcovic. "As before, our side is ready to provide a gas discount for the fourth quarter [of 2015] and for next year's first quarter… with the aim of creating a price on the same level as for Ukraine's neighboring countries, such as Poland," he added.

    Read more: http://sputniknews.com/europe/20150911/1026884350.html#ixzz3lRaZ0yuA
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    Post  Khepesh Fri Sep 11, 2015 5:44 pm

    Posibility of problems in Odessa tomorrow as pravy sektor and other maidanists did not like the fact that twenty or more Odessa politicians voted against a motion to blame Russia for agression, and are said to be ready to take some form of action. Normal Odessites are warned to keep of the streets tomorrow. Slowly but surely all coming to a boil on Odessa. There was another bomb this morning, in a car and no injuries.
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    Post  PapaDragon Fri Sep 11, 2015 5:45 pm


    Even Carnegie clowns agree:  Twisted Evil

    Time Is Working Against the Government in Kiev

    Finances, political instability, corruption, morale in the military, support for the government… it's impossible to point a single area where things are actually getting better for Kiev

    http://russia-insider.com/en/politics/time-working-against-government-kiev/ri9651

    This article originally appeared at Carnegie Moscow Center

    This week saw the worst violence in the Ukrainian capital since the Maidan protests at the end of 2013. On August 31 radical oppositionists accused the government of treachery for pushing through legislation in the Rada on decentralization aimed specifically at the war-torn Donbas. They threw rocks, smoke flares, and even hand grenade at the police. Two people were killed and more than 130 injured.

    Now observers are asking how much support the opponents of President Poroshenko's decentralization strategy enjoy and whether they are strong enough to undermine his government.

    The president's main argument is that Ukraine has to live up to the Minsk Agreements to avoid a full-blown war with Russia. To that end, he has been a consistent proponent of decentralization–a policy of granting more powers of self-administration and language rights to the eastern strife-torn regions of Donetsk and Luhansk. His plans have the support of Ukraine’s Western allies, prime minister Arseniy Yatsenyuk and the largest faction in the Rada.

    He is certainly powerful enough to get the legislation he wants through parliament. The Rada has already approved his bill granting an amnesty to those who fought in the spring of 2014 and his bill granting special status for the separatist-controlled areas of Donbas. Opposition deputies complaining of arm-twisting and procedural violations during the vote carried out in the worst traditions of the Yanukovych regime.

    But opposition to decentralization in Ukraine now extends beyond the most vocal fringe groups. The country now has a powerful “anti-Minsk” coalition. In the Rada it consists of “Samopomich” (Self-Reliance), “Batkivshchina” (Fatherland), and Oleg Lyashko’s Radical Party.

    “The Minsk Agreement is a tactic the Kremlin uses to buy time,” says former prime minister and head of Batkivshchina. “It’s a time bomb,” agrees Oleg Lyashko.  “The agreements are illegitimate,” claims the military commander Semen Semenchenko of Samopomich.

    Several regional legislatures, such as the one in Ivano-Frankivsk, also oppose the Minsk agreements. As the current government loses its popularity, radicals may gain some ground during the upcoming local elections. While the local elections will not change the balance of forces in the parliament, they may impact the president: his predecessor suffered from the attempts of regional legislatures who were trying to impeach him.

    However, the street radicals pose the most serious threat. Right Sector activists recently burned tires on the streets of Kiev, demanding that the government renounce the Minsk Agreements and resume the offensive in Donbas. No one was hurt on that occasion. But then came the explosion of violence on August 31.

    According to Ukraine's interior minister Arsen Avakov, a volunteer fighter on leave from the front was behind the grenade-throwing incident, which killed a national guardsman. Although the grenade thrower and other protestors were quickly arrested, there can be no guarantee that incidents like this will not be repeated, especially as Ukrainians are divided on this incident.

    The street violence comes against a background of tiredness and disappointment with the authorities across Ukrainian society. Militant patriots resent the fact that the summer offensive did not result in a glorious victory. For the past year they have been trying to convince the public that the Donbas republics could have been eradicated back in August 2014. “It’s still not too late to do it, in a day or in a matter of months,” they say. “But the traitors in Kiev do not give their go-ahead and drag the country into the Minsk trap instead.”

    Just as a year ago, about 30 percent of Ukrainians are in favor of military intervention to liberate the occupied territories. True, the closer you get to the actual front-line, the less militant people become. While 35 percent support the war in Ukraine's western and central regions, only 15 percent and 20 percent hold the same views in the south and east.

    Moreover, six draft campaigns have also depleted the bellicose sentiments in western regions known for strong nationalism. Only 41 percent of eligible draftees were enlisted in the six draft in Ternopil. In Lviv and Ivano-Frankivsk regions, the numbers are 47 percent and 44 percent, respectively. Across the country, only 60 percent of the target number were drafted across the country. The General Staff plans to make up the shortfall in numbers by employing contract soldiers.

    Most Ukrainians (57 percent) still want to see a peaceful resolution of the conflict. But they are also dissatisfied with the lack of tangible results at the negotiating table. Thirty six percent of Ukrainians believe that Kiev is doing too little to solve the Donbas problem and 33 percent think it is doing nothing at all.

    The president gets a disapproval rating of 67 percent of Ukrainians, while 84 percent are unhappy are with the prime minister and the Rada. As their fatigue increases, a growing number of Ukrainians is ready for compromise. Almost half of them agree that Russian can become an official language if it helps to end the war. Thirty three percent are ready to permanently give up on Crimea. The same number is willing to abandon the European integration project, and an even greater number can live without NATO membership.

    Opinion polls also suggest that about 19 percent of the Ukrainian public is prepared to recognize the independence of Donetsk and Lugansk People’s Republics, while 26 percent support their autonomous status inside Ukraine.

    The surveys suggest that time isn’t on the side of the Ukrainian authorities. As long as the Donbas region remains in its current “neither peace, nor war” state, public discontent is bound to increase–from all sides of the political spectrum. With three years until the next presidential and parliamentary elections, the country is already teetering on the brink of political crisis and there is complete lack of confidence in its government.

    To quote article comment:
    Ukraine has become that "class," which rides on the special school bus.   lol1  Razz
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    Post  PapaDragon Fri Sep 11, 2015 5:54 pm


    US, EU Aid Insufficient to Fix Ukraine Economy - Finance Minister

    http://sputniknews.com/europe/20150911/1026886854.html#ixzz3lRhqmSeW

    Ukrainian Finance Minister Natalie Jaresko said that Financial aid from the United States and the European Union is not enough to repair Ukraine's ailing economy.

    KIEV (Sputnik) – Financial aid from the United States and the European Union is not enough to repair Ukraine's ailing economy, Ukrainian Finance Minister Natalie Jaresko said Friday.

    "We do not have enough money to go further. It is enough for stabilization, [but] we need to invest in the economy, we need more support," Jaresko said at the Yalta European Strategy forum in the Ukrainian capital Kiev.

    The economy minister clarified her remarks, adding that "we couldn’t live without" financing from Washington and Brussels.

    Late last month, Ukraine secured a $3.6-billion – or 20 percent – write-down from its $18 billion debt with international creditors. The agreement was reached following 7 months of intense negotiations.

    Washington-based International Monetary Fund has approved a four-year $17.5-billion assistance package to Ukraine, which has seen three disbursements to date.

    Poland and Germany are the latest individual EU member states to approve multimillion-dollar loans to a Ukrainian economy increasingly reliant on foreign assistance.

    Razz
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    Post  auslander Fri Sep 11, 2015 5:56 pm

    Ummm, lemme see here, what can I say that's good about 404. Oh yeah, the weather is still nice and some of the goils are still pretty.

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