The Situation in the Ukraine. #21

Could NATO set up bases in Ukraine without Ukraine being a NATO member?

sepheronx wrote:Then it would all be unnoficial and leaving them up for attack. And if Novorussia gets wind of it, Minsk 2 would be done and fighting would commence. Any dead nato soldier would not spark a response from nato itself as they were not officially supposed to be there and they will simply say "volunteers" like Russia.  While Novorussia will end up expanding and gaining independence.  Nato then have their base in a whatever is remaining of that shitty country.

DNR said today that if 404 joins NATO Minsk is over instantly. Orcland will not be officially in NATO but de facto they will be and in essence are in NATO. The first dead NATO operative will be a martyr and as such will be the excuse for NATO to commence operations in Orcland. You don't understand those suicidal fools, I do.

ultron wrote:Could NATO set up bases in Ukraine without Ukraine being a NATO member?

Yes. They will be 'training' bases to start but bases nonetheless.

auslander wrote:

I stand by my prediction. NATO/US were not successful with Krim and Sevastopol but they will not stop, they want to ring Russia with bases and if needs be they will keep the populace of 404 under control one way or another for the safety of their coming bases. There are already some NATO, read US, advisors down to rota level with certain orc units and they've been extant since before the Debaltsyevo Debacle. The half day stand down during the Debaltsyevo assault was to let them leave, them and some other EU types who should not have been there. They were allowed to leave the cauldron with the clothes on their backs and their automat, absolutely nothing else, hence the brand new radar tracking devices left in place, cased. No big deal on that, rumor has it that Mother already had some but I would bet a few someones got a thumbs down in their next FitRep.

NATO will pull the mission creep gig until they have what they want in 404 and it won't take them long to do it, I would say before Christmas 404 will have a much more considerable presence than they have now and now is not small.

you are correct, altough when reffering to NATO you can just refer to the U.S as NATO is just the "vassal" term for the European nations that follow U.S orders without question. or at least their officers do.

the main goal with Ukraine was achieving control over Sevastopol and the Crimea in general. to cut off Russian Navy access to the black sea/Mediterranean and "grab" a port to put their own NATO ships into dock. however this whole endeavor blew back more into the face of the U.S than they could imagine. not only did the people of Crimea and Russia in general deny that strategic objective but Russia got it instead. also, the fact that eastern ukraine industry and factory's would fall outside the control of the Ukraine Government was not anticipated by NATO at all.

as a side note, it still gives me mild identity crisises reading this stuff. i mean, i did serve 10 years within NATO's combat forces. but on the other hand me and a lot of others like me absolutely disagree with these embedded "NATO" advisors instigating war and commiting warcrimes in the process. outside your story i encountered them myself in Afghanistan, just their arrogance and lack of moral compass just makes me feel dirty and want to just put a bullet into them myself. and with me there are at least three dozen other's i know that would shoot these NATO operatives ourselves.

concerning Ukraine, yes NATO will keep instigating stuff for as long they can. but on the other hand when the Ukraine government collapses NATO will just turn their backs as easily on Kiev as they did on Georgia in 2008 and just blame it all on Russia.

but... im sure Russia's operatives will keep an eye on NATO's activities in Ukraine as well.

still, to this day and in the near future the Ukrainian people have to suffer trough all this dirty games played by NATO.

sepheronx wrote:

auslander wrote:

sepheronx wrote:Then it would all be unnoficial and leaving them up for attack. And if Novorussia gets wind of it, Minsk 2 would be done and fighting would commence. Any dead nato soldier would not spark a response from nato itself as they were not officially supposed to be there and they will simply say "volunteers" like Russia.  While Novorussia will end up expanding and gaining independence.  Nato then have their base in a whatever is remaining of that shitty country.

DNR said today that if 404 joins NATO Minsk is over instantly. Orcland will not be officially in NATO but de facto they will be and in essence are in NATO. The first dead NATO operative will be a martyr and as such will be the excuse for NATO to commence operations in Orcland. You don't understand those suicidal fools, I do.

DNR said if Kiev tries, so if it means actual nato base, then Novorussia throws minsk out. Nothing about official.

Aside from that, US will try, but if dead US soldiers show up, or German, in Ukraine, the shitshow at home will be something in itself. So they will turn their back like airbornwolf said.

There has been not mention by NATO of a base in Ukraine, many NATO members would object. Do you honestly think Novorussia want's to throw Minsk out? I don't see any evidence of that?


Putin has been pushing to stick to Minsk, and we know he has influence.

There's no Ukropia in NATO, no one would even think about Chapter 5ing against "Putler". It's really simple. Ukraine in NATO= Polite Popular Republics up until Zaporizha. Even Donald Trump wouldn't do that kind of bullshit.

Craps. First the U.S. State Department went nuts. Now Kyiv vassals went crazy.

Why I find it's hard to see any sane people inside the puppet goverments of the White House ?

http://112.international/russia/russia-is-involved-in-the-isis-militants-training-klimkin-885.html

Russia earlier have trained soldiers of the army of the former Iraqi leader Saddam Hussein, many of which are now fighting on the side of a terrorist group ISIS, Minister of Foreign Affairs of Ukraine Pavlo Klimkin stated that on air of channel 24.

"A significant number of those who are on the side of ISIS are the former military servicemen of Saddam Hussein`s army. Russia knows well them. The country knows their mentality, it considerably trained them," Klimkin said.

higurashihougi wrote:Craps. First the U.S. State Department went nuts. Now Kyiv vassals went crazy.

Why I find it's hard to see any sane people inside the puppet goverments of the White House ?

http://112.international/russia/russia-is-involved-in-the-isis-militants-training-klimkin-885.html

Russia earlier have trained soldiers of the army of the former Iraqi leader Saddam Hussein, many of which are now fighting on the side of a terrorist group ISIS, Minister of Foreign Affairs of Ukraine Pavlo Klimkin stated that on air of channel 24.

"A significant number of those who are on the side of ISIS are the former military servicemen of Saddam Hussein`s army. Russia knows well them.  The country knows their mentality, it considerably trained them," Klimkin said.

I bet it was the Soviet Union, that trained some Iraqi army, like way before Iraq invaded Kuwait which the USSR strongly objected to, and voted for the invasion of Iraq in the UNSC.

The underlying problem that NATO as an organisation faces is peace. Were peace to break out then it would have real difficulty justifying its existence and we all know that once an organisation has been set up the phrase 'we've done our task, let's disband' never enters their mind, they just find more to do. Hence when peace looked possible with the fall of the USSR then NATO moved itself outside the confines of the North Atlantic.

The current winding up of EU/Russia tensions is all part of their campaign to keep themselves in business and should be seen in that light. What actually happens on the ground and any casualties is pretty irrelevant. Ukraine, like the Baltics, are just useful idiots or vassals in their mind very helpful in keeping the threat of war, any war, going.

Clutching at straws again in Kiev. Default on December 31st, if not before, still looms large.

KIEV (Sputnik) – Russia could resolve the issue of Ukraine’s debt repayment through court, Ukrainian Foreign Minister Pavlo Klimkin said. "I hope that the process of claim consideration, that of Russia, in court, which is yet possible, will first of all last a certain amount of time, and second, the court will listen to the arguments of all parties, first of all our arguments, the way we handled the restructuring process," Klimkin said in a Wednesday interview with the Ukrainian 24 TV news channel.

The Ukrainian foreign minister added that Ukraine has experience with such cases and will be ready in case Russia turns to court to ensure the repayment of $3 billion that Ukraine owes it.

Earlier this month, the Russian Cabinet's press service said that it was Moscow's position that Ukraine must repay the debt it owes to Russia in full and on time, specifying that the deadline for repayment is this coming December.

Read more: http://sputniknews.com/europe/20150924/1027435961.html#ixzz3me71GDvx

Erk wrote:

higurashihougi wrote:Craps. First the U.S. State Department went nuts. Now Kyiv vassals went crazy.

Why I find it's hard to see any sane people inside the puppet goverments of the White House ?

http://112.international/russia/russia-is-involved-in-the-isis-militants-training-klimkin-885.html

Russia earlier have trained soldiers of the army of the former Iraqi leader Saddam Hussein, many of which are now fighting on the side of a terrorist group ISIS, Minister of Foreign Affairs of Ukraine Pavlo Klimkin stated that on air of channel 24.

"A significant number of those who are on the side of ISIS are the former military servicemen of Saddam Hussein`s army. Russia knows well them.  The country knows their mentality, it considerably trained them," Klimkin said.

I bet it was the Soviet Union, that trained some Iraqi army,  like way before Iraq invaded Kuwait which the USSR strongly objected to, and voted for the invasion of Iraq in the UNSC.

Its a bit OT but you are correct but he fails to mention that those soldiers, trained probably 25 years ago, by the Soviet advisers, many now dead or retired, were then trained by the US when they took over Iraq. The fundamental problem was that as a matter of policy the US disbanded the Iraqi Army leaving thousands of Baathists and Sunnis at a loose end. It was they who morphed into the groups that became ISIS.

Still, one has to doubt whether Klumpkin has any idea about this at all. Kiev just spouts the latest US line. But then he was a bit delusional yesterday in that he said this as well......

"I am certain that the visa-free regime will be achieved next year. We should have our final report on December 15 of this year. It will then be considered by the commission, then it will be considered by the European Council and then the process of technical implementation will be launched. It will last several months," Klimkin said in a Wednesday interview with the Ukrainian 24 TV news channel.

Read more: http://sputniknews.com/europe/20150924/1027437072.html#ixzz3meDRgJoE

Anyone else hear or see this happening?

September 23, 2015 Konstantin Dolgov, Facebook Reposted by Maxfux Translated by Kristina Rus

Only a month since the shelling stopped. But Donetsk is bustling with people. Swarms of people and incredible number of cars, including expensive foreign cars that came from nowhere.

These are the returning Kievan Donetsk residents. And the Dnepropetrovsk Donetsk residents. And all kinds of other Donetsk residents. Returned to annoy by the fact of their existence the Donetsk-Donetsk residents and the non-Donetsk-Donetsk residents, like the political emigres.

Why didn't they stay in their European Kiev? Do they regret leaving Donetsk in the spring of last year?

It seems that it is not Donbass that is being shoved back into Ukraine, but Ukraine is trying hard to jump on the bandwagon of the Donbass train, departing for Russia...

http://fortruss.blogspot.co.uk/2015/09/ukraine-is-trying-to-jump-on-donbass.html

Anabolism from MP.NET in Saur-Mogila.

Regular wrote:
Anabolism from MP.NET in Saur-Mogila.

Where on the picture exactly? Eventhough he used to say some crazy stuff on MP.net I have giant respect for him for going there.

Regular wrote:Anabolism from MP.NET in Saur-Mogila.

I thought he was not allowed to join the war.  
IIRC he regretted that he could not do more than donating money (and being an internet warrior).

He's the kid with tactical glasses.

He seems to be amongst the best equipped battalions too. In any case, I wish him well.

sepheronx wrote:
None of that will matter though, cause if Ukraine isnt a nato member, then the nato bases are opened for an attack and nato could not intervene as they werent supposed to be there in the first place. If US does try to pull this though, regardless, then I imagine Russia will recognize Novorussia existence, which would flare up the area as others from regions occupied by Ukraine will probably see this as their opportunity.  Russia isnt showing their hands yet. If I thought up these ideas, I think Russian authorities did as well, plus dozen more ideas too.

Exactly..

People need to think for a moment.. what happen next after X or Y event happens.

Lets see.

1) Ukraine Joins NATO
2) in very short time provoke RUssia into a war to invade them
3) Ukraine ask NATO to intervene.
4)American says.. err.. no we can't.. We will not fight Russia for you..
5)Other NATO members then complain and put into questions NATO organization ,of being
   just not credible ,and that if Americans will not defend any NATO member when attacked
   then that there is no point in joining NATO and this will promote disbanding the organization
   

This is why Ukraine cannot be a NATO member.. Americans will not fight Russia for them.
is not worth of it.. Defending your land , or defending a major NATO ally ,that been attacked
for no reason is a different story . But even this will only provoke a limited conventional confrontation.

IF americans wanted to fight Russia directly ,they will have done it long time ago.. since 2008
with the Georgian war...when Russia army was weaker. and less prepared and they have the excuse to defend Georgia.  And this is the whole point of Syria and Ukraine wars.. That is to fight Russia by proxy and NOT directly.

What could go wrong if Americans goes and send tanks and planes and warships to Ukraine
to fight on the side of Ukraine.. in a war that is very negatively seen the image of Ukraine?
and Russian defenses wipes them?

This is for example US donald duck..that goes and launch a cruise missile to bomb eastern Ukraine? and Russian airforce sink it..

This will create major unrest in US cities.. demanding Obama to resign or be impeached for
causing the lives of americans soldiers.

Because US actions in Ukraine (but also Syria) are not supported by the majority of Americans..
What could go wrong if hundreds or thousands of americans lives lost consequence of Obama policies?

US gov and its senate and congress risk a major unrest nation wide and a major civil war to start..and a coup against Obama could start.. if thousands american soldiers lives wasted in an illegal war.. For much less they paralized New York bridge..with the Black life matters.. issue.
For losing many soldiers in Ukraine it will cost the President seat and potentially a major civil war..  

There are things more dangerous than a Topol or trident missile ..and a civil war is one of them.  

Because a single nuclear attack can only destroy a city.. but a civil war can disband an entire
nation and break the unity of its people. While a nuked city can only united people behind the President. Which is why i think ,The white House next 9/11 false flag could be a nuclear attack on its own territory.. done by them . as they did in 9/11 inside job.. this is to get Americans behind the Government in power. They will not be able to blame this on Syria.. and probably not well on IRAN.. but they will be able somehow to claim it was ISIS who did it.. and dumb Americans will believe it.. since in 2001 they blamed talibans in afgan caves and it worked.  

  A civil war that start on a country where already its people is very displeased with the government  can potentially provoke the nation to disband in many parts.  This is exactly what happened to the Soviet Union. It disbanded and without americans firing a single shot.. Today it is Ukraine that is very highly likely to disband if another civil war start. but also United States is on the risk of a major civil war.. is leading a war in Ukraine and syria ,that most of the public opinion dont support.  The way to avoid a civil war ..is by brainwashing its society.. this is why
the control of the American media ,tv,newspapers,magazines ,blogs ,is so important for the white house. To keep americans in a zombie land believing in lies ,so they don't rebel against them.

US Gov control of its media.. how they brainwash its society.
Welcome to America..a society that its government control like Robots ALL its
mainstream media..



by brainwashing its society ,is how they keep their empire justified and alive. But
this things will vanish if US economy collapse or US armed forced suffer heavy casualties in
a war the president have no authorization to participate neither support from its citizens.
So all US can do for Ukraine is give them an association ,training and small to med weapons.
But not direct /open help.. they cant do that. Very risky to blow back at them if something goes wrong.. Moral of the story Public opinion is really important in world conflicts. This is why Russia
goes to United Nations and try to seek alliances and properly educate Russia society what is really happening in Ukraine and middle east. through its media..  This create trust between The Government and its people ,that the government is doing something really important for nation security and what will make the Government immune to any civil war or coup.

All you need to do to destroy America is to have a bunch of Islamic nutheads detonate a nuclear bomb over NY - the EMP impulse will in a matter of seconds turn 99% of electronics in the city into junk. If similar actions are done in 3-4 other cities (LA, SF, maybe Chicago and Boston), the mighty America turns into a third world country (almost)

But there will never be a civil war in USA.. at least not in the upcoming decades.

Regular wrote:
Anabolism from MP.NET in Saur-Mogila.

Well if that is him, I wish him all best and I hope he and his friends will be safe.
There was one more mp member who claimed that he is going to Donbas, but I cant remember his name now. He was banned immediately afther he posted that.
Edit: Baggings or smth like that was his nick iirc

This afternoon at the tank biathlon at Torez ukrop terrorists killed a girl, born 2006 and burnt her brother, born 2008, by planting an explosive device. Reports vary, but it seems the device had been put on a Strela-10 or MT-LB in the static display for visitors to clamber over. Tank biathlon now suspended. http://ria.ru/world/20150924/1279563311.html#ixzz3mfGXvQdH

Edit: To be clear, this happened a few hours back and since the explosion it has been determined to be a terrorist act, not an accident. Basurin has stated it was a terrorist act and MGB have issued appeals for visitors who were at Torez today to hand over video and photos they had taken.

Khepesh wrote:This afternoon at the tank biathlon at Torez ukrop terrorists killed a girl, born 2006 and burnt her brother, born 2008, by planting an explosive device. Reports vary, but it seems the device had been put on a Strela-10 or MT-LB in the static display for visitors to clamber over. Tank biathlon now suspended. http://ria.ru/world/20150924/1279563311.html#ixzz3mfGXvQdH

The orcs will never stop, they will continue to kill our children, our women, our pensioners. The day will come, of that I have no doubts, when NAF will attack and take back all of Novorossiya and push the orcs back in to the swamps they come from. Damn their eyes, damn their souls, a pox on the lot of them.

Regular wrote:
Anabolism from MP.NET in Saur-Mogila.

If you are in contact with him, please tell him to stay safe and Godspeed. On another note, his unit seems very well equipped indeed. Looks as well equipped as the Russian Army was 10 or so years ago. Quite a few sharpshooters in his unit as well.